Self Identity Issue?! What is a real MAN.

[VicJay79]

Dear LS,

 

I was raised in a primary single family home, with my mother being the largest influence on my life. My father was really never home, and was primarly the provider for the family in terms of economics. While I appreciate the fact that I didn't live in poverty, I find myself missing the male experience between father and son. To this end, I am now struggling with my own concept of being a man (Gentleman), even at the age of 31.

 

My mother made me into a very sensative guy. I am a hopeless romantic, smile all the time, and am overall nice guy. I avoid personal confrontation, and am very intouch with my emotions. I love talking on the phone, and talking about my feelings. Lets face it these aren't things that a real man does....

 

I have already ordered a series of Art of Gentleman like books. Many of them talk about being less sensative, more head strong, and determined. Stubborn and uncomprimising on morals and ideals. Being more the alpha-male. I have further enlisted in mixed martial arts, and have countless bruises over my body because 3.5 hour combat fighting.

 

I don't understand, WHAT makes a real man! Overly being sensative is a weakness I feel....

[Ruby Slippers]

I grew up in a generation with a lot of mother-led households with absent fathers, so about the half the guys I've dated had more of their mother's influence than the father's.

 

All their issues tend to boil down to one thing: they are too worried about pleasing and not upsetting women and not focused enough on achieving their own success and happiness on their own terms.

 

When you are a successful, happy man doing what you want to do, the women will come to YOU, and you won't have to worry so much about placating them, because you will be in high demand.

 

Nobody respects a doormat, so don't ever be one.

[Jynxx]

I grew up in a generation with a lot of mother-led households with absent fathers, so about the half the guys I've dated had more of their mother's influence than the father's.

 

All their issues tend to boil down to one thing: they are too worried about pleasing and not upsetting women and not focused enough on achieving their own success and happiness on their own terms.

 

When you are a successful, happy man doing what you want to do, the women will come to YOU, and you won't have to worry so much about placating them, because you will be in high demand.

 

Nobody respects a doormat, so don't ever be one.

 

Agree with this post, except that you can never rely on women comming to you. That just doesn't happen, or at least not with the kind of women you want to be with. Get your life in order, go out, talk to women, don't treat them like princesses.

[bluenightowl]

"All their issues tend to boil down to one thing: they are too worried about pleasing and not upsetting women and not focused enough on achieving their own success and happiness on their own terms.

 

When you are a successful, happy man doing what you want to do, the women will come to YOU, and you won't have to worry so much about placating them, because you will be in high demand."

 

Nobody respects a doormat, so don't ever be one."

 

This is brilliant advice. +1

 

I would also say weaknesses can be strengths. Being sensitive might mean you have the ability to be compassionate and have empathy more than others. I think women appreciate these things. But perhaps you just need to balance these qualities out with being decisive, firm, and focusing on what you want as the above posters mentions.

 

I would consider myself sensitive as well, but its never affected my ability to date beautiful women once I started to believe in myself. I wouldn't be surprised if you're able to make a connection with women better than most men. Brush up on those other qualities and I suspect you'll do really well.

[Feelsgoodman]

All their issues tend to boil down to one thing: they are too worried about pleasing and not upsetting women and not focused enough on achieving their own success and happiness on their own terms.

 

When you are a successful, happy man doing what you want to do, the women will come to YOU, and you won't have to worry so much about placating them, because you will be in high demand.

 

Nobody respects a doormat, so don't ever be one.

This pretty much nails it. Women dislike "nice guys" because nice guys are spineless supplicators.

[MrNate]

These are the types of discussions i like.

 

Tell me, taking the media's view out of it. What do you think a real man is?

[plasma]

Dear LS,

 

I was raised in a primary single family home, with my mother being the largest influence on my life. My father was really never home, and was primarly the provider for the family in terms of economics. While I appreciate the fact that I didn't live in poverty, I find myself missing the male experience between father and son. To this end, I am now struggling with my own concept of being a man (Gentleman), even at the age of 31.

 

My mother made me into a very sensative guy. I am a hopeless romantic, smile all the time, and am overall nice guy. I avoid personal confrontation, and am very intouch with my emotions. I love talking on the phone, and talking about my feelings. Lets face it these aren't things that a real man does....

 

I have already ordered a series of Art of Gentleman like books. Many of them talk about being less sensative, more head strong, and determined. Stubborn and uncomprimising on morals and ideals. Being more the alpha-male. I have further enlisted in mixed martial arts, and have countless bruises over my body because 3.5 hour combat fighting.

 

I don't understand, WHAT makes a real man! Overly being sensative is a weakness I feel....

 

i have to run but i will add some input here ! im guessing your american living in america as i am?

 

the whole " your not a man thing is a sham"

 

ill tell u more later !

[VicJay79]

These are the types of discussions i like.

 

Tell me, taking the media's view out of it. What do you think a real man is?

 

 

I always considered a real man to have these qualities.

 

1. Fearless

2. Independent

3. Rock Solid Physically

4. Emotionless- No sissy talk about emotions.

 

Honestly, all the real men that society has shown seem to have these qualities. The Action-hero if you will.

[Mimolicious]

I always considered a real man to have these qualities.

 

1. Fearless

2. Independent

3. Rock Solid Physically

4. Emotionless- No sissy talk about emotions.

 

Honestly, all the real men that society has shown seem to have these qualities. The Action-hero if you will.

 

 

And Action heros' are fiction. Be you. If you don't know who "you" is, first get to know him, you'll be able to find someone that finds you genuine.

 

You really want to build your "identity" on what the media portraits as being a "real man"? Like Arnold Schwarzenegger "real man"?

[VicJay79]

RubySlippers,

 

In my current relationship, I always tell my girlfriend that I just want to make happy and see her smile. I am VERY romantic, and every two weeks send her cute greeting cards filled with messages and etc. With all this 'relationship' giving, I have heard that I need to now 'back off' to show some masculine superiority. Why is it in our culture a man can not be a hopeless romantic!

 

 

 

I grew up in a generation with a lot of mother-led households with absent fathers, so about the half the guys I've dated had more of their mother's influence than the father's.

 

All their issues tend to boil down to one thing: they are too worried about pleasing and not upsetting women and not focused enough on achieving their own success and happiness on their own terms.

 

When you are a successful, happy man doing what you want to do, the women will come to YOU, and you won't have to worry so much about placating them, because you will be in high demand.

 

Nobody respects a doormat, so don't ever be one.

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

A real man is getting drunk, taking lots of drugs, scratching his a**hole a lot, and beating his woman.

 

Am I right, ladies? Because you sure don't appreciate the sensitive, kind, and genuine guys who don't act that way.

[VicJay79]

BlueNightOwl,

 

Its so double-sidded. I look at older men that I know that seem to have no emotions what so ever (heavily abated). They are old-school in their thinking and believe emotions and talking through problems are things only women do.

 

As a sensative guy, I often wonder if that is a turn off to not only women, but also a sign of weakness amongst men. Being sensative and so inclose with your feelings causes concepts of clingyness, over analysis, and etc. These things only further the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

"All their issues tend to boil down to one thing: they are too worried about pleasing and not upsetting women and not focused enough on achieving their own success and happiness on their own terms.

 

When you are a successful, happy man doing what you want to do, the women will come to YOU, and you won't have to worry so much about placating them, because you will be in high demand."

 

Nobody respects a doormat, so don't ever be one."

 

This is brilliant advice. +1

 

I would also say weaknesses can be strengths. Being sensitive might mean you have the ability to be compassionate and have empathy more than others. I think women appreciate these things. But perhaps you just need to balance these qualities out with being decisive, firm, and focusing on what you want as the above posters mentions.

 

I would consider myself sensitive as well, but its never affected my ability to date beautiful women once I started to believe in myself. I wouldn't be surprised if you're able to make a connection with women better than most men. Brush up on those other qualities and I suspect you'll do really well.

[Stung]

I always considered a real man to have these qualities.

 

1. Fearless

2. Independent

3. Rock Solid Physically

4. Emotionless- No sissy talk about emotions.

 

Honestly, all the real men that society has shown seem to have these qualities. The Action-hero if you will.

 

Action heroes are make-believe. Nobody is absolutely fearless. Also, for what it's worth, every man I've ever met who had trouble talking about his emotions even with his loved one was tormented and conflicted and HIGHLY emotional inside.

 

It's not attractive for ANYONE to be "overly sensitive," as you put it. Nobody likes a crybaby, or a doormat, or someone who sits around processing their New Age emotions so much that they never get anything done. And there are women who were raised to get dreamy over the fictional action hero, sure.

 

However, there are also plenty of women who truly value men who are more in touch with their emotions, who don't flinch away from talking to them about their inner life. That's a different kind of strength all on it's own, and many people respect it--also many women have grown to realize that it's damn lonely being in a relationship with a man who wont' talk to them about anything real and deep.

 

Your comment about avoiding conflict threw up some question marks for me. Passive-aggressive conflict avoidance can be a major roadblock in relationships and just to accomplishing what you want in life in general.

 

At this point it sounds to me like what you need is balance. The martial arts you're taking could be great for you, but only if you are enjoying it and it instills confidence in you--if you suck at it and you hate it and it's tearing up your self-esteem, that's not going to do anything positive for you. Martial arts can be sexy, yeah. Learning to be confident in yourself, that adds sex appeal too.

 

As far as what constitutes a real man, that's highly variable, I guess. There are chronological men who seem like boys to me emotionally, because they dont' take responsibility for themselves and their lives, and/or because they avoid complex adult relationships and always operate at a selfish surface level. However any man who acts like an adult and takes care of his **** and tries to understand and relate to others in a meaningful way, is emotionally a 'real' man IMO. None of that has anything to do with what his hobbies are, and actually suggests that he is NOT emotionally walled off from everybody.

[musemaj11]

It seems to in families without father figure, the mother tends to shape her son into being a doormat.

 

Personally I too wasnt close with my father. I barely ever spoke to him. I spent most of my childhood time with my mother. As a result I did become doormat as well and it took me a while to grow out of it and learn the place of men in reality instead of the place of men according to what women want.

 

I suggest you watch Tom Leykis videos on Youtube. I learn a lot from him.

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

It seems to in families without father figure, the mother tends to shape her son into being a doormat.

 

Probably true. I grew up without a father, or father figure.

 

I've never known how to treat women, except as a doormat. I've heard of a good book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy", perhaps I need to read it?

[musemaj11]

Probably true. I grew up without a father, or father figure.

 

I've never known how to treat women, except as a doormat. I've heard of a good book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy", perhaps I need to read it?

Yea, when I think about it, my mother taught to be Mr Darcy instead of being a man who stands up for himself. I understand she probably just thought it would make me a better man but since she is a woman, she couldnt comprehend its future implications on me once Im an adult male thrown into real life.

 

Whats funny I think is that while mothers teach their sons to be doormats to women, fathers on the other hand tend to teach their daughters to distrust all men.

 

Anyway, I personally read "The Manipulated Man" and watch Tom Leykis videos to learn to stand up for myself and protect myself as a man.

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Yea, when I think about it, my mother taught to be Mr Darcy instead of being a man who stands up for himself. I understand she probably just thought it would make me a better man but since she is a woman, she couldnt comprehend its future implications on me once Im an adult male thrown into real life.

 

Whats funny I think is that while mothers teach their sons to be doormats to women, fathers on the other hand tend to teach their daughters to distrust all men.

 

Yeah, lol.

 

Anyway, I personally read "The Manipulated Man" and watch Tom Leykis videos to learn to stand up for myself and protect myself as a man.

 

I found The Manipulated Man online, will start reading it.

 

And I don't agree with Tom, if it's the person I'm thinking of. But he's a conservative, and I'm a liberal.

[Datura]

A real man is getting drunk, taking lots of drugs, scratching his a**hole a lot, and beating his woman.

 

Maybe these are the things you should engage in -right now- to attract the ladies.

 

Am I right, ladies? Because you sure don't appreciate the sensitive, kind, and genuine guys who don't act that way.

For someone who is socially anxious, unemployed, and fearful of women, you sure are insightful regarding others. Edited May 19, 2011 by Datura

[Stung]

Yea, when I think about it, my mother taught to be Mr Darcy instead of being a man who stands up for himself. .

Er, if you have actually read Pride and Prejudice you might want to re-read, as you seem to have Mr. Darcy confused with someone else.

 

 

 

A real man is getting drunk, taking lots of drugs, scratching his a**hole a lot, and beating his woman.

 

Am I right, ladies? Because you sure don't appreciate the sensitive, kind, and genuine guys who don't act that way.

 

I know that you're upset with your current life situation, but you have really got to get over this bitter obsessive thinking, it's just not doing anything positive for you. It sometimes seems like you really believe that there are only two types of men in the world, lonely embittered doormats and brutal abusive criminals. What a strange and misandrist belief.

 

Since you asked, I do appreciate kind, genuine guys who don't do drugs and beat me. I married one, I am the daughter of one, and most of the other women I know are married to or seriously dating or actively seeking other kind, genuine good guys.

 

I'm not sure that you actually know much about what women appreciate IRL. As I recall, you never even ask women out, so you have no idea if any of them would appreciate you specifically or not.

[SomewhatExperienced]

"All their issues tend to boil down to one thing: they are too worried about pleasing and not upsetting women and not focused enough on achieving their own success and happiness on their own terms.

 

When you are a successful, happy man doing what you want to do, the women will come to YOU, and you won't have to worry so much about placating them, because you will be in high demand."

 

Nobody respects a doormat, so don't ever be one."

 

This is brilliant advice. +1

 

I would also say weaknesses can be strengths. Being sensitive might mean you have the ability to be compassionate and have empathy more than others. I think women appreciate these things. But perhaps you just need to balance these qualities out with being decisive, firm, and focusing on what you want as the above posters mentions.

 

I would consider myself sensitive as well, but its never affected my ability to date beautiful women once I started to believe in myself. I wouldn't be surprised if you're able to make a connection with women better than most men. Brush up on those other qualities and I suspect you'll do really well.

 

This is one of the most intelligent posts I've read on LS is a sea of "nice guys are really just door-mats" threads.

 

Like the poster of this reply, I too consider myself sensitive and compassionate, but it's balanced out by confidence and a need to take care of myself too. Be caring and romantic when it's appropriate, but do it because you want to because it's your nature, not because you want to impress a girl.

 

Also, be weary of MMA gyms. I grew up doing martial arts too. Those gyms are often full of meat-heads and the atmosphere can be extremely hegemonic. It might be good for building your confidence and willingness to take care of yourself, but stand true to who you are throughout it all. Don't become one of them because the chest-beating, steroid-popping guys with a desire to beat up people do attract girls, but based on your personality, not likely to be kind of girls you'll like.

[Woggle]

So many things in this thread point to the fact that a strong male role model is very important for a boy so why do some people seem to promote fatherlessness as a big statement of female independence? Why do we as a society continue to see fathers as disposable sperm donors when it is obvious they are much more?

 

Fathers also matter much to women as well. If you look at these women who seem incapabe of having a healthy relationship with a man 9 times out 10 you will find some father issues in there.

[MrNate]

I always considered a real man to have these qualities.

 

1. Fearless

2. Independent

3. Rock Solid Physically

4. Emotionless- No sissy talk about emotions.

 

Honestly, all the real men that society has shown seem to have these qualities. The Action-hero if you will.

 

Sounds good but. I think a lot of times, a real man seems to be defined by society, but we fail to forget that being a real man means a lot of different things. I'm sure you can go a few pages back on the list of threads (might be on the first page) and look at what women find to be turn offs in men.

 

Then I want you to compare your list with those. You're just as much of a man as any of us. As far as your gf saying to back off a bit, I think it just because too many romantic things too often might be too much for her. Maybe she feels suffocated? I mean, she just might not be as much of a romantic as you are, you know? And that in no way means she doesn't love you. It's just some are more romantic than others.

 

I think the definition of a real man, at it's core is simply a man who defines himself. And refuses to let others define him.

[Ruby Slippers]

RubySlippers,

 

In my current relationship, I always tell my girlfriend that I just want to make happy and see her smile. I am VERY romantic, and every two weeks send her cute greeting cards filled with messages and etc. With all this 'relationship' giving, I have heard that I need to now 'back off' to show some masculine superiority. Why is it in our culture a man can not be a hopeless romantic!

"Hopeless romantic" is a meaningless phrase. What does that mean? Hopeless? Who wants to be with someone hopeless? Romance is fine, but you need to be realistic and get things done, too.

 

Is it true that you "just" want to make her happy and see her smile? Surely you want something for yourself, too? She is not your child and does not need entertainment and coddling. She can make herself happy. Let her make you smile sometimes. People who try too hard are compensating for a perceived inadequacy. They think people will only like them if they go over the top, and not if they just relax and be themselves.

 

Sweet greetings are nice, but I guarantee you she'd prefer a good, crazy roll in the hay now and then instead of some of those sweet greetings.

[Ruby Slippers]

So many things in this thread point to the fact that a strong male role model is very important for a boy so why do some people seem to promote fatherlessness as a big statement of female independence? Why do we as a society continue to see fathers as disposable sperm donors when it is obvious they are much more?

Of all the crap I have seen people spew on this board, I have never seen anyone talk about fathers being disposable except for YOU. You seem to have a fixation with the idea.

 

Fathers also matter much to women as well. If you look at these women who seem incapabe of having a healthy relationship with a man 9 times out 10 you will find some father issues in there.

I had a pretty crummy dad, and it definitely left some scars. Nothing I can do about that, except heal them the best I can, which is what I have been doing all my life.

 

I think that good fathers (and good mothers, for that matter) are rare gems. Most people don't really know what they're doing, and this includes parents.

[Ruby Slippers]

These are the types of discussions i like.

 

Tell me, taking the media's view out of it. What do you think a real man is?

Hi, MrNate.

 

To me, a "real man" is essentially the same as a "real woman": he's a person who is true to himself and who lives a life that has meaning and joy for him. Because he is self-sufficient and whole on his own, he has love to give the people in his life he cares about. He doesn't NEED those people, so he doesn't cling to them in desperation. He is complete, so he can give love, and receive it, without grabbing and squeezing the life out of it because he is afraid of losing it.