Okay this is really bad to admit. But I just realized something.

May 26, 2011

I was reading some threads & also just talking to my best friend about my feels & fears & thoughts, which led me to a startling revelation. I'm kind of afraid to put this out here because it makes me sound evil & I guess I am. But WTH I have put everything else out here & I am trying to figure all of this out & maybe someone can help me if I share this horrible stuff.

I think I have something against wives. Which I never noticed until now. My mom was a stay at home mom & her whole world revolved around us, to the point of being smothering, over-protective, suffocating. I always identified more with my dad, who encouraged my education & ambitions. I am the oldest kid & as we grew up my mom was so tough on me. I know she was afraid of losing me & didn't want to let go or let me grow up. She started going a bit insane. She has a lot of mental health issues & she takes them out on everyone around her. I understand that this is how depression works & I love her very much but as a teenager & young adult it was so hard for me & everyone else in my family. She & my dad are still married but they have the worst relationship ever & I know my dad has cheated on her at least emotionally & I think physically. [He doesn't know that I know this. She doesn't know about it at all as far as I know. And As far as I know it didn't happen while I was growing up, but, my therapist says maybe it did & I just didn't know it but sensed it. ? Idk.]

Anyway. I have always been afraid to become my mother. I wanted to be independent & not have to rely on a man for money or security or anything else. I have never wanted to get married & have the traditional 2.5 kids & a picket fence house, I am more adventurous & bohemian, but at the same time I guess I figured marriage & maybe kids would happen as a natural result of a relationship & I'm not necessarily 'against' the idea, I just never wanted that to define me & so didn't concentrate on it much. I have a successful career & make good money & I am no longer afraid of becoming my mom although I do feel that I probably inherited some of her depression issues as I do get depressed & have a lot, I mean a lot, of anxiety, & control issues.

So, then there's my xMM & his wife. He has a very powerful successful career & her world completely revolves around him. I knew her before he & I started our affair. It is the type of relationship where he can go out all night long & hang with his buddies & flirt with the ladies & she is at home with the kids. As soon as I met them I thought I would never want to be her in a million years. I know this sounds mean & I guess I am mean, I'm just trying to be completely honest. I think I was fascinated/intrigued by him & by her & by their relationship. I admired him professionally & wanted to be like him but at the same time I hated his bad temper & mood swings & unreliability long before we started the affair. [Yeah, it makes no sense that I would be involved with someone I didn't like half the time, but, that is what happened.]

I feel like I felt bad about what we were doing to his wife & some of the time when I called it off it was out of guilt & not wanting to sneak around behind her back anymore. But other times I wondered how she could stay with someone who kept cheating on her & I thought, I never want to be like that. Which is ironic because I was with the same man & accepting his cake-eating. And I know that if we had 'worked out' he would do the same to me . . . I had already caught him in lots of lies & of course he was lying to her too. [To be fair, I have my own issues & didn't always treat him well either. It was just a messed up relationship all around but I stayed in it for a long time (too long!)].

My friend was just telling me that I will find a man & relationship with balance - where we are equal in terms of our goals & interests & careers etc. & neither of us walks over the other & there is mutual respect etc. I told her I am afraid to death of even looking because I'm afraid I won't find it! Or that if I do find it I will get so hurt, like xMM's wife, or that my expectations won't be fulfilled, like my mom. She said that's why relationships are scary. So, I guess I have fear. And maybe vindictiveness at wives/mothers because of my mother? For the record I'm not saying any of this excuses what I did. I know I did some crappy stuff. I'm just trying to figure out the psychology behind it & my sub-conscious motivations so that I can get it out of my system & not repeat it. I feel I have learned a lot from it but this latest revelation really threw me for a loop!

May 26, 2011

I was reading some threads & also just talking to my best friend about my feels & fears & thoughts, which led me to a startling revelation. I'm kind of afraid to put this out here because it makes me sound evil & I guess I am. But WTH I have put everything else out here & I am trying to figure all of this out & maybe someone can help me if I share this horrible stuff.

I think I have something against wives. Which I never noticed until now. My mom was a stay at home mom & her whole world revolved around us, to the point of being smothering, over-protective, suffocating. I always identified more with my dad, who encouraged my education & ambitions. I am the oldest kid & as we grew up my mom was so tough on me. I know she was afraid of losing me & didn't want to let go or let me grow up. She started going a bit insane. She has a lot of mental health issues & she takes them out on everyone around her. I understand that this is how depression works & I love her very much but as a teenager & young adult it was so hard for me & everyone else in my family. She & my dad are still married but they have the worst relationship ever & I know my dad has cheated on her at least emotionally & I think physically. [He doesn't know that I know this. She doesn't know about it at all as far as I know. And As far as I know it didn't happen while I was growing up, but, my therapist says maybe it did & I just didn't know it but sensed it. ? Idk.]

Anyway. I have always been afraid to become my mother. I wanted to be independent & not have to rely on a man for money or security or anything else. I have never wanted to get married & have the traditional 2.5 kids & a picket fence house, I am more adventurous & bohemian, but at the same time I guess I figured marriage & maybe kids would happen as a natural result of a relationship & I'm not necessarily 'against' the idea, I just never wanted that to define me & so didn't concentrate on it much. I have a successful career & make good money & I am no longer afraid of becoming my mom although I do feel that I probably inherited some of her depression issues as I do get depressed & have a lot, I mean a lot, of anxiety, & control issues.

So, then there's my xMM & his wife. He has a very powerful successful career & her world completely revolves around him. I knew her before he & I started our affair. It is the type of relationship where he can go out all night long & hang with his buddies & flirt with the ladies & she is at home with the kids. As soon as I met them I thought I would never want to be her in a million years. I know this sounds mean & I guess I am mean, I'm just trying to be completely honest. I think I was fascinated/intrigued by him & by her & by their relationship. I admired him professionally & wanted to be like him but at the same time I hated his bad temper & mood swings & unreliability long before we started the affair. [Yeah, it makes no sense that I would be involved with someone I didn't like half the time, but, that is what happened.]

I feel like I felt bad about what we were doing to his wife & some of the time when I called it off it was out of guilt & not wanting to sneak around behind her back anymore. But other times I wondered how she could stay with someone who kept cheating on her & I thought, I never want to be like that. Which is ironic because I was with the same man & accepting his cake-eating. And I know that if we had 'worked out' he would do the same to me . . . I had already caught him in lots of lies & of course he was lying to her too. [To be fair, I have my own issues & didn't always treat him well either. It was just a messed up relationship all around but I stayed in it for a long time (too long!)].

My friend was just telling me that I will find a man & relationship with balance - where we are equal in terms of our goals & interests & careers etc. & neither of us walks over the other & there is mutual respect etc. I told her I am afraid to death of even looking because I'm afraid I won't find it! Or that if I do find it I will get so hurt, like xMM's wife, or that my expectations won't be fulfilled, like my mom. She said that's why relationships are scary. So, I guess I have fear. And maybe vindictiveness at wives/mothers because of my mother? For the record I'm not saying any of this excuses what I did. I know I did some crappy stuff. I'm just trying to figure out the psychology behind it & my sub-conscious motivations so that I can get it out of my system & not repeat it. I feel I have learned a lot from it but this latest revelation really threw me for a loop!

I have to say, not every wife is all about " her man" my husbsnd is a serial cheater, but im very independent i do my own thing and i could live without him and be happy,just ssayin dont put a stereotype on wives were not all the same.

May 26, 2011

I have to say, not every wife is all about " her man" my husbsnd is a serial cheater, but im very independent i do my own thing and i could live without him and be happy,just ssayin dont put a stereotype on wives were not all the same.

This is good to know. I do see examples of wives who are independent & do their own thing. My boss. One of my good friends. But I guess I don't focus on them as much as the ones who seem co-dependent to me. So thank you for pointing it out. On a separate note, may I ask why you stay with a serial cheater, or is that too personal? If so sorry.

May 26, 2011

I think looking inside yourself is a good thing to do. and thinking why you do and acted the way you did is a good thing.

Stop beating yourself up. Accept you make mistakes, aren't perfect, and if there are things about you you want to change - and personally, because of your depression and really critical way of thinking about yourself - look into seeking professional help in changing those things about you, if you haven't already.

I just want to say, while I was a stay at home mom until this year, and while I do pamper my husband way too much, I do not sufficate my children, I push them to be the best they can be, to be independent. And while he cheated on me, I don't consider myself to be a push over, I am rather independent and I certainly don't need him if I didn't want him, but since I want him, I forgave him. I've met women like you are talking about, but simply being wife doesn't make them those things.

Also....what you fear in them, what you despise in them....I'm better is what you fear the most in yourself. Could this be why you got with a married man in the first place? And accepted less then you would ever accept from a single guy. And allowed him to treat you way less then you would let a single man treat you.

You are doing some great thinking....keep taking it deeper.

May 26, 2011

This was a good post.

I noticed you mentioned that you didn't want marriage and kids to define who you are and I think a lot of women feel that way now a days but I think the balance is off and leaning more towards career/CEO status.

It's almost as if women are saying "Let a career define me! but not being a wife or mother!" When did being a wife and a mother start meaning a woman had no depth or ambition?

This isn't to take out on the OP - just my thought. Maybe I'll make a thread about it.

May 26, 2011

26P.. You're wonderful!

You aren't your mom..Even if you have some traits of hers, you won't be like for many reasons.. She has mental illness, you don't. And, even if you did, it would be dealt with. Times are different now than when your mom was married and having children. Women work! Most can't afford to have one income, let alone a stay home parent, and many women don't want to be a stay at home mom **Just to clarify there is nothing wrong with that at all if the couple decides that's what is best for their kids.**

Being a mom is the hardest job, though some can lose who they are and be "mom" "wife".. 26, you won't lose who you are because you're strong and know what you want/don't want. Don't worry about turning into your mother!

May 26, 2011

26PB, I'm actually very surprised to read that you have a thing against wives!

Many of your posts are very friendly toward the BW and you usually speak with great compassion and grace toward other posters-even those who you disagree with.

So you have issues with your mother...well, so do a lot of women. My mom and I are very different as well and she can drive me nuts.

When I was in IC during and after my H's affair, I scrutinized many of my relationships, including the one with my mother (my father is gone), I learned a lot about myself by examining her and my relationship with her.

I don't know, I was surprised by your post. I've read posts by OW or fOW who do seem to have problems with wives in my opinion but you never seemed to be one of them.

But like another poster said, self-introspection is always a good thing.

May 26, 2011

I think this is a great break through!

In retrospect, was it EASIER to have an affair with this MM because you PROJECTED many negative traits and emotions (ala mama) onto his wife?

Did you respect her less because she was a SAHM dependent on a man, like your mom was?

Do/did you assume she shared some traits with your mom?

If yes, did you use some of that same lack of respect to give yourself permission to engage in an affair?

Because the triangulation necessary to engage in an affair DOES REQUIRE some demonization or denigration of the spouse.

Good work, 26 blue!

May 26, 2011

26PB, I have to wonder what was going through your head (no disrespect intended - I wonder that about myself at times ) to take up with the kind of man who expects his wife to be a good, meek little mommy and turn a blind eye to his philandering ways? Isn't that the exact life you seek to discourage for yourself?

But - wow. You really are deep. Way to go for examining your motives and mindset this way!

May 26, 2011

Knocking down those barriers that keep one from living a truly healthy life is what hard work is. Keep working hard. I would say you don't have a thing against wives, but a thing against what you believe the wife is. The image or role that is modeled in most societies. Some women will fit that image because they have been spoon fed it since birth. Some women will display parts of that image(I did) others will fight against it at all cost(you). In finding the healthy way, you find out who you are. This revelation is part of finding the healthy you. It doesn't mean you something against wives per-say...just the image that is out there. Realize that all wives aren't just women playing a role, but they are people who have feelings, hopes, dreams and goals...just like those women who aren't wives.

May 26, 2011

Wow thanks everyone for the helpful thought-provoking responses! I'm going to go back & re-read each one now. This is all very helpful.

May 26, 2011

I think I've finally figured out how to respond to specific portions of a quote [lots of cut & paste ha ha] so let me give it a try, sorry if it messes up. :-)

I think looking inside yourself is a good thing to do. and thinking why you do and acted the way you did is a good thing.

Stop beating yourself up. Accept you make mistakes, aren't perfect, and if there are things about you you want to change - and personally, because of your depression and really critical way of thinking about yourself - look into seeking professional help in changing those things about you, if you haven't already.

I'm in therapy & I think it is what has helped me think of some of these things. But I do have a big problem with depression & critical thinking about myself -- over-analyzing everything & automatically freaking out thinking about the worst instead of thinking positively. It's something I'm really, really trying to fight. I've started reading little meditations with positive thinking in categories like my career & relationships etc. And I started going to a unitarian church where they have meditations & affirmations that are really helpful for me. So I'm working on it but I feel it is my nature & stems from my bad anxiety. Sometimes I really wonder if I should go on meds! But I'm trying to make positive changes without taking medication.

I just want to say, while I was a stay at home mom until this year, and while I do pamper my husband way too much, I do not sufficate my children, I push them to be the best they can be, to be independent. And while he cheated on me, I don't consider myself to be a push over, I am rather independent and I certainly don't need him if I didn't want him, but since I want him, I forgave him. I've met women like you are talking about, but simply being wife doesn't make them those things.

That's good, I'm glad you are not too over-protective with your children. :-) I see how just because a woman is a wife or mother doesn't mean these 'stereotypes' are true. You sound like a very strong woman. :-)

I think I'm finally realizing that I do want to get married & probably have kids, & that's a really scary thought . . . to invest so much of myself into someone with the risk that they will hurt me. In the past I've 'dating down' or dated xMM . . . I suppose because it came with a lot less risk. I wasn't that into the person or the person couldn't really be totally into me, & so we just each did our own thing & kind of used each other. I would like a real relationship where I feel invested & the other person is too but I really start to freak out about that. I think in the past I honestly would have rather have been the cheater or the person helping cheat than the person being cheated on, so I made sure that those were the situations I put myself in instead of really opening myself up to someone where that could happen. :-/

Also....what you fear in them, what you despise in them....I'm better is what you fear the most in yourself. Could this be why you got with a married man in the first place? And accepted less then you would ever accept from a single guy. And allowed him to treat you way less then you would let a single man treat you. [/quote

I'm interested in this question but not quite sure I totally understand it. Are you talking about what I just talked about above - that I'm afraid of being hurt so I don't put myself out there? Or do you mean I'm afraid I'll become co-dependent & let my life revolve around a man? I guess the answer to both questions [perhaps you meant something totally different!] is yes. It's hypocritcal because my life did revolve around xMM. I mean, on the one hand I could say, I do my own thing & when we can see each other, we do . . . & that was true. But I loved him deeply & wanted to be with him & that involved fanagling my schedule to be available when he was, & a more emotional level of just being everything he needed, his bandaid or soft landing or sounding board or whatever, without thinking enough about what I truly needed & deserved. I did accept a lot worse treatment from him than single guys -- he was supposed to help me move, help me set up furniture, help me fix my car, help me with my sick dog, blah blah blah, but he almost always let me down. Because his own life was such a mess & he'd get caught up with some crises at home or he would have to stay home so his wife wouldn't catch on that he was with me etc. It was pathetic really so how could I judge her for staying with him while he kept cheating, when I kept staying with him when he wasn't giving me what I needed either?! He has a very all-consuming personality, is selfish & pretty much commands that the woman he is with gives everything to him without expecting much in return [there are good things about his personality but this was a very bad one in terms of relationships], & I went along with it. I don't know why. I guess there is a part of me that like that & so yeah I fear it, you're right, but then I did it as an OW instead of a wife. I really don't know which is worse. Honestly I'm glad I'm free of him, not married to him & don't have kids with him, so I guess at least I learned this before I married someone like that. I don't know. I'm just trying to look on the bright side because it's depressing thinking of what I accepted from him. Thanks for the helpful exchange of dialog. :-)

May 26, 2011

This was a good post.

I noticed you mentioned that you didn't want marriage and kids to define who you are and I think a lot of women feel that way now a days but I think the balance is off and leaning more towards career/CEO status.

It's almost as if women are saying "Let a career define me! but not being a wife or mother!" When did being a wife and a mother start meaning a woman had no depth or ambition?

This isn't to take out on the OP - just my thought. Maybe I'll make a thread about it.

Yeah I did go totally in the opposite direction & I don't really regret it but I worry that it makes it harder to find an equal partner. I feel that a lot of guys are intimidated by women who have successful careers & make a lot of money. That they want a woman they can take care of & to be domestic & motherly, etc. I am not domestic at all. I feel I could be motherly but it's not a burning instinct in me. So if somebody wants someone to fulfill that typical role, it is not me. I know I may become more 'relationship-y' if I'm actually in a good relationship but I also know I will never be a Betty Croker & I don't want to be. I find great fulfillment in having my own career. So I would need to find a guy who understands that.

I was reading a book about dating & it said that men were asked in a survey what their preferred/ideal career would be for their future wife, & the largest percentage of guys by far answered elementary school teacher. Some guys specifically said they would not want to date or marry doctors, lawyers or other high-ranking professionals. I kind of had this lightbulb moment where I was like, hmmm, here I was thinking I was securing a good future & increasing my potential by going into a high-powered career, but I guess it's a turn-off to a lot of guys. I thought about women who married powerful, rich guys based on their looks mainly & thought, maybe I should have been working more on the looks department than the brains department! [i feel that I'm attractive & I've been told this - but I never focused on looks, I was always more of a nerdy brain.] I know in my head that I don't want to just marry rich or care about looks. I know I want a man who I can connect with intellectually & talk to easily & who has similar goals & ambitions. That was something I loved about xMM but the funny thing is that he was one of those men who married for looks first & foremost. He admitted that he didn't want a smart or career-minded wife but rather a wife who looked good on his arm & turned heads & who would run the house & take care of the kids. Then he cheats on her with someone a lot more like himself . . . it doesn't make a lot of sense. I guess he wanted everything & so did I.

Idk, I do know there have to be guys out there who appreciate a career-minded woman & who don't have the old stereotypes about what a wife is supposed to be. [it probably didn't help that xMM is much older than me & from a completely different generation/school of thought when it comes to women - in fact he would often come across as sexist & that would but me to death.] I think I need to realize I am not just my career- I am also attractive, & fun-loving, creative & caring [i'm not saying this to brag - kind of to make myself believe it], & I do want to have a nice place to live & do things like cook meals & work on house projects etc. - it's just that I'm not in a place in my life where that kind of stuff makes a lot of sense. It's just me & my pets & my new little place I got so that I can save money to start my own business. :-) But eventually I would like to share that with someone so I don't want to worry that they won't appreciate other aspects of me besides my brain. I think I have defined myself by just that for too long.

May 26, 2011

26P.. You're wonderful!

You aren't your mom..Even if you have some traits of hers, you won't be like for many reasons.. She has mental illness, you don't. And, even if you did, it would be dealt with. Times are different now than when your mom was married and having children. Women work! Most can't afford to have one income, let alone a stay home parent, and many women don't want to be a stay at home mom **Just to clarify there is nothing wrong with that at all if the couple decides that's what is best for their kids.**
Being a mom is the hardest job, though some can lose who they are and be "mom" "wife".. 26, you won't lose who you are because you're strong and know what you want/don't want. Don't worry about turning into your mother!

Aww thanks WWIU. :-)

I will have to remember that when I start to worry. I have definitely made different life choices than my mom & so you're right, why would I think I would start to become her. I guess it's just a deep-rooted fear I have to get over!

May 26, 2011

26, just wanted to add.... I had counselling for 7 months after my romantic relationship broke down last summer.

I thought it would help with recovering from an abusive relationship, the loss of my biological father who I was barely allowed to know (died aged 52), some old molestation issues, self-confidence, coping with breaking up with MM, some serious stress in the workplace (including unwanted advances from boss). I thought those things would be a good start! So often the paths led to my mum. Over and over. Lots of things trouble me about her and our relationship, nothing major, all just simmering under the surface. The breadth and depth of issues astounded me. Your post reminded me of that... Suppose I'd better telephone her this weekend

May 26, 2011

IDK. I don't really see how it relates to "wives" as much as perhaps "mothers". Maybe it is interchangeable but it seems the fear or dislike is based more on how your mother raised you and not necessarily the type of wife she was.

Interesting observation. My mom isn't the stereotypical doting, self-sacrificing wife . . . I think she was at one time but she feels my dad took it all for granted & now she has a lot of resentment & she pretty much refuses to do any 'wifely duties' or whatever. My dad will complain that her job is a homemaker & she doesn't do her job because the house is a mess - they could seriously be on Hoarders - or even really take care of my little siblings. So you're right, she is not the typical "wife" now, but, she did marry very young [she isn't even 50 yet] & had the traditional marriage & family goals . . . I guess you're right that my issues with her aren't really about her having gotten married, but about sacrificing everything about herself for people who she thought didn't really appreciate it the wau she wants [part of that is due to her depression which I think makes her very selfish & inwardly-focused. I see this part in myself & it's what I would like to change if only I knew how!] I guess it's liberating to know that I don't have to do things that way -- to me marriage & family was always intertwined with that & I wanted none of it.

I can somewhat relate though. I identify with men mostly, but get on well with strong minded women. Women who cry a lot, have a lot of drama in their lives, gossip a lot, who can't do things for themselves, etc I perceive as being weak. I hate to say it, but I actually loathe them to a certain degree. Not sure why. I know it's highly unfair because beneath all of that are probably hearts of gold, but frankly, I don't invest enough time to find out.

I am the CEO of my own corporation, and my business is managing other corporations, so I'm used to dealing with straight faced, no nonsense, executive types. Perhaps this is what has shaped my way of thinking.

Having said that, I am a wife (for the second time lol) and I'm far from being smothering with my H or my children. Perhaps I'm a little overprotective of my children but I do let them make their own mistakes and I encourage independent thinking.

I've bought my own homes, my own cars, have my own money (and make more than 2x what my H does). I still treat him like a man in the bedroom and an equal everywhere else. And in no way would he try to subjugate me nor would I allow that. He respects me for who I am and what I've accomplished. My strength and independence and ability to overcome adversity are some of the things he loves about me.

There is no real definition of what a wife or mother has to be. You be yourself and find the person who will love you because of who you are.

All of this is good ot know. I'm glad you found someone who respects you for who you are & that you feel equal in the relationship.

I usually get along with guys better than women as well but lately I've been examining this & I don't really know if it's a good thing for me. I would like to have more female friendships. I do have a couple very close female friends. But other than that I find it hard to relate to females. Luckily my boss is a woman & a great role model; that's helped a lot because I used to see men as powerful & women as either the assistants or as really b&tchy. [Funny enough I'm sure some people would call my boss b&tchy but it's just because she's no-nonsense & direct . . . maybe because I know her well, I don't think she is at all.]

May 26, 2011

26PB, I'm actually very surprised to read that you have a thing against wives!

Many of your posts are very friendly toward the BW and you usually speak with great compassion and grace toward other posters-even those who you disagree with.

So you have issues with your mother...well, so do a lot of women. My mom and I are very different as well and she can drive me nuts.

When I was in IC during and after my H's affair, I scrutinized many of my relationships, including the one with my mother (my father is gone), I learned a lot about myself by examining her and my relationship with her.

I don't know, I was surprised by your post. I've read posts by OW or fOW who do seem to have problems with wives in my opinion but you never seemed to be one of them.

But like another poster said, self-introspection is always a good thing.

I'm glad I don't come across as having an issue with wives. I think it was something sub-conscious & am just exploring why I was motivated to do what I did. I did feel it was some kind of a force propelling me - I knew I shouldn't, yet I had a strange fascination & did anyway. So now I ask myself, why. You're right that examining the relationship really helps me understand myself better.

May 26, 2011

I think this is a great break through!

In retrospect, was it EASIER to have an affair with this MM because you PROJECTED many negative traits and emotions (ala mama) onto his wife?

Did you respect her less because she was a SAHM dependent on a man, like your mom was?

Do/did you assume she shared some traits with your mom?

If yes, did you use some of that same lack of respect to give yourself permission to engage in an affair?

Because the triangulation necessary to engage in an affair DOES REQUIRE some demonization or denigration of the spouse.

Good work, 26 blue!

Yes, definitely. I'll be totally honest here even though my thoughts are horribly ugly! I never liked his wife from the first time I met her [& she never liked me], so I guess that made it quite easy to not care as much about what I was doing once we started doing it. [Although I did have guilt about both hurting her & the affair in general - but I guess it made it easier to mitigate it or something.] I thought she was weak for doing everything for her husband & not getting anything out of it other than the status of being a powerful man's wife & a luxurious lifestyle. [i'm sure she got other things out of it but that's how I perceived it.] She would call around looking for him after he stayed out all night. I just felt like she had no pride. [Yeah look who's talking, I know. But it was my twisted way of thinking.] I thought she wasn't very smart at all & it was frustrating to even try to hold a conversation with her. I wondered how such a smart guy could marry such a not smart woman . . . this is a question I always ask myself when I see it happen, what do they have to talk about?!

I think by being involved in the affair I was playing out a lot of issues I have with myself & my identity. Growing up I was always the smart one & my sister was the pretty one. That's just how it was, with our parents, siblings, friends, people at school, everywhere. I guess instead of fighting that role or showing that both of us had both traits, we each clung to our own role. She was the popular one who all the boys liked & who diligently did her hair every day before school, & I was the shy nerdy one who secluded myself in books & didn't care about my appearance at all. Perhaps as a coping mechanism both of us reveled in our own role & even punished the other one for her role - we were always very close but she would make fun of me for being a bookworm & I would make fun of her for her grades etc. It was actually really sick when I look back on it, but we didn't really know we were doing it, we were just kids/teenagers.

In college I continued that role & went to an artsy fartsy liberal arts school where I totally fit in. It wasn't until graduate school, far away from my sister & my hometown, & mixed in with people from a variety of different backgrounds, all of whom were very smart - that I realized I was pretty! Guys complimented my looks & wanted to date me, & the young single women in my class wanted to be my friend - I was suddenly popular for the first time in my life! It was a completely different role than I was used to playing. I felt really insecure in it & didn't make the best decisions - I had a bunch of drinking/party friends but no real good, close friends for awhile; I had a string of random hook-ups but no stable relationship -- I was pretty much thrown for a loop identity-wise. For the first time ever I was more interested in going out & being social than studying. It was very weird.

Now I feel I'm in a better place where I know that I am both beautiful & intelligent, & so is my sister. We've talked about it & she's had similar experiences realizing that she is very smart & ambitious - not just a pretty face. What I think is that I had an 'intelligence complex' like she had an 'image complex.' She dealt with anorexia as a teenager & has always had body image issues. In thinking about it, at first it seemed ironic to me because she was the pretty one! What did she have to be insecure about? -- everyone thought she was gorgeous. Still I guess she didn't see it or she felt she had to over-prove it, or it swallowed up her identity or something, because it was all she focused on. Likewise, I guess I got so into my role as the smart & successful sister/daughter that I had issues because of it. I looked down on people who weren't smart or ambitious, I looked down on women who cared about looks over brains, or who thought their looks could get them everywhere in life.

So, I guess I saw women like xMM's wife as weak & silly. I had something against them because they were different from me, but maybe it was because I wasn't okay with who I was. I had to keep proving my smarts like my sister had to keep proving her looks.

I guess I sure did answer your question Spark, ha ha. I'm really not proud of all of this but am just trying to be really honest with myself. I believe you're right that to justify being in an affair takes a great deal of villifying the spouse. I often thought, wow, what did she do wrong, she does everything for him & everything as a wife & mother?! So I guess to justify it so that I didn't hate xMM or myself, I figured, she over does it, she's weak, she gives too much & then resents him for it [like my mom ]. I suppose that was my sub-conscious & then conscious method of thinking. Thanks for the helpful questions.

May 26, 2011

26PB, I have to wonder what was going through your head (no disrespect intended - I wonder that about myself at times ) to take up with the kind of man who expects his wife to be a good, meek little mommy and turn a blind eye to his philandering ways? Isn't that the exact life you seek to discourage for yourself?

But - wow. You really are deep. Way to go for examining your motives and mindset this way!

Yeah . . . I do not want that kind of life & I guess maybe sub-consciously I was thinking, I'd rather be the OW getting wined & dined than the poor wife at home worrying about where her husband is. I think in my head it was either betrayed/co-dependent wife or fun/independent OW, & so I chose the latter. I guess. But now I realize another choice is to just not be involved in it at all & hope that I can find someone fun & faithful!

May 26, 2011

(((26.blue)))

It's important to understand the driving forces.

Heh, you know, we are really quite different but you are still one of my favorite people on here. There's an argument for listening to others who make different life choices.

May 26, 2011

Knocking down those barriers that keep one from living a truly healthy life is what hard work is. Keep working hard. I would say you don't have a thing against wives, but a thing against what you believe the wife is. The image or role that is modeled in most societies. Some women will fit that image because they have been spoon fed it since birth. Some women will display parts of that image(I did) others will fight against it at all cost(you). In finding the healthy way, you find out who you are. This revelation is part of finding the healthy you. It doesn't mean you something against wives per-say...just the image that is out there. Realize that all wives aren't just women playing a role, but they are people who have feelings, hopes, dreams and goals...just like those women who aren't wives.

This is really helpful. I am against that image of wives but need to realize not all -- probably not most -- wives are like that & that I don't have to be like that if I get married. I also don't want to fight against it at all costs either. Idk why I am just realizing this . . . I went through a similar thing with religion but at a younger age, like late high school/ early college. In my opinion my parents were hypocritically religious & so were a lot of people in our church & I started to think of religion as this bad evil thing. I became a raging atheist, which was from one extreme to the other! Finally after getting to know people of different religious beliefs or the same as my parents but who came across as genuine, I realized that religion itself is not a bad thing, it's just that image of religion that I had growing up. I'm still not religious but I'm not a raging atheist ha ha & I respect religion whereas before I despited it & resented religious people. I feel like this is a similar thing I'm learning about marriage & it is freeing . . . & I wonder why it took me so long to get here!

May 26, 2011

26, just wanted to add.... I had counselling for 7 months after my romantic relationship broke down last summer.

I thought it would help with recovering from an abusive relationship, the loss of my biological father who I was barely allowed to know (died aged 52), some old molestation issues, self-confidence, coping with breaking up with MM, some serious stress in the workplace (including unwanted advances from boss). I thought those things would be a good start! So often the paths led to my mum. Over and over. Lots of things trouble me about her and our relationship, nothing major, all just simmering under the surface. The breadth and depth of issues astounded me. Your post reminded me of that... Suppose I'd better telephone her this weekend

Yeah it's funny how we think our issues are one thing but they really lead back to another. I'm finally figuring that out! I have major Mom issues ha ha & also dad issues. I guess I just have a lot of issues!

May 26, 2011

(((26.blue)))

It's important to understand the driving forces.

Heh, you know, we are really quite different but you are still one of my favorite people on here. There's an argument for listening to others who make different life choices.

Aww thanks. How do you mean that we're different? Just curious.

May 26, 2011

Aww thanks. How do you mean that we're different? Just curious.

All I really desire is to be a mom.

I even decided not to go to med school despite very good test results in preference of being a stay at home mom and wouldn't change it as long as I have a choice. It fulfills me. (While, that, and triathlons. )

Of course, our different types of moms lead to different types of mommy issues.

May 26, 2011

Yeah . . . I do not want that kind of life & I guess maybe sub-consciously I was thinking, I'd rather be the OW getting wined & dined than the poor wife at home worrying about where her husband is. I think in my head it was either betrayed/co-dependent wife or fun/independent OW, & so I chose the latter. I guess. But now I realize another choice is to just not be involved in it at all & hope that I can find someone fun & faithful!

Hey, don't pidgeon hole your options or your thinking. That is sort of worrying about your identity as it SEEMS to others. Or, maybe you do not want the job as done by your mom.

Why not be the SAHM who gets wined and dined? And retains her independence?

And in all honesty, I have worked successfully outside the home, and then inside. HANDS DOWN the hardest job i ever had was staying home with young children.

But it was the most rewarding and I am grateful for that opportunity. TOday I look into the faces of three well-adjusted young adults who I adore and they adore me, and there is nothing that compares professionally to that accomplishment.

So, you may change your mind, and if you do, you do it in the way that works best for you and your SO.

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Okay this is really bad to admit. But I just realized something.

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