Maybe women should dress more conservatively

[tigressA]

I was in my front yard pushing a mower. I had on long pants, long sleeved shirt, gloves, big straw hat and bug sunglasses. It never fails, some idiot is going to yell something inappropriate. I can be at a gas station and some jack wagon is going to "hey baby", "Umm, mmm, mmmy" or even " I pulled up at the right time". At none of these instances am I dressed in a way to advertise anything other than I am a human. Life ain't no damn beauty contest for a lot of us. We are beautiful without validation by some jerk who's only clue to any type of training is to yell, whistle, harass or in general show his brains leaking from his genitals.

 

Respect of others comes from self respect. If one feels that how someone is dressed is a signal to address them in such a disrespectful manner, it says more about the one whose lips are flapping in the wind than the one whose "bitties" are. These same people are the ones who probably pass by the homeless and yell, "you bum, get a job!" After all some of their clothes scream that they should be treated a certain way. And what about those conservatively dressed chicks? I am sure they deserve to be cheated on because their clothes should say they no little about sex or sexuality. I mean let's take it all the way. What does the clothes of a pregnant woman say about her? The guy at Arby's thought my maternity dress said, "lets have sex, you are already knocked up and you can't get pregnant by me." Sheesh! As my youngest would say "brain function is the gift that God gave and most people are too damn lazy to use it.":sick:

 

Thank you, Bent, for being one of the very few voices of reason in this thread. Shout-out to O'Malley for her awesome post as well.

 

My view: Wear whatever you want, jerkoffs will be jerkoffs no matter what. Once when I was walking to a relative's house--and it was late fall so I was dressed very modestly as to not freeze--I heard a car horn honk. The source of it was a guy I had seen around campus and he was whacking off, right there in his car. He had this smug look on his face like "Yeah, I'm looking at you, you want this?" I was so disgusted and angered. I have been catcalled and leered at too many times to recall since my teenage years, by young and old, cute and ugly, regardless of my attire--and every time I felt degraded. Guys who engage in that behavior and/or think they are entitled to do so typically show this women-are-a-piece-of-meat attitude in more than one way and get their comeuppance by failing to attract decent women.

[sanskrit]

People who report posts are schmucks! They can't argue their own points so they just report anonymous posters to anonymous owners of websites.

 

Agree, let's all just report spam, direct personal attacks, and obvious trolls, and simply ignore those with whom we don't agree. No one likes a tattle tale.

[Star Gazer]

ANYONE, male or female, who thinks that ANY woman who dresses provocatively DESERVES mistreatment of ANY KIND is messed up in the head. DONE.

[Star Gazer]

Star Gazer, you wouldn't last one month on another relationship forum.

 

You're wrong yet again. Good luck to you, dude.

[Els]

Women want to look good for the men they want to attract - NOT every man. The men who say we look good in sweat pants with no makeup are usually the guys we don't want. We want the best we can get, and it's not necessarily YOU who love us in sweat pants with no makeup.

 

Speak for yourself. Being attracted to a woman regardless of what she wears because he finds her beautiful inside is an immensely attractive quality in a guy, for me. :love:

[Woggle]

So if men are not allowed to notice an attractive woman how does anybody meet anybody in public? Is there a difference between simply showing interest and harrassment?

[Star Gazer]

So if men are not allowed to notice an attractive woman how does anybody meet anybody in public? Is there a difference between simply showing interest and harrassment?

 

Of course you can notice an attractive person. You can express interest and attraction in an obvious way, without being disrespectful.

 

"Hi, my name is Woggle. What's yours?" with a flirty smile is a lot different than "Hey, yo baby!! Nice tits!"

 

And common sense would suggest a guy will get a much more favorable response with the former than the latter. Right?

[sanskrit]

ANYONE, male or female, who thinks that ANY woman who dresses provocatively DESERVES mistreatment of ANY KIND is messed up in the head. DONE.

 

Define "mistreatment." Does making assumptions about her sexual habits rise to the level of mistreatment? Does being a bit more forward with her sexually, even still politely, rise to the level of mistreatment?

 

The "rape" comparison was unnecessary btw, and not true to boot.

[Star Gazer]

The "rape" comparison was unnecessary btw, and not true to boot.

 

You're stretching what I said, just like LITM.

 

We disagree. That's life.

[anne1707]

So if men are not allowed to notice an attractive woman how does anybody meet anybody in public? Is there a difference between simply showing interest and harrassment?

 

Very much so.

 

Woggle - you love your wife, she is a lady. Do you think in her single days, she would have liked to have some man shouting out to her in the street? Interest with appropriate boundaries and responding to the woman's reaction is one thing, upsetting and abusing is something else altogether.

[sanskrit]

We disagree. That's life.

 

Lemme know how that tactic works for you in negotiations and court

[betterdeal]

ANYONE, male or female, who thinks that ANY woman who dresses provocatively DESERVES mistreatment of ANY KIND is messed up in the head. DONE.

 

What is it about truisms? I'll try to explain the emptiness of this argument one more time:

 

Person A decides to provoke person B

Person B is provoked and responds aggressively to person A

 

This does not equate to

 

Person A wears a bikini

Person B demands sex from person B

[Woggle]

Very much so.

 

Woggle - you love your wife, she is a lady. Do you think in her single days, she would have liked to have some man shouting out to her in the street? Interest with appropriate boundaries and responding to the woman's reaction is one thing, upsetting and abusing is something else altogether.

 

Of course not but I did spot her by the beach and start chatting her up. WE are happily married now so obviously she liked it.

[Star Gazer]

Lemme know how that tactic works for you in negotiations and court

 

Neither one of us have any motivation to win here, guy. There's no arbiter of right and wrong on LS. There is no proposed order to submit. Thought you knew that.

[denise_xo]

Is there a difference between simply showing interest and harrassment?

 

Yes. Don't you think?

[anne1707]

Of course not but I did spot her by the beach and start chatting her up. WE are happily married now so obviously she liked it.

 

Hence you had boundaries and responded to her reactions appropriately

[denise_xo]

Of course not but I did spot her by the beach and start chatting her up. WE are happily married now so obviously she liked it.

 

Well, then you probably did so quite respectfully, otherwise I doubt she would have married you!

[tigressA]

Very much so.

 

Woggle - you love your wife, she is a lady. Do you think in her single days, she would have liked to have some man shouting out to her in the street? Interest with appropriate boundaries and responding to the woman's reaction is one thing, upsetting and abusing is something else altogether.

 

This is something I always liked to point out--catcallers typically shout at a woman from across a street or in passing if they're in a car. They're almost never brave enough to spew their crudeness while in close proximity.

[sanskrit]

Neither one of us have any motivation to win here, guy.

 

I do, the more I "win" the more I post, the more I win, positive reinforcement, and so easy to achieve here on LS. and no lives or googol amounts of money are at stake so it's like playing dime ante poker... gal

[fortyninethousand322]

What exactly is the point for either sex of wearing revealing clothing? Is it to show off one's great personality?

[Els]

Just chipping in while munching on my popcorn and enjoying the entertainment.

 

I think it's very interesting how people interpret one another on this thread. The women mostly seem to hear: "it's okay to do whatever we want to women if they dress sluttily" when a guy is actually saying "a woman in provocative attire is asking to be ogled at". And the guys probably think the women are saying "How we dress should have no bearing on how you act" when they actually mean, "You shouldn't pin all the responsibility for your actions on how we dress." The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, IMO.

 

I think we can all agree that no man is entitled to leer or catcall or otherwise harass a woman in any way no matter how she dresses, ie there is always something wrong with such behaviour, and the men who tend to do so certainly do not always restrict themselves to scantily-clad women as well. But, it is entirely dismissive of personal responsibility for a woman to say that she should be able to dress scantily and not receive any sort of negative reaction. People often cannot help but stare for a while, and the leering jerks will always exist, and if anyone is to be a target for their actions, it will most likely be those women. It is just illogical and silly to paint yourself a target and then complain that people are shooting at that target.

 

The most apt analogy I can think of is a guy with a really showy house and car with expensive furnishings, leaving his gate wide open and the car key in the ignition. Sure, theft is wrong no matter the circumstance, and no-one is entitled to take any of that from him. But is he 'asking for it'? Methinks yes. Sure, other guys who double lock their doors and have less showy houses get robbed too. But who is more likely to get robbed?

[sanskrit]

Great post, elswyth.

[betterdeal]

This is something I always liked to point out--catcallers typically shout at a woman from across a street or in passing if they're in a car. They're almost never brave enough to spew their crudeness while in close proximity.

 

Empty vessels make the most noise.

[denise_xo]

The most apt analogy I can think of is a guy with a really showy house and car with expensive furnishings, leaving his gate wide open and the car key in the ignition. Sure, theft is wrong no matter the circumstance, and no-one is entitled to take any of that from him. But is he 'asking for it'? Methinks yes. Sure, other guys who double lock their doors and have less showy houses get robbed too. But who is more likely to get robbed?

 

I question this analogy, partially due to the legal issues that I outlined in a previous post, and partially due to the long history of men seeking to control women by means of what they are allowed to wear and how they are allowed to act in public. The sociocultural and political history of women's dress is just entirely different from that of robbery, and that matters quite a lot for how such issues are interpreted and understood in the present, by both genders.

[Jazzari]

I was walking down the street last winter wearing 2 sweaters, a bulky mid length wool coat, a hat and flat boots.

 

And yeah. I got cat calls. Some guys don't care what you wear. If you're a female, you're going to get yelled at.

 

Dealing with this is a reality. So it's up to women to decide how they want to handle it and what their comfort level is.

 

I don't let it stop me from dressing in the latest styles - say skinny jeans and form fitting shirt. But I don't bare my cleavage or let my tushy hang out either. They both will probably get catcalls but the latter is a blatant invitation to be more aggressive (not physically - verbally).