stace79 Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 If you've read my posts, you know my SO and I have had tons of drama throughout the five years we've known one another. I finally found a book/theory that may explain a lot of our problems and will most definitely help if/when I ever start dating someone new. It's about attachment theory and basically there are three types of attachment styles: secure, anxious and avoidant. Anyway it explains why some people appear controlling, needy and clingy, and why others are so standoffish, aloof and sometimes hostile. There's an online quiz to determine your attachment style, and I just started reading the book. It was like a light bulb - I was literally saying "Yes, that is exactly my relationship and now I understand." Bad news is that for people like me (an anxious attachment style person) who find themselves in Rs with avoidants, there's not a good prognosis. So for those of you not yet in serious Rs, read it! Think long and hard about it and make sure you only get involved with people who will support your emotional needs! http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=quiz-relationship-science-attachment-quiz
OriginalPenguin Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Wow, I dont usually buy into this sort of thing but I agree and had the same light bulb experience. Good stuff!
Author stace79 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 I'm glad if it can help even one other person. I like to share anything that works for me. I also like it because it debunks all this crap about "codependence" being bad. Codependency was a term/theory created for substance abuse problems, not relationships between HEALTHY people! Anyway it's a great read - they really put the psychological theory into layman's terms so it's easy to read, accompanied by stories from real people. And disclaimer: I have no affiliation with this research and I'm not trying to sell their book for them. I found the topic on a dating website's weekly e-newsletter.
pandagirl Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Yup, I've always known I am somewhat anxious. My last relationship was with an avoidant. And, yeah, that didn't work out. It was like textbook that way everything went down!
tigressA Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I just took the test(s) and I have an anxious attachment style. My BF is secure, so we're a very good match. My last relationship was with someone avoidant and it was textbook awfulness.
OriginalPenguin Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I just took the test(s) and I have an anxious attachment style. My BF is secure, so we're a very good match. My last relationship was with someone avoidant and it was textbook awfulness. Same here, I am anxious and she is secure. Neither of those is a big surprise
Author stace79 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 Same here, I am anxious and she is secure. Neither of those is a big surprise You and Tigress are so lucky. I'm anxious and my SO is avoidant. But we most certainly love each other, so it's hard to disentangle ourselves. It DOES help to learn that the little things we fight over (like him being friends with exes or not wanting to call me all the time) are symptoms of our attachment styles and not truly an indication that he doesn't really love me.
OriginalPenguin Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 You and Tigress are so lucky. I'm anxious and my SO is avoidant. But we most certainly love each other, so it's hard to disentangle ourselves. It DOES help to learn that the little things we fight over (like him being friends with exes or not wanting to call me all the time) are symptoms of our attachment styles and not truly an indication that he doesn't really love me. Ah, don't let that get to you! If you are anxious (like me) than I wonder if there is a chance you will see something like this study and start to think "Omg we are doomed!" Don't go there! If it's working, it's working.
Author stace79 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 Well, thanks for the support, but it hasn't been working! haha. Together off/on for five years. Been through an engagement, called off engagement, broke up for about four months last year, and were broken up from November to April. Now we are "seeing each other" and seeing if things can work. We have been to a counselor once so far, and plan to go again when we can coordinate our schedules. I got the book and am reading it, and then will share it with him, too. But I just started reading it last night and couldn't put it down. It does explain, though, why a lot of times we have both said "I really love you, but I just don't know if we work together."
Author stace79 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 It does have tips for improving your security. But it isn't a quick fix! Requires you to do some real evaluation of your past relationships, and if you're already in a R it requires both people to want to work at it. If the anxious one wants to work to resolve the issues, but the avoidant one doesn't, then the anxious has to decide to either leave or make some serious concessions. Edit: Addition: It does have tips for anxious and avoidant types who decide to break up, which can be very difficult.
Lovelybird Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I agree. In fact, I think every relationship needs hard works. If your bf is willing to go to counseling with you, I guess that is good start point.
utterer of lies Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 What a surprise, I am the secure type. Yay, I win.
Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 The Quiz says I am anxious but I don't think it's right. That only three points could explain all the ways two people can get together does not sound right to me. That means 3 different possible pairings? That seems to be far too few to explain the dating world. Secure and Anxious are antonym's and pair up nicely as we have testimony here to support that. What about Avoidant people are they just SOL? Secure <==>Anxious Avoidant people need someone who confronts issues which a "secure" person might not do. They need someone who is Concerned with the relationship which is not really "anxious". Avoidant <==> Concerned There really should be one more. There are allot of strange people out there. They need someone really Charming to date them. Strange <==> Charming. Now all I need to do is claim that dating is not unlike the way that quarks combine to make protons, neutrons, etc. Then write a book and sell it. I'll make $$$$$. /sarcasm
Author stace79 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 You'd have to actually read the study to understand. It's based on years of research, and someone like me hardly does the theory justice.
Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I read their link and I don't buy their claim. Three kinds of people is not enough to explain all the variety of couples out there. Three kinds of people means that there are what six kinds of couples? There have to be a few times that many kinds of couples.
Author stace79 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 There are three types of attachment styles, not three kinds of couples. Attachment style deals with how you form attachments. Sorry you can't catch on.
Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Three kinds of attachment styles. One style per person. Two people per couple. Means six kinds of couples. What's more. The kind of attachment theory mentioned in that link deals with infant mother attachment not romantic attachment. http://psycnet.apa.org/?&fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/0012-1649.28.5.759 Developmental Psychology, Vol 28(5), Sep 1992, 759-775. Attachment theory is based on the joint work of J. Bowlby (1907–1991) and M. S. Ainsworth (1913– ). Its developmental history begins in the 1930s, with Bowlby's growing interest in the link between maternal loss or deprivation and later personality development and with Ainsworth's interest in security theory. Although Bowlby's and Ainsworth's collaboration began in 1950, it entered its most creative phase much later, after Bowlby had formulated an initial blueprint of attachment theory, drawing on ethology, control systems theory, and psychoanalytic thinking, and after Ainsworth had visited Uganda, where she conducted the 1st empirical study of infant–mother attachment patterns. This article summarizes Bowlby's and Ainsworth's separate and joint contributions to attachment theory but also touches on other theorists and researchers whose work influenced them or was influenced by them. The article then highlights some of the major new fronts along which attachment theory is currently advancing. The article ends with some speculations on the future potential of the theory. (PsycINFO Database Record © 2010 APA, all rights reserved) Some quick googleing shows that for adults.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_in_adults Four styles of attachment have been identified in adults: secure, anxious–preoccupied, dismissive–avoidant, and fearful–avoidant. Investigators have explored the organization and the stability of mental working models that underlie these attachment styles. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/psp/73/6/1409/ This study tested whether working models of attachment guide how people construe and respond to social interactions by examining immediate responses to a range of everyday interactions and to specific attachment-relevant interactions. Patterns for immediate reports were compared with those for more memory-based, global reports. Secure, preoccupied, fearful, and dismissing participants provided immediate reports after their social interactions for 1 week and completed retrospective questionnaires. Attachment differences were accentuated in attachment-relevant, high-conflict interactions. Preoccupied participants responded more favorably after conflict than did secure or dismissing-avoidant participants. Immediate and retrospective patterns diverged in important ways. How working models contribute to perceptions may depend on the fit between attachment goals and the situation and on the extent of memory-based processing. Working models of attachment and daily social interactions. Pietromonaco, Paula R.; Barrett, Lisa Feldman Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol 73(6), Dec 1997, 1409-1423. doi: 10.1037/0022-3514.73.6.1409
Cee Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I am well acquainted with attachment theory and have read a lot of research. I don't think it's the be all, end all, but it's helpful. The hard part is that attachment is developed in very early childhood. So a person who is anxious or avoidant is going to have an uphill battle changing their style. I think a "fake it till you make it" approach might speed things up. For example, if an avoidant person is with a loving person, they stick around despite their thoughts screaming, "Run!" That's pretty hard to do though. We are told to trust our gut, even if it leads us into trouble. The other problem is that drama creates intensity. And some people equate intensity for love. So people would have to give up their cravings for intensity and instead work for true intimacy.
Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 The other problem is that drama creates intensity. And some people equate intensity for love. So people would have to give up their cravings for intensity and instead work for true intimacy. Yes the truest thing I have read here in a few days (Including things wrote by yours truly (trying to sound as full of **** as I am accused of being lol)). I like how Family guy puts it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzDK70zO-Eo I guess that the guy in that clip was secure and the woman as anxious?
Author stace79 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 Cee, does that mean avoidants are doomed to be alone for the rest of their lives, then?
sanskrit Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Don't like how they say that anxious and avoidant are "good matches" for secure, nor that they imply that bad behaviors or attitudes "type" us. It's like saying that pyromaniacs should date firemen. No, pyromaniacs should do everything in their power to -not- be pyromaniacs. Bad behaviors aren't "personalities," permanent or semipermanent qualities of "who we are." Truly anxious or avoidant people need to work on themselves diligently, not be deluded that there is a "secure" person out there who doesn't mind their junk in the attic. A smart "secure" person knows it and knows to avoid "avoidant" and "anxious" in seeking another "secure" person.
carhill Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 According to the quiz, my intrinsic attachment style is secure. However, practically speaking, having a sensitive nervous system, I pick up on others moods, issues and feelings very easily. This aspect is what nearly drove me crazy when caregiving for my mother, as I was picking up on her mental illness and it was affecting me. Now that she's dead, I'm fine. Same with other strong emotions/moods/feelings, especially within intimate relationships. MC helped me better process these personality aspects and create a better 'separation', for lack of a better term. My exW and I had different attachment style as well as different emotional styles. Empathy can only take one so far in a healthy way; after that, synergy is essential for compatibility. That lesson was the primary take-away from the failure of our M.
mo mo Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Took the quiz, it determined I am secure. I'd agree with that because I don't have a problem communicating my needs and feelings to women. I'm not afraid of intimacy either. It seems I have ended up with avoidant types recently though. Needless to say, those relationships crashed and burned. This is something I have been thinking about quite a bit recently. As a somewhat secure person, it's pretty hard for me to realize that a lot of people have a completely different way of thinking about relationships (and life in general, really). I basically have this attitude that what you get is directly related to the amount of effort you put into something, so you should work as hard as you can to make the most out of life. For example: I was taking college courses while I juggled a full-time job, a consistent exercise schedule and a somewhat active social/family life. A lot of people thought I was wasting time and money with school since I was already making decent money at work, but in my head and heart, I knew I could accomplish more with my life. Since I could, I believed I should, so I made a lot of sacrifices to get through it. I finally graduated a while back and I am super glad I went through with it. I also made a lot of sacrifices to stay in shape, but that paid off really well too. I'm 30 years old and I am in the absolute best shape I have ever been in and I have aged much better than most people I went to high school with. That's a snapshot of my philosophy on life. My philosophy on relationships is very similar. You have to work hard (as a team mind you) to get the most out of it. Apparently the avoidants either don't believe that or are really scared of something. Even though I hang around here and I notice certain behavioral patterns and I have read some detailed stories that are similar to situations I have been in, I still have a hard time wrapping my head around this completely different attitude people have about relationships. I'm trying though. To be fair, before I joined LS, I was completely lost on the matter. You guys have helped out quite a bit.
Author stace79 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 mo mo - I am classified as an anxious type, but I do share the belief that you get out of life -- and relationships -- what you put into it. My SO, though, is definitely avoidant. He tries to create all these boundaries and he always talks about needing independence. I don't feel like I'm trying to keep him from being himself, I just want to know that he is as invested in the R as I am and that I can count on him to be there. I feel like maybe the worst type you can get involved with is an avoidant, because even the concept of "working on the R" invokes a feeling of intimacy that they seem to have trouble dealing with.... Scary. Haha.
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