Infidelity is a Good Thing?

[Spark1111]

And some people are compassionate and like to return to help others who are now experiencing the pain of infidelity.

 

They are just kind and decent people who do not care about being right or wrong, they just want to share their experience, what helped them, what did not help them with someone now experiencing the pain they have since been able to overcome.

 

Imagine that?

[Spark1111]

Who is giving false hope?

 

It was the hardest thing I have ever done and have stated so repeatedly.

 

It wouldn't have been done unless he was willing to change. Or I able to find forgiveness in my heart.

 

If you cannot forgive, you have to divorce or you will turn into a bitter, resentful, joyless person.

 

If he could not or would not do the heavy lifting necessary we would not be here. There were many variables that had to exist, and much work we both had to be motivated to do to be here.

 

I'm with Owl, and Silk and Pheonix Rising and Snowflower and Anne 1707 and thomasb....it can be done....

 

IF BOTH people want it to.

[silktricks]

Unfortunately there is a self-reporting/subjectivity problem, maybe it's part of the whole "denial" thing Kane was talking about. .

 

I have no way of checking your posting history beyond 500 posts nor do I have the time, and so I have no way of verifying what "6+" years of recovery actually means to you.

Why, if you recovered your marriage do you so much want to cast doubt upon or denigrate others. Do you want to feel special or better in some way? Or do you wish you hadn't made the choice to stay? Do you say you've recovered but really have not?

 

 

That's why I've repeatedly expressed the opinion that, taken at the literal value of his words as he expressed them, he's wrong. So what? The more important issue is whether there are a significant number of meaningful exceptions to what Kane is saying.

no, that's what you've tried to change the issue to. That's not the issue. The issue is that there are SOME. And that owl, spark, snowflower and myself are some of that number. Kane's assertion is that it is impossible. It's not. It's possible.

And, if there are exceptions, in what situations will they be found?

and that is not possible to isolate as people are different.

 

There's no point in hoping for recovery from sexual infidelity based on Owl's situation, which was a purely emotional affair

yet some experts say that EAs are much MORE difficult to recover from.

And as snowflower's shows, even as much as two years out, that's not enough time to declare "successful reconciliation."

the fact that they had a setback does not denigrate nor invalidate their recovery.

Thomasb's posts indicates that it took around seven years to recover.

for them. For us it took about 5

 

 

 

 

O.K. which situations are most conducive to recovery? Kane is writing (I guess) as a betrayed male, as is Owl. Any examples here of wayward wives where there has been a successful recovery from her affair, at least a few years out?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I tend to agree with your & reboot's logic that people who successfully recover don't tend to stick around and post after a while. But that would suggest that anyone who does stick around and post for more than a few years is NOT successfully recovered. So I'm not sure what that observation leaves us with.

you have very poor logic. One does not in any way imply the other.

 

 

You've been around for about six years so can you at least give some kind of ballpark estimate of what percentage of people who post, say more than 100 posts here, end up being successfully recovered? 5%? 10%? 20%?

no clue. Keeping track of that isn't why I come here

 

 

 

 

I did react to Kane. I told him he was wrong.

BS. When owl reacted, you said he struck a chord. Though originally you implied healing could take place, you then rejected what you had earlier stated. Then of course you told the people who reacted that they had no sense of humor.

You seem to have an "agenda". Wanna spell it out?

[thomasb]

I don't feel it's "compassionate" to provide people with inaccurate information or give them false hope for the chances of a successful recovery from infidelity, depending on their situation. That just prolongs their pain. Judging from what I have read on LS, most betrayed men, such as Kane and Owl, would have a very difficult if not impossible task to reconcile from their wife's sexual infidelity. Female BS, such as yourself, perhaps somewhat less so, and as proven by thomasb's ability to recover his marriage.

 

 

 

 

I QUOTE]

 

 

Stating that you cannot recover from infidelity is patently ridiculous. I'm living it and so are hundreds, no doubt thousands of people. Marriage is rather like being a doctor. Practice. It is hard work. You get out of it what you put into it.

And I see no reason to do gender typing as to who can recover. It depends on the people involved. Not whether they are male or female. I don't believe it hurts a man more than a woman if his wife cheats. Having held my wife as she puked from the pain of what I had to tell her proves otherwise. The only thing I've been through worse was my sons' death.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Unfortunately there is a self-reporting/subjectivity problem, maybe it's part of the whole "denial" thing Kane was talking about. But snowflower claimed to have been recovered for 2.5 years, which I initially took at face value. Then I double-checked what I could in her posting history (last 500 posts) only to learn that in actuality while her H's infidelity occurred 2.5 years ago, she was on the verge of separation and possible divorce as recently as this past September.

 

I have no way of checking your posting history beyond 500 posts nor do I have the time, and so I have no way of verifying what "6+" years of recovery actually means to you.

 

Garrgoil, you are one impressive man! You've been here on LS a mere 26 days or less, you've already chalked up a respectable tally of 186 posts while at the same time working tirelessly to "debunk" other posters' positions about their very own lives ... by reading 500 posts per debunkee.

 

Is this your full time job?

[Spark1111]

OK, Snowflowers setback did NOT have to do with infidelity. It had to do with her H making a decision for them that did not include her imput.

 

It had to do with he not taking into consideration her feelings on a very important matter, and in not setting strong enough boundaries, for him, her and the marriage.

 

He woke up, although SF does not need me defending her in any way, shape or form.

 

As a couple tries to heal from infidelity, the rules have changed. The infidelity changed those rules and the old one's no longer apply.

 

It is a new relationship, with new rules, new boundaries, and new respect, or it will not survive.

 

Yes, I was grieviously wronged by my H's infidelity. But at some point, through lots and lots of counseling and honest discussion with each other, the issues were his, not mine, not our marriage's.

 

So I had a choice. I could either embrace the wrongness of his actions and betrayal, lick my wounds, and be angry for the rest of my life, OR, i could come to a place of forgiveness and acceptance and move on.

 

For some, that is divorce. For others, it is reconciliation.

 

If I continued to be a "scorekeeper" which is understandable, I would never have found forgiveness in my heart.

 

I could be right for the rest of my life, but unhappy, because NOTHING justifies cheating.

 

Or, I could forgive him and move on with a better man and a better us.

 

Only you can decide what is in your heart and in which direction you will go.

[HappyAtLast]

As a man whose former wife cheated many years ago, I can honestly say that I no longer wanted or respected her. Looking back, something in me simply switched off.

[Snowflower]

Garrgoil, you are simply unreal. In my 2+ years of posting here, I have never encountered a poster such as you and that is not a compliment.

 

I leave to go attend my daughter's sporting event and OMG, I'm not on LS to defend myself and you have crapped on my situation.

 

Unbelievable.

 

Yes, my H and I separated for a time last September. No one knows that better than me and my husband. So what the h*ll is it to you? Really, what does it matter to YOU personally?

 

I know, I know, you'll say that I am misleading other posters.

 

I have a solid posting history here on LS. I have received very few infractions and I try to be kind, hence my signature line. How I am here is how I am IRL. My painful story is out here to be shared with anyone who cares to read it.

 

I try to help others here when I can. I like to participate in the discussions here. I have made some friends here.

 

You, on the other hand, are a new poster who just wants to just spew false assumptions without sharing any background of your own.

 

I am not going to even bother to explain why my H and I separated. It's none of your d*mn business. Thank you Spark, a million times for trying to defend me when I was away my computer.

 

I guess my reconciliation must be false then. So funny because I was just talking to my H on the phone as he was leaving work and he said that he loved me and would be home soon. Thank gawd!

 

I feel like crap now. You succeeded and I genuinely hope you're happy with yourself.

[Snowflower]

It just really hurts to see my own situation treated as some sort of "theory" and a way for Garrgoil to prove his point.

 

This is my life and my pain that was talked about.

[thomasb]

Thomas, I'm confused. When you came to LS less than a year ago, you stated that your affair was 12 years ago. And now you say 17? I know time flies fast, but not that fast.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2985340&postcount=114

 

Sorry, I meant to say been married 17 in a couple monthes. We were only a few years in when I cheated. My bad on both. Four years to be precise.

Edited May 26, 2011 by thomasb
my spelling, or typing is atrocious sometimes!

[thomasb]

 

 

I didn't say it was impossible. But, can you honestly say your marriage is better than it was before you cheated? That's what I thought we were discussing.

 

 

Well I am very sorry that you put your wife through all that agony but it obviously still emotionally impacts you and I am sure your wife. Owl denies that such memories "taint" the marriage. Your powerful recitation calls Owl's conclusion into question.

 

Yes, my marriage is wonderful. I love my wife with all my heart. And it isn't better now than before because there was nothing wrong with it at the time that I cheated. That was my deal, not hers. I was selfish. And no... our marriage is not tainted. If you met us today you would have no clue of the past turmoil.

[thomasb]

Your signature line is from Plato.

 

Here's another one from Plato:

 

“Truth is the beginning of every good thing, both in heaven and on earth; and he who would be blessed and happy should be from the first a partaker of truth, for then he can be trusted”

 

 

--Plato[/quote

 

That should be my signature line.

[silktricks]

I don't. That's why I was the first poster in this thread who actually stated that I thought it was possible to recover from infidelity.

and then you said that you were just - I believe you said "tying a bow on a bag of sh*t". And then proceeded to find fault with anyone who says they have recovered their marriage. So excuse me if I don't believe you.

I'm sorry if you consider it denigrating owl to point out that his wife's affair was emotional, not physical, and he would have booted her out with no chance whatsoever of recovery had it turned physical. I think that's very relevant because most of the more serious cases of infidelity involved physical affairs.

I felt you denigrated owl when you stated that obviously Kane struck a chord with Owl, or he wouldn't have reacted.

I also am sorry if you believe it was rude of me to point out that snowflower misrepresented the status of her recovery, claiming 2.5 years when in fact as recently as last Sept., she was on the verge of divorce. What that means is she's been in recovery for less than a year and that too may turn out to be a false recovery.

snowflower's issue in September of last year didn't have anything to do with their prior problems. It was a separate thing altogether. Recovering a marriage does not mean there will not be further problems.

But none of that is my fault--it's just what is.

fault?

 

Is what is? No. Isn't what is, is more like it.

 

 

No unlike many others here I am not seeking personal validation for any of my relationship choices.

no you aren't. You are seeking impersonal devaluation of other people's choices. You are seeking to invalidate other people's life choices by either stating or implying that the things they say about their own lives are not true. And then implying again, when others react that we are "seeking validation". For most of us, that couldn't be further from the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

Owl's wife did not have a sexual affair. He has admitted on some other thread somewhere that had she so much as left to go meet with her OM, there would be no chance given for recovery. That attitude is WAY harsher than most other people posting at LS.

 

Snowflower was untruthful about the true status of her recovery and her relationship. She claimed 2.5 years of recovery when that turned out to be untrue.

you act like you are the god who gets to be the arbiter of what's "real".

Spark I assume is truthful, but she is awfully defensive; as are you.

judgmental much?

However if you are endorsing what snowflower did then it causes me to question your respect for the truth.

she's 2.5 years out from DDay. The fact that you don't see that entire time as recovery doesn't change it for her.

 

 

 

And I was the first person to say that it is not impossible in this thread. And have repeated it several times. I am trying to find out when it is possible, and under what circumstances.

saying something and than spending the rest of a thread attempting to cast doubt on people who have actually done it shows that your words of "tying a bow on a sack of sh*t" were how you truly felt.

 

And has been stated: you cannot measure the unmeasurable. What I can do in X circumstance doesn't mean anything for anyone else. It only means it's possible. It doesn't mean there is a cookie cutter solution, as there is not.

 

If you are talking about snowflower, it wasn't just a "setback," she clearly said back in September that she was contemplating separation and possibly divorce. If it takes about 5 years then it's premature to regard spark's marriage as having fully recovered.

most experts say 2-4 years. It was longer for me

 

 

 

 

No I am very logical.

no, you ATTEMPT to be very logical. Unfortunately, you do not seem to understand the difference between causation and correlation. Nor do you seem to understand fairly simplistic if/then logic streams. You like to nitpick, but that's not logic either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have never rejected what I originally said, why would I, since I consider myself a successful example of recovery?

hmmm I wonder why I have such a hard time believing that?

 

They don't, unless you define "sense of humor" as ganging up on someone you disagree with and insulting them.

. Ahhhhh YOU were the insulted one?

 

 

 

T-H-E--T-R-U-T-H

 

Make that YOUR truth. And of course anyone who disagrees with you iS lying, right?

 

Now. I'm done. Y'all have a good life finding fault with people on the internet

[Wandaland]

This question, I think only XOM can answer. He said he felt like she took him for granted, but when I saw them on their forum together they did not seem that way at all. His gf from my point of view seemed very innocent, sweet, loving, and very concerned for him. He was a liar, but at no shock to me. Affairs are based on lies and deception. I do feel sorry for her and angry at him for doing that to her and angry at myself for my horrible choices. The whole thing sucks all the way around. I wish I would have come to LS or even another infidelity site after I discovered my H's A's before I acted so hastily in evening the score. I have learned so much about affairs.

 

Well the important thing is that it's all behind you now and it seems like you're doing very well. A lot of people make bad choices in life, but they learn from it and move on. Going through the difficult times and overcoming it makes them stronger people. So you should be proud of yourself.

 

I remember when you said that your xOM broke up with you because he doesn't want to be a liar. Haha. Did you tell him that he's already a liar? The way you describe him makes him seem very immature, like he still thinks he's in high school. Is he that type of a guy?

[StoneCold]

Any person who has any decency, integrity and a concience! Are you saying you don't have those attributes?

 

 

I didnt know you were the "authority" on these matters

 

[thomasb]

Experience is the best teacher.

[thomasb]

silktricks, your posting history (at least a couple of threads from last year) actually indicates your current marriage is your second, not your first, which did not recover from your infidelity. This post of yours is from Aug. 27, 2010:

 

So right now you are batting .500. Unless you were only an OW between marriages, which is unclear from the above post.

 

However, your background as both a BS and a WS or OW, whichever it was, is relevant to your viewpoint, and should have been disclosed.

 

Edit: Also, do you know if the marriages of any of the MM you cheated with while you were an OW successfully recovered from your affairs with them? Did your first marriage end because of infidelity on the part of either you or your then-spouse? If not infidelity, why did it end?

 

You seem to be attacking well established members of this board. Why? Owl and Silktricks are posters who really try to help people. What is your intent to try undermining them?

[thomasb]

Come on... it has become quite obvious there is an agenda...

[thomasb]

You have been answered... then called every person who answered a liar. I for one am done. See you in the funny papers. Wife is home, better things to do.

[StoneCold]

Experience is the best teacher.

 

Right...your experience as far as you are concerned

[carhill]

IME, infidelity isn't a good thing. BTDT, not a good thing. Lizzie might have glamorized it with her cleavage canyon avatars, but the reality is pain and often economic and emotional bankruptcy. I would avoid it at all costs.

[OldOnTheInside]

IME, infidelity isn't a good thing. BTDT, not a good thing. Lizzie might have glamorized it with her cleavage canyon avatars, but the reality is pain and often economic and emotional bankruptcy. I would avoid it at all costs.

 

Straight and to the point. High risks and minimal benefit, generally speaking.

[Spark1111]

Your signature line is from Plato.

 

Here's another one from Plato:

 

“Truth is the beginning of every good thing, both in heaven and on earth; and he who would be blessed and happy should be from the first a partaker of truth, for then he can be trusted”

 

 

--Plato

 

That's it! Gargoil is the truth police and this is the inquisition!

 

We can't be happily reconciled!

 

We must be lying, to both ourselves and to other posters! We are to be discredited as liars and giving false promises that it can be done!

 

We are fakes and liars! Why? Gargoil says it is impossible to happily reconcile and the all-knowing Gargoil must know!

 

I do not know who you are or what your story is....and frankly my dear or sir, I don't give a damn!

 

You are a person who NEEDS to be right, at any and all costs, and your misery speaks volumes, just volumes.

 

Don't know your story, but it is not to heal or help.

 

It is to nit pick and pull apart and to denigrate, accuse and divide, all in the name of what?

 

Being right?

 

hahahahahaha! Bet you have NO friends. Bet your story is a lie. Bet you could not reconcile, are miserable, and are made more so by those of us who have.

 

You are the big lie on this thread.

 

What IS your story Gargoil? Don't bother to disclose it. I would never believe it anyway.

 

You have not one ounce of humility, which says to me you haven't experienced five minutes or relational pain, probably because you have never had anything resembling a relationship.

 

You are attacking, unkind, and unreasonable.

 

What are YOU doing here????

[seren]

I fail to see how anyone can constantly tell others that their reality is not so simply based on their experiences. If the purpose of this board is to offer support and share experiences and concerns about Infidelity, then I don't see how the way this thread has panned out meets the purpose.

 

Hypotheical or even academic debates about affairs surely have no place on a support board, given that many who come here are here to look for answers or support. It has been repeatedly said on LS that no one really knows another posters reality, so we have to take what is being said as fact.

 

I am sure that in the early stages of the knowing about an A there is denial, but anyone who has taken the road to reconcile will know that denial can only last so long and that it will be once the couple involved have reconciled to their satisfaction that denial no longer becomes a comfort blanket. I have no fears about the A, it was by staring the facts in the face, dealing with my reaction and feelings about those facts that allowed us to move forward. To be told I am in denial is simply not so, what is there to deny?

 

Infidelity is not a good thing, of course it isn't. I can see that without H's A that we might not have reached the point where we were forced into looking at our marriage, warts and all and realising how close we came to losing us. But, I will never know if the threat of a divorce might not have achieved the same thing, namely a looking at what we were in danger of losing and making the same changes that we have done.

 

No one should feel they have to justify why they feel their marrage is in a better place and be accused of being in denial, it is their reality and experience that matters. So, for the person who believes that reconciliation must mean that the BS is in denial, then possibly they need to look at what experience in their lives has formed this opinion.

 

If people come here with an agenda then they too need to look at why this is and if their posts trigger another poster, I hope that the rest can just carry on with what has always happened and find support from those without an agenda.

 

If what me and H have isn't a happy reconciled marriage and if it means I am in a fog of denial, then it works for us and long may it continue.

[donnamaybe]

That's it! Gargoil is the truth police and this is the inquisition!

 

We can't be happily reconciled!

 

We must be lying, to both ourselves and to other posters! We are to be discredited as liars and giving false promises that it can be done!

 

We are fakes and liars! Why? Gargoil says it is impossible to happily reconcile and the all-knowing Gargoil must know!

 

I do not know who you are or what your story is....and frankly my dear or sir, I don't give a damn!

 

You are a person who NEEDS to be right, at any and all costs, and your misery speaks volumes, just volumes.

 

Don't know your story, but it is not to heal or help.

 

It is to nit pick and pull apart and to denigrate, accuse and divide, all in the name of what?

 

Being right?

 

hahahahahaha! Bet you have NO friends. Bet your story is a lie. Bet you could not reconcile, are miserable, and are made more so by those of us who have.

 

You are the big lie on this thread.

 

What IS your story Gargoil? Don't bother to disclose it. I would never believe it anyway.

 

You have not one ounce of humility, which says to me you haven't experienced five minutes or relational pain, probably because you have never had anything resembling a relationship.

 

You are attacking, unkind, and unreasonable.

 

What are YOU doing here????

Oooo, Spark! Every phrase a truth, girlfriend. Every one. YOU ROCK!