I can't figure out what's going on

[Ludmila]

Hi everyone. I haven't posted in a long time, but I have a relationship at the moment which is confusing me and could use some perspective, if anyone has time.

 

I met a really great man in January, who is a single parent at my child's school, and we have a lot of mutual friends. I know he is a good guy.

He's always seemed way out of my league due to being successful and good looking and so on. I normally look for the diamond inside the rock, and never find it iyswim. He's a diamond from every angle...I think!

 

We began hanging out a lot, I did a lot of work on his place with him, we've shared some good times and our children all play together. It's great, but I began to fall in love with him, and initially he seemed to be giving me some signals in return but eventually when nothing happened I said I was sorry, I thought I was reading it wrong, and hoped we could stay friends, and I'd get over my crush.

 

He acted surprised, anyway we stayed friends, and then he went home for two weeks, and when he came back he started teasing me and then he kissed me. He later said he didn't want a relationship, but did want to have sex, and I agreed, because I was so worked up by then, it would have been almost impossible not to.

 

After that it was a bit awkward as I didn't know what he wanted from me. He said let's just be friends, though he still wanted to be with me but not the relationship he thought I wanted.

 

It was very painful to be around him but eventually I said Ok, we'll stay friends. Since then I have carried on doing things with him and for him, garden work, building, looking after his children. He has barely touched me, but is always nice. I got more confident again after a few weeks, I'm still his friend, it;s all Ok. But he invited me to his party last weekend and all his friends including his brother were there. He introduced me to one person, and spoke one sentence to me the entire night. He walked away if I stood near him. I felt so unwelcome - he seemed to think I was automatically there, like part of the furniture, and he didn't tell anyone I'd helped set up the garden and so on, no one knew I was a close friend.

 

I stayed as my kids had gone to sleep, but there wasn't anywhere to sleep, and I ended up on the floor. He was very drunk and passed out on the sofa - not a word to me. I went on his bed with his brother, and his brother came on to me, and in the early morning we got close and we kissed a bit, held hands etc. then we talked and decided it was silly. I was so miserable about the fact my good friend had ignored me all night. I felt I had nothing to lose.

 

Anyway then friend woke up, and he asked where his bro was, and I said he slept on the couch (he did). Then my friend looked sad, and a bit tearful, but said he was Ok. They both went away on business the next day. I walked home in the rain with my children.

 

Last night I had a text from my friend, saying it seemed like something happened with his brother that night. I know his bro didn't say anything to him, so he just guessed. I didn't know what to say but I told him his brother comforted me as I was so upset, and that I was upset because I love him and felt very confused.

He said he's sorry I was sad and we'll talk when he is home.

 

I feel mixed up. His brother was able to offer me affection, and cared for me, and I never can ask for this from my friend. He hates PDAs. I just needed to be looked after for once. I love him - absolutely I do - but why does he act jealous, when he had said he didn't want me for himself?

 

What do I do now - I won't see his brother again, that's Ok. But I can't stand being 'in reserve'. I need my friend to step up, if he loves or wants me, and do something about it properly. I just don't know if he will.

[oldguy]

Things may have become complicated after he told you he didn't want a relationship just sex and you complied with that.

 

Also, most brothers do talk & even the resemblance of a relationship with two brothers is at best awkward.

 

If you don't talk to him about how you feel or what you want all he has to go by are your actions.

[Ludmila]

That's true, all he has to go on are my actions...we did try to talk and didn't get that far. We both tried to be honest.

 

It was strange though because he was acting as though in a relationship, in some ways, but not in others - we were almost like some married couple, doing everything together, and also having sex, but he didn't want to tell other people or have them gossip about us, and he said he didn't want the emotional attachment - though he was very emotionally attached, by the way he was acting. Just I wasn't allowed to be, I think.

 

He has an ex whom he shares childcare with and they get on great, but it's over. I think he is resistant to becoming involved again on a 'proper' basis.

 

It was awkward before we slept together, not just after, but anyway - the fact I stuck around I think has made him feel more secure. Maybe he is beginning to feel safer, I don't know. I was prepared to walk away but he seems to be upset over me going with someone else, and I can't figure out why someone acts jealous if he doesn't want me for himself...why would he even care?

 

Thankyou very much for replying. btw I won't be having a relationship with his brother. It was just comfort, I think.

[oldguy]

Perception is often key. You seem to have a relationship with this man and that is probably why he acts jealous. You spend a lot of personal time together, you help him around the house & garden, your having sex & I’m guessing your kids are friends. Damn, that sounds like a relationship to me. At least it sounds like your going through the motions but neither of you are willing to except the emotions.

 

Do the two of you spend a lot of time together with your kids?

[Ludmila]

Yes, we spend a great deal of time together with all the kids - he has them half the week - we often work on his place while the kids all play around us.

 

Other times he will have a work function and I'll have them all at my place, maybe for the night or just after school. I love his kids - they get on really well with mine.

 

We're not having sex, though - not now - we just did it once, about a month ago, and then we were sort of agreeing to be friends that have sex, and then he just didn't want to risk it getting awkward again - I think he didn't like me getting expectations based on sleeping with him, so for instance, that I could act like his girlfriend too much, especially in front of other people.

 

It makes him sound terrible doesn't it - like he is ashamed of me? I don't know what he feels, he says I'm very attractive, he really likes me physically, I'm interesting, clever, smart, great fun...and he said he kissed me the first time because he felt really close to me after working together all day.

 

I was a bit like, well, you just need someone to have sex with don't you. And he said 'maybe'! But he didn't want me to get upset.

 

The physical stuff just tailed off but somehow he still expects me to be there, helping out, he refused to stop being friends (said he was too stubborn and liked me too much) and I feel like I can choose either to not have him in my life at all, or to have what he can spare - which isn't enough either way.

 

It's this jealousy thing that got me thinking. If he doesn't want me, why act like he's upset when another guy shows an interest? He doesn't text me very often then suddenly last night he was super keen to know, he went on and on about it till I said what happened.

 

I think half my brain is hoping that this actually means he does want me. Everyone who knows us says it seems like we must be an item, we're together so much. But he will never acknowledge it to anyone.

 

thanks again for your time and trouble replying.

[oldguy]

We're not having sex, though - not now - we just did it once, about a month ago, and then we were sort of agreeing to be friends that have sex, and then he just didn't want to risk it getting awkward again - I think he didn't like me getting expectations based on sleeping with him, so for instance, that I could act like his girlfriend too much, especially in front of other people.

 

Something to consider is that it may be uncomfortable from his perspective; Dad showing affection for someone other than their mom I mean. Kids, even adult kids, take a long time after a divorce, to view their parents as separate individuals.

 

You might wan't to back the relationship up a little a & take advantage of the opportunity to date, away from kids & home projects. If your interested in him, ask him out, no expectations, just a date.

 

It's this jealousy thing that got me thinking. If he doesn't want me, why act like he's upset when another guy shows an interest? He doesn't text me very often then suddenly last night he was super keen to know, he went on and on about it till I said what happened.

 

Yes, there is jealousy, you and he are in a relationship, you have had a physical relationship, you take care of his kids, work around the house, thats a relationship & other men showing you attention jeopardies that.

 

As long as the jealousy is in the form of a mild annoyance its even healthy.

 

Look, if this wasn't a relationship I don't think you would have as much trouble walking away or at least be out dating other men.

[Ludmila]

Thankyou. That reply makes so much sense on several levels: firstly that it is perhaps a problem for him trying to maintain the right dynamic between himself, me and his ex (whom I am getting to know, though she doesn't know directly that we are or have been together - she knows I am there a lot, and is lovely to me). He has said he hates the gossip among the community we operate within, and therefore likes to keep this private - which I would not mind, if it were acknowledged as a relationship by him, in private, to me. I just need to figure what the correct boundaries are and without defining it, it's so hard to know that. iyswim!

 

I also think it is a relationship but one very much in terms of what he needs, not so much what I need, and we have to discuss it - maybe the thing with his brother will instigate a realisation in him that if he is to keep me, he needs to behave a little more affectionately, or I will constantly feel starved of it. I don't demand constant touching or sex but hardly a hug in three weeks is a bit much.

 

You're right, I can't go out with other men - I don't wish to - I know I love him. And I just think about him the whole time. I tried thinking about his brother instead - it was Ok, but not the same. And that is going nowhere.

 

I really hope we have the talk he promised when he returns, tomorrow...darn the ash cloud...hope it isn't longer than a day away.

 

You have been a really great help, today - thankyou so much, it is good just to bounce this off someone with perspective and as it happens, a lot of wisdom and sense

[sanskrit]

This will not sound diplomatic, sorry. Stop being this man's free maid. Is he returning any of these favors or work that you do for him? I understand that your children likely benefit, but otherwise, the relationship sounds completely one-sided in his favor. It also seems that it is putting you under a great deal of stress and confusion with mixed signals and rude treatment. You should never tolerate treatment in life that leaves you feeling like a piece of furniture.

 

Is your life better or worse because of this relationship and if better, how exactly?

[Ludmila]

Do you know, that's a great question. I'm not sure. When I was a little kid, I liked helping my father out working on stuff - so that's something I love, working on projects, it's how I bond with someone, I really enjoy physical work and it keeps me feeling purposeful.

 

So I am doing this stuff with him because I enjoy it. However I also need some input into my own needs, and that's not happening a great deal - for example at the party I realised how much I as just desperate to hold someone's hand, to be touched like that in a really natural way, like lovers often do - his arm around my shoulders, protecting me, or a little kiss just to say hello or goodnight. At one point I was sleeping on the floor and someone went and said to him, (I was dozing and heard this) there's a girl asleep on the floor, and he didn't do anything - his brother came and put a cover over me, but he didn't do anything.

 

I just need someone to take care of me sometimes, and it seems I am always taking care of him, never the other way round. I don't know what's up with that - if it's just how he expects things to be, always, or if he is waiting for his moment, as I am really self sufficient and there is not often the opportunity to help me. I'm not good at receiving help.

 

Love and affection though, I can receive but he won't do it. Which is why I am questioning whether this is indeed a relationship, and if not, why he cares about me liking his bro.

[Ludmila]

Sorry, what I mean is, I don't think he means to make me feel bad. I said last night that I was very unhappy at the party and he was like, 'Oh I am so sorry to hear that, I thought you were Ok' so he does care - he just has apparently no idea of what I need from him and when I need it.

 

I think the talk is definitely needed.

 

He makes my life better by being great with my kids, too, and by needing me (I want to be needed) and accepting my help - it sounds strange, but I have tried to help people out before and they haven't wanted me to, not sure why, things like looking after people's kids - almost I feel I'm not good enough, or people don't know me well enough as I'm not very social, even among the parents at school.

But our parenting is very similar and he trusts me. That means such a lot, and his kids really seem to like me too.

 

He is also very sexy, very beautiful and strong and kind. He has helped me before with things - just not that often. I don't want that - I want him to love me, and to show that with his gestures and words, just sometimes at least.

 

He makes things worse by not communicating clearly what I mean to him. I think this is where we need to work on it.

[sanskrit]

There's a far cry between questioning what went on with his brother and being willing to show you any affection at all. Things are different all over, but I can't imagine letting a guest in my house I cared about sleep on the floor unless I was also on the floor, no matter how drunk. He sounds rude, manipulative, and a user from what you post.

 

Stripping away lots of detail, this seems to be a case of unrequited love, and to put yourself in that situation is causing you pain and will cause you emotional damage in time. If you can't think of some reasons to continue the relationship that involve good things that it brings into your life, consider stepping back from it.

 

EDIT: and IMO "accepting your help" is not a good reason.

[Ludmila]

Thankyou. Probably you are right...I want to be in a relationship, a certain sort of relationship I suppose and I'm trying very hard to make this fit the picture in my mind, but it won't, because he cares less for me than I care for him - both in practical terms and emotional, I think.

 

I do need to walk away from him, it will be hard whatever I do, but thankyou for being straight with me - and the way you said it wasn't hurtful, not sure how you managed that but you did and I am grateful.

[Ludmila]

Well, he's home. We spent a bit of time together today, walking back from school (our kids go to the same place) in the morning and the afternoon, and I looked after his kids for a while after school too.

 

We didn't talk about anything that happened. It was like we were both afraid to, and I don't know why - I was scared to open a conversation which may not be resolved, in case he didn't really care that much about what happened or why I was unhappy or even what happened with his brother.

 

So we talked about other stuff, plans, work, kind of things. And the children. Everything was as usual, really. This evening I did go up behind him, as he was doing something, to look over his shoulder and I touched his back a little as I did so, and then as he was leaving a few minutes later, we had a proper hug - that was good.

Still awkward though.

And he made sure to say he would see us on Sunday or Monday, so he is booking us in advance as it were. I guess that's a good thing, we'll be doing something together.

 

I did mention his brother a couple of times, I said he had called me, and my friend was like 'He called You?!' and I just smiled awkwardly and nodded. nothing more was said but it was clear he was surprised. I just didn't want any more secrets...I hate hiding things from him.

 

Don't know what to think. when we are all together it feels almost as though we are one large family. I love that, and other people probably think we are, too.

 

So I'm none the wiser. It just seems back to how it was before.

[2sunny]

you are in fantasy land - he wants sex. you are willing to go there - and allow him to use you for a multitude of things - but he's not willing to proudly display you to his friends.

 

YOU are not HIS priority.

 

step away. do not walk with him, garden for him or DO anything for him.

 

IF he intends to SEE you - allow HIM to ask you out on a dat, court you, and make an effort for YOU.

 

stop chasing!

[spiderowl]

This guy is not treating you respectfully, as I see it. He didn't make sure you had somewhere comfortable to sleep nor escort you and your kids home. He didn't introduce you to his friends. While you may be getting a lot of things from him in some ways, respect is not one of the them. You have adopted a tactic of spending time with him and doing things for him as a way to have fun sharing with someone and to be near him. This won't work. He won't appreciate and value you as you are always there being his servant and not expecting anything for it. You had sex with him and let him get away with just being friends afterwards.

 

If you really want this guy and you want him to respect you, you'd need to take the risk of reducing his access to your life and you need to teach him how to treat you. I'd suggest withdrawing and not sharing. If he treats you disrespectfully, even in a small way, find something else to do elsewhere, away from him. Don't spent time with him again until he comes to you and invites you, respectfully. Don't share your private life with him much. If you had fun on the bed with his brother, then as he has given up the opportunity to be your partner, it's none of his business. His brother is an adult and so are you. Neither of you have to talk to your friend about what went on, it's private. Don't tell him if you are dating or who, let him wonder about it. Don't spend so much time with him. Make sure he knows your time is valuable and he has to earn it! Don't do his work for him unless he is reciprocating and doing something of equal value to you, something other than just being there.

 

You do both seem to be in some sort of relationship, but it's unbalanced and he is totally in control at the moment. You are not doing yourself any favours by letting him take charge. He won't respect you if you do. Only spend time with him if he is treating you with respect. The minute he doesn't, find a reason to leave. Eventually, the penny will drop and his behaviour may change. If it doesn't and he looks elsewhere, he really isn't the decent guy you need.

[sugarmomma]

He's using you and you are allowing him to. He said he didn't want a relationship and you seem to be hoping that his jealousy will make him realize what a wonderful catch you are and fall in love with you. That's not gonna happen since you have already accepted the lowest place on the totem pole (the booty call/**** buddy). Stop putting yourself in this position then trying to manipulate the situation so that it will turn out to your liking.

 

It won't.

[Ludmila]

Thankyou for all the replies. I guess you are right. Part of me was hoping that he just needs not to be in an official relationship, but I sense that he still needs me, as he makes plans to be around me, and seemed upset when he thought I was with someone else.

 

But it isn't really enough and I can see that there is some respect lacking. It's as though he is just not really mature enough yet to be that thoughtful, while his brother is several years older and therefore knows how to treat women sensibly, and take care of them.

 

Probably though I am just in fantasy land and he's never going to be that interested in me in the way I'd like him to. Everyone seems to think we are together and that's a big ego boost for me, but I am accepting whatever he can offer and that's not really enough is it. That's why I'm so fed up all the time, I'm always waiting for the big pay off, and it doesn't come.

 

I am not sure how to get out of this situation though. We already have planned to see each other tomorrow, our children are really close and play together all the time. I asked him last night if he still wants to 'talk' or if we are Ok as we are. He hasn't answered yet, he doesn't normally answer for a day or two, he's like that to everyone.

 

I think I'll see what he says and go from there. Thankyou, whoever said about his brother and me not being his business. That's true. I just didn't know where our boundaries were when it happened and I still don't - ie what Oldguy was saying about it actually being a relationship, it's so hard to tell what is his business and what isn't iyswim.

 

Thanks again everyone. Sorry for being slow. I haven't grown up with a great role model for relationships so I don't really know what I'm doing here