donnamaybe Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 So the consensus is basically that women would accept it under their terms and if it suits them, but not because they are being tolerant or inviting a stay-at-home dad. What difference why? And isn't the bolded how we approach nearly every important life decision? I would hope so.
Els Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Where did I say my mother was the only one doing all that? My father helped all he could also and the kids when we got older did our share of housework. I merely said that my mother was a good mother and a good wife despite being career woman. I didnt say she did all the works by herself. And by the way, Im not talking about parents who take one or two years off. Im talking about people who actually aspire to just be a stay at home parent and look for potential partners based on their earning power so they can expect to leech off them for the rest of their lives. I was actually quoting CE's post which you agreed with without pointing out the discrepancy. Not quoting what you said about your mother. Well, I hope you got your answer out of this thread anyway. Namely, that a large proportion of women would be willing to support a SAHD. It seems, however, that some men here consider it demeaning and mangina-ish to be a SAHD and think that childcare should be the woman's job, so the point is moot. Can't support a SAHD who doesn't want to be one.
sanskrit Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 For many men, the stigma is in the "staying at home" and "taking care of kids" parts. If there were no children, I certainly wouldn't mind having a working wife if I wasn't working. I wouldn't stay at home though, but would get out and go to the cigar store, play gin at the club and cruise chicks at the mall.
donnamaybe Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Im talking about people who actually aspire to just be a stay at home parent and look for potential partners based on their earning power so they can expect to leech off them for the rest of their lives. Is that how men view women who are stay at home moms?
FlowerGirly Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 If you think being a stay at home spouse is such an honorable responsibility equal to being a breadwinner, how many of you would by your own choice gladly be the breadwinner and support a stay at home husband? And how many of you are actually looking to find a man whom you plan to make a stay at home husband so you dont have to give up your own career? I really wanna see if women are just all talk or not. I wouldn't support it. Never.
Els Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 For many men, the stigma is in the "staying at home" and "taking care of kids" parts. If there were no children, I certainly wouldn't mind having a working wife if I wasn't working. I wouldn't stay at home though, but would get out and go to the cigar store, play gin at the club and cruise chicks at the mall. As I said 'It seems, however, that some men here consider it demeaning and mangina-ish to be a SAHD'. You're not an SAHD if you're not taking care of the kids. Nobody, male or female, would support a spouse to 'get out and go to the cigar store, play gin at the club and cruise chicks/dudes at the mall' all day long.
Eve Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I can only conclude that this thread has nothing to do with real life stay at home dads. Nope, just more bad karma.. from the male end of the 'bad karma crew' who currently reside here. Take care, Eve x
Els Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I can only conclude that this thread has nothing to do with real life stay at home dads. Nope, just more bad karma.. from the male end of the 'bad karma crew' who currently reside here. Take care, Eve x Yep, I agree. Funny thing is none of the males posting here have had experience actually being a SAHD or supporting a SAHM, compared to several women who have.
Untouchable_Fire Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 High income females will rarely tolerate a SAHD. Women who earn lots of money tend to have similar A type personalities. They can be very shallow and concerned with what others think of them. Have a husband that is stay at home looks terrible. I spent 3 months unemployed once... and my xW made it the worst 3 months of my life. Additionally she earned more than it did and constantly bitched about it. It's nearly a fact that if a woman becomes financially successful that her current relationship has only about a 16% chance of surviving long term. Additionally in my opinion women are much, much more likely to cheat on a stay at home father!
sanskrit Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Nobody, male or female, would support a spouse to 'get out and go to the cigar store, play gin at the club and cruise chicks/dudes at the mall' all day long. I know you got the joke, but are you kidding? Other than the cruising chicks/dudes part, that's the exact dynamic of a huge percentage of middle and upper middle class marriages, kids or no. If kids, there will be a fulltime nanny or maid, husband works 60-80 hrs. Not saying this is all the woman's fault, or anyone's fault, as lots of men still view a working wife as a sign of masculine weakness. She may have an easy 10-20 hr a week social job, or not, but almost never a real job. The board of the junior league, a realtor who sells 2 houses a year, or working in an upscale shop is not a "career." The problem arises when wives who are kept in this way poison other women in their social group into believing that this is a reasonable expectation of all marriages. Much of the problems that arise related to this thread topic are a result of women's tendencies to gloat within their social group about how much "Mr. Human Wallet" does for her and how little she does in return.
Author musemaj11 Posted May 26, 2011 Author Posted May 26, 2011 I know you got the joke, but are you kidding? Other than the cruising chicks/dudes part, that's the exact dynamic of a huge percentage of middle and upper middle class marriages, kids or no. If kids, there will be a fulltime nanny or maid, husband works 60-80 hrs. Not saying this is all the woman's fault, or anyone's fault, as lots of men still view a working wife as a sign of masculine weakness. She may have an easy 10-20 hr a week social job, or not, but almost never a real job. The board of the junior league, a realtor who sells 2 houses a year, or working in an upscale shop is not a "career." The problem arises when wives who are kept in this way poison other women in their social group into believing that this is a reasonable expectation of all marriages. Much of the problems that arise related to this thread topic are a result of women's tendencies to gloat within their social group about how much "Mr. Human Wallet" does for her and how little she does in return. Exactly, men dont gloat when their women do everything while they do nothing. In fact, they feel embarrassed. On the other hand, for women the less they have to do and the more their men do for them, the more pride they have. There are men who actually have the belief, "As long as my wife and kids are happy, Im happy." There are men with extreme chivalric personal conviction who believe in spoiling their wives the same way they spoil their children. They try their best to make their wives and children have the easiest life as possible at their expense. But how many women do that for men? How many women would slave away most of their lives just so their husbands and children can live a comfortable life?
Author musemaj11 Posted May 26, 2011 Author Posted May 26, 2011 Is that how men view women who are stay at home moms? Unfortunately not. Due to thousands of years of societal brainwashing, many if not most men still take pride in supporting a dependent woman because they have been taught that thats what they have to do as a man. However, these days more and more men are starting to have an epiphany and realize that they have been duped into believing that its their job to support women just like in the 70s women had an epiphany and realized that they had been duped into believing that they didnt deserve equal social rights as men.
thatone Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 I know you got the joke, but are you kidding? Other than the cruising chicks/dudes part, that's the exact dynamic of a huge percentage of middle and upper middle class marriages, kids or no. If kids, there will be a fulltime nanny or maid, husband works 60-80 hrs. Not saying this is all the woman's fault, or anyone's fault, as lots of men still view a working wife as a sign of masculine weakness. She may have an easy 10-20 hr a week social job, or not, but almost never a real job. The board of the junior league, a realtor who sells 2 houses a year, or working in an upscale shop is not a "career." The problem arises when wives who are kept in this way poison other women in their social group into believing that this is a reasonable expectation of all marriages. Much of the problems that arise related to this thread topic are a result of women's tendencies to gloat within their social group about how much "Mr. Human Wallet" does for her and how little she does in return. my brother is just as well off as i am financially. the only thing his wife does well is shop. and her latest toe dip into the job world when he complained about how much money she spends was? you guessed it, realtor. it's a great job for those women. their husbands pay for the gas, clothes, and car, they keep all the commissions minus advertising expense and can brag to their female friends about how successful they are.
Author musemaj11 Posted May 26, 2011 Author Posted May 26, 2011 my brother is just as well off as i am financially. the only thing his wife does well is shop. and her latest toe dip into the job world when he complained about how much money she spends was? you guessed it, realtor. it's a great job for those women. their husbands pay for the gas, clothes, and car, they keep all the commissions minus advertising expense and can brag to their female friends about how successful they are. Why didnt you talk some sense into him then? Although since he is married there is nothing he can do about it anyway unless he wants to give up half of his assets.
thatone Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) Why didnt you talk some sense into him then? Although since he is married there is nothing he can do about it anyway unless he wants to give up half of his assets. meh, we're not that close, never have been. we talk about football and basketball, that's really all we have in common. we also live in different states so i'm not around him that much. i only met her once or twice before their wedding. he's not entirely screwed, he had a house before they married and had quite a bit saved up before they were married, and the divorce laws in the state they live in are in his favor for assets he had before the marriage. as a wealthier man, even though i haven't been married, i'm not really scared of alimony. it's a drop in the bucket. yea i might lose a car and a few thousand bucks here and there for awhile if i were married and then divorced, but she wouldn't get back to the lifestyle she's accustomed to without a new husband, a boyfriend won't do. statistically, if you look at alimony payments by the IRS's numbers, it usually works out to about 10-20% of the husband's income. that's not all that much, get up a little earlier and pay more attention to the stock market, and i can knock out another 10-15% a year with little effort. the income brackets that have it worst for alimony are actually not the wealthier men. it's the middle class men. people who make 50-75k a year commonly get hit with 20% alimony payments because the base alimony figures courts work with are around 10-20k a year, on average. that's a pretty big chunk of such a man's income, and an obvious detriment to not only his lifestyle, but his ability to chase younger women . http://www.massalimonyreform.org/Statistics.html Edited May 26, 2011 by thatone
nordic Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 What an archaic way of looking at things. Like it or not, women have careers of their own now. Gone are the days where the man would presue a career and the woman would stay home and be a homemaker. Now-a-days things are more equal in this respect, like it or not this is how it is. It's not uncommon to find women who make more then men. Hell... my girlfriend makes thousands more than I do. mine too, more than 250k more in fact
Jazzari Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Exactly, men dont gloat when their women do everything while they do nothing. In fact, they feel embarrassed. On the other hand, for women the less they have to do and the more their men do for them, the more pride they have. There are men who actually have the belief, "As long as my wife and kids are happy, Im happy." There are men with extreme chivalric personal conviction who believe in spoiling their wives the same way they spoil their children. They try their best to make their wives and children have the easiest life as possible at their expense. But how many women do that for men? How many women would slave away most of their lives just so their husbands and children can live a comfortable life?You described a stay at home wife right there, lol! Not many people want to stay home to clean toilets, change dirty diapers, wash dishes, cook and all the other unpleasant chores. And for many, they are unappreciated or at best unacknowledged. There is no high five from co workers, no bonus for a good job, no rising up through the ranks. No gossip at the water cooler, no intelligent conversation, and no positive feedback. There are no new challenges to keep your mind occupied. Just the same dull, mindless chores day after day. Many women consider that slavery of a type. And because it doesn't bring in a paycheck, it is looked down upon and not valued. Other women sneer at the stay at home mom and often make her feel stupid and worthless. Many husbands take her for granted and its hard to compete with the pretty coworker who doesn't have baby drool running down her arm. My experience was different because my husband did value me and I was happy in my life. I'm the type of person that liked to keep house for my family. I loved raising my son and feel like that was a very valuable occupation. The amount of money I could make compared to my husband was ridiculously small. Supporting him by providing a loving home was so much more valuable in our lives. Yeah, the **** work sucks, but giving and loving is a payoff in its own right. And I was lucky enough to have someone that did appreciate me and gave me the intellectual stimulous that I needed. That makes all the difference in the world. And I did part time work from home on occasion - but that was for my own intellectual needs. Not for money. Stay at home wives give an enormous amount of care and comfort to their families. It's sad that the mighty dollar is considered to be worth more.
Els Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 *shrugs* It seems that all of the words the women here have spoken have been, exactly, 'blah blah blah' to the OP. Every single woman who says she would be willing to or has done it has been ignored. What's the point, really? It's like talking to a CD with a fixed track.
denise_xo Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 You described a stay at home wife right there, lol! Not many people want to stay home to clean toilets, change dirty diapers, wash dishes, cook and all the other unpleasant chores. And for many, they are unappreciated or at best unacknowledged. There is no high five from co workers, no bonus for a good job, no rising up through the ranks. No gossip at the water cooler, no intelligent conversation, and no positive feedback. There are no new challenges to keep your mind occupied. Just the same dull, mindless chores day after day. Many women consider that slavery of a type. And because it doesn't bring in a paycheck, it is looked down upon and not valued. Other women sneer at the stay at home mom and often make her feel stupid and worthless. Many husbands take her for granted and its hard to compete with the pretty coworker who doesn't have baby drool running down her arm. Stay at home wives give an enormous amount of care and comfort to their families. It's sad that the mighty dollar is considered to be worth more. Quoted for truth. Maybe we should start a thread asking how many men would like to spend twenty years changing divers, cleaning toilets and putting dinner on the table every day at 6pm.
Eve Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Yep, I agree. Funny thing is none of the males posting here have had experience actually being a SAHD or supporting a SAHM, compared to several women who have. I think it just shows a poor attitude overall towards women. Dressed up not very well at all. There were days I cried with boredom with being at home when the kids were little. It is really hard work to keep kids entertained, educated and gosh.. clean. Tell you what, it is easier going out to work. Over the years Hubby has been laid off a few times and NEVER during these periods managed to complete all the housework tasks, cook dinner and look sexy for me when I got home. He was as miserable as **** because it bothered him that he could not contribute to the household. Still, what little he did was good but taken within the lifestyle I had fashioned in the same situation - it was not even close to being ok. Thankfully he has learned over the years how to do better because the last thing I needed was another child on my hands. Nope, the male 'bad karma crew' here I feel idolise themselves but really there is no evidence being presented that they can manage a fully functioning woman. I think they are trying to forge a version akin to feminism, without understanding that attitudes such as theirs and years of oppression mean that most conscious women will walk away from them. Jazzari has it 100% right. Take care, Eve x
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Nope, the male 'bad karma crew' here I feel idolise themselves but really there is no evidence being presented that they can manage a fully functioning woman. I think they are trying to forge a version akin to feminism, without understanding that attitudes such as theirs and years of oppression mean that most conscious women will walk away from them. Take care, Eve x I agree with this 100%, and I truly find it appalling. I'm over 50 years old and I had NO IDEA of the prevalence of these types of attitudes towards women until I joined LoveShack fairly recently.
donnamaybe Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Unfortunately not. Due to thousands of years of societal brainwashing, many if not most men still take pride in supporting a dependent woman because they have been taught that thats what they have to do as a man. However, these days more and more men are starting to have an epiphany and realize that they have been duped into believing that its their job to support women just like in the 70s women had an epiphany and realized that they had been duped into believing that they didnt deserve equal social rights as men. Me likey!
RecordProducer Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 What difference why? And isn't the bolded how we approach nearly every important life decision? I would hope so. Yes, I agree, we women approach everything from a selfish perspective. I am surprised the world still calls us "nurturing." All we nurture is our own benefit.
donnamaybe Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Yes, I agree, we women approach everything from a selfish perspective. I am surprised the world still calls us "nurturing." All we nurture is our own benefit. Nope. We, meaning all PEOPLE, not just women, should approach everything from a "how is this going to affect my family and finances and life?" perspective. Apparently you missed the part where I said I would be the provider and let my man stay home if that worked best for our particular situation.
Author musemaj11 Posted May 26, 2011 Author Posted May 26, 2011 You described a stay at home wife right there, lol! Not many people want to stay home to clean toilets, change dirty diapers, wash dishes, cook and all the other unpleasant chores. And for many, they are unappreciated or at best unacknowledged. There is no high five from co workers, no bonus for a good job, no rising up through the ranks. No gossip at the water cooler, no intelligent conversation, and no positive feedback. There are no new challenges to keep your mind occupied. Just the same dull, mindless chores day after day. Many women consider that slavery of a type. And because it doesn't bring in a paycheck, it is looked down upon and not valued. Other women sneer at the stay at home mom and often make her feel stupid and worthless. Many husbands take her for granted and its hard to compete with the pretty coworker who doesn't have baby drool running down her arm. Where I live, house maids get paid minimum wage and there is a reason for that. The hardest part of being a stay at home parent is if there is a newborn baby in the picture while the rest are nothing. As a child I took care of much of the housework since my parents were busy working. And when I started driving I was also the one buying groceries. The only thing I didnt do was cooking. I could do doing laundry, buying groceries, cleaning the bathroom, and vacuuming in a few hours. Besides its not like you have to do all those things every single day. So sorry Im not buying all these, "OMG staying home is so hard!" Also in most traditional households where the wives only stays home, the husbands are the ones who mow the lawn, take out the trash, fix the plumbing, fix the cars, build the furniture their wives buy from IKEA, etc. As I said, I have no issue with people who take a couple years off to care for a newborn baby (although I prefer getting a nanny or a relative to do it). But staying home as a full time job for the rest of their lives? Pffftt. Get a real job. I agree with this 100%, and I truly find it appalling. I'm over 50 years old and I had NO IDEA of the prevalence of these types of attitudes towards women until I joined LoveShack fairly recently. Because you are over 50 years old.
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