Woggle Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 When you read about men like John Edwards, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse James who cheated and betrayed women that were devoted to them do you hate men for at least a moment? When these scandals broke did you feel a bunch of misandrist feelings? For those that are married or in relationships did you not want your man to even touch you that way? If the answer to any of this is yes that is what I feel when I read misandrist stuff on the internet or when I read threads here about women cheating. My mood can go from happy to very dark in a second if I hear or read something that ticks me off and I don't know how to stop it. What I want to ask women here who don't let these scandals affect how they feel about men is how do you do it. How do you go home and be loving to your man after hearing about this on the radio or at work?
dreamingoftigers Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 What you are describing is almost a pure trauma reaction. In my case: I used to think the "temporarily hate men" mantra until I learned a lot more (mostly on loveshack) that men do hurt when women cheat on them as well. I honestly thought/felt that men just were indignantly pissed off /insulted when women cheated and turfed them to kind of "punish them" and then replace them with a different woman who can better serve their needs. I would say that my view of men was very dark and narrow. Now I see that men really do hurt and hurt in deep places that they often can't and don't share, so they have to process that alone and that can take a ling time, and be very hard for them to truly open in a relationship again. One major reason that I would not cheat on my H regardless of his stupidity and lack of acknowledgement for what he has done to me. My reaction changed from one of "hate men" to "hate cheaters/sexual addicts" for awhile (even though in the past I have had my own sexually compulsive behaviours, it was a weird phase). Now having realized that most cheaters have attachment, conflict-avoidance, compulsions, impulsiveness and a lot of deep-seated pain that they are avoiding or greatly lack awareness of themselves and others, I have been (in general, not in my own marriage) able to quell the initial "what a bitch, bastard" response in my head. Nowadays I tend to see them as children on certain fronts wailing about how they should get all of their needs met by outside sources. If a woman feels lonely, she wails about the company and how nice OM is to her. And then she wails when H leaves her. All I hear is "wah wah wah, I want, I want, I want." And those people are not ready for an adult relationship. Sometimes that wah wah wah comes out in different forms, but at the end of the day there is an emotional immaturity that they pin on the source outside of themselves. I am not immune to the "wah wah wah" myself, but when you hit adulthood you tend to realize wailing and whining and doing behaviors that harm others is not going to get you far. Women are not to blame for your reaction. Stupidity is to blame. And while their are many examples of stupidity in the world, it probably isn't the best use of time to seek out stupidity on the Internet as a way to avoid it infiltrating your own mind. (not a personal criticism). I do wonder if you read my PM that I sent you about a month ago.
Ruby Slippers Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 No, I don't hate men when I hear about these scandals. I wonder why people are so dishonest with themselves and other people. I wish that people would be honest about who they are and what they want. If all men or most men do not want to be monogamous, I wish they would just be honest about it. Don't pretend to play this game of family and commitment if your heart isn't really in it. Why waste anybody's time like that? Just be who you are. Why are people so afraid of this?
dreamingoftigers Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 I really wonder that too, like my H, like why lie and BS about everything: just go live your life and stop graphing in mine if you want to mess around! Jesse James I see as very "wah wah wah." like in some of just brief clips he seems to have the body language like he was the victim. "I am so hated, boo hoo." like dude, people not liking you didn't just fall from the sky. You did something unlikeable. Own it, leave the behaviour behind, man up, apologize, make some other amends, like with integrity. Although I get that this process can take years. Just stop with the wah wah wah as a first step.
johan Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 To be honest, when I hear about things like that, I lose a bit of faith in humanity. Men included. In these cases, men in particular. It's a reminder that what you think a person is like based on how they behave in public has little to do with reality. And you can be equally surprised by someone you think you know well.
BiscuitXOXO Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 I wonder why people are so dishonest with themselves and other people. I wish that people would be honest about who they are and what they want. If all men or most men do not want to be monogamous, I wish they would just be honest about it. Don't pretend to play this game of family and commitment if your heart isn't really in it. Why waste anybody's time like that? Just be who you are. Why are people so afraid of this? I feel that people who cheat are either 1) lonely in some way, or 2) non-committed. And the non-committed people just want to have their cake and eat it too. They want the image and the social status of a "perfect family" but also want to be free to flirt and bed other women. idk, just a theory.
Star Gazer Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 When you read about men like John Edwards, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse James who cheated and betrayed women that were devoted to them do you hate men for at least a moment? When these scandals broke did you feel a bunch of misandrist feelings? For those that are married or in relationships did you not want your man to even touch you that way? No, no, and no. It makes me disappointed, and makes me think there might be fewer good guys out there than I'd hoped, and to appreciate those that are.
Minnie09 Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) I think people just generally don't care very much anymore. And everybody who gets a chance to cheat will eventually do it - one way or another. With politicians, TV starlets, Hollywood stars and rich / attractive persons, it's just simple: They have sooooooo many opportunities and they would be zombies if they didn't just do it. What I AM surprised about is how they do it so dumbly that somebody finds out at a later stage. By getting somebody pregnant chances are that you're found out, right? So why not use frigging protection? It's very strange how stupid some powerful men act in these situations. Or maybe they just don't care. Got carried away a bit. I don't hate men when I hear those stories. But I am definitely very disappointed at what our society has become. Edited May 21, 2011 by Minnie09
OliveOyl Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 I guess I don't generalize. My take is that there are sooo many different people and kinds of people in the world that there are bound to be liars and cheaters. And those are the ones you hear about in the media. You don't hear about the honest, faithful people with integrity. They don't pop up in the news or in forums. FWIW my brother is a cameraman and met Arnold Schwarzenegger. He said that Arnold was a real douchebag in person. So I wasn't really surprised.
Jynxx Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 If all men or most men do not want to be monogamous, I wish they would just be honest about it. Don't pretend to play this game of family and commitment if your heart isn't really in it. Why waste anybody's time like that? I would say the reason is because powerfull men want to reproduce and start a family, like most other people. A coupe years in, they will face temptations just like everyone else does, but alot more. They could choose to divorce and **** around (pun intended), but that would hurt wife, kids, image, finances etc. The alternative is staying married and taking an opportunity when it passes by in ****meboots and a miniskirt once every so often. Also, I think more couples than you think have a dont ask dont tell thing going; you can't convince me Tiger Woods wife had absolutely no idea about it when her husband had 100 different girls. I'm not saying I would do this or judging them for their behavior, just my .02
alethean Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 No, but based on your past experiences, I can certainly understand your visceral reactions to these types of things, and that hearing about callous and insensitive actions that a woman might do to her partner can hurt and trigger a negative reaction from you. I can empathize because I also have a trigger. Throughout my childhood and early adolescence I was sexually abused/molested. Although I do not hate men now, I find that I relate to most--especially those I am interested in--with an element of fear. Trust is difficult. Even though I logically know that most men are not rapists my subconscious seems not to. My primary reaction to a guy who appears interested in me would be to wonder what ulterior motive he has. And certain people, situations, even references (e.g. to rape/sexual assault) triggers nervousness, perceived threat, fear. I notice that you have taken strides to overcome the misgivings about women that your experiences have left you with. I also have had to do this in the past few years. I don't think that my fear of men is fair to the outstanding individuals who have tried to get to know me but couldn't reach me because they were men. I also realize that through this mode of thinking I am hindering myself.
denise_xo Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 No, I don't. Arnold really has nothing to do with my relationships. Thankfully.
january2011 Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 I think, "wow, what idiots (the men are)." I also notice that there's a trend of 'trading down'. Most of these men (and there have been many more celeb betrayals than the ones quoted in the OP) had beef bourguignon at home but preferred to go outside for a Big Mac. What idiots.
Pianiste Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 To be honest, when I hear about things like that, I lose a bit of faith in humanity. Men included. In these cases, men in particular. It's a reminder that what you think a person is like based on how they behave in public has little to do with reality. And you can be equally surprised by someone you think you know well. This is exactly how I feel about it.
Flgirl44 Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 I tend to think 'wow, I didn't know Jesse James could stoop that low', or 'geez Arnold that's a little excessive don't you think?' But I try hard not to generalize their behavior to represent the male population at large. Sure they share some similar character traits of guys I have been burned by but I try not too make it more than what it is. I do get a mood change when reading those headlines though.
nordic Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 I think, "wow, what idiots (the men are)." I also notice that there's a trend of 'trading down'. Most of these men (and there have been many more celeb betrayals than the ones quoted in the OP) had beef bourguignon at home but preferred to go outside for a Big Mac. What idiots. you get tired of eating the same meal over and over, however good it was the first time:) well, it is a simple arithmetic beneath this mechanism. getting uncomplicated sex from a woman takes a bigger distance in attractiveness between you and her, than getting into a relationship with a woman. would you have sex with a man a stepped up to you and said, "hey baby i have a free hour, lets go somewhere and ****"? most women wouldnt. but some will, given that the man is hot enough and she recognises him from tv or movies or knows about him for some other reason. these women are usually not that attractive, but they make up for that by being so available instead.
nordic Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Woggle, most women feel a huge surge of attraction to philandering men--powerful, desired, and sexually potent. They might publicly claim to hate such men, but to themselves, they wonder if they could rise to the "challenge" of keeping such a man from straying. amen. the difference between how women communicate in actions and words is the size of grand canyon, when it comes to sexuality.
LittleTiger Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 When you read about men like John Edwards, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse James who cheated and betrayed women that were devoted to them do you hate men for at least a moment? When these scandals broke did you feel a bunch of misandrist feelings? For those that are married or in relationships did you not want your man to even touch you that way? No, if you want a generalisation, I love men (generally). I take every human being as I find them and surround myself with people I believe are good people - mostly my instincts are right. I value my partner more, not less, when I read stories like this. Some lying, cheating, rich or famous idiot (male or female) has nothing to do with my own life or the (mostly) good men that I know and love (my partner, father, brother and male friends). I have no interest in how complete strangers are making a mess of their lives and/or their families. That said, given your background Woggle, I can understand your feelings. Well done for being aware of them. I hope one day you'll be able to free yourself from allowing negative stories about women you don't even know to influence your emotions.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 I wouldn't judge a woman based on how "slutty" a celebrity is. I feel celebrity idolism leads to an unfair judgment, which is not perfect. I like Arnold's movies. I don't like Arnold. I'd rather see him act, than see him in person. Celebrities can be a'holes, too.
Author Woggle Posted May 22, 2011 Author Posted May 22, 2011 I want to free myself of it but it is hard. It really is. I know the demons are there but it is not easy getting rid of them. It least it doesn't last nearly as long as it used to. I can take a deep breath and come to my senses pretty quick.
eerie_reverie Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 I feel really bad for their wives and kids, but no, reading stuff like that doesn't make me hate all men. In the case of these examples, it barely even registers as a surprise - I feel like guys who choose professions like politics or being Arnold are narcissists to begin with. And you can't trust a narcissist.
D-Lish Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Things like this remind me to be careful, and choose wisely- but not to stop loving. You can't blame an entire gender for people like this.
sally4sara Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 No I don't hate on men when I hear of these scandals. It is a narrow scope to only think poorly of the gender instead of the behavior and action. I end up wondering if there really is or it just seems like there are more and more crappy, entitled people in the world as time goes by. The broad scope is how this attitude of entitlement this plays out on a larger scale with politicians, corporations, old money families grubbing for capital gain and power any way they can get it and keep it no matter how unethical the method. Someone getting cheated on by a romantic partner is one of the least destructive ways this plays out. But no matter how the back stab lands, its never because of the back stabber's gender. And its never because of the gender of the person getting screwed over either. It happens because someone is a POS and has this attitude inside them that is overly focused on their own gain, gratification and whim and under-focused on the loss or pain it will cause to others. But yes, I do get dark feelings when I see this behavior play out in its many different ways and wonder what its going to take for guns and flags time to happen. Why waste time worrying about the gender of a snake? Who cares what gender it is? Its a snake and it means you harm.
2sunny Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 When you read about men like John Edwards, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse James who cheated and betrayed women that were devoted to them do you hate men for at least a moment? When these scandals broke did you feel a bunch of misandrist feelings? For those that are married or in relationships did you not want your man to even touch you that way? If the answer to any of this is yes that is what I feel when I read misandrist stuff on the internet or when I read threads here about women cheating. My mood can go from happy to very dark in a second if I hear or read something that ticks me off and I don't know how to stop it. What I want to ask women here who don't let these scandals affect how they feel about men is how do you do it. How do you go home and be loving to your man after hearing about this on the radio or at work? no, i don't anymore. i have worked through and past my assigned meaning (the meaning I assigned) i may have once had to these situations. what i do look at - is what a healthy boundary looks like and i am glad when i see that someone has a good sense to respect themselves enough to know when to get out of a crappy situation. THAT is what i look at now. hanging on to things that make us unhappy is NOT useful. we deserve to be happy every day - no matter what circumstances may be happening.
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