carhill Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 It's interesting what a large role socialization and society play in our perceptions of what is masculine and feminine. I was watching a clip last night of Fred Schneider (B52s) dancing away while performing and it got me to thinking about how gay men can express themselves with such uniqueness along a whole continuum of style versus straight men who are constrained to a narrow path lest they become 'feminine'. It's interesting how the world works. OP, get out and experience the world. Chicago's a great town but it's a big world out there, full of people you can not only meet but connect with.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 24, 2011 Author Posted May 24, 2011 @Dust I am into girls and guys. Some transgender Male to female are only into girls, about half actually. Don't confuse what I am with being gay. Plenty of gay people have the same confusions you do about people like me. @lies I wouldn't even say the majority. The majority of people I encounter and tell my situation to react with curiosity. That goes from the mosque I pray at to the school I study at. Very little revulsion. The people who have a problem with people like me are always those who find us sexually attractive. Every year world wide at least 100 known and nameable transgender people are killed usually in situations where they were sexually involved with a person. The other person just could not handel the idea that they were attracted to one such as me. @Those who keep harping on the "genius" and isolation thing. I have already told you I DON'T DO ANYTHING TO ISOLATE MYSELF. Perhaps some people are put off by the idea that someone like me a "confused" tranny would tell them how the universe works. Well those people be they laypeople or PhD's can go **** themselves for all I care.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 24, 2011 Author Posted May 24, 2011 It's interesting what a large role socialization and society play in our perceptions of what is masculine and feminine. I was watching a clip last night of Fred Schneider (B52s) dancing away while performing and it got me to thinking about how gay men can express themselves with such uniqueness along a whole continuum of style versus straight men who are constrained to a narrow path lest they become 'feminine'. It's interesting how the world works. Yes here in America straight men have been painted into a little corner. It's like to be percieved as straight all you can do is communicate through grunts and farts. Even Tim the tool man Taylor would be too feminine and metrosexual for some people these days....basically for keeping his hair combed. OP, get out and experience the world. Chicago's a great town but it's a big world out there, full of people you can not only meet but connect with. I keep trying and trying. It's hard sometimes. This last week it was feeling like I have met practically everyone here at least once. I mean when your running into people you know or who know of you on the street.
utterer of lies Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I wouldn't even say the majority. The majority of people I encounter and tell my situation to react with curiosity. That goes from the mosque I pray at to the school I study at. Very little revulsion. Oh, I was unclear - I didn't mean in general, but in a sexual context. I have no problem with gays or transgender people as friends, but the thought of kissing them, or more....yuck. The people who have a problem with people like me are always those who find us sexually attractive. That reminds me of that study where it was shown that most men who strongly identify with anti-gay sentiments actually get a hard-on when watching gay porn. Every year world wide at least 100 known and nameable transgender people are killed usually in situations where they were sexually involved with a person. The other person just could not handel the idea that they were attracted to one such as me. Well, lots and lots of people are killed for a variety of reasons. You also brought this up when we were discussing race. I get the impression you might suffer from victim complex...
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I get the impression you might suffer from victim complex... I get that impression too.
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Here is a quote from you that illustrates well how your attitude does isolate you: Some of us are just so singularly unique that no one can really relate to us on a human level. Not to the extent that is needed for an intimate relationship. There are drawbacks to being what I am and doing what I do. It's no wonder that the wizards of our fairy tales always live alone. For what am I but the modern equivalent? You also communicate that you consider yourself superior to others. Often. Deny, argue all you like, but I promise you that herein lies your problem. If you could just forget about how goshdarn special you think you are and humbly look for the commonalities between yourself and other humans, you would not be in such a quandary. I do understand why you might choose to keep these walls up, and I do sympathize with that. But if you want to be close with other people, you'll have to admit that there are millions of other people as unique, as smart, as "wizard-like" as you are, and commune with them as equals. You're just a person, MrLonelyOne. Like the rest of us.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 24, 2011 Author Posted May 24, 2011 I disregard what you say related to the above because what you call my telling people I am superior comprises simply telling people what I do for a living. I am a theoretical cosmologist. If that simple statement of a basic biographical fact makes you think I am saying I am superior that cannot be helped. Perhaps you and those who think like you should search for why you are so insecure that you need "freaks" like me to be self depricating.
carhill Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Yes, those people choose to ascribe certain parameters to your existence from simple statements you make, like your chosen profession, or your transgender process, or your gender identity, or your sexual preference. Their perspective says a lot about them and whether or not they are compatible people to entertain as potentials in your life. The more 'unique' you are, the more potentials which will be necessarily excluded. Therefore, a larger sample size is required to achieve meaningful results, hence my advice prior
Kamille Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I think about a month ago, you started a thread where you wondered why you seemed to attract a certain kind of people. To me, the answer to that question is linked to the answer to this question. You consistently identify with underdogs, as seen here on these boards, and also consistently tend to treat the posters you identify as being mainstream with "let me tell you how it is" "you can't possibly understand" contempt (this, in spite of the fact you know very little about our pasts). Switch it up: try to find common ground with people who have healthy attitudes about life. See where it takes you. Life doesn't have to be a constant combat against the mainstream. ps: I do note that in your OP you asked for suggestions, which is why I ventured one. Of course, you are free to disregard it.
utterer of lies Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I disregard what you say related to the above because what you call my telling people I am superior comprises simply telling people what I do for a living. I am a theoretical cosmologist. If that simple statement of a basic biographical fact makes you think I am saying I am superior that cannot be helped. You are so incredibly full of yourself. Is this a depression-induced defense reaction? Perhaps you and those who think like you should search for why you are so insecure that you need "freaks" like me to be self depricating. I really hope that you will realize one day how you come across when you write things like above post.
OliveOyl Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 This is as much a question as it is a rant. I have tried all of the usual advice so I need some unusual advice. My problem it seems is as a transman (female to male) put it at an event last week. I have tried all manner of social events, meet ups, outings, looking at my school (90% of the people there are off limits for ethical reasons.). I have tried limiting myself to other scientist. I have tried broadening myself to musicians. I have tired tried and tried trying to the hilt. I have tried behaving in a more heteronormative way. I have tried behaving in a more homonormative way. I have tried not trying. Can anyone give me a truly unique piece of advice something new I can try? The obvious answer why it's hard for you to meet people is that you are a double (triple?) minority. It's hard for "average" people to meet people they feel compatible with... you can see posters bemoaning this fact all over the board. It's just going to be "harder" in your case. However the perception of "hard" or "easy" is a strange one, because as soon as you meet one person who you are compatible with, then at least for a while it's a non-issue (unless you are talking about meeting others for friendships in general) and it suddenly seems "easy." That's why I like to say all it takes is one. I think you should focus on the transgender communities more so than any other communities because that defines you in a way that is more unique than your other characteristics. For example if an Asian gay athlete came looking for advice on how to meet someone, it would seem to make the most sense for him to look in the gay community, not as much Asian communities or athletic communities, although these could still be helpful. Do you have other transgendered friends or acquaintances who are in happy relationships, and if so, do you know how they met?
Dust Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 The basic answer to your question “why is it hard for me to meet people” is because you are both a scientist and a tranny. I think the solution is to keep trying yet to do it with a different attitude. Enjoy trying that way you win no matter what.
Kamille Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Are all your fellow scientists also single? What about your transvestite friends? What about trying to identify how the involved ones found partners in spite of the challenges being a scientist or a transvestite caused?
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I disregard what you say related to the above because what you call my telling people I am superior comprises simply telling people what I do for a living. You generally disregard what anyone says if it does not precisely support what YOU say. It was more the Some of us are just so singularly unique that no one can really relate to us on a human level than the I am a theoretical cosmologist. that exemplifies your sense of superiority, which is thick in many of your posts. If that simple statement of a basic biographical fact makes you think I am saying I am superior that cannot be helped. Well, that simple statement wasn't even included in the quote that I posted; I was not responding to or addressing it in any way. But, since you bring it up - You might recall that I took issue with you in the past when you were posting about how your "genius" IQ and your profession made it impossible for you to talk to anyone, and for others to deal with you. Lots of us did. You could be employed as a "theoretical cosmologist" (though I thought I read in one of your other threads that you have not earned your MS), and maybe you are a genius. You don't use language or express views here on LS, however, that in any way set you above or beyond the intellectually average. It's likely that you communicate like this in daily life, rather than oozing theoretical cosmology. I understand that the subtle nuances of theoretical cosmology (personally, I'd prefer theoretical cosmetology , but to each his / her / hus own) may not relate in anyway to common everyday discourse. My point is this: since your language use and subject matter are not lofty, there is no reason that your profession should alienate anyone. Perhaps you and those who think like you should search for why you are so insecure that you need "freaks" like me to be self depricating. Haha! If only you knew! I don't think that "freaks" or anyone else need to be self deprecating. Humility, on the other hand, I find to be an extremely attractive trait in everyone, most especially those who are particularly blessed or gifted in any way. And it goes a long way towards forging connections and deep bonds with others. Really.
betterdeal Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 It's hard for you to connect with people because you are very scared and choose to avoid connecting with people as a defence mechanism, not because you're some form of Ubermenschen.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 Those of you who keep harping on the notiong that I think I am superior need to get over it. I don't think I am superior. It's probably what Olive Oyl and Dust have said. I am a multiple minority. People choose mates in part as a way of reinforcing aspects of their own identity. i.e. People in the same industry dating. Women wanting a masculine man to reflect on their feminiity and vice versa. People of the same race or who resemble eachother in other ways dating eachother....as a way of affirming that they themselves are attractive. As for other scientist who are involved yes many of them are. As for other trans who are involved yes many of them are. I don't know many many trans who are also scientist. The few I know of.... have had pretty much the same experience I had. Meaningless flings are easy to come by.... someone who is more than just curious feels harder to come by than it likely is for other people.
welikeincrowds Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 People choose mates in part as a way of reinforcing aspects of their own identity. i.e. People in the same industry dating. Maybe that's true -- and it is a curious correlation, isn't it -- but I don't think it's often the most significant reason, if it is ever a reason. mrlonelyone, you must not dismiss the power of propinquity. From what you've written in this thread, there appear to be many ways in which you are not in proximity to others. That is your problem and ultimately what you need to address, be it in its figurative or literal sense (hopefully both).
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 @welikeincrowds. That is a really intersting statement. You clearly see that there is more than one kind of "proximity". A person can be surrounded by millions but due to state of mind or whatever be a million miles from everyone (and vice versa). However is that not true of everyone to some extent? I socialize mainly with my classmates and colleagues at the university. Yes I do consciously keep a distance from the undergraduates since much like "OneGoal" s teacher I could not date them. How is that so different from most people who spend most of their time at work or at home? ___________ Thanks for saying it plainly Carhill. Standing out from the crowd means walking alone. That is the trade off I guess. __________ utterer of lies. I take it you are being sarcastic. I am so full of myself for stating what it is I do. ______________ Better deal I am not scared I reach out to people all the time. I just don't take kindly to people telling me I am full of myself for stating what I do. Because I am not. Other people talk about all aspects of their lives here why not me? --------- Not directed at anyone Anyone who thinks I need to be self depricating about what I do can go straight to hell. I have worked God dammed hard all my life to get what I have and I'll Dammed sure be proud of it. That is the right of anyone who puts in the work. I am no exception. Accept that I am you equal and suddenly I dont seem so full of it.
betterdeal Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) I am not scared I reach out to people all the time. Then other people are scared to reach out to you. I just don't take kindly to people telling me I am full of myself for stating what I do. Because I am not. Other people talk about all aspects of their lives here why not me? I got the impression from the way you write that you feel superior to people. Maybe other people do too, hence they fear you. Anyone who thinks I need to be self depricating about what I do can go straight to hell. I have worked God dammed hard all my life to get what I have and I'll Dammed sure be proud of it. That is the right of anyone who puts in the work. I am no exception. Accept that I am you equal and suddenly I dont seem so full of it. This statement of yours gives me the impression you think other people don't put the work in. Everyone puts in the work. It's called "living" and we all do the best we can with the resources we're given. Edited May 25, 2011 by betterdeal
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 Better deal Not everyone puts the work in for what they have. Some people win the lottery some people are born into wealth. They did not put the work in. The last time I checked an educational degree is something that must be earned and I earned it. A job is something that must be done and I do it. So yes I am proud. Arrogance is unearned pride ... I have earned it.
FlowerGirly Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 This is as much a question as it is a rant. I have tried all of the usual advice so I need some unusual advice. My problem it seems is as a transman (female to male) put it at an event last week. "Who can we date? Straight men and women worry that liking us makes them gay, gay men and women worry that liking us makes them straight." I would add.... plenty of people look at folks like me as perhaps matterial for a fling or "adventure" without any regard for our feelings. I know some transwomen (male to female) who have pretty much gave up on "love" and just get their sexual needs met through selling it. "Since men use use for their kinks anyway we might as well use them." The same goes for my race as well. Black people and Amerindian alike have this phenomena where someone may think of a tryst with one of us as merely something to check off their list. I have tried all manner of social events, meet ups, outings, looking at my school (90% of the people there are off limits for ethical reasons.). I have tried limiting myself to other scientist. I have tried broadening myself to musicians. I have tired tried and tried trying to the hilt. I have tried behaving in a more heteronormative way. I have tried behaving in a more homonormative way. I have tried not trying. Can anyone give me a truly unique piece of advice something new I can try? I think you should stick to "alternative" lifestyle events. People more like you are much more willing to accept you and have things in common.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 The thing is "alternative" lifestyle... by which I think you mean gay or lesbian people have the same issues with transgender people that straight folks do. Thanks for trying though.
FlowerGirly Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 The thing is "alternative" lifestyle... by which I think you mean gay or lesbian people have the same issues with transgender people that straight folks do. Thanks for trying though. Ok and the problem with that? You have something in common with them and better understand one another.
betterdeal Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Better deal Not everyone puts the work in for what they have. Some people win the lottery some people are born into wealth. They did not put the work in. The last time I checked an educational degree is something that must be earned and I earned it. A job is something that must be done and I do it. So yes I am proud. Arrogance is unearned pride ... I have earned it. Oh right. Time for me to unsubscribe.
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Better deal Not everyone puts the work in for what they have. Some people win the lottery some people are born into wealth. They did not put the work in. Yes, but a small enough number of people fall into those categories that I don't understand why anyone, especially not a person with such a scientific mind as you claim to have, would include such an insignificant anecdote as evidence to support anything. Most of the rest of us who have anything going for us, whether academically, creatively, materially, in the world of work or relationally, whatever, HAVE "put the work in." As you have. The last time I checked an educational degree is something that must be earned and I earned it. A job is something that must be done and I do it. So yes I am proud. Arrogance is unearned pride ... I have earned it. You have your Bachelor's degree. That's an accomplishment to be proud of; one that you share with many of us here on LS as well as out there. I think you are working on your Masters; is that correct? Many others have walked down that path as well, some of us to completion, and some not. Some have gone farther. I also want to point out that for SOME individuals, graduating from high school would take more effort and be a more profound achievement than earning a BS in physics would be for someone else. They are just as deserving of praise, recognition, and pride in themselves, if not more so. You are in a great deal of good company academically. Most of that company had to work for their achievements. My point is not to belittle your accomplishments, but to illustrate that they do not really set you apart from other people. And, your assertion at the beginning of that post (essentially saying that "other people don't work hard for what they have like I do") once again expresses an attitude of superiority. I believe that this is a defense mechanism. Though I have a great deal of compassion and understanding for the difficulties you must have faced so far in your life with your uniqueness gender-wise (my compassion doesn't extend to your assertions that your race and brain keep you apart, though - I don't believe that they do unless you let them all by yourself), that doesn't change the fact that your attitude of superiority and chronic "specialness" is not attractive to other people. There's one part of the answer to your initial question. What do you have in common with other people? What can you learn from other people? What do other people have and do that would benefit your life if YOU could have and do those things? What can you offer to share with other people? What kind of help can you give, and what kind of help do you need to ask for? Humility and modesty are wonderful traits, especially in those unusually gifted in any way. Pride can coexist with humbleness. That's my belief, and it doesn't have anything to do with whether a person is a "freak" or what color or kind of skin & genitals they have.
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