Velociraptor Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Nothing in life comes without effort For women it does.
Dusk1983 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 For women it does. Yeah, hence why the cosmetics industry is in such poor health. As for game, it's a way of limiting the burden of affection until there is a level of mutual understanding that can support it. When you express emotion you're implicitly asking for something in return. And people, generally, don't always have the wherewithal to deal with their own emotions, let alone yours as well.
PinkInTheLimo Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) When I first started dating again, I just did what came naturally. Which meant no games. After a bit, I worried that I was out of my depth and looked for advice on the net. I went to places that were specifically for women. They told me I did *everything* wrong. -I wasn't supposed to call or email back right away. (I always did) -I wasn't supposed to have contact with him every day. (We were chatting 2-3 times per day) -I wasn't supposed to accept the first offer of a date. (I jumped as soon as he asked) -I wasn't supposed to be available every weekend. (I wanted to be with him and saw no reason to pretend otherwise) -I was supposed to keep my feelings to myself. (I liked him and showed it) -I wasn't supposed to make any effort at all. (I drove 8 hours to be with him) I thought about all this advice and about how my relationship was working. Then threw their rule book out. I wonder how many girls follow this type of advice? Because the site told me that following their rules was the only way to get and keep a man and I really worried about it. But they were wrong. At least with this particular guy anyway. Maybe those things are normally needed? I think the most important thing is to listen to your gut feeling. If it feels right, then do it. In my case, I hardly ever like a guy enough to go for a 2nd date, so if I exceptionnally like a guy a lot, I will not hide it from him. If for some reason, he then thinks that I am too eager and it makes me less attractive in his eyes, then he is not the one for me. Edited May 23, 2011 by PinkInTheLimo
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 No, you see, I've -got- game, lots of it, and it takes lots of hard work over years, lazy men never get it though, nor do they get anything else in life. Well, as one of those guys without "game", I take umbrage at the "lazy" insinuation. I work out, fulfill my responsibilities, have ambition, and when I'm playing basketball I'm always the one imploring people to run up and down the court. I don't think I'm "lazy". Guys without game are just that, guys without game. Doesn't mean they're lazy or have a sense of entitlement.
sanskrit Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) Well, as one of those guys without "game", I take umbrage at the "lazy" insinuation. I work out, fulfill my responsibilities, have ambition, and when I'm playing basketball I'm always the one imploring people to run up and down the court. I don't think I'm "lazy". Guys without game are just that, guys without game. Doesn't mean they're lazy or have a sense of entitlement. I never said that guys without game were lazy, just the ones who didn't think you need to practice and expend effort improving your social skills to have game, and also those who think that game/social skills aren't a necessity for attracting the best woman you want. Did you read my second reply in the thread? Edited May 23, 2011 by sanskrit
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 I never said that guys without game were lazy, just the ones who didn't think you need to practice and expend effort to have game, and that it wasn't a necessity for attracting the best woman you want. Did you read my second reply in the thread? I see. I think I get what you're saying now. I agree with some of it, disagree with other parts. But I get what you're saying.
dispatch3d Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 When I first started dating again, I just did what came naturally. Which meant no games. After a bit, I worried that I was out of my depth and looked for advice on the net. I went to places that were specifically for women. They told me I did *everything* wrong. -I wasn't supposed to call or email back right away. (I always did) -I wasn't supposed to have contact with him every day. (We were chatting 2-3 times per day) -I wasn't supposed to accept the first offer of a date. (I jumped as soon as he asked) -I wasn't supposed to be available every weekend. (I wanted to be with him and saw no reason to pretend otherwise) -I was supposed to keep my feelings to myself. (I liked him and showed it) -I wasn't supposed to make any effort at all. (I drove 8 hours to be with him) I thought about all this advice and about how my relationship was working. Then threw their rule book out. I wonder how many girls follow this type of advice? Because the site told me that following their rules was the only way to get and keep a man and I really worried about it. But they were wrong. At least with this particular guy anyway. Maybe those things are normally needed? Well, you would be playing hard to get, I'll give you that. Any self respecting guy whose reasonably busy probably wouldn't put up with your **** though. And not telling them how you felt. I don't know, I don't get it. These all seem like methods to NOT go out with someone (rather than vice versa).
Author Mark11 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Posted May 23, 2011 Well, as one of those guys without "game", I take umbrage at the "lazy" insinuation. I work out, fulfill my responsibilities, have ambition, and when I'm playing basketball I'm always the one imploring people to run up and down the court. I don't think I'm "lazy". Guys without game are just that, guys without game. Doesn't mean they're lazy or have a sense of entitlement. Well said. Joen, the link doesn't work.
Author Mark11 Posted June 10, 2011 Author Posted June 10, 2011 No, you see, I've -got- game, lots of it, and it takes lots of hard work over years, lazy men never get it though, nor do they get anything else in life. Let me guess, someone in your life told you that you were god's special creature, and that one day an angel would fall right out of the sky and into your lap who would love you for you with all your quirks. Hate to burst your bubble, but someone gave you some bad info. Nothing in life comes without effort, and that includes the social skills necessary to attract the women you want. And you may think I'm being caustic and nasty but I'm not. The whole concept of "game" is also something that's extremely superficial and ingenuine. The idea that a man should work to improve a way of superficially communicating with women is ridiculous. It does not make someone lazy if they don't want to engage in superficiality and tricking women into being attracted to them. The idea of having to trick a woman into being attracted to you is also ridiculous. It's funny that you consider this a "social skill". You said I don't have game, whatever don't criticize me. Step off. It's all ingenuine anyway. If that's what it is I don't want it. It's funny that you brag and you're proud of yourself because you think you have "game" and plenty of it that you worked hard over the years for. You're extremely superficial and unwise if you think improving superficial ways of communicating is something to brag about and to criticize others for not having. You said men are lazy who don't share your opinion about the subject. But I didn't hear you criticizing women. So men who don't want to participate in superficially chasing women are lazy, but women aren't expected to have "game" or the supposed "social skills" you spoke of to attract the opposite sex? Sounds righteous to me.
fishtaco Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 The whole concept of "game" is also something that's extremely superficial and ingenuine. The idea that a man should work to improve a way of superficially communicating with women is ridiculous. It does not make someone lazy if they don't want to engage in superficiality and tricking women into being attracted to them. The idea of having to trick a woman into being attracted to you is also ridiculous. It's funny that you consider this a "social skill". You said I don't have game, whatever don't criticize me. Step off. It's all ingenuine anyway. If that's what it is I don't want it. It's funny that you brag and you're proud of yourself because you think you have "game" and plenty of it that you worked hard over the years for. You're extremely superficial and unwise if you think improving superficial ways of communicating is something to brag about and to criticize others for not having. You said men are lazy who don't share your opinion about the subject. But I didn't hear you criticizing women. So men who don't want to participate in superficially chasing women are lazy, but women aren't expected to have "game" or the supposed "social skills" you spoke of to attract the opposite sex? Sounds righteous to me. As usual, I agree with sanskrit. By lazy, he doesn't mean a lazy human being. By lazy he means "not willing to do what it takes to be successful in attracting women". I've known many hard workers that are fat. They are not lazy when it comes to their job, but they don't want to diet or work out. Are they lazy human beings? No. They are hard workers. But if you don't diet and you don't work out, add the genetic predisposition to be fat, guess what happens? They're fat. Dating is nothing magical. It's like everything else. It's just another skill. If you diet and work out, you'll get a nice body. If you don't, you won't unless you are genetically gifted. Same thing with dating. Continuing with the analogy, if you want to argue having a nice body isn't necessary, okay, then be fat. If you're happy with being fat, good for you. But some of us want to be athletic. Same thing with dating. sanskrit and I do what is effective. And we see results. If you don't want to do something that is effective, because you think "it's beneath you", then first you're the one that's being righteous, second don't complain when women like us better. Dating is about more than just you. You may be a good guy, but how do you compare to me, based on an incomplete set of perception from a woman we both are interested in? There's no way to evaluate a person 100% in a short period of time. You could be a better man, but if I come off as being more impressive in the beginning, you lose anyway. Then later she found out I'm a douchbag and dumps me, fine, we all lose. But you don't care about me, you care about you... in this situation you still lost. The only way to not lose, is you, although being a good guy inside already, still have to learn the superficial game, so you can beat out guys like me.
Red Arremer Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 I'm not a huge fan of "game" either, but the more I think about it the more I feel like I need to begrudgingly learn it anyway. It really just seems to be a necessary evil, especially if you are only looking to date casually.
Dan The Stud Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 I like games in terms of video games or board games, but I don't like this concept of game in the dating sense. I don't even like the sound of it. Why do people in this world make dating so g---amn complicated? How come dating and courtship can't be more simple and practical without all the "game" and stupid s--t? thats the way the dating works. too bad you dont want to participate. more chicks for me.
Dan The Stud Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 As usual, I agree with sanskrit. By lazy, he doesn't mean a lazy human being. By lazy he means "not willing to do what it takes to be successful in attracting women". I've known many hard workers that are fat. They are not lazy when it comes to their job, but they don't want to diet or work out. Are they lazy human beings? No. They are hard workers. But if you don't diet and you don't work out, add the genetic predisposition to be fat, guess what happens? They're fat. Dating is nothing magical. It's like everything else. It's just another skill. If you diet and work out, you'll get a nice body. If you don't, you won't unless you are genetically gifted. Same thing with dating. Continuing with the analogy, if you want to argue having a nice body isn't necessary, okay, then be fat. If you're happy with being fat, good for you. But some of us want to be athletic. Same thing with dating. sanskrit and I do what is effective. And we see results. If you don't want to do something that is effective, because you think "it's beneath you", then first you're the one that's being righteous, second don't complain when women like us better. Dating is about more than just you. You may be a good guy, but how do you compare to me, based on an incomplete set of perception from a woman we both are interested in? There's no way to evaluate a person 100% in a short period of time. You could be a better man, but if I come off as being more impressive in the beginning, you lose anyway. Then later she found out I'm a douchbag and dumps me, fine, we all lose. But you don't care about me, you care about you... in this situation you still lost. The only way to not lose, is you, although being a good guy inside already, still have to learn the superficial game, so you can beat out guys like me. he wont get it. more chicks for us. girls like game especialy the ones who cliam otherwise.
Author Mark11 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Posted June 17, 2011 As usual, I agree with sanskrit. By lazy, he doesn't mean a lazy human being. By lazy he means "not willing to do what it takes to be successful in attracting women". I've known many hard workers that are fat. They are not lazy when it comes to their job, but they don't want to diet or work out. Are they lazy human beings? No. They are hard workers. But if you don't diet and you don't work out, add the genetic predisposition to be fat, guess what happens? They're fat. Dating is nothing magical. It's like everything else. It's just another skill. If you diet and work out, you'll get a nice body. If you don't, you won't unless you are genetically gifted. Same thing with dating. Continuing with the analogy, if you want to argue having a nice body isn't necessary, okay, then be fat. If you're happy with being fat, good for you. But some of us want to be athletic. Same thing with dating. sanskrit and I do what is effective. And we see results. If you don't want to do something that is effective, because you think "it's beneath you", then first you're the one that's being righteous, second don't complain when women like us better. Dating is about more than just you. You may be a good guy, but how do you compare to me, based on an incomplete set of perception from a woman we both are interested in? There's no way to evaluate a person 100% in a short period of time. You could be a better man, but if I come off as being more impressive in the beginning, you lose anyway. Then later she found out I'm a douchbag and dumps me, fine, we all lose. But you don't care about me, you care about you... in this situation you still lost. The only way to not lose, is you, although being a good guy inside already, still have to learn the superficial game, so you can beat out guys like me. Point taken fishtaco. Very articulate of you. It's not that I think "game" is beneath me. I just think it's a superficial unnecessary complicated concept. I also don't like how it's only expected of men. It should be the same for both sides. When I said righteous, I wasn't calling sanskrit self-righteous. It was sarcasm. As in it's not right that something is only expected of men instead of both genders. I never said that dating is just about me. That's the other reason I don't like the concept of game. In your last paragraph, you made it sound like a competition. I guess if you, sanskrit, and alot of other ppl like it that way and keep perpetuating it, then oh well. But from my perspective this is a problem. Superficial "game" in a dating sense isn't a good thing. Superficiality, fakeness, guile, or tricking someone into liking you isn't a good thing or something one should indulge participating in. If that's what it takes to attract women, then yes, I am unwilling to do what it takes. I do have standards and ethics. Rules to which I adhere. I like genuine, deep, and simple interactions. Those are just my thoughts.
Andy_K Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Mark, I think what's important here is an understanding of what really constitutes 'game'. From an outsider's perspective it might seem superficial, manipulative, or whatever else - but that's because you don't really see what it's about. For example, take the following bunch of rules -I wasn't supposed to call or email back right away. (I always did) -I wasn't supposed to have contact with him every day. (We were chatting 2-3 times per day) -I wasn't supposed to accept the first offer of a date. (I jumped as soon as he asked) -I wasn't supposed to be available every weekend. (I wanted to be with him and saw no reason to pretend otherwise) -I was supposed to keep my feelings to myself. (I liked him and showed it) -I wasn't supposed to make any effort at all. (I drove 8 hours to be with him) Does that sound like 'game'? It's not. Most of these could equally apply to men. but they're not 'game'. They're oversimplifications, training wheels and generalisations for people who don't understand the principles behind them. What the above is really saying, is 'don't appear too needy/clingy', and why it says that is because it's very common for people who aren't very successful in dating to do this. But knowing that still isn't game. 'Game', for the above is genuinely not being needy and coming across that way. It's being able to understand the dynamic between yourself and a member of the opposite sex, and understand whether it would be appropriate for you to say or do a certain thing. It's an acute awareness of how you'll be perceived for your actions. And, ironically, often ignoring whether the perception will be negative or not because you're just that confident
kooki Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 This is such a good question coming from a guy. As a woman, I totally agree with you Mark!! I hate games as well, I can't stand them. I never liked playing them. My girlfriends and these dating coaches online all say we should play them. Read askmen.com I lose faith sometimes!!! Yes sometimes people seem to play games because they don't want to seem needy or clingy, but generally speaking, I don't think this is the case. They may seem to play games because they are just not serious about you and are irresponsible, immature. Generally, this is the conclusion I have come to: if someone is authentic, and they dig you, they will not play games with you. If someone is unsure about you and can't be themselves (are insecure), they will play games most likely. So, don't play the games, refuse to and that's how you will find your match.
GivenUp0083 Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 I think the concept of "game" is: - An immature way for other men to boost their own ego and brag of social successes or convincing women whom they do not care for intimately to engage in intimate acts soley for the purpose of sexual acts or building their ego. - A way for men to blame "not having game" as a reason for a girl not going out with them or hooking up, despite the fact there may be 100 other reasons why he was turned down that have absolutely nothing to do with him.
goinbananas Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 To me, game is for those who can't attract and connect naturally. I used to try all that stupid crap with little success compared to just being truly myself and keeping conversation light and funny. That is the best way. I mean, yes, don't drop your whole life to accommodate the girl you're dating, but I generally don't put too much stock in these dating rulebooks and their crappy mindgames. After the last girl I dated im not gonna tolerate any from girls either.
rafallus Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 What's the game in the first place? An act? Then you don't need it. A skill? Then why hate on it, if you don't have it, but can learn it? A mindset? Then, again, why would you hate it?
fishtaco Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 In your last paragraph, you made it sound like a competition. I guess if you, sanskrit, and alot of other ppl like it that way and keep perpetuating it, then oh well. I wish it wasn't a competition. But it's sort of not up to me or sanskrit. When you have three men interested in one woman, and she has to decide on one, how can you make it so that it's NOT a competition? If you have a solution for this I'd like to hear it. You can walk away and not participate. But then what? You only look for women that no other men are interested in dating? You want deep genuine interaction. That's great. So do I. But how do you earn the chance to have the deep genuine interaction? Why would she give that to you? Maybe she'd rather give that to me. You could either: 1) Out compete the other suitors, so she's willing to engage in deep genuine interaction with you, then you discover about each other during the casual dating process. 2) Only hit up on friends. Which is not recommended. We have had threads here once in awhile about the evils of hitting up on friends. Basically, most women don't like it, they feel betrayal of the friendship you've built up. Unless of course, they're the one that developed a crush on the friend, then it's all good. From my perspective, and feel free to disagree, you are too idealistic. What you want is 100% correct, except you didn't factor in practicality and reality.
Sanman Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Unsurprisingly, I agree with Sanskrit and Fishtaco as well. 'Game' is simply a man's comfort and ability to talk to women. Some guys have a natural ability to intuit what women want and others have to learn these skills. The guys are right that dating is not that mysterious. Money, looks, and game are what is needed to be desirable to the opposite sex. You say that women don't have to do these things, but they do. Nice hair, sexy dresses, high heels, and fit bodies are their way to attract men (their game). For both sexes, being great in bed is also a draw. As others have said, it is society that decides such things. If I could declare that I was attracted to a woman and every other guy in the world would back off, this would not be necessary. However, that will never happen.
aj22one Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 I wish it wasn't a competition. But it's sort of not up to me or sanskrit. When you have three men interested in one woman, and she has to decide on one, how can you make it so that it's NOT a competition? If you have a solution for this I'd like to hear it. You can walk away and not participate. But then what? You only look for women that no other men are interested in dating? Sadly I think that's exactly what I do. As soon as I realize that I'm not the only guy interested in a certain girl or the only guy she's interested in I tend to back off and let other, "better" guys get their shot. I guess I subconsciously think that if I'm patient a wonderful girl will just fall into my lap. So far that strategy has not worked at all.
grkBoy Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Frankly, the people who are sick of the "games" or wonder why you have to have "game" to succeed should stop asking/complaining...and just stop playing into it. So you meet a guy or a girl who "freaks out" because you didn't wait two days to call them or gets "turned off" because you didn't come off as some "ideal mate" (which is a fantasy person they keep in their heads). Stop worrying and griping. I've been rejected many times in my life. The moment it got better was when I just stopped playing the whole game. When I get big interest from a girl, but then call her later and she's sending me to voice mail...I just move on. I don't care if she changed her mind, or was pretending to like me, or if she suddenly thinks I'm creepy because I didn't wait two days. I just move on. A girl needs me to "chase" her? I move on. I don't waste my time. A girl can't make up her mind? I move on. Some might think I give up too easily, but I personally think showing inner strength is what keeps you from ending up with the wrong person. If a man or woman needs "work" in order to make things happen...move on. I for one got tired of trying to climb over mountains to make things happen. Seriously look at all the men and women you know who play games or get all into these stupid "rules". How many of them are happy and in love? How many of them are alone and pretending to be happy about it? I know for me, all those people are chronically single...and it's their own fault. Don't waste your time on someone who won't make you a priority.
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