Why dating and relationship experience is irrevelant to how good a lover you will be

May 15, 2011

The problems with threads like this is that people forget alot of factors when it comes to subjects like this. Virginity and inexperience is honestly not an issue but people make it an issue because they feel like it.

Put it like this. If you as a man or a woman met someone who is WONDERFUL in every way and form but did not have no experience. Would it bother you?

Are you really the type of person dumb enough to toss someone aside as relationship material because they are virgins but are overall wonderful as a person?

If sex is that much of a priority to you for that to happen. You don't need to be in a relationship. Just sleep around.

May 15, 2011

[/i]No, I don't fail to see why.

It's because they won't take responsibility for their decisions. They shift the blame on others even though there were never any tricks, secrets, surprises about how this works. They turn it into a pathology and allow it as an excuse to keep themselves from having to work and take risks and achieve the things they want.
OP, the fact that you are a virgin is a situation you have gotten yourself into, and have thus far kept that way. It's probably due to a lot of factors but there is no one to blame; and if there is someone to blame, it's yourself.

It's a problem for you, so plan a solution and enact it. That doesn't just mean "go get laid man." I would rather you do the harder task and simply get over it -- genuinely accept that it's okay that you're virgin. It's only because you are insecure about this that comments from a random stranger on an internet message board would affect you.

Think about how many different people are on this board, dude. All walks of life on here; so many people I would never meet in the context of my daily life, that I get along with and highly enjoy speaking to on LS. But there are also a lot of different opinions from faceless people that are much harder to filter. That girl who PM'd you is probably a girl you wouldn't be interested in if met saw her in person. Clearly you have different value systems -- so how was a simple difference in perspective translated into something that deeply hurt your feelings? You should unpack that, because the issue here is not what other people have to say, it's you -- or, probably more accurately, what you have to say about yourself.

Here's the real deal: people who aren't inexperienced themselves have no idea what it's like to be inexperienced. The OP's problem (and several other people's) is a problem much easier to prevent than it is to fix once it's happened.

The issue I have with putting the blame on the OP is it implies that he made a conscious decision to be an older virgin. I don't think that's the case.

Getting over it is not as easy as you make it sound. This is what I mean by these threads becoming excuses to bash older virgins for "choosing" their fate.

May 15, 2011

The problems with threads like this is that people forget alot of factors when it comes to subjects like this. Virginity and inexperience is honestly not an issue but people make it an issue because they feel like it.

Put it like this. If you as a man or a woman met someone who is WONDERFUL in every way and form but did not have no experience. Would it bother you?

Are you really the type of person dumb enough to toss someone aside as relationship material because they are virgins but are overall wonderful as a person?

If sex is that much of a priority to you for that to happen. You don't need to be in a relationship. Just sleep around.

I am so glad you made this post. A few of the poster's here are making me feel inadequate. I want to find somebody and be loved just like they do. I deserve it too.

When I lost my virginity at 19, the guy wasn't even patient with me, and I was only a teenager. Even at that age, guys were used to being with girls who had a much more experience already. Life is so unfair. I wish I would have gotten lucky and had one of those patient guys

May 15, 2011

Here's the real deal: people who aren't inexperienced themselves have no idea what it's like to be inexperienced. The OP's problem (and several other people's) is a problem much easier to prevent than it is to fix once it's happened.

They may not know the precise pain, but we all know hardship. The OP's problem is not nothing but it is aggravating to read deflection of any kind when this issue in particular is so wholly personal.

The issue I have with putting the blame on the OP is it implies that he made a conscious decision to be an older virgin. I don't think that's the case.

I agree with you.

Getting over it is not as easy as you make it sound. This is what I mean by these threads becoming excuses to bash older virgins for "choosing" their fate.

I don't think I implied that it was easy; I certainly didn't mean to. In fact I specifically said it was the harder route. It is also the route to happiness. Many posters on LS, including myself, have issues that are similarly personal which prevent them from happiness. The answer is always acceptance and improvement -- otherwise, by definition, the conflict will remain untreated and the OP will continue to suffer. The first step is admitting you have a problem.

May 15, 2011

welike, my problem is that I don't ask out women.

Why don't I ask out women? Simply because of the reasons I've argued in this thread: 28, virgin, never been kissed/had a girlfriend, live at home, don't have a job, etc.

Look, I just moved back home 3 months ago. Before that, I lived on my own and had a job, for 3 years. I also was very active in that community that I lived in.

The reason I moved back home, was because of my grandma, who was getting sick. I moved back home to help my mom take care of her. I gave up my job, in order to do that. And now, I can't even find work, which means I can't get another apartment, which means I'm stuck here until I do (my mom refuses to pay my bills anymore, and I don't want her to.)

Surely, this holds up the argument that it's not right to date now. But if not now, when? I'm so goddamn lonely, and I'm not getting any younger. I suffer from depression because of this issue, and I don't want to end up 40 years old and in the same situation.

I've seen therapists because of my social anxiety. They got me over my hump; I no longer have SA. However, how am I supposed to excuse my situation NOW? "I live at home with mom and grandma, I have never dated and kissed a girl, and I'm perfectly normal"? She's going to go, "Yeah, you're normal. Next!"

It's strictly because of these stigmatas that I don't ask out women. If they weren't stigmatas, I would have asked out at least 5 cute girls I've met, around my age, in the past two weeks. However, I said nothing, because...what is there to say?

May 15, 2011

Stop telling ppl that you have never been kissed or have sex silly! Promise, if you don't tell the women you are pursuing you have a better chance of finding somebody.

May 15, 2011

Are you really ok with yourself being a virgin? It seems to me you resent being a virgin and feel powerless to change this status?

May 15, 2011

I don't think I implied that it was easy; I certainly didn't mean to. In fact I specifically said it was the harder route. It is also the route to happiness. Many posters on LS, including myself, have issues that are similarly personal which prevent them from happiness. The answer is always acceptance and improvement -- otherwise, by definition, the conflict will remain untreated and the OP will continue to suffer. The first step is admitting you have a problem.

I think this is the heart of the matter. I think most inexperienced guys (myself included) have no idea why it is so hard for us to get dates and relationships. I mean the implied message I got growing up was that if you took care of yourself (stayed in shape, got an education etc.), were reasonably good looking, were genuinely nice (meaning you weren't a serial killer), and weren't a complete homebody that you would inevitably find someone with similar interests and values as yourself. When this doesn't happen you get to feeling like maybe the world really is out to get you and that there must be some sinister conspiracy to keep you from dating. It's come to a point for me where I don't even try anymore because I feel like it's a lost cause. I know this isn't the solution but it takes a lot of energy to get up every morning and tell yourself to keep trying (it's like being a Lions fan and telling yourself that this is the year you'll finally win the Super Bowl).

Obviously part of this is an exaggeration, but not by much. If you look at the (anecdotal) evidence it becomes kind of clear why guys like the OP get a little bitter.

May 15, 2011

I never had an issue with my virginity, but I think my virginity is for different reasons than the male posters here. No one would ever think I'm a virgin in a million years.

May 15, 2011

welike, my problem is that I don't ask out women.

...

It's strictly because of these stigmatas that I don't ask out women. If they weren't stigmatas, I would have asked out at least 5 cute girls I've met, around my age, in the past two weeks. However, I said nothing, because...what is there to say?

stigmatas

Well, I know which religion you don't belong to.

Look man, you have a complex situation going on, and it's no wonder that you have complex feelings about it. You also have some things working against you.

There's not a right answer or a solution to this. But if you think you can handle a partner right now, then you said it yourself: the only thing stopping you is that you aren't trying.

Don't worry about what you think girls will typically want or expect, etc. Aside from the fact that it leaves your happiness and sense of personal achievement in the hands of other people, you just don't know whom you're going to meet, and what they're about, and why they might think you are the perfect person to take out at that moment. Frame it instead of what you want, what sort of relationship you're looking for. Then meet girls and see if they fit. Take the risks and get rejected hundreds of times; you've heard that advice countless times before, but it's the only way to learn.

May 15, 2011

I never had an issue with my virginity, but I think my virginity is for different reasons than the male posters here. No one would ever think I'm a virgin in a million years.

And what reason do you have for being a virgin? To be honest none of my friends (save for the select few that I've told) think I'm a virgin either.

May 15, 2011

And what reason do you have for being a virgin? To be honest none of my friends (save for the select few that I've told) think I'm a virgin either.

I never put in any effort. I didn't have the best childhood and I just didn't try. No one(outside of LS) even knows I'm a virgin and they'd probably think I'm full of sh*t if I said I was.

May 15, 2011

Secondly, yeah, it makes a difference, but again, not as much as everything else does. I would rather spend 3 months working with a willing, eager, well-read partner with a compatible sex drive but no experience, rather than a person who has experience but is unwilling to learn, try new things, or get his partner off before himself. Oh, and who thinks vaginal intercourse is the end all be all of sex. I'm still amazed how many 'experienced' men believe that.

Ditto! I'd rather have a unexperienced partner who's willing to figure out what we both enjoy, than the experienced partner who thinks he already knows it all and assumes that what worked for his previous girlfriends works for me. (Been there, done that, and wasn't at all satisfied. I bet more than a few past girlfriends faked it, which doesn't help with learning from 'experience'.)

I think people nowadays are too caught up in the dream of instant perfection - nay, not just the dream, but the expectation and the feeling that the world owes it to them. They refuse to 'waste 3 months teaching someone how to make love to them', believing that they are entitled to instant good sex, amongst everything else they require of a partner. They refuse to date the person who's still 20 lbs heavier than she should be but has already lost 50 lbs and will in all likelihood lose the 20lbs in the future. They refuse to date the med school student struggling with student loan debt even though they themselves put accomplished doctors on a pedestal.

Ditto on this, too.

The problems with threads like this is that people forget alot of factors when it comes to subjects like this. Virginity and inexperience is honestly not an issue but people make it an issue because they feel like it.

Put it like this. If you as a man or a woman met someone who is WONDERFUL in every way and form but did not have no experience. Would it bother you?

Are you really the type of person dumb enough to toss someone aside as relationship material because they are virgins but are overall wonderful as a person?

If sex is that much of a priority to you for that to happen. You don't need to be in a relationship. Just sleep around.

Ditto again.

Sorry if I'm not adding anything new, but no need to reinvent the wheel or rewrite good advice and insight. I will, however, repeat it.

Edited May 15, 2011 by NoMagicBullet
Clarification

May 15, 2011

I'm confused. You say you don't want to be a 40 year old virgin, but at the same time, you say you don't want to do anything to change that? You can't get laid, or enter into a relationship, without talking to another person. You are showing us a problem, but with no solution (according to you).

I think you need to decide which outcome you want, and stick with it. I understand that you think it's all very black and white, but it isn't. If a girl asks you where you live, you don't have to say "With my mom." You can say "I moved back home with my mom so I could help her take care of my grandmother." Simple, to the point, and true. What woman wouldn't appreciate that?

As far as your argument goes about being judged, we are all judged for something. If you were a 28 year old who had his own apartment and was sexually experienced, I guarantee there would be something else to complain about.

I'm not trying to dumb down your situation at all, and I really hope you don't think that's what i'm trying to do. What i'm saying is that we all have our issues. This, just as everyone elses, is an issue. You have two choices. Fix it, or learn to live with it. If you sit around and complain about it, without doing anything about it, then you are choosing to live with it.

May 15, 2011

I'm not trying to trivialize the issue. But the good news is once you do get experience, the lack of experience will be a thing of the past. This is not a permanent issue that will hound you forever, unlike other issues people have. A few years from now, you could be living independently, have a job you enjoy, and a GF. Not saying it's all going to be easy or that you can easily chart your path from here to there. But it's very very possible. I've known guys who had never gotten married to finally meet a woman and settle down in their mid-40s. Inexperience is not a life sentence.

And I still stand by my signature

May 15, 2011

And how do you suggest that a virgin man get rid of said negative trait? Given the logic displayed in threads like these to logical conclusion is that he doesn't. He just merely accepts his fate. But, maybe you have a different answer.

You have sex. Simply. I didn't say it was not possible, or it makes you a lesser person. But it is still a negative point.

May 15, 2011

In fact, let's all compare the older virgins to 13 year olds. How about that athlete, who was 33 and got married and was a virgin. Or how about the 26 year old, who didn't kiss a girl until his wedding day (saw that on YouTube?) Are they less mature than the 13 year old, who has done all that?

Can you see how irrational your argument is? I'm trying to convince you of something. Everyone else has gotten it, but perhaps, since your username is "utterer of lies", you're so used to believing them that you can't see the truth, even when someone spells it out for you.

It's not about maturity. It's about lacking experience in an important area.

If you don't have this experience, you will have to gain it, to learn. While this might be interesting an interesting journey for both partners, I have learned to value this experience. I've had inexperienced girlfriends, and I remember being inexperienced myself. There are just a lot of small and big things you need to learn which you cannot learn from books or the internet.

May 15, 2011

I don't think you can always tell. If you put in effort so that person won't know they wont be able to tell the diff

I don't think you should lie about it. Here's why:

If your together with your partner for the first time, and it's not as good as you both might have hoped. If he knows you are very inexperienced he might just 'blame' that, and hope you will learn in the future.

If you lie and tell him you are experienced (lets pretend he wouldn't notice), he might just think you are bad in bed, or incompatible. This is a much worse outcome.

May 15, 2011

Ditto! I'd rather have a unexperienced partner who's willing to figure out what we both enjoy, than the experienced partner who thinks he already knows it all and assumes that what worked for his previous girlfriends works for me.

But a lack of communication in sex as in other things can happen with anyone. While an experienced person might not communicate properly because of arrogance, a very inexperienced person might not because of shame.

But this ability to communicate desires and preferences does not lessen with experience, I guess in most cases there's a positive correlation.

May 15, 2011

-Having friendships with women is relationship experience.

-Asking a woman out and being shot down is dating experience.

-Being comfortable with giving yourself an orgasm is sexual experience.

Claim the experience you already have as relationship/sexual experience. My BF who is relatively inexperienced told me his relationship history. He included women who he dated, but didn't get sexual with.

To be honest, I didn't listen too closely to his relationship history. I knew he had less experience, but I didn't notice it. I was too busy being worried about my lack of practice.

But please Muse man, ask somebody out. This isn't about finding your soul mate, it's about meeting your first love.

May 15, 2011

Yes people are judgmental, and its about a great many things. The key is to be ok with who you are and not let fear stop you from trying! You haven’t been trying, now is the time to start. Just because you were one way yesterday doesn’t mean you have to be that way today.

May 15, 2011

But a lack of communication in sex as in other things can happen with anyone. While an experienced person might not communicate properly because of arrogance, a very inexperienced person might not because of shame.

But this ability to communicate desires and preferences does not lessen with experience, I guess in most cases there's a positive correlation.

Bottom line is, someone who's experienced who doesn't listen to what they're partner is trying to communicate is still a worse lover than someone without experience who will listen, at least in the long term. If you only want a ONS, then sure, go with the 'experienced' lover.

You may disagree, but remember it's different for you. You're a male with female partners. Women don't usually approach sex in the same manner as men.

Things look different from the female perspective. "Experience" does not equate to "good lover", especially when a man has been doing the same things for years. Experienced people can easily fall into habits of doing what worked before, and sometimes past lovers have reinforced a man's bad habits by faking orgasms. Few men can handle the bruised ego that comes with hearing "this isn't working for me" when it's what he's done, supposedly with success, with other women before. So better communication with age is not a given either, at least not from what I've seen.

Maybe for you, a sexually experienced partner is more desirable than one who isn't, and that's fine. But I won't buy into a general philosophy that a person with that experience is going to be better than one without it.

May 15, 2011

Stop telling ppl that you have never been kissed or have sex silly! Promise, if you don't tell the women you are pursuing you have a better chance of finding somebody.

I don't believe that this is true either. I would have no problems being with someone less experienced. I wouldn't place judgements either. Everyone moves at there own pace.

May 15, 2011

Bottom line is, someone who's experienced who doesn't listen to what they're partner is trying to communicate is still a worse lover than someone without experience who will listen, at least in the long term.

I fully agree.

Things look different from the female perspective. "Experience" does not equate to "good lover", especially when a man has been doing the same things for years. Experienced people can easily fall into habits of doing what worked before, and sometimes past lovers have reinforced a man's bad habits by faking orgasms. Few men can handle the bruised ego that comes with hearing "this isn't working for me" when it's what he's done, supposedly with success, with other women before. So better communication with age is not a given either, at least not from what I've seen.

That's true, too. But personally I noticed that experienced girls have less complexes and inhibitions when talking about sex.

But I won't buy into a general philosophy that a person with that experience is going to be better than one without it.

I never said that. But a person with experience is preferable to one without, all other things equal. Which they never are in reality, and I doubt someone would break contact to a girl he's interested in just because she's inexperienced.

May 16, 2011

Do you fail to see the hypocrisy here? People treat virgins as inferior, or make fun of them, or won't date them.

The reason for this is because, virgins are seen this way by people who have been with multiple partners, or perhaps had been promiscuous in their sexual lifestyle.

And when they come across a person like this, well, it's just a reminder of how bad they feel about having had lead such a lifestyle. And somehow turn that guilt into something else, like making fun of virgins.

This is no different than those who drink a lot to make fun of those at parties that drink little or none at all. They are VERY uncomfortable around people like this, because of their own regrets of having lead such a lifestyle, that they perhaps should've waited longer before getting laid in their car in Highschool, and the umpteen times they did it in college.Even adults do this.They somehow judge the virgin for their misgivings from the past, and they probably get even the feeling a virgin wouldn't be good enough for them. The idea of them having had 20 sex partners or so and then the very thought of sleeping with a virgin, panics them, being around someone like this would just make them feel bad about themselves and would be a reminder of how they've not lead the kind of life the virgin did.

It's kind of sad when someone doesn't find someone being a virgin as "sweet and romantic that someone is saving themselves" as someone that has the Scarlett letter.

Imagine how the tides turned, now , the Scarlett letter is for the virgin.

The Scarlett Letter is no longer an "A", but a "V". :

Edited May 16, 2011 by irc333

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