The affair dynamic

[TMCM]

I don't think the majority of people who get involved with married people are looking to get anything out of it.

 

This is nonsense and it totally flies in the face of reality.

 

I never intended to have a R with a MM but it happened

 

If you never intended to have an affair then you must have been threatened with physical violence and drugged to make you fall in love with MM.

[Kriss]

If you didn't intend for it to happen then it was accidental.

 

If it was accidental then there was nothing special about it.

 

It was just random.

 

Nothing special at all.

[OldOnTheInside]

Take control of your emotions, instead of letting your emotions control you.

 

I think the above has a lot to do with affairs in some cases. Just something to think about.

[Summer Breeze]

I bet his wife did though.

 

See THAT's the 'affair dynamic'. Unmitigated selfishness. Not one word in this post about her, or the actions/reasons of her cheating, lying, betraying husband. How can any relationship be 'wonderful' when it's based on lies?

 

So, we have our answer. It's all about me. Me, me, me.

 

Loving, production and happy lives are not lived this way. A life with no honor is an empty life.

 

Why should I talk about her? She had nothing to do with my R with him. We had multiple ddays and I never balked at answering any of her questions. She saw every email and had full access to me. He told her he would never give me up and she stayed. That's a choice she made. It wasn't all about me it was all about us. If he hadn't wanted to have the R with me he wouldn't have. I walked away every dday and wished him well. He came back.

 

My R with him was wonderful. If there are issues in theirs that's down to them. He chose to cheat and she's chosen to take him back. They have circumstances that will always keep them together and again that's their choice.

 

My life wasn't remotely lived around lies. His was but again that was his choice.

 

As far as the honor thing you just believe what you will. I look in the mirror every day of my life and love the person looking back. I did all the while I was in the A. My exH cheated on me and I in no way consider him a dishonorable person. I don't remotely consider his OW / current W as dishonorable especially. He cheated on me she didn't.

[Summer Breeze]

This is nonsense and it totally flies in the face of reality.

 

Why? Do you think that the majority of OW OM see a M person and zone in and focus on the house or the kids or the money specifically? No. Some I'm sure do but they're not the vast majority. Most AP fall in love and aren't looking for anything.

 

 

If you never intended to have an affair then you must have been threatened with physical violence and drugged to make you fall in love with MM. Nope I met a wonderful man who I had an amazing connection with. He was honest and open and everything grew. I wasn't even remotely looking to have an A. If I'd have been looking for an A I certainly wouldn't have waited til I was almost 50!

 

 

Answers in bold

[StoneCold]

Everyone else has listed all of the reasons already. All except 1. Sometimes you fall in love with someone who isn't in the situation you want them to be in. You fall in love and you look at the situation and you assess where you are and where it's going. You say am I happy right now? You continually reassess and ask. When the time comes that you're not happy you need to jump. I did this with xMM. I loved him and we had a wonderful R. One day it was harder to be with him than without and I left. Would I change what I did not on your life. I never intended to have an R with a MM but it happened and I drew some wonderful things from it. When I was done with it I left but it didn't mean I stopped loving him or regretted a second of our time together.

 

 

I acutally did address that....but you were comprehensive

[StoneCold]

Why should I talk about her? She had nothing to do with my R with him. We had multiple ddays and I never balked at answering any of her questions. She saw every email and had full access to me. He told her he would never give me up and she stayed. That's a choice she made. It wasn't all about me it was all about us. If he hadn't wanted to have the R with me he wouldn't have. I walked away every dday and wished him well. He came back.

 

My R with him was wonderful. If there are issues in theirs that's down to them. He chose to cheat and she's chosen to take him back. They have circumstances that will always keep them together and again that's their choice.

 

My life wasn't remotely lived around lies. His was but again that was his choice.

 

As far as the honor thing you just believe what you will. I look in the mirror every day of my life and love the person looking back. I did all the while I was in the A. My exH cheated on me and I in no way consider him a dishonorable person. I don't remotely consider his OW / current W as dishonorable especially. He cheated on me she didn't.

 

I like this...especially the bolded..

 

Thats what it gets down to...for the good and the bad if you are happy with yourself then I would say its a good thing.

 

"Honor" is a misused word that fairy tales are built around. People are deluded by it...they use the word and say "I'm honorable" yet they almost never truly are. But hey...what ever floats their boat

[StoneCold]

Sounds a lot like a sociopath.

 

.... ok....feel better now?

[nyrias]

The whole thing just fascinates me. I read and read and read about it just trying to understand why. What makes people enter into an affair.

 

I can actually understand the cheating spouses logic. They think they are never going to get caught, they are looking for a little extra fun on the side and an escape from day to day family life of kids, household chores, bills to pay etc.

 

I think often man it would be a nice escape to just "play" single sometimes and go back to the younger days of no responsibility but I know I just am not cut out for that kind of escape.

 

What fascinates me though is what does the "other" person get out of it?

What would ever make them want the affair lifestyle? There are so many people to fall in love with. Wouldn't you protect yourself from the married ones? I guess I don't believe that love just happens.

 

I'm hoping one day to understand what people see in someone who goes home to a family every night but honestly I just don't think I will ever get it. Maybe I should stop trying to understand and just say it makes no sense.

 

Isn't the answer obvious? The "other" person is in the same situation. He/she wants a little escape from his/her own life. That is why there are cheating websites to put these people together.

 

Now, i realize not all cases are like that. There are probably those who got duped into becoming a A partner. No one says the WS is going to represent himself truthfully in front of the 3rd person.

[OldOnTheInside]

Sounds a lot like a sociopath.

Perhaps in some cases. It is a very self-serving way to look at life afterall.

 

There is a thin line between being healthily confident, and being an egotistical jack*ss that can do no wrong. I've interacted with far too many people that are the latter in my time.

Edited May 31, 2011 by OldOnTheInside

[donnamaybe]

There is a thin line between being healthily confident, and being an egotistical jack*ss that can do no wrong. I've interacted with far too many people that are the latter in my time.

It's much easier to come across those people when they think NOTHING is ever wrong. That people should be able to do whatever the hell they want regardless of the effect on others.

[StoneCold]

Perhaps in some cases. It is a very self-serving way to look at life afterall.

.

 

Are you implying that there isnt a selfserving bone in your body? or that you are anybody else hasnt made a decision in their life to the known detriment of another (either directly or indirectly?)

 

That people should be able to do whatever the hell they want regardless of the effect on others.

 

Well you do have that choice....and sometimes I excercise it....and I have yet to meet somebody that doesnt to some degree. I have met alot of people that talk alot of bullsh*t though.

[OldOnTheInside]

Are you implying that there isnt a selfserving bone in your body? or that you are anybody else hasnt made a decision in their life to the known detriment of another (either directly or indirectly?)

 

When did I say that?

 

Doesn't change the fact that it is a potentially self-serving way to look at yourself.

[StoneCold]

When did I say that?.

 

Never said you did.... I was simply asking you a question for clarification purposes.

 

Doesn't change the fact that it is a potentially self-serving way to look at yourself.

 

I dont dispute that it is old....and I'm OK with that...but why isnt everyone else? We all live self serving lives to varying degrees may as well be honest with yourself and accept what it is.

 

But instead many run around delluded pointing fingers saying "your a sociopath because you are self serving"....says the kettle to the pot

Edited May 31, 2011 by StoneCold

[OldOnTheInside]

Never said you did.... I was simply asking you a question for clarification purposes.

 

 

 

I dont dispute that it is old....and I'm OK with that...but why isnt everyone else? We all live self serving lives to varying degrees may as well be honest with yourself and accept what it is.

 

But instead many run around delluded pointing fingers saying "your a sociopath because you are self serving"....says the kettle to the pot

 

I don't consider myself to be Prince Purity when it comes to selfishness if that's what you're asking. What does that clarify for you?

 

As for your second point...

 

There is a thin line between being healthily confident, and being an egotistical jack*ss that can do no wrong.

IMO the fact that you used the words "varying degrees" is important. Like I said, it is healthy to be content and confident with yourself to a certain degree. I'm sure you can agree with that.

 

But when you (not you specifically SC) become the "egotistical jack*ss that can do no wrong" you are, in essence, a liability to everyone that surrounds you. As an example, one of my old co-workers fit this trope to a tee. When he effed up multiple times (entirely due to his own incompetence), everyone working under him ended up covered in his sh*t while he smelt like roses. He may not have been a sociopath but he was still a selfish pr*ck that made no attempts to be less of a selfish pr*ck for anyone. Understandably, most people don't like a selfish pr*ck that shoves a dagger to their backs.

 

As for the stigma surrounding sociopathy...look at the above paragraph. Again, few people enjoy interacting with a potential liability.

 

I have met alot of people that talk alot of bullsh*t though.

What did you mean by this?

[StoneCold]

I don't consider myself to be Prince Purity when it comes to selfishness if that's what you're asking. What does that clarify for you?

 

That you dont have your head up your arse and you may be driving at a point different from what I suspected....

 

 

 

IMO the fact that you used the words "varying degrees" is important. Like I said, it is healthy to be content and confident with yourself to a certain degree. I'm sure you can agree with that.

 

But what degree is that? who sets the parameters? its largely subjective and thats where many people's aguments fall apart

 

What did you mean by this?

 

it goes back to my finger pointing point

[OldOnTheInside]

That you dont have your head up your arse and you may be driving at a point different from what I suspected....

I'm sure that most of the other posters here that you might consider to be "white knights" will still say that they have their selfish moments if confronted....

 

But what degree is that? who sets the parameters? its largely subjective and thats where many people's aguments fall apart

Men and women who dedicate their entire lives to offer greater understanding of how the human mind functions decide on the degrees of sociopathy. They may or may not be correct but that is how society works. We build up on what we already know and have, whether "right or wrong".

 

The majority plays a large role too. Whether you personally agree or disagree with the popular opinion is irrelevant. But the majority still decides. As with my example, the majority of workers thought that the boss was a selfish pr*ck. He did not believe himself to be a selfish pr*ck. So would he qualify as a selfish pr*ck? Pretty much everbody I worked with thought so, which is the only thing that mattered at the end of the day...

 

What's your interest in sociopathy and self-serving behaviour anyway?

[StoneCold]

I'm sure that most of the other posters here that you might consider to be "white knights" will still say that they have their selfish moments if confronted....?

 

Right.. if confronted...properly...in the right situation (preferrably behind closed doors perhaps? hmm); but until then..... either that or they'll say "oh but its different..."

 

Men and women who dedicate their entire lives to offer greater understanding of how the human mind functions decide on the degrees of sociopathy. They may or may not be correct but that is how society works. We build up on what we already know and have, whether "right or wrong". ....

 

so would you agree that this is all very grey?

 

The majority plays a large role too. Whether you personally agree or disagree with the popular opinion is irrelevant. But the majority still decides. As with my example, the majority of workers thought that the boss was a selfish pr*ck. He did not believe himself to be a selfish pr*ck. So would he qualify as a selfish pr*ck? Pretty much everbody I worked with thought so, which is the only thing that mattered at the end of the day...?

 

Majorities can be wrong too..as far as the individual and their own situation is concerned and I think people realize this when they decide to do some of the things they do. Hence the age old terms "different strokes for different folks"

 

What's your interest in sociopathy and self-serving behaviour anyway?

 

what do you mean?

[StoneCold]

Don't feel bad the world is full with folks that think in this manner.

 

 

LOL I dont feel bad....I'm honest with myself..... its a liberating feeling.

 

...and you're right....many many folks arent much different (dare I go out on a limb and profess that the majority of folks arent much different given various situations and circumstances )...they just dont admit it and live in denial....its mildly amusing but ultimately sad

Edited June 1, 2011 by StoneCold

[OldOnTheInside]

so would you agree that this is all very grey?

I don't really think about the morality behind most of my (and other peoples) actions mostly because I believe that it devalues the actual significance of the actions themselves, and their consequences. I mean, you're simplifying a very complex issue with a lot of players who could potentially get involved, by calling it "bad, good, justifiable, or understandable".

 

But to play along, IMO the affair in its simplest form is relatively black and white. You are either in an affair, not in one, or thinking about getting into one to varying degrees. Not really a very grey area, an individual is responsible for their own actions afterall. But the environment surrounding the affair may or may not be grey (in your case, because your wife doesn't put out, you stepped out...but then again, maybe there is a logical reason as to why she withholds sex from you, I dunno). Still, I can't think of many reasons to ask a crying wife whose husband has left her for another woman, "how did you play a part in him leaving?"

 

So I guess my answer to you would be this, I don't think that affairs are black, white, or grey. I think that affairs are...affairs. And everything that they potentially imply, whether it be heartbreak or happiness.

 

Majorities can be wrong too..as far as the individual and their own situation is concerned and I think people realize this when they decide to do some of the things they do. Hence the age old terms "different strokes for different folks"

As I said before, whether a majority is "right" or "wrong" is irrelevant in the long run. A majority is just that: a majority. Sometimes the majority is "right" for a reason, sometimes they are just ignorant. Who can really judge? I know I can't.

 

what do you mean?

What I mean is this...

 

I dont dispute that it is old....and I'm OK with that...but why isnt everyone else? We all live self serving lives to varying degrees may as well be honest with yourself and accept what it is.

 

But instead many run around delluded pointing fingers saying "your a sociopath because you are self serving"....says the kettle to the pot

Why do you think this? And what makes you think like this?

[StoneCold]

I don't really think about the morality behind most of my (and other peoples) actions mostly because I believe that it devalues the actual significance of the actions themselves, and their consequences. I mean, you're simplifying a very complex issue with a lot of players who could potentially get involved, by calling it "bad, good, justifiable, or understandable".

 

ok...

 

But to play along, IMO the affair in its simplest form is relatively black and white. You are either in an affair, not in one, or thinking about getting into one to varying degrees. Not really a very grey area, an individual is responsible for their own actions afterall.

 

OK but I'm not disputing "is this an affair or not"

 

But the environment surrounding the affair may or may not be grey .

 

Thats what I'm disputing that nobody seems to get around here

 

 

(in your case, because your wife doesn't put out, you stepped out...but then again, maybe there is a logical reason as to why she withholds sex from you, I dunno).

 

Perhaps...I'm actually most positive there is... but shes not telling me, is not cooperative and I'm done with circular discussions...so I couldnt be bothered. Stonecold is done....Stonecold has to look out for Stonecold

 

Still, I can't think of many reasons to ask a crying wife whose husband has left her for another woman, "how did you play a part in him leaving?"

 

Thats simply because you dont want to "go there" because you'll be entering into a verbal lambasting from someone who likely doesnt want to hear rational logic at that point in time. Let the professional therapist ask her that in a round about way...thats what they went to school for.

 

So I guess my answer to you would be this, I don't think that affairs are black, white, or grey. I think that affairs are...affairs. And everything that they potentially imply, whether it be heartbreak or happiness.

 

which would mean that they are grey?

 

 

As I said before, whether a majority is "right" or "wrong" is irrelevant in the long run. A majority is just that: a majority. Sometimes the majority is "right" for a reason, sometimes they are just ignorant. Who can really judge? I know I can't..

 

Agreed.... which links back to what I said in response

 

Old..you know I actually do like chatting with you.....but with all due respect....where the hell are you going with all this because your opinion seems quite similar to mine in most respects. Are we simply discussing a topic we share similar views on (which is cool) ? or are you part of the pile on crew (which I'm accustomed to)?

 

Why do you think this? And what makes you think like this?

 

I watch people, I pay attention to people, I listen when they think nobody heard.....that and a lot of soul searching on my part

Edited June 1, 2011 by StoneCold

[OldOnTheInside]

Thats what I'm disputing that nobody seems to get around here

Well, tough cheese I guess.

 

Thats simply because you dont want to "go there" because you'll be entering into a verbal lambasting from someone who likely doesnt want to hear rational logic at that point in time. Let the professional therapist ask her that in a round about way...thats what they went to school for.

No...

 

I would ask her again when she has a clear head, and she is emotionally sound. Nothing would be gained by communicating with somebody verging on emotional breakdown.

 

which would mean that they are grey?

Like I said, an affair is an affair and everything that it implies. Grey and grey morality has nothing to do with it in my eyes.

 

Old..you know I actually do like chatting with you.....but with all due respect....where the hell are you going with all this because your opinion seems quite similar to mine in most respects.

One of the biggest differences between you and me is actually quite simple...

 

When I went 3 years without sex due to my wife's depression, I could have easily had affair if I wanted. The reason that I didn't isn't because I believed it to be morally wrong, but because I knew what the potential risks would be to my wife, my daughter, and the possible MOW. And I didn't have it in me to place all three of them in the spotlight, especially when all three were in relatively vulnerable positions.

 

...I was also too ****ing tired for sex.

 

Anyway, I don't think that there is much else to say. So we're pretty done here I guess.

[StoneCold]

That is one of the oldest forms of rationalization and justification in the books,. The "Everybody does it" excuse..

 

Wheres the rationalization?...if you pay attention to what I write I dont mark myself to other. I was merely making a point that you cant accept....and thats fine you are entitled to feel the way you choose.

 

I clearly said that I am the way i am and I'm OK with it

 

 

I think it is better to look and see if your right to have fun causes harm and pain to someone else. If it does then you should not do it..

 

According to your rationalization based on a very short coles notes summary. I'll pass on this advice...what would you know about my or anybody elses situation?

 

and if you do you are not honest with yourself.

 

sorry but this makes no sense

[StoneCold]

Anyway, I don't think that there is much else to say. So we're pretty done here I guess.

 

Agreed......

[Steadfast]

I like this...especially the bolded..

 

Thats what it gets down to...for the good and the bad if you are happy with yourself then I would say its a good thing.

 

This kind of subjective-reasoning is the root of the problem. And while we can't, shouldn't try or be allowed to take freedom of choice away, giving a blessing to whatever behavior or decision a person makes is insanity. And, you don't mean it StoneCold. Not really. Because it would be different if someone's decision or behavior infringed on something that was important to you. Therein lies my point about selfishness.

 

"Honor" is a misused word that fairy tales are built around. People are deluded by it...they use the word and say "I'm honorable" yet they almost never truly are. But hey...what ever floats their boat

No one who is honorable or honest says they are.

 

Honor is mainly two things; doing what you say you'll do, and respecting another person's personal property. Is it rare and becoming even rarer? I'd say yes. Not surprising when the reward is insults or contempt. This, of course, is done so those without honor can feel better about themselves.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Steadfast