Author Xaphirus Posted May 29, 2011 Author Posted May 29, 2011 Why the question op? You are thinking of becoming a tranny aren't you? A transsexual does not choose to be a transsexual. I already am. My reasoning for asking such a question is so that I can gather information about a MTF transsexual's chances of being in a relationship, and share them with my online transsexual community. It is to benefit both me as well as other MTF transsexuals that are worried about what they have to lose once they transition. Loved ones, friends, jobs, money, social acceptance, and odds of being in a relationship all go down the drain when we make the decision to be ourselves.
Feelsgoodman Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) So if I am a male attracted to this transsexual woman (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le7mfrFxvi1qe4m1ko1_500.jpg) I must not be straight? She has the voice of a female, the curves of a female, the breasts, butt, and vagina of a female. She dresses like a female and is simply beautiful. She has never undergone puberty as a male, and therefore grew up looking exactly like any other female would. You claim that since she has a past as a male, and has the Y chromosome, any male who is attracted to her is not straight. That, my friend, is absolutely ridiculous. Heterosexuality is, by definition, a sexual attraction to the opposite sex. It's about sexual intercourse; it has nothing to do with chromosomes or the past. Who are you to judge whether or not carhill is straight? Are you suggesting this person had gender reassignment surgery as an infant? That would only be allowed under very rare circumstances, such as where a child is born as a hermaphrodite (in other words, possessing both male and female characteristics). So if the person in that picture is indeed a transsexual (of which you have offered no proof), it was likely hermaphrodite to female, not male to female, which would explain why it looks a lot more female than a MTF transsexual. Also, the picture is clearly digitally enhanced, so even if the person pictured is indeed a transsexual, it is impossible to tell what it looks like in real life. I dare you to post a picture of a publicly known MTF transsexual that looks indistinguishable from a real woman. Edited May 29, 2011 by Feelsgoodman
utterer of lies Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Technically, if you want to be scientific about it, they are not female. However, while having a vagina and being physically transformed into a women (face, skin, hair, etc.), it is safe to say that they are no longer male. They even have female hormones and therefore think much like a biological woman. I wouldn't judge a transsexual woman as male simply because of the letter Y they were assigned at birth. That letter means nothing in the life of a transsexual. The are neither male nor female, but transsexual. A category of its own, a kind of chimera of both genders, as technology is not yet available to perform such a change completely. Naturally occurring, it's usually called a genetic defect. Also: is that you, MrLonelyOne?
Author Xaphirus Posted May 29, 2011 Author Posted May 29, 2011 Are you suggesting this person had gender reassignment surgery as an infant? That would only be allowed under very rare circumstances, such as where a child is born as a hermaphrodite (in other words, possessing both male and female characteristics). So if the person in that picture is indeed a transsexual (of which you have offered no proof), it was likely hermaphrodite to female, not male to female, which would explain why it looks a lot more female than a MTF transsexual. Also, the picture is clearly digitally enhanced, so even if the person pictured is indeed a transsexual, it is impossible to tell what it looks like in real life. I dare you to post a picture of a publicly known MTF transsexual that looks indistinguishable from a real woman. That picture is of Kim Petras, and she is a Male-to-Female transsexual. The youngest in the world, to be exact. But that doesn't make her an exception to your absurd ideas. She began hormone replacement therapy at the age of 12, and had a sex change when she turned 16 years old. You want unedited pictures? Go to her youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/kimmilinlein Also, you said you wanted proof as well. Just search her on Google, she's famous for being a transsexual.
Feelsgoodman Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 That picture is of Kim Petras, and she is a Male-to-Female transsexual. The youngest in the world, to be exact. But that doesn't make her an exception to your absurd ideas. She began hormone replacement therapy at the age of 12, and had a sex change when she turned 16 years old. You want unedited pictures? Go to her youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/kimmilinlein Also, you said you wanted proof as well. Just search her on Google, she's famous for being a transsexual. You can clearly tell she was a man form these pics: http://images.wikia.com/lyricwiki/images/6/60/Kim_Petras_-_Boomerang.jpg http://images.wikia.com/lyricwiki/images/b/bd/Kim_Petras_-_One_Piece_Of_Tape.jpg The facial structure gives it away, and I suspect this would be even more noticeable in real life. Also, the fact this person's parents put it through a gender reassignment surgery at the age of 12 (which is pretty disturbing in and of itself, but a separate issue) likely explains why it looks more female than most transsexuals. The typical MTF transsexual has much more obvious male characteristics than this person.
Kamille Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Just because I don't share your sexual ambiguity does not make me a "reactionary". What's with the outdated 20th century shaming tactics? Shaming tactics? Puhlease. You learned that on SoSuave? How to use rethoric to pretend you have the upper hand? You're the one who actively judged the sexuality of another poster all based- on your own opinion about what constitutes proper gender and proper sexual orientation. Straight is an absolute term that leaves no room for interpretation. Straight people are only attracted to the opposite sex. If you do not fall into that inflexible category, than you are not a straight person (not that there is anything wrong with that). A male to female person is a person who will define themselves as a woman. Else we need a fourth sexual orientation: attracted to transgendered people. Fine by me. I personally don't care what other people do in the bedroom and if they abide to strict definitions of sexual orientation. I know what I like and I respect their choices and their right to define themselves as they choose. Perhaps you need a dictionary : reactionary [rɪˈækʃənərɪ -ʃənrɪ], reactionist adj (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) of, relating to, or characterized by reaction, esp against radical political or social change Explain how I am resistant to social change again?
Author Xaphirus Posted May 29, 2011 Author Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) You can clearly tell she was a man form these pics: http://images.wikia.com/lyricwiki/images/6/60/Kim_Petras_-_Boomerang.jpg http://images.wikia.com/lyricwiki/images/b/bd/Kim_Petras_-_One_Piece_Of_Tape.jpg The facial structure gives it away, and I suspect this would be even more noticeable in real life. Also, the fact this person's parents put it through a gender reassignment surgery at the age of 12 (which is pretty disturbing in and of itself, but a separate issue) likely explains why it looks more female than most transsexuals. The typical MTF transsexual has much more obvious male characteristics than this person. It is coincidence that she seems to have masculine characteristics in those photos. You can find those same characteristics in many biological women around the world. The only reason you are pointing out her slightest flaws is because you have no other excuse. It is impossible for her to have testerone-inflicted masculine characteristics because she started using hormone blockers at the age of 12, before puberty even started. She was NEVER a man. She was a 12-year-old boy. Yeah, it was hormone replacement therapy that she started at the age of 12, as I CLEARLY stated, not gender reassignment surgery. She had that at the age of 16 and practically begged to have it done. You blame her parents for her decision to be herself? You further proved to everyone that you have no idea what you are talking about. Just because she happens to be more feminine than other transsexuals doesn't make this any different. As you have told us before, if you are a male and you are attracted to this woman, you obviously cannot and never will be heterosexual. Clearly, according to you, the past of the person you are attracted to can make you bisexual. Edited May 29, 2011 by Xaphirus
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Male, straight, not knowingly. Nothing personal, it just makes me feel uncomfortable. I also agree with Kamille on this one. If you are attracted to a trans-gendered person who has identified themselves as a female and presented themselves as one I don't see how you can bi-sexual, otherwise you'd be attracted to people who present themselves as male as well. I don't know, I'm not a genderologist, but that's my take on it.
Feelsgoodman Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 A male to female person is a person who will define themselves as a woman. I don't care how you define yourself. You can define yourself as an orange but that wouldn't make you one. The word orange has a very clear definition, as does the word heterosexual. Since you like quoting from the dictionary so much, I suggest you look it up. And I don't know what you mean by "so suave", but there is little about about your argumentative style that can be described in those terms. I don't see why I need to pretend that I have the upper hand
Rinnix Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 I have a friend who is currently going from female to male. Female, straight, and no. I wouldn't date a male to female, as I'm straight and prefer the male gender. However, if they were female to male, and had undergone all of the surgeries, and were now completely male, I could consider it.
utterer of lies Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 It is coincidence that she seems to have masculine characteristics in those photos. No. You further proved to everyone that you have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you dismiss his opinion? It's not wrong just because he doesn't agree with you. Your own opinion is not fact, it's just your opinion.
sanskrit Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 OP asked a simple question in a matter of fact way, why such a row about this?
Author Xaphirus Posted May 29, 2011 Author Posted May 29, 2011 No. Why do you dismiss his opinion? It's not wrong just because he doesn't agree with you. Your own opinion is not fact, it's just your opinion. If what I said was fact, there would be no reason for me to debate with him/her, because facts have already been proven and I could simply link him/her to a scientific test that has proven such. I know that it is my opinion, and he/she knows that it is his/her opinion as well. I'm simply standing up for the people who define themselves as straight and for the transsexuals that struggle to be accepted as real individuals.
utterer of lies Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 If what I said was fact, there would be no reason for me to debate with him/her, because facts have already been proven and I could simply link him/her to a scientific test that has proven such. I know that it is my opinion, and he/she knows that it is his/her opinion as well. Then why would you attack him like this? You further proved to everyone that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Author Xaphirus Posted May 29, 2011 Author Posted May 29, 2011 Then why would you attack him like this? I am not attacking, I am stating my harsh opinion. Your thought of me attacking is your own opinion.
utterer of lies Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 I am not attacking, I am stating my harsh opinion. Your thought of me attacking is your own opinion. Haha. That's amazing. Cognitive dissonance doesn't seem to bother you at all.
Author Xaphirus Posted May 29, 2011 Author Posted May 29, 2011 Haha. That's amazing. Cognitive dissonance doesn't seem to bother you at all. Well, if it can make things anymore clear for you (I believe you may have misunderstood my intentions, or something like that), I wasn't saying he had no idea what he was talking about because of his opinion. I had said that because he completely misread my earlier post, and constructed his newer post around information that I had never provided. His apparent lack of knowledge regarding the lifestyle of a transsexual (i.e. hormone replacement therapy and gender reassignment surgery) motivated me to say what I have said. My apologies if you or anyone else felt insult or any other negative emotion.
Feelsgoodman Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 It is impossible for her to have testerone-inflicted masculine characteristics because she started using hormone blockers at the age of 12, before puberty even started. Mr. Lonely...I mean Xaphirus, Many sexual characteristics develop before puberty. Otherwise, you would not be able to tell the difference between pre-adolescent boys and girls. This person was a male. It still has obvious male facial features despite extensive surgery and hormone therapy. If anything, it is living proof that a complete male to female transformation is impossible with the current state of technology. Transsexuals are neither male or female. They have both male and female characteristics. Thus, anyone who is attracted to a transsexual has to be capable of attraction to both genders. There's a word for that. It's called 'bi-sexual'.
Author Xaphirus Posted May 29, 2011 Author Posted May 29, 2011 Mr. Lonely...I mean Xaphirus, Many sexual characteristics develop before puberty. Otherwise, you would not be able to tell the difference between pre-adolescent boys and girls. This person was a male. It still has obvious male facial features despite extensive surgery and hormone therapy. If anything, it is living proof that a complete male to female transformation is impossible with the current state of technology. Transsexuals are neither male or female. They have both male and female characteristics. Thus, anyone who is attracted to a transsexual has to be capable of attraction to both genders. There's a word for that. It's called 'bi-sexual'. I agree with the first half of your response, but I still do not think that being attracted to someone such as Kim Petras constitutes bisexuality. Being bisexual is the attraction to both males and females. You are perfectly capable of being attracted to a transsexual woman without being attracted to men simultaneously. Even slightly. Oh, and who is Mr. Lonely and why am I being compared to him?
Feelsgoodman Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 I agree with the first half of your response, but I still do not think that being attracted to someone such as Kim Petras constitutes bisexuality. Being bisexual is the attraction to both males and females. You are perfectly capable of being attracted to a transsexual woman without being attracted to men simultaneously. Even slightly. Oh, and who is Mr. Lonely and why am I being compared to him? It's good that you are able to admit that were wrong and agree that this person's residual male characteristics are not coincidental. We can then all agree that this person is not a female, either conceptually or in purely practical terms. As far as someone being attracted to MTF transsexuals but not men, I suppose that's possible. I would imagine that being a pretty rare condition, as naturally occurring transsexuals (a.k.a. hermaphrodites) are also somewhat rare. Perhaps there is a separate category for such people, I don;t know. But they certainly would not be classified as 'straight'.
Author Xaphirus Posted May 29, 2011 Author Posted May 29, 2011 It's good that you are able to admit that were wrong and agree that this person's residual male characteristics are not coincidental. We can then all agree that this person is not a female, either conceptually or in purely practical terms. As far as someone being attracted to MTF transsexuals but not men, I suppose that's possible. I would imagine that being a pretty rare condition, as naturally occurring transsexuals (a.k.a. hermaphrodites) are also somewhat rare. Perhaps there is a separate category for such people, I don;t know. But they certainly would not be classified as 'straight'. I'm not agreeing that I and other MTF transsexuals are not female. Scientifically we are not female, and technically we are neither male nor female, but as a person we can still be female. Being female is both a role and a scientific term. Also, feel free to keep your opinion about them not being straight, I find that your opinion is unchangeable. Therefore I'm just not gonna bother anymore.
Feelsgoodman Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 I'm not agreeing that I and other MTF transsexuals are not female. Scientifically we are not female, and technically we are neither male nor female, but as a person we can still be female. Being female is both a role and a scientific term. No, being a female is a purely scientific term. As I said in response to another poster, you can identify as an orange, but that doesn't make you one. I have no problem with you thinking of yourself as a woman. It's your life, you are free to think whatever you want. However - and I think this goes directly to the reason you started this thread - you can't expect the rest of the world to partake in your make belief fantasy world. Whether you like it or not, most people do not see a MTF transsexual as a woman. That's just a fact of life.
Author Xaphirus Posted May 29, 2011 Author Posted May 29, 2011 No, being a female is a purely scientific term. As I said in response to another poster, you can identify as an orange, but that doesn't make you one. "I have no problem with you thinking of yourself as a woman. It's your life, you are free to think whatever you want. However - and I think this goes directly to the reason you started this thread - you can't expect the rest of the world to partake in your make belief fantasy world. Whether you like it or not, most people do not see a MTF transsexual as a woman. That's just a fact of life. "Gender has several definitions. It usually refers to a set of characteristics that are considered to distinguish between male and female, reflect one's biological sex, or reflect one's gender identity. Gender identity is the gender(s), or lack thereof, a person self-identifies as; it is not necessarily based on biological sex, either real or perceived, and it is distinct from sexual orientation It is one's internal, personal sense of being a man or a woman (or a boy or girl)." - Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. Gender is in fact, a role. Read a psychology text book.
mogul Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 I agree with the first half of your response, but I still do not think that being attracted to someone such as Kim Petras constitutes bisexuality. Being bisexual is the attraction to both males and females. You are perfectly capable of being attracted to a transsexual woman without being attracted to men simultaneously. Even slightly. Oh, and who is Mr. Lonely and why am I being compared to him? You can tell she was a he prior.
carhill Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Who are you to judge whether or not carhill is straight? Sorry I'm late to this. LS judges carhill all the time. No problem. I've had gay men hit on me. I felt *very* uncomfortable. I was married for ten years to a woman and have enough experience with women to know I'm oriented sexually and emotionally to women. The person I referred to very much appeared and acted like a woman. I would only learn later from her, long after being rejected as a dating partner, that she had started life as a he. At the time I asked her out, I had no knowledge. I've seen our LS'er who is very openly transgendered in pictures as a woman and found him to be very attractive as a woman. I'm unclear as to all the nuances, since I gender identify male and am heterosexual, but merely relate my observation of appearances. I don't know him, personally. I do know, in person, up close, looking in the eyes, that 'lady' many years ago stirred my loins; she had the goods and the demeanor to do that. Good on her.
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