Newbie OW Rant

[MsDelilah]

No. You have choices. He did not take your choices away.

 

He can call you all day long, but if you CHOOSE to engage with him that's ON YOU.

 

You teach people how to treat you. To continue to have a relationship with him after he has told you BIG BIG lies tells him that you have low standards. You will accept (and even reward) poor treatment.

 

You teach people how to treat you.

 

You have taught him that he can lie. He can lie again and again. And he can throw some attention your way and you will be right back in it. He knows your standards are low.

 

Guys like this are not going to go away on their own. They will happily take whatever you are willing to offer. They lie, get caught, and all they have to do is "spoil you" and you will be there, offering yourself up to them. Why would he give you up for good? You have low expectations, and that is perfect for what he looking for.

 

Have strong boundaries. You can block emails. You can ignore his calls. You do have choices. To think that you have lost YOUR choices, just because HE has chosen to pursue you is sad. It is HIS CHOICE to pursue. But it is your CHOICE to engage. You are letting yourself get played.

 

Don't give your power away to a liar and a cheat. You determine what you will tolerate. You are focusing on him, and missing out on the single guys that could actually offer you something. Try and figure out why you think a married man's "love" and attention is something to value. Why don't you want more for yourself?

 

You don't have to answer. Just something to think about.

 

No no no - I realize I have choices now that I have the truth. But when he lied he took my choice to participate away from me at that time. Which is a big deal in my moral code, and he knows the reason for that. Consent is everything.

 

And I'm not really missing out - I've been dating on and off for the past year and half (including the year he was hanging on before I found out), but he is still my "favorite" of the bunch. Even with the lying - which I admit has been a huge turnoff - the history of our friendship and intimate r'ship is still there. I don't feel sexual about him near as often - but what we did have I miss.

 

And it's not just any married man - lord knows I get enough of them honestly throwing themselves at me....it's this particular man. And I need to get over him. Problem is, I haven't gotten sick of him yet. Usually it's a lot easier.

[MsDelilah]

Ms_Delilah, I'm not really interested in lecturing you on the moral stuff, your story is no worse than others we've seen and lots of other posters will address those things with you.

 

On a purely selfish think-of-yourself POV, I'm not convinced you're getting as much from this R as you think you are.

 

If you were your best friend, or sister, or closest work colleague and you were asked to write a list of things you need, for a R to be successful for you (whether part-time or not.... I know a few people in serious but part-time Rs) I don't think this R fits the bill. I think there is a lot of justification and compromise going on here.

 

It feels as though you're sticking by him because you don't know you could do better...? Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

If this guy came with a relationship CV and applied for the post of Man in Your Life, I don't think he'd get through the first round....

 

I've done the pro and con list - and I am very clear on the basics of what I need. I know there has to be someone that fits the bill. On other character traits - he is totally the Man for My Life. It's the lying. And maybe if he'd learned the lesson the first time around, things would be ok, but he was jsut too stupid and kept lying. That's the part that gets me and makes me feel sorry for him. It's not behavior I can condone.

 

That doesn't stop me from missing him for everything else - but that is not something I'm willing to work with. And if he wanted me to work with him, he'd have to a. stop lying, and b. start making up for it. I've got no problem being alone if I'm not getting my way.

[MsDelilah]

I don't think you're a slut and I didn't say you were. I do think you are getting the shyte end of the stick. I''m not entirely sure how you can find a man who has proven himself to be a liar time and time again trustworthy.

 

I'm sorry that you have allowed your experience of being cheated on to define your romantic life. I've been cheated on, too, and recently realized that I've allowed that experience to keep me from getting close to any man. While I've been sitting around with my heart closed, my ex had married and had kids. I feel like a fool for giving his past actions that much control over my present life. Like me, you're giving the ten year-old actions of an immature man too much power.

 

I get that you're jaded, but that's no reason to inflict the pain you've suffered on someone else. You probably think you're "safer" seeing a married man because you won't get hurt--he can't cheat on you if he's not yours, right?--but really you're setting yourself up for immense heartbreak.

 

It's time for you to heal and move on from what happened in your 20's.

 

Well thank you - this is a very good response. I know that the garbage from my 20s definitely has jacked me up in a lot of ways. And has set me up for this situation, because if I had been willing to want someone in my life on a full-time basis, I would have seen right through him. But because I prefer my space and distance, I allowed myself to get conned.

 

As for safer - not "safer" seeing any old married man. Just "safer" seeing this man, because I already know him, and despite what people here say about the perceived "specialness" of affairs, there are definitely things we have with each other, that are unique to he and I. Things that are difficult to find elsewhere (believe me I've tried). And I feel like - if we got past the lying and he was willing to rebuild my trust, and we could define boundaries that kept everything else stable - we could still get the things we need from each other and be better people for everyone else in our lives.

 

I know everyone is flabbergasted that i'm able to look past the lying (given the right circumstances). But i don't think that people are "all bad" or "all good" - it's too black and white. Violating my trust and being a liar - very bad things - but that doesn't translate to very bad person. I'd like to have faith that he's not a "very bad person". I know he's "a good man in a storm" when it comes down to it. He'd be the guy to run into a burning building and save children and kittens. That's the character trait I admire. And one I value in the people I keep around me. Is that lessened by the fact that he cheats on his wife? Not really - both of those cohabit the same person and are not mutually exclusive. And no one is beyond redemption, if they want it.

 

If redemption for him is making his current marriage better - more power to him. If it's finding a way to keep me in his life - that can be done too. I know the purpose I serve for him. And if he is willing to fulfill what I require of him, despite everything else, I'm going to accept it.

[bentnotbroken]

If this guy is so miserable in his marriage, why did he have another child with his wife?

 

Makes no sense to me...

 

he's lying to you, and you are choosing not to see what is right in front of your face...his marriage may not be wonderful but it can't be all that bad either...

 

this guy sounds like a real user, and you don't need that in your life, do you?

 

 

She doesn't need it but she says she would take him back if he does what she wants(buy, suck up, whatever).

[Carrot2000]

And I feel like - if we got past the lying and he was willing to rebuild my trust, and we could define boundaries that kept everything else stable - we could still get the things we need from each other and be better people for everyone else in our lives.

 

I don't think cheating on his wife and stealing time and resources away from his babies will somehow make him a better husband and a father.

 

As far as stability, a relationship built on continued deception can never be stable. I know you say telling a lie doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person, but this guy is doing more than telling a lie, he's living a lie. He's lying to his wife. He's lying to his kids. He's lying to everyone in his family and community who thinks he's a decent guy. Truthfully, he's lying about who he really is as a person. Maybe he's not the guy who would rush into a burning house to save kittens; he's lied so much about things you can't really be sure of his true character. How could he possibly rebuild your trust when the truth ain't in him?

 

You didn't tolerate a lying, cheating boyfriend 10 years ago, and I think you're doing yourself a disservice in accepting this kind of behavior now.

[BB07]

OP, you've posted that despite the lies that this man is a good man. You know I remember that stage, I recall hanging on to things that later I knew didn't makes sense. You aren't seeing it now because you don't want to because it sucks to have to accept that you've been played for a fool by a con man........but honey you have. A man.........who tells lies that are that deep, twisted and profound is NOT a good man. You do not yet realize the scope of the lies and how many more there are, that is why I told you to hire a PI or talk to the wife. Con man........are so very good at working you, mine was, yours is. Mine had everyone believing that he was this kind, wonderful man. Your mm is a con man....he is NOT some poor confused, misguided, conflicted man who deep inside loves you.

 

I hope you soon pull your head out of the sand and stop hanging on to the fallacy that he is a good man despite the lies. He is not........go ahead and prove it.

[SoleMate]

What if all I really want is one good sexually intimate friend I can trust?

It would be helpful to really think through the contradictions in SAYING you want a trustworthy friend, then CHOOSING someone who has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he is a shocking liar and deceiver.

 

Does that make me a slut or something?

Nobody called you a slut and I doubt if anyone thought it either. Reading these posts, I see a lot of concern for your wellbeing and desire to help you see what is wrong with your situation so you can improve it.

 

I am NOT a BS and not an OW either. I have great sympathy for both and I try to provide the best advice I can to whoever posts. Affairs are very damaging to both OW and BS. A key difference is that the OW can just walk away and choose a healthier r/s down the road. The BS cannot without a lawyer and a legal struggle, and may not want to, choosing instead to try to preserve what remains of her marriage and family.

[NoIDidn't]

Welcome to LS, MSDelilah (love the name).

 

I don't want to repeat what has already been said, and get that this is a rant....

 

But I do wonder. You have stated that his lying to you was hugely against your moral code, and yet you continue to let him excuse his way back into your life. He didn't even bother to tell you that his W was pregnant. He probably didn't even offer much resistance to you saying you were going to walk. He was probably grateful as it meant he could spend more time home while you cooled off.

 

He has hugely disrespected you. But I know exactly where you are coming from. You are angry and jaded and seem to be hoping that his W will realize how horrible he is and kick him to the curb too. I don't think you want this man at all. I think you enjoy yanking his chain and the threat that you are to his facade of family man. But you will get hurt. Very hurt, if you aren't already.

 

Have you ever visited a therapist? You sound so hurt and angry, but also like you want and need more but don't know how to get it from an available man. The therapist might be able to help you see the dynamic that you aren't aware of in your life. You want more. You deserve more. And you will have it, but only when you break this harmful pattern from your life.

 

Your posts that say so much pain. I wish you peace and a respite from hurting.

[MsDelilah]

This occurred to me today as I was going about my day - trying to figure out my true motivations.

 

Plainly put, I don't want to get rid of him. I'm not done with him yet. I let go of my ex, because I was done with him. Until then, he was "mine". This one is "mine" too, regardless of the circumstances of his life, the lies, the trickery. Actually all that jacked up stuff just fuels my need to "win" even more. And by win - I don't mean win him. By win I mean break him.

 

It is a little wrathful but I'm a Force of Nature. I warned him ahead of time, but he thought he could toy with me. 4 years later, it's me always walking away, and him upping the ante. And basically the spoiling thing...that's me pushing a little more.

 

I don't want total ownership, and I will definitely toss him without a backwards glance when I tire of him, but for now..."mine". And he knows it and I know it.

 

I know this - I don't really wanna steal him from his wife. She can keep him, she can put up with the whining and the dirty laundry and the feeding of the beast. But if he really truly wants to be this guy...well be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

 

I've always been a little too "nice" to voice that out loud, but there it is.

 

Yes I'm angry, yeah i prolly need therapy - but frankly I'm sick to death of these lying cheating *******s and their lame ass stories over and over again. I gave open-hearted trusting a chance again, and even with full disclosure he decided to **** with me.

 

Oh and just to be clear - I'm not talking about violence, or stalking or anything at all in that vein. Just the same old manipulation he tried to dish out, except done better, because I'm a woman.

[Silly_Girl]

Your need for revenge, potentially over your own emotional wellbeing (given what he's already put you through) is interesting. I wonder if you might find yourself cutting off your nose to spite your face...

[bentnotbroken]

This occurred to me today as I was going about my day - trying to figure out my true motivations.

 

Plainly put, I don't want to get rid of him. I'm not done with him yet. I let go of my ex, because I was done with him. Until then, he was "mine". This one is "mine" too, regardless of the circumstances of his life, the lies, the trickery. Actually all that jacked up stuff just fuels my need to "win" even more. And by win - I don't mean win him. By win I mean break him.

 

It is a little wrathful but I'm a Force of Nature. I warned him ahead of time, but he thought he could toy with me. 4 years later, it's me always walking away, and him upping the ante. And basically the spoiling thing...that's me pushing a little more.

 

I don't want total ownership, and I will definitely toss him without a backwards glance when I tire of him, but for now..."mine". And he knows it and I know it.

 

I know this - I don't really wanna steal him from his wife. She can keep him, she can put up with the whining and the dirty laundry and the feeding of the beast. But if he really truly wants to be this guy...well be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

 

I've always been a little too "nice" to voice that out loud, but there it is.

 

Yes I'm angry, yeah i prolly need therapy - but frankly I'm sick to death of these lying cheating *******s and their lame ass stories over and over again. I gave open-hearted trusting a chance again, and even with full disclosure he decided to **** with me.

 

Oh and just to be clear - I'm not talking about violence, or stalking or anything at all in that vein. Just the same old manipulation he tried to dish out, except done better, because I'm a woman.

 

 

 

Where are all the AP who say you can't claim ownership of another person. Her she is, makes me said for those of us who have sons.

[bentnotbroken]

Your need for revenge, potentially over your own emotional wellbeing (given what he's already put you through) is interesting. I wonder if you might find yourself cutting off your nose to spite your face...

 

 

Cross posted with you. Thank you for pointing that out.

[phillyfan]

If he wants to be with her, well he can carry on with the same miserable marriage that made him my boyfriend for 4 years. If she's willing to stay in that situation and let him knock her up over and over again, that's her choice too (when I was in her position, it sure as heck wasn't mine). QUOTE]

 

Dude WTF are u doin?! The Wife dont know about u, she is livin her life happy and u are not on her radar. Shes havin babies with her man, that is what married ppl do, clearly thy r not miserable thy r very happy, n clearly he acts really nice to her. Theres no reason for her 2 think theres someone else plus he dont seem 2 spend much time wit u anyway.

 

Take some frickin responsibility for ur life - he lied 2 u for 4 yrs, u take him back, he lies again, u take him back, his wife has babies, u take him back, he offers to help u wit ur house n dosnt turn up - n u tell u ud take him back if he can prove he can give u a good affair?! WTF are u doing with ur life?! U act like ur life isnt worth a dam thing. Move on, this dude is a user.

[Carrot2000]

Actually all that jacked up stuff just fuels my need to "win" even more. And by win - I don't mean win him. By win I mean break him.

 

So you want to bring him to his knees. Why? Especially since a few pages back you said the two of you had something unique and special?

 

I think you're still trying to get a handle on what it is you want from this relationship, and that's okay. Hopefully, posting here (and keeping a thick skin when you get smacked with a few 2x4's) will help you sort your feelings out.

[Woggle]

Doesn't this whole revenge mission seem like a huge waste of time? Just drop him and move on. That will piss him off the most.

[love4me2c]

You seem like an intelligent woman. I'm not sure why you would want a relationship like this? Why not try and find a single guy that has the qualities you seek? Find someone that has a lot of hobbies or travels a lot for a living? There are guys out there looking for the same type of freedom you want, too.

 

More often than not, you'll have invested your time, effort, and energy that will turn into nothing sacred or real. He'll ultimately get caught and either throw you under the bus or divorce sans you. Is that really what you want? I see no positive outcome for you at all except for maybe a few pairs of frilly panties.

[NoIDidn't]

This occurred to me today as I was going about my day - trying to figure out my true motivations.

 

Plainly put, I don't want to get rid of him. I'm not done with him yet. I let go of my ex, because I was done with him. Until then, he was "mine". This one is "mine" too, regardless of the circumstances of his life, the lies, the trickery. Actually all that jacked up stuff just fuels my need to "win" even more. And by win - I don't mean win him. By win I mean break him.

 

It is a little wrathful but I'm a Force of Nature. I warned him ahead of time, but he thought he could toy with me. 4 years later, it's me always walking away, and him upping the ante. And basically the spoiling thing...that's me pushing a little more.

 

I don't want total ownership, and I will definitely toss him without a backwards glance when I tire of him, but for now..."mine". And he knows it and I know it.

 

I know this - I don't really wanna steal him from his wife. She can keep him, she can put up with the whining and the dirty laundry and the feeding of the beast. But if he really truly wants to be this guy...well be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

 

I've always been a little too "nice" to voice that out loud, but there it is.

 

Yes I'm angry, yeah i prolly need therapy - but frankly I'm sick to death of these lying cheating *******s and their lame ass stories over and over again. I gave open-hearted trusting a chance again, and even with full disclosure he decided to **** with me.

 

Oh and just to be clear - I'm not talking about violence, or stalking or anything at all in that vein. Just the same old manipulation he tried to dish out, except done better, because I'm a woman.

 

I really appreciate your honesty. This is pretty much what I picked up from your first post in this thread: that you just want to own him and get revenge for ever being with any men like him. Again, I've been there. Ever heard the saying that hatred (or jealousy or revenge, for that matter) is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die? That's what you are doing right now.

 

I have no idea what your total motivation is, and I suspect you don't either. But I never said you "needed" therapy. I do believe that you can "benefit" from it.

 

He's not worth the game that its turned into for you. I played this game once before too, and while I didn't get burned, I did hurt myself and my image of myself. Don't let the past hurts turn you into a predator that hunts cheaters to teach them lessons, or prove something to yourself or them.

 

They aren't worth it.

[whichwayisup]

Plainly put, I don't want to get rid of him. I'm not done with him yet.

And obviously he's done with his wife, nor his wife with him..

 

I let go of my ex, because I was done with him. Until then, he was "mine". This one is "mine" too, regardless of the circumstances of his life, the lies, the trickery. Actually all that jacked up stuff just fuels my need to "win" even more. And by win - I don't mean win him. By win I mean break him.

 

The thing is about revenge..It may feel good while you doing it, but later you'll regret it. You don't seem like a person who would willingly and knowingly hurt and mess with someone on purpose. Why bother with him? Keep in mind too, he may want revenge on you afterwards and mess in your life in ways you won't like at all. What goes around, comes around..

 

Best revenge is to walk away and never look back. Let him wonder.. You live well and be happy.

[tink08]

So to play Devil's advocate to your apparent value judgement...what if all i'm really interested in is a "wet behind"? I make my own money, I have my own house. I've got male friends to take care of the other manly stuff that needs doing. What if all I really want is one good sexually intimate friend I can trust? (not to say it's him, but that was his intended purpose in my life) Does that make me a slut or something?

 

 

If all you're really interested in is a "wet behind" then why would you say he needs to "spoil" you to make up for it????

Face the facts: he LIES consistently, you CAN'T trust him and if you want a sexually intimate friend you can trust..find a new guy....and not a married one.