StoneCold Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 This kind of subjective-reasoning is the root of the problem. And while we can't, shouldn't try or be allowed to take freedom of choice away, giving a blessing to whatever behavior or decision a person makes is insanity. And, you don't mean it StoneCold. Not really. Because it would be different if someone's decision or behavior infringed on something that was important to you. Therein lies my point about selfishness. s. Give me strength... 1) Ok you let other people dictate what your happiness is to be. I however pass on this 2) Nobody is looking for your blessing 3) Please for the love a god do yourself a favour and stop trying to tell me anout how i think andd feel.... You couldnt be more wrong with regards to you last statement.
Steadfast Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Please follow the Golden Rule whenever you think about doing what is best for YOU. It really cannot be said better than that. People with issues almost always regard sound advice as an attempt at control, but the reality (as I've often stated) is, control isn't possible. Happiness in life is self control, and loving respect. That's what brings peace of mind and extends the same to others. A great example is the trust we have in the pilot flying the airplane we're riding in, the doctor that's about to perform surgery on us, or the teacher we turn our kids over to. What, or how would you feel if one of these told you they'll do what they want, when they want, and always what's best for them first? Why aren't they enraged by our demands of fairness? Are we controlling or forcing our morals on them if we expect/demand excellence? Many people, for whatever reason would rather dismiss the possible effect their actions have on others. If you're selfish or self-seeking, then you just don't care. That's the affair dynamic. I'll do what I want, when I want and you deal with it. Your problem. The world is a tough place and you just ran into me. The reality is, our actions can and will cause great damage if we have an uncaring, selfish attitude. We decide this alone. At the same time, those who live by the sword also die by it. There is always a price to pay.
donnamaybe Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 It really cannot be said better than that. People with issues almost always regard sound advice as an attempt at control, but the reality (as I've often stated) is, control isn't possible. Happiness in life is self control, and loving respect. That's what brings peace of mind and extends the same to others. A great example is the trust we have in the pilot flying the airplane we're riding in, the doctor that's about to perform surgery on us, or the teacher we turn our kids over to. What, or how would you feel if one of these told you they'll do what they want, when they want, and always what's best for them first? Why aren't they enraged by our demands of fairness? Are we controlling or forcing our morals on them if we expect/demand excellence? Many people, for whatever reason would rather dismiss the possible effect their actions have on others. If you're selfish or self-seeking, then you just don't care. That's the affair dynamic. I'll do what I want, when I want and you deal with it. Your problem. The world is a tough place and you just ran into me. The reality is, our actions can and will cause great damage if we have an uncaring, selfish attitude. We decide this alone. At the same time, those who live by the sword also die by it. There is always a price to pay. Beautifully stated! Thank you!!!
StoneCold Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) Imagine you start sleeping with the wife of your neighbor because you have been celibate for a long time. You do this because is a good thing for you to have sex. If you fail to realize the husband of this woman will be hurt by your actions then you lack empathy. When d-day comes you will have a role in the chaos at the home of the betrayed man. So there are times when one should consider others before looking for our own interest. . OK but I beleive I have said before that I weigh everything (known to me) before I act.....what do I want/need?, whats at stake?, is there collateral damage? if there is...whats the probablilty? how much? how significant is it? can it be mitigated? Do I care to mitigate it? and am I ok with this? I may be ok with it or I may not....it depends I do always do whats best for me and sometimes that means doing whats best for others....and sometimes not....which I am fine with. As I have said time and time on this board...it depends which is why more often than not I am never quick to say "thats wrong" or "thats right". In the situation of infidelity as it pertains to me and my situation taking all factors and probabilities into account.... I'm ok with it. Maybe I wouldnt be in another situation with a different set of circumstances....but thats not the situation at hand right now. Get it? Please follow the Golden Rule whenever you think about doing what is best for YOU. I actually do beleive it or not Edited June 1, 2011 by StoneCold
StoneCold Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) It really cannot be said better than that. People with issues almost always regard sound advice as an attempt at control, but the reality (as I've often stated) is, control isn't possible. Happiness in life is self control, and loving respect. That's what brings peace of mind and extends the same to others.. Now I find this quite self serving. People would be so arrogant as to beleive that their advice is "sound" as it pertains to someone they dont even know about a situation they really dont understand (as they are not a part of it). See this is where people of your ilk completely lose me....and this is likely why we may never understand eachother; which is completely fine with me. Feel free to offer advice...but dont assume it to be anything as it may simply be wrong/bad or incomplete as it pertains to the individual. Many people, for whatever reason would rather dismiss the possible effect their actions have on others. . I dont dismiss it... I make peace with it as it pertains to the dynamics of the situation at hand. There is always a price to pay. Agreed...I make peace with this too Edited June 1, 2011 by StoneCold
nyrias Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Sounds like a sociopath. No empathy, no ability to feel guilt, no remorse, rationalization/justification, grandiose view. Look it up. All you need for a diagnosis is three traits and you certainly have more than three. I am not talking about you; I don't know you. I am simply reacting to what you write. Don't feel bad the world is full with folks that think in this manner. Is such a person happier than someone who is full of guilt and have to fight urges not to step out of some moral bound everyday?
nyrias Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 That is one of the oldest forms of rationalization and justification in the books,. The "Everybody does it" excuse. The Everybody does it excuse does not make it right. I am reminded how cheaters often think everyone else is cheating so it must be OK. I think it is better to look and see if your right to have fun causes harm and pain to someone else. If it does then you should not do it. and if you do you are not honest with yourself. The question is WHY humans will be susceptible to such a way of thinking. May be because we are social animals and hard wired to "justify" (or feel good) about behavior that everyone else is doing. Remember that pre-marital sex is a huge no-no and considered a sin? That attitude has completely changed, partly because everyone does it .. and not hiding it anymore. This "cheating will cause pain & suffering" argument obviously falls on deaf ears for a significant part of the population? Why? Because a part of the population care very little about "pain & suffering" of others?
nyrias Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Many people, for whatever reason would rather dismiss the possible effect their actions have on others. If you're selfish or self-seeking, then you just don't care. That's the affair dynamic. I'll do what I want, when I want and you deal with it. Your problem. The world is a tough place and you just ran into me. The reality is, our actions can and will cause great damage if we have an uncaring, selfish attitude. We decide this alone. At the same time, those who live by the sword also die by it. There is always a price to pay. That is hard surprising. Many dismiss the possible effect of their actions have on THEMSELVES too. Example: alcoholism, excessive gambling, drug use .... So "other people" would be even LOWER on the priority list. At the same time, this is not one or zero. There are DEGREES of selfishness. There is a different between a full blown PA with elaborate scheme to deceive from a one-time no-sex out of bound action (say one kiss) with a full confession right after.
StoneCold Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 There is no such thing as right or wrong in a vacuum. Morality is always relative to a specific situation.. This is what I've been saying....So then whats your "argument" with me? I'm kind of lost here Resisting urges to do wrong only works for a short time. Sooner or later rationalization and justification takes over. Sometimes Pierre.....people just dont care
Steadfast Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) Now I find this quite self serving. People would be so arrogant as to beleive that their advice is "sound" as it pertains to someone they dont even know about a situation they really dont understand (as they are not a part of it). See this is where people of your ilk completely lose me....and this is likely why we may never understand eachother; which is completely fine with me. An odd statement for someone who detests the uninformed response, but I give you credit for turning the argument back around. You cheated on your wife StoneCold, justified it, and have now taken a defensive position for cheaters everywhere. You have an agenda, fortified by a clever argument. But like any lie, there are holes in your position. For example, if everyone's affair is different, if everyone's circumstance is unique, then this board, ones like it, and every councilor on earth is clueless to help and wasting their time. They have no base of knowledge. The truth is, while humans are unique, the patterns of human behavior are not. Sorry to lay it out all black and white, but I'm sure you'll find some gray in there somewhere. Get to know me well enough, and it'll be easy to spot my failings. Fortunately (or unfortunately, as the case my be) that has little to do with the individual gains one earns by taking the (rather generic) initiative to keep promises, be honest, act honorably and refrain from selfishness. Feel free to offer adviceI have your permission then? That's a relief. I'll be really naughty now and say I detect some control issues from you. Part of the justification process? Or a lead in to the entitlement one must certainly feel before stepping out on their spouse? Certainly, you know that better than I. Having sex with the spouse of someone else is not right or wrong. however, if you have to do this behind the back of the betrayed spouse then it is wrong. If the husband of a woman wants her to have sex with other men and he gives his blessing then there is nothing wrong. Hogwash. That might work for a bad porn script, but it doesn't fly in real life. The biggest opponents to the 'lifestyle' are former swingers who claim the practice not only destroys marriages, but severely damages long term sexual health. Jog on down to the swingers club pierre, then report back- Edited June 2, 2011 by Steadfast
pureinheart Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Sounds like a sociopath. No empathy, no ability to feel guilt, no remorse, rationalization/justification, grandiose view. Look it up. All you need for a diagnosis is three traits and you certainly have more than three. I am not talking about you; I don't know you. I am simply reacting to what you write. Don't feel bad the world is full with folks that think in this manner. This is an interesting response as it is almost exactly what CNN had to say about people who post on the internet trashing people who have been in A's.
bentnotbroken Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 This is an interesting response as it is almost exactly what CNN had to say about people who post on the internet trashing people who have been in A's. And we all know that reports on all news organizations are backed up with scientific proof instead of conjecture and wishes.
StoneCold Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 An odd statement for someone who detests the uninformed response, but I give you credit for turning the argument back around. You cheated on your wife StoneCold, justified it, and have now taken a defensive position for cheaters everywhere. You have an agenda, fortified by a clever argument. But like any lie, there are holes in your position. For example, if everyone's affair is different, if everyone's circumstance is unique, then this board, ones like it, and every councilor on earth is clueless to help and wasting their time. They have no base of knowledge. The truth is, while humans are unique, the patterns of human behavior are not. Sorry to lay it out all black and white, but I'm sure you'll find some gray in there somewhere. No holes are lies here 1) Show where I justified anything. What I did was give an explanation of what transpired, how I felt and what I chose to do. two different things because nowhere did I say my actions were just. I did however, say in plain english that I simply don't care. Its simply a statement of feelins that explains how I arrived at where I am. 2) How can I take a efensive position for "cheaters everywhere" when I clearly said every situation is different????? 3) You're right boards are largely useless save for adressing the urge to want to....and theres nothing wrong wth that. But dont go to a board if you are truly in search of help. As for therapists...your argument is flawed because with therapists you spend large amounts of time talking and filling them in on all kinds of things and feelings. Notice, when you go to a therapist whos doing all the talking? not them...but people here arent theapists are they? and of the few that are I highly doubt they would advise treating someone on a public chat board 4) There are many patterns of human behaviour which are dictated by a myriad of things...people, circumstances.... Nice try though Get to know me well enough, and it'll be easy to spot my failings. Fortunately (or unfortunately, as the case my be) that has little to do with the individual gains one earns by taking the (rather generic) initiative to keep promises, be honest, act honorably and refrain from selfishness.- ahh... little to do with it?.... perhaps.....but it does have something to do with it, doesnt it? I have your permission then? That's a relief. I'll be really naughty now and say I detect some control issues from you. Ok thanks for that... I detect dellusion on your part. Hooray for freedom of expession
StoneCold Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 And we all know that reports on all news organizations are backed up with scientific proof instead of conjecture and wishes. Yeah, not much different from the conclusions people arrive at in a public internet chat board
Steadfast Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 You're an amusing study in human behavior Stone...claiming 'not to care' while writing post after post explaining why. And you say I'm delusional? You're right boards are largely useless save for adressing the urge to want to....and theres nothing wrong wth that. But dont go to a board if you are truly in search of help. Now you're twisting words. I never said that. In fact, I've read lots of good advice here at LS and have gained some really solid insight as to why people act as they do. At various times, posting has caused me to realize different aspects of my own struggle and gain enlightenment. Yes, there is bad mixed in but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to sort it. Finally, your snobbish, high brow attitude suggests you're either incapable or unwilling to learn, admit, or face the obvious. Subjectivism has a new poster boy. By virtue of a computer and internet connection, you have the same opportunity as all to express thoughts and ideas. IMO they are highly flawed and largely useless...if the intent is to help, council or advise.
donnamaybe Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 your snobbish, high brow attitude suggests you're either incapable or unwilling to learn, admit, or face the obvious. I had previously suggested that this was, perhaps, why there have been difficulties in his R which then gives him, in his mind, justification to cheat.
StoneCold Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) You're an amusing study in human behavior Stone...claiming 'not to care' while writing post after post explaining why. And you say I'm delusional? . Thats because you keep going back to this "justification" tip and I have no idea because if you read what I said you would see its a non issue. You dont have to agree but you would at least drop that angle....So I figure perhaps you missed it thus I re explain... But perhaps you just choose not to acknowledge it in which case I'll stop because its clearly pointless with you Finally, your snobbish, high brow attitude suggests you're either incapable or unwilling to learn, admit, or face the obvious. riiight its obvious because its your mandate right? its right because its the views of the great and wonderful STEADFAST and anybody who happens to see things different is "off"... ...and I'm the one thats high on myself? LMAO give me a break....lol you're killing me IMO they are highly flawed . According to some....but opinions vary and largely useless...if the intent is to help, council or advise. Perhaps... I guess the only person to decide how useful it is is the recipient....this applies to you oh great one as well... I know I've been in quite a few discussions where I have been applauded for my input. In this thread... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t280437/ Someone asked for opinions...I provided...and I was thanked. Now thats all nice and all but really I just came here to chat Are you done now Steadfast? Because I don't you but I dont want to be a party to hijacking this thread with banter anymore Edited June 2, 2011 by StoneCold
StoneCold Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Stone Cold: Others have implied you have the characteristics of a "socio-path" based on your views on relationships. I think this is fundamentally incorrect (therefore unfair to you) for a very simple reason--a "sociopath" doesn't really care what anyone else thinks and would not spend any where near the time and effort you have spent in trying to get your viewpoint across. Therefore I think you need to self-inquire about what it is exactly that you are trying to prove, and who you are really trying to prove it to. In a way you remind me quite a lot like "shadowofman", you may want to look at his recent threads because to me they also reflect a sense of him supposedly "not caring" yet spending an inordinate amount of time trying to persuade others [and therefore, himself???] that he does "not care." ~sigh~ I'm officially taking myself out of this thread.....its not a discussion...its insanity
Steadfast Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Only truth convicts. Lies cannot...not completely. They're unsustainable. It isn't my truth, anymore than it's my sun or my moon. It is there, as fact. Some acknowledge it, others choose to deny or claim relativity. One's right of opinion exists, even if it's difficult to support. The truth always comes out. No one promised the journey would be easy-
StoneCold Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 One's right of opinion exists, even if it's difficult to support. The truth always comes out. No one promised the journey would be easy- I know I said I would take myself out of this thread because it was becoming insanity.....but The above quote I do agree with....the entire truth does always come out eventually.
nyrias Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Only truth convicts. Lies cannot...not completely. They're unsustainable. It isn't my truth, anymore than it's my sun or my moon. It is there, as fact. Some acknowledge it, others choose to deny or claim relativity. One's right of opinion exists, even if it's difficult to support. The truth always comes out. No one promised the journey would be easy- Really? No one brings their lies to their graves?
OldOnTheInside Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Really? No one brings their lies to their graves? Some people do...some people don't. One thing I would expect, from the more intelligent liars at least, is that when somebody lies, they at least accept the possibility that the lie will come out and explode violently in their face. And accept the consequences of their lie when that happens. I compare affairs (or lies in general) to being like a jenga tower in many ways. When you bring dishonesty into the equation, you introduce an incomprehensibly large number of new factors. The longer the lie sits, the higher the chance that one little factor "slips". One wrong slip, and the lie collapses. I think that is what Kriss, Steadfast, and SC were trying to say...maybe.
Steadfast Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Really? No one brings their lies to their graves? Sure they do. Does that make it any less of a lie? Besides, although we all die as individuals, life continues. A great example of this is when General Eisenhower insisted the press photograph and/or film the German extermination camps. When asked why he said; "If we don't, someone will someday deny any of this happened."
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Scarlett77 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Why do you bother? The majority of people here are Morons, they don't want to hear anything to do with common sense, logic, or anything outside their own rigid parameters. ( mind you, there are some amazing people here, whiteflower, Owoman, nyrias Jennie-Jennie) What the moral majority here don't seem to realize, is to suffer is to learn true compassion. I havnt posted my full story, as I was shot down straight away. I have been the BS beyond what most of you can imagine, am I bitter? No. His life is his life, you DO NOT own people by loving them. The thing I find really funny here, is all these people talking about NPD, and in the same breath, claiming that their view is the only view??? Pleeease, look at yourselves. This is way of topic,I know, but this forum is just a bunch of ( mostly) ignorant, stupid, if he / she loves me, I own her idiots. So that's my rant.
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