What happened?

[Crystal713]

Well let me start with a little background. I was with my now "ex" for 6 years. We have 3 children ages 4, 2, and 4 months.

 

A little over a year ago my ex went through a depression. He didnt want to do anything but sit on the couch when he came home from work. He was not mean or abusive in any way just very neglectful. I tried giving him space, talking to him, spending time with him, everything. I did this for about 8 months. I would get upset because he wanted nothing to do with me or the kids and finally I had enough. I told him he needed to get help and he did not. Finally around November of '10 I told him I wanted to take some time apart. He left on March 3 '11. We discussed what taking time apart was supposed to entail, no other women/men but give each other space and time. He was all for it and actually seemed excited about it.

 

Well about a week later he started ignoring me. Not answering my calls, messages, not seeing the children. Nothing. When I finally did get ahold of him he said he was suicidal. I tried to help, I called and talked to him, told him he could come over, whatever he needed. I was genuinley worried about him.

 

He would say he was going to come see the kids, but then not show up. One time I called him and he told me he was getting drunk instead. He just stopped caring about everything. This went on for about 6 weeks. He saw the kids 2 times.

 

Then he finally starts coming around to see the kids but now has this hate for me like no other. I dont even know who he is anymore. He puts me down, degrades me. Tells me hes better than me, smarter than me, I am an awful person, he hopes I get in a wreck, he is happier without me etc. This is NOT like him, hes never said such awful things before! He comes to my house to see the kids and gets mad if I try to leave when he is here. He refuses to see them anywhere BUT my house. I know he has been talking to other women and I am just assuming that this situation went from temporary to permenant. He tells me he does not care if I see other people and just doesnt really seem to want to work on things anymore. Which would be okay but why such absolute HATE for me?

 

I am just very confused. Everyone says he is acting like this because he still wants me but if that is the case then why is he being so cruel? I WANTED to work things out, I made that very clear. But then I found out he was talking to other women and that was hurtful. I love him but I cannot put up with this. I want our family to work but I wont stand for being treated like this and being told he doesnt want me. I deserve better than this but it hurts like crazy. He has never treated me so badly.

 

What happened?

 

ETA- He also has been very curious about what I am up to. He always asks where I am going or if I am seeing someone or makes jealous remarks. He gets VERY angry if I leave the house during his visits, its almost like he wants to be around me when he is here for visits. But yet tells me he doesnt want me? I am lost!

Edited May 27, 2011 by Crystal713

[Downtown]

Crystal, welcome to LoveShack. I'm so sorry to hear you are in such a terrible situation. You are describing a bizarre situation is which you and your "Ex" were having a relationship for 5 wonderful years until, a year ago, he suddenly fell into a state of despair and depression, from which he has never recovered. And you are asking us to figure out what happened.

 

Unless the man was in a car accident and had a serious head injury, what you are describing makes no sense whatsoever. Normal emotionally healthy men simply do not behave that way. They don't have a wonderful relationship for 5 years and then stand by, refusing to get medical help for an entire year, while watching the marriage and 3 kids fall over a cliff. Your Ex therefore almost certainly has a serious personality disorder (PD) if there is nothing to explain brain damage or a sudden change in his body chemistry.

 

Yet, for anyone on this forum to help you with an emotionally disturbed man, you have to tell us what red flags you were seeing in the 5 years preceding his break down. And there would be red flags in his history prior to that time. I therefore suggest that, if you want help from us, you provide far more detail about this man and your relationship.

 

I suggest you begin by explaining why you are referring to a man you've had 3 children with as your "Ex." If the relationship was great, why were you never married? It also would be helpful to know what dysfunctional behavior he exhibited in the first 5 years of your marriage. Does he consume much alcohol or other drugs? What PDs and depression problems do you see in his family members? Was his family highly dysfunctional? Approximately how old are the two of you? What life event triggered the onset of his depression?

Edited May 28, 2011 by Downtown

[Crystal713]

Crystal, welcome to LoveShack. I'm so sorry to hear you are in such a terrible situation. You are describing a bizarre situation is which you and your "Ex" were having a relationship for 5 wonderful years until, a year ago, he suddenly fell into a state of despair and depression, from which he has never recovered. And you are asking us to figure out what happened.

 

Unless the man was in a car accident and had a serious head injury, what you are describing makes no sense whatsoever. Normal emotionally healthy men simply do not behave that way. They don't have a wonderful relationship for 5 years and then stand by, refusing to get medical help for an entire year, while watching the marriage and 3 kids fall over a cliff. Your Ex therefore almost certainly has a serious personality disorder (PD) if there is nothing to explain brain damage or a sudden change in his body chemistry.

 

Yet, for anyone on this forum to help you with an emotionally disturbed man, you have to tell us what red flags you were seeing in the 5 years preceding his break down. And there would be red flags in his history prior to that time. I therefore suggest that, if you want help from us, you provide far more detail about this man and your relationship.

 

I suggest you begin by explaining why you are referring to a man you've had 3 children with as your "Ex." If the relationship was great, why were you never married? It also would be helpful to know what dysfunctional behavior he exhibited in the first 5 years of your marriage. Does he consume much alcohol or other drugs? What PDs and depression problems do you see in his family members? Was his family highly dysfunctional? Approximately how old are the two of you? What life event triggered the onset of his depression?

 

Okay I will try to explain in more detail.

 

The whole 6 year relationship was far from wonderful and perfect. We had our share of arguments. But typically we were pretty boring people who sat at home most of the time taking care of our children. Him working, me being a stay at home mom. We wouldnt argue about anything really bad just usual petty stuff like cleaning up after yourself or whatever. Hes never been on drugs, never been an alcoholic, and he is 28 years old. I am 24. No reason why we never married. We planned on having a small quick marriage in April of last year but then my mother passed away the month before and it kind of got pushed under the rug. He has had issues with deppression but not to the point where he wanted nothing to do with me or the kids. More like times where he was just stressed and burnt out. He has a very very demanding job and he was going through alot at work I know. He didnt really want to talk about it much but I know some of the guys at work were making him feel really bad.

 

As far as his family goes. Yes they are highly disfunctional. Alot of problems in that family. His mother abandoned him his father treated him awful. He has alot of issues with his past. Like I said he has always had issues with depression just not to the point where it caused huge problems between us.

 

But what he is acting like now is a completely different person. He has said things to me that I would never have dreamed he could say to me. He also makes comments that I ruined our family, this is all my fault etc. He also claims I am trying to control him, because I have asked him to help financially with the children. He never takes care of the children so I just expect that out of him and that makes him very bitter. I could understand him being hateful and bitter toward me if I ended the relationship completely but this was not supposed to be the end. This was supposed to be a time of growing, working things out, and rediscovering our feelings.

 

The only other thing I can think of that may have caused him to fall into such a deep depression a year ago would be the pregnancy of our daughter. He did not want more children, we did not plan for more, but it happened. He seemed happy about the baby but hes very good at hiding his feelings. Hes a very quiet person who holds alot in. And having 3 children in 5 years made it near impossible for me to do the things for him that he wanted like cook dinner every night, or go out on date nights etc. There were times when I just could not do those things and now he throws those things back in my face. But at the time did not seem to bother him THAT much.

 

I just wonder if he just held in all this anger and bitterness over the fact that I couldnt give him enough attention and I just did not know it. He never talks to me about his feelings so its very possible that the bitterness just built up and now it is all coming out now that we are away from each other.

 

I just dont understand why there is such a sudden change in him. I would NEVER have thought he would go weeks without seeing his kids, or say that he wishes I would get in an car accident, or that hes better off without me. I dont know why or where this is coming from and it really hurts.

 

Also wanted to add that during the pregnancy of our daughter I was ver sick and it was all I could do just to take care of the other children. I had severe pain from my fifth month on and was down and out alot. Couldnt cook, needed more help with the kids. Then when our daughter was born she screamed day and night and I was also preoccupied with her constantly. I suppose there could have been some resentment there too, its hard to tell. Since he would never talk to me about anything.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Crystal713

[Downtown]

Thanks for your response, Crystal, that was very helpful. I will take my best shot. Please note, however, that I am not a psychologist. Rather, I'm simply a man who spent 15 years taking my BPDer exW and bipolar foster son to a small army of psychologists.

The whole 6 year relationship was far from wonderful and perfect.... He has had issues with depression but not to the point where he wanted nothing to do with me or the kids.

If your Ex had recurring problems with depression, it likely was due to body chemistry or a personality disorder (PD). Typically, when depression is caused by body chemistry changes the sufferer hates the feeling and will seek medical treatment, which is highly successful in over 80% of the cases. That is, if a man can stop feeling gawd awful by simply swallowing a pill, he will run to get the pill. Given your Ex's refusal to do so, the body-chemistry problem seems unlikely to be the cause -- although it remains a possibility worth checking out. More likely, the cause is one of the ten PDs, which are notorious for being invisible to the sufferer and -- by making him fearful and undermining his self esteem -- causing him to be highly resistant to seeking corrective therapy.

 

Another factor suggesting a PD is the history of his parents both being highly dysfunctional (i.e., an abandoning M and an abusive F). Granted, most kids growing up in an abusive situation do not develop strong PD traits. But such abuse and abandonment GREATLY raised your Ex's risk of doing so. Moreover, because PDs apparently are caused not only by abuse but also by genetics, the fact that BOTH parents were so dysfunctional strongly indicates that at least one of them may have passed along a gene making him predisposed to developing a PD.

 

Although currently there are 10 PDs, there are way too many of them, as is evident in the fact that most folks having one PD also have one or two of the others. The APA thus is planning to collapse these 10 "disorders" (which, actually, are just patterns of symptoms) into 5 categories when the new diagnostic manual is released in 2013. You have not yet provided sufficient information for me to know which of the five categories best describes your Ex's behavioral symptoms.

 

If I had to guess, however, I would say there is a good chance that -- like my exW -- your Ex has strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). BPDers (i.e., those with strong traits) have two great fears: abandonment and engulfment (from intimacy). In a recent study, 70% of the BPDers reported having been abandoned or abused in early childhood, as your Ex was. If your Ex does suffer from BPD traits, he likely developed them before the age of 5 (when his M abandoned him) and the traits did not start showing until his early teens, when he was starting to establish LTRs with people outside the family. With high functioning BPDers, such traits are usually seen only by loved ones, not by strangers or business associates (who are unable to trigger the underlying fears).

 

Instead of asking you two dozen questions, I will simply give you a link to my discussion of "quiet borderlines" in Katt's thread so you can see if it rings a bell. My three posts in that thread begin at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3361912#post3361912. The vast majority of BPDers are intelligent and high functioning like your Ex, who successfully handles a very demanding job. Unlike your Ex, however, they instantly become verbally abusive when some minor comment by a loved one triggers their anger (carried from childhood). Yet, there is a subset of BPDers (perhaps 20%) who do not "act out" when angered. Instead, they "act in," turning their anger inward.

 

On the outside, such a BPDer can be seen to withdraw in icy silence, during which times he will punish you with passive-aggressive snide remarks. If your Ex actually does have strong BPD traits, he would exhibit these "quiet borderline" traits. Because the "loud" BPDers get all the attention online (as they do offline), it is difficult to find information about the quiet BPDers. I therefore note that, in my second post at the link above, I provide links to two excellent articles about them written by professionals.

 

My hope is that those discussions will NOT ring a bell and you can forget this post. I would not wish this awful illness on my worst enemy. It is rare for a BPDer (quiet or otherwise) to have sufficient self awareness and ego strength to be willing to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference. In contrast, your Ex's depression will be far easier to treat if he is only suffering from a change in body chemistry or some life-altering event.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Downtown

[Crystal713]

Thank you for the information! There are some things you said in that link that you gave me that really rang true to him.

 

One of the hallmarks of BPDer behavior is the endless cycle of push-away and pull-back. There are several reasons for this behavior. One is that the BPDer has two strong fears: engulfment and abandonment. Because he has a fragile, unstable sense of who he is, he hates to be alone. He wants a strong personality around him who will help "center him" and give him focus.

Because a BPDer has such a strong fear of abandonment and usually is unable to trust you, he typically will make every effort to isolate you from friends and family -- who otherwise could interfere with his controlling ways by saying things like "That's the most pathetic excuse I've ever heard."

Because a BPDer accepts his intense feelings as self-evident "facts," his attempts to justify his bizarre actions to you will often be fanciful and convoluted -- devoid of rational thought. Any friends or family hearing such absurd rationalizations would be throwing them in your face for months.

As you draw back to give him breathing space, however, you will eventually trigger his fear of abandonment within weeks, if not days. Then he will start pulling you back by being extra sweet and giving you great make up sex. Significantly, this unending flipping from adoration to devaluation is very confusing and addictive, because you are always thinking you can restore the ecstasy if you can only figure out what you are doing wrong.

 

 

He has always NEEDED someone, absolutely hates to be alone. Always needed someone strong and motherly to "take care" of him and keep him centered. Everyone would always say I "kept him in line". Kept him being a productive person which is very true. Since hes been gone hes been completely irresponsible. Drinking, missing work, getting in a wreck, hanging out with people he never would have dreamed of hanging out with when we were together. He never did any of those things when we were living together. He has never trusted me even though I gave him no reason not to. He never wanted me to go anywhere or hang out with m y friends or family, wanted me all to himself. Very controlling and hes also been making comments that he stalks my apartment watching to see if anyone comes in here. Hes even went as far as trying to date my neighbors around me so he can try and get closer to me, or just get to me. He hates it when I ignore him. I have recently had to stop him from coming to my house to see the children and instead have chosen a way he can see the kids without being around me and he is VERY angry about it. He gives me the silent treatement for days but when he realizes I am not going to respond to it, he always contacts me in some way or tries to get my attention by doing something drastic like sending my friends messages about how he "thinks they are hot and wants to be with them" etc. (Which might I add is extremely immature and makes me feel like I am in high school again)

 

So that just may be right. And if so that is really sad.

[Crystal713]

Thank you for the information! There are some things you said in that link that you gave me that really rang true to him.

 

One of the hallmarks of BPDer behavior is the endless cycle of push-away and pull-back. There are several reasons for this behavior. One is that the BPDer has two strong fears: engulfment and abandonment. Because he has a fragile, unstable sense of who he is, he hates to be alone. He wants a strong personality around him who will help "center him" and give him focus.

Because a BPDer has such a strong fear of abandonment and usually is unable to trust you, he typically will make every effort to isolate you from friends and family -- who otherwise could interfere with his controlling ways by saying things like "That's the most pathetic excuse I've ever heard."

Because a BPDer accepts his intense feelings as self-evident "facts," his attempts to justify his bizarre actions to you will often be fanciful and

convoluted -- devoid of rational thought. Any friends or family hearing such absurd rationalizations would be throwing them in your face for months.

As you draw back to give him breathing space, however, you will eventually trigger his fear of abandonment within weeks, if not days. Then he will start pulling you back by being extra sweet and giving you great make up sex. Significantly, this unending flipping from adoration to devaluation is very confusing and addictive, because you are always thinking you can restore the ecstasy if you can only figure out what you are doing wrong.

 

 

He has always NEEDED someone, absolutely hates to be alone. Always needed someone strong and motherly to "take care" of him and keep him centered. Everyone would always say I "kept him in line". Kept him being a productive person which is very true. Since hes been gone hes been completely irresponsible. Drinking, missing work, getting in a wreck, hanging out with people he never would have dreamed of hanging out with when we were together. He never did any of those things when we were living together. He has never trusted me even though I gave him no reason not to. He never wanted me to go anywhere or hang out with m y friends or family, wanted me all to himself. Very controlling and hes also been making comments that he stalks my apartment watching to see if anyone comes in here. Hes even went as far as trying to date my neighbors around me so he can try and get closer to me, or just get to me. He hates it when I ignore him. I have recently had to stop him from coming to my house to see the children and instead have chosen a way he can see the kids without being around me and he is VERY angry about it. He gives me the silent treatement for days but when he realizes I am not going to respond to it, he always contacts me in some way or tries to get my attention by doing something drastic like sending my friends messages about how he "thinks they are hot and wants to be with them" etc. (Which might I add is extremely immature and makes me feel like I am in high school again)

 

So that sounds very much like him, and that is sad.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Crystal713