Maybe women should dress more conservatively

[RecordProducer]

If women don't want to be looked at sexually or have men thinking, wanting, or talking about sex so much perhaps they should dress more conservatively. Doesn't common sense tell people that? Alot of women tell me they just want to look good and feel sexy because life is a beauty contest for women, but you can still look good without all the makeup and if you dress more conservatively.

Women want to look good for the men they want to attract - NOT every man. The men who say we look good in sweat pants with no makeup are usually the guys we don't want. We want the best we can get, and it's not necessarily YOU who love us in sweat pants with no makeup.

[Darren Taylor]

Well, I also find it offensive, uncalled for, and intolerable that women are called sluts based on what they wear - but that is something that has been argued for in this thread.

 

 

I never claimed that, defended that, or even insinuated that. SG included me in that comment comparing us to rapists. For someone that's been here since early 2005, she should know better.

[sanskrit]

That's right. If the guy's a hottie she'll love the attention; if creeps/unattractive dudes hit on her, she gets all bent out of shape.

 

Dingdingding, the real underlying issue of this thread is the hypocritical ways in which women's overt sexual displays in dress is done with a specific target audience in mind, and welcomed from those, yet if a man not in the target audience responds to it, he's a "creep," "catcaller," "immature," etc, and it's a matter for him to change his behavior in psychic anticipation of whether he is in the target market or not, or rather... just accept his "place" and change his behavior to accommodate his " betters."

 

BTW deconstructing this issue to "catcalling" is a bit of a straw man, as that is extreme outlier behavior. The catcalling construction worker is mostly a TV/movie fiction. Lived and walked for six years among thousands of construction sites in Manhattan with thousands of construction workers and thousands of attractive women walking by and never once witnessed a single catcall, am sure they happen, just not nearly as frequently as some would have us believe.

[Star Gazer]

I'm a woman and when I see somebody of the same sex wearing skimpy clothes I can't help but form a quick opinion, mostly a negative one, on her. She very well knows what kind of attention it gets her when she dresses like that. It's even worse when they start complaining to you why they always attract the wrong kind of attention.

 

It's a stereotype, you might think you are different but there's no way to beat it.

 

Yes, she likely shouldn't be surprised if she draws negative attention, but she does not DESERVE mistreatment.

[denise_xo]

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with finding someone attractive and going on your way, but *some* men are looking to intimidate women and will rationalize any excuse to justifiy their behavior. "This is what you deserve" is exactly the notion that those types subscribe to.

 

Whatever you think of someone's appearance, you're a real sh*t to comment upon it unsolicited. Everyone knowns catcallers aren't trying to be complimentary, they're just exercising what they feel to be their privilege in putting women in their place.

 

It's not unreasonable for people to go out in public and not expect to have sexual comments aimed at them, and I'm pretty sure that many of the defenders of that behavior on this thread have never regularly experienced this, the way many women have.

 

Amen.

 

[ten ch]

[sanskrit]

Women want to look good for the men they want to attract - NOT every man. The men who say we look good in sweat pants with no makeup are usually the guys we don't want. We want the best we can get, and it's not necessarily YOU who love us in sweat pants with no makeup.

 

Perfect. QED.

[Darren Taylor]

The rapists in "The Accused" felt the same exact way you do... that she deserved to be raped based on what she wore. You're no different.

 

 

And you still continue with the insults. I said all along that rape is inexcusable. To this very moment, you're insulting myself and other posters.

[betterdeal]

Huh? How is my view conservative?

 

Because if we disagree with your orthodoxy then we must fit into the box you have constructed for us.

 

Thinking a woman DESERVES mistreatment because of what she wears is disgusting. That's not a conservative view, that's an ethical view.

 

Another truism. No-one deserves mistreatment for anything. That's why it's called mis-treatment.

 

You agree that people are responsible for their own actions, yet you call me rapists for saying the same thing. You're sexist.

[denise_xo]

I never claimed that, defended that, or even insinuated that.

 

I was referring to post number 8. That's where the sentiment is made most explicit. But it underlies a lot of the thinking in the 'she asked for it' line of reasoning.

[Star Gazer]

Damn right she does.[deserves it]

 

...if you're dressing provactively, you deserve whatever attention you get.

 

A guy that gets cat called obviously deserves it if he's topless or wearing a tank top.

 

But when wearing revealing clothing, you deserve to get stares and cat calls.

 

Stow deserved to get clowned on. ... If you're wearing revealing, you will(and rightfully so) get cat called. That's perfectly legal and you're asking for it.

 

You deserved to get some verbal heat...

 

Cat call me all you want. If I'm topless or wearing a tank top, I deserve it though.

 

Deserve, deserve, deserve. You advocated for DESERVING mistreatment. Period.

 

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with finding someone attractive and going on your way, but *some* men are looking to intimidate women and will rationalize any excuse to justifiy their behavior. "This is what you deserve" is exactly the notion that those types subscribe to.

 

Whatever you think of someone's appearance, you're a real sh*t to comment upon it unsolicited. Everyone knowns catcallers aren't trying to be complimentary, they're just exercising what they feel to be their privilege in putting women in their place.

 

It's not unreasonable for people to go out in public and not expect to have sexual comments aimed at them, and I'm pretty sure that many of the defenders of that behavior on this thread have never regularly experienced this, the way many women have.

 

:love:

[RecordProducer]

Perfect. QED.

I don't know what QED means.

[Darren Taylor]

Deserve, deserve, deserve. You advocated for DESERVING mistreatment. Period.

 

 

Deserving treatment does not mean deserving to be raped. You stated that.

[Star Gazer]

And you still continue with the insults. I said all along that rape is inexcusable. To this very moment, you're insulting myself and other posters.

 

No, just you. You repeatedly said people DESERVE mistreatment based on what they wear. So perhaps it's just YOU that's thinks like a rapist.

 

My apologies to LITM, as he actually said no one DESERVES anything. Just you and somedude.

[betterdeal]

Yes, she likely shouldn't be surprised if she draws negative attention, but she does not DESERVE mistreatment.

 

More hollow rhetoric.

[Star Gazer]

[/b][/u]This is the false part of SG's argument. She seems to think that men who "notice" attractive women, are all rapists. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

I never said or insinuated that, what a crock. My focus has only been on whether a woman DESERVES mistreatment based on what she wears.

[RecordProducer]

I agree with Star Gazer's challenge, and think you should adress it, since you started the topic.What exactly is you point about how woman dress?

[Star Gazer]

I never claimed that, defended that, or even insinuated that.

 

Oh, but you did. FOUR TIMES.

[Star Gazer]

Please don't apologize to me, as I don't accept your apology. You're still accusing Darren of something he never even said.

 

Rejection of apology noted. He said it four times.

[RecordProducer]

The post I reported still stands, and I might just report a few more of yours.

People who report posts are schmucks! They can't argue their own points so they just report anonymous posters to anonymous owners of websites.

 

Star Gazer, do not respond at all to this person.

[Woggle]

No woman should ever be raped or mistreated based on how she is dressed but if a person puts their looks on display especially in a club or a bar setting they should expect that people would notice. It would be like a hunk who walked into a bar with a six pack and getting mad because some women notice. Some women get mad if you simply smile at them and they deem you unworthy to breathe their air.

[betterdeal]

No, just you. You repeatedly said people DESERVE mistreatment based on what they wear. So perhaps it's just YOU that's thinks like a rapist.

 

You libelled me too, for things I didn't say. I won't defend myself against false charges. Just because I think people are responsible for their own actions, and doing something to provoke someone puts some responsibility on you for them being successfully provoked you suggest I will be a rapist. Isn't that a bit like suggesting a woman who wears shorts is looking to be raped? It does not follow.

[fortyninethousand322]

Deserve, deserve, deserve. You advocated for DESERVING mistreatment. Period.

 

While I don't claim to know what people "deserve" or don't deserve, I think saying that someone deserves to be catcalled is a very far cry from saying that someone deserves to be raped. The comparison is flawed and very disingenuous for multiple reasons.

[Star Gazer]

Star Gazer, do not respond at all to this person.

 

Don't worry, sweets. I'm considering the source, and not at all surprised by his "contribution" to this thread.

[sanskrit]

I don't know what QED means.

 

Your post was a perfect example of the attitude that my previous post decried.

[Star Gazer]

He said that women deserved sexual attention. He did not say that they deserved to be raped.

 

I never said he said they deserve to be raped. I said he said women they deserve MISTREATMENT based on what they wear. Which is what he indeed said, as cat calling is mistreatment, and he said they DESERVE it, no less than four times. In fact, he said they DESERVE whatever they get based on what they wear.

 

I equated his belief that women DESERVE MISTREATMENT based on what they wear to that of the mindset of a rapist.

Edited May 23, 2011 by a LoveShack.org Moderator