Why dating and relationship experience is irrevelant to how good a lover you will be

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

This will be a long post, so I apologize in advance.

 

Constantly, I hear from women that they need to know about a man's prior relationships. The only question I have to ask is...why? Why do you need to know that?

 

People are constantly changing and evolving. If someone was a complete ass 2 years ago, and then turned over a new leaf, he's not going to treat you the same way that he treated his prior girlfriend. And therefore, you shouldn't dump him because he treated his prior girlfriend that way. Some people needed therapy to get over stuff like that...but is that something you want to share within the first three dates?

 

Same thing with virginity. What makes someone who's had lots of sex, better in the sack than someone who has no prior sexual experience? Some guys are like wham-bam-thank you ma'am. And then, some virgins (like me for instance) read up on the female anatomy, know lots of scientific data about orgasms and etc, and would try to PLEASE her, rather than just please myself. How does that make someone like me, or anyone who's a virgin, any different than someone who's had 30 or more sexual partners?

 

People are judgmental, that's for damn sure. But the truth is that everyone is different, therefore everyone has different experiences. I just had a pm from someone, who I argued with on here. She said she would never date someone like me, because she dated someone who lived at home and was a virgin, and she was miserable. Well, I shot her back a pm saying, "How does this relate to ME?" And honestly, it doesn't. I am not and don't even know her previous boyfriend, therefore I will not act like him, and all she's doing by ruling me out (I think she's in a relationship, but if she was single, she would rule me out) is ruling out someone based on a shallow statistic that doesn't even relate to the person who's in the statistic!

 

Let's bring an example in here, shall we? Let's say I have a bad experience with a person of a certain ethnicity. Does that give me the right to say, "Oh, I would never date a black girl", or "Oh, I would never date an Asian girl"? Keep in mind that this is purely fictional, I have no problems with either race. I'll bet someone will call me a racist, based on saying that. Well, how is that any different than not dating someone who lives at home, is a virgin, doesn't have a shiny car, doesn't work, etc etc etc?

 

I fail to see how people can say one is worse than the other, or that they are not the same thing.

 

I have brought in George Sordini as an argument before. Yes, sure, he was a misogynist and a very sick and disturbed individual. But you know what people said, after he shot up that gym full of women?

 

"If the dude had gotten laid, none of this would have happened."

 

Do you fail to see the hypocrisy here? People treat virgins as inferior, or make fun of them, or won't date them. And then one gets mentally unbalanced and starts blaming it on everyone, and goes crazy, people emphasize? Where were the people who would have helped this dude out, before he went mental?

 

I am not excusing misogyny, by any means. But when women rule out men, for stupid things like prior relationship experience, not having a job, living at home, etc, all because they had bad experiences with men (who are not even that person!) who were in similar positions...

 

Do you fail to see why some men become bitter with women?

 

I am not going to start a gender war, but I definitely do feel that men are more accepting of women, than women are of men. I've never heard of a man mutilating a woman's private parts out of anger, yet you hear in the news all the time about women cutting, or biting, off a man's dick. And it's somehow funny?

 

Anyway, back to the point: I definitely do feel that relationship experience is irrevelant. People learn from relationship experience, and they DO change, so someone that cheated on someone before or wasn't a very good boyfriend before, is not necessarily going to be a bad boyfriend FOR YOU. Same with virgins, if he didn't sleep with another girl, that doesn't mean he won't sleep with YOU. Or that he hasn't studied the art of foreplay extensively. Same with jobs, he might just be having a string of bad luck, but he gets hired just after you dump him for not having a job (the next woman who DOES date him for having a job is the one who truly deserves him!) Or living at home, perhaps he had to move home because of a temporary situation, and can't wait to leave again? Shame on you for not dating him!

 

It's funny how biased some human beings are, isn't it?

[Els]

Eh, I agree completely with you about the virgins and relationship experience thing. It probably makes some difference, but really nowhere near as much as general attitude, diligence, personality and compatibility does. As for the guys telling you, 'Reading is for losers, you need to get some real experience', they probably fall under the category of men who don't even realize that the majority of women orgasm more easily from clitoral stimulation than vaginal intercourse.

 

People are judgmental. Not just towards men. You would be surprised what women get judged for. Don't sleep around before marriage, you're a frigid prude. Sleep around with multiple guys before marriage, you're a slut. Dress like a guy, you're a slob and unfeminine. Dress sexily, you're a slut. Dress elegantly, you're high maintenance. It goes on and on.

 

Society just stinks like that. And we all contribute to it. Don't act like you don't. You have. I have. We all have. And we all have to live with it, in the end.

[utterer of lies]

Anyway, back to the point: I definitely do feel that relationship experience is irrevelant. People learn from relationship experience, and they DO change

 

While this is true, it's quite rare. Most people do not change, and most people seem unable to learn from their experiences....and if they do, it's usually because of a very strong, singular experience.

 

 

 

Shame on you for not dating him!

 

It's funny how biased some human beings are, isn't it?

 

You should probably have a good look at yourself.

[utterer of lies]

Eh, I agree completely with you about the virgins and relationship experience thing. It probably makes some difference, but really nowhere near as much as general attitude, diligence, personality and compatibility does.

 

I don't agree. It takes time for girl to e.g. learn how to give a good blow job. 3 month of bad blowjobs until she learned it...yeah, great. Better a girl who already knows how to do it properly.

 

Being a virgin is a negative after a certain age...

 

Society just stinks like that. And we all contribute to it. Don't act like you don't. You have. I have. We all have. And we all have to live with it, in the end.

 

Human society is amazing. Isn't that great.

Edited May 15, 2011 by utterer of lies

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Oh yes, a 13 year old who has slept with another 13 year old is more mature than me, a 28 year old college student who has worked 6-7 jobs, lived on his own for 5-6 years (and just recently moved back home), and has mentored several other college students and helped one in particular go from getting F grades to getting A's and B's in math.

 

Oh yes, being a virgin is a negative.

 

Chris Martin was a virgin until he was 26. That was only 2 years ago from my age. Hmm, I wonder if people called him a loser, too, when he was making millions from Coldplay records?

[MissJoness]

Why do you tell them you're a virgin, though? Just don't say anything and she won't even know the diff

[Darren Taylor]

Why do you tell them you're a virgin, though? Just don't say anything and she won't even know the diff

 

 

Then she'll say "You never said you were a virgin. You lied!!" Seriously, virginity is almost always obvious. If you can't tell, that's pretty sad.

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Why do you tell them you're a virgin, though? Just don't say anything and she won't even know the diff

 

Because I fear showing rather than telling. It's not like she won't be able to tell I'm inexperienced, or nervous.

 

I've said before that I would prefer a girl who knew upfront about my virginity, and she was willing to 'teach me' the first few times. But, of course, that appears to be unreasonable for 99% of women.

[fortyninethousand322]

 

Same thing with virginity. What makes someone who's had lots of sex, better in the sack than someone who has no prior sexual experience? Some guys are like wham-bam-thank you ma'am. And then, some virgins (like me for instance) read up on the female anatomy, know lots of scientific data about orgasms and etc, and would try to PLEASE her, rather than just please myself. How does that make someone like me, or anyone who's a virgin, any different than someone who's had 30 or more sexual partners?

 

 

[/b]Do you fail to see the hypocrisy here? People treat virgins as inferior, or make fun of them, or won't date them. And then one gets mentally unbalanced and starts blaming it on everyone, and goes crazy, people emphasize? Where were the people who would have helped this dude out, before he went mental?

 

I am not excusing misogyny, by any means. But when women rule out men, for stupid things like prior relationship experience, not having a job, living at home, etc, all because they had bad experiences with men (who are not even that person!) who were in similar positions...

 

Do you fail to see why some men become bitter with women?

 

 

Anyway, back to the point: I definitely do feel that relationship experience is irrevelant. People learn from relationship experience, and they DO change, so someone that cheated on someone before or wasn't a very good boyfriend before, is not necessarily going to be a bad boyfriend FOR YOU. Same with virgins, if he didn't sleep with another girl, that doesn't mean he won't sleep with YOU. Or that he hasn't studied the art of foreplay extensively. Same with jobs, he might just be having a string of bad luck, but he gets hired just after you dump him for not having a job (the next woman who DOES date him for having a job is the one who truly deserves him!) Or living at home, perhaps he had to move home because of a temporary situation, and can't wait to leave again? Shame on you for not dating him!

 

It's funny how biased some human beings are, isn't it?

[/i]

 

Well, I disagree with the notion that relationship experience is completely irrelevant. It's relevant, but should not be the determining factor. A girl who dates an inexperienced guy might have to approach the relationship a bit differently than she would with an experienced guy. Doesn't mean she shouldn't date him, but it is kind of important to know something like that.

 

I think dating is just as hard for women as it is for men, just in different ways. I do think though that it's easier for guys to get lost in the shuffle of everyday life and get to be older and inexperienced. Doesn't mean there aren't older inexperienced women, but I think it's easier for guys to end up that way.

 

The only thing I've ever taken umbrage over in threads like these is when people sort of imply that inexperienced guys should give up any semblance of hope they have of ever getting into a relationship with someone they want a relationship with (aka they should "settle). I'm a reasonably good looking, in shape, college educated, smart, funny, well rounded guy with a good amount of friends and a healthy attitude towards life (most of the time). I should hope that my inexperience would not be a great handicap in trying to meet someone with many of the same qualities. I think most inexperienced guys feel the same way.

[MissJoness]

Then she'll say "You never said you were a virgin. You lied!!" Seriously, virginity is almost always obvious. If you can't tell, that's pretty sad.

I'm not a virgin but I am sexually inexperienced, and I would just lie and make it seem like I've had a lot of sex.

 

Because I fear showing rather than telling. It's not like she won't be able to tell I'm inexperienced, or nervous.

 

Well, I was with a guy who had experince and he was wham bam thank you mam. He didn't last very long yet he had been with his fair share of women. I don't think you'll do too bad your first time and she wont think you are inexperienced.

[utterer of lies]

Oh yes, a 13 year old who has slept with another 13 year old is more mature than me, a 28 year old college student who has worked 6-7 jobs, lived on his own for 5-6 years (and just recently moved back home), and has mentored several other college students and helped one in particular go from getting F grades to getting A's and B's in math.

 

No one said that. Anyway, a fair comparison would be:

 

- a 28 y.o. with lets say two long, multi-year relationships and some short ones

- a 28 y.o. without any relationship experience

 

 

Oh yes, being a virgin is a negative.

 

Yes, it is. Especially for a male. I'm sorry for you, but that's simply the truth.

 

Chris Martin was a virgin until he was 26. That was only 2 years ago from my age. Hmm, I wonder if people called him a loser, too, when he was making millions from Coldplay records?

 

Why do you compare yourself to a pop singer and a 13-year-old?

[utterer of lies]

I'm not a virgin but I am sexually inexperienced, and I would just lie and make it seem like I've had a lot of sex.

 

I think most people notice. I know I usually do...

[fortyninethousand322]

Yes, it is. Especially for a male. I'm sorry for you, but that's simply the truth.

 

And how do you suggest that a virgin man get rid of said negative trait? Given the logic displayed in threads like these to logical conclusion is that he doesn't. He just merely accepts his fate. But, maybe you have a different answer.

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Why do you compare yourself to a pop singer and a 13-year-old?

 

Well, a 13 year old who has sex is somehow more mature than the pop singer, who was a virgin until he was 26.

 

Oh, and my cousin didn't kiss a girl until his late 20's. He's now married, with two kids. I suppose he's also less mature than the 13 year old, even though he works in an office and is a computer programmer.

 

In fact, let's all compare the older virgins to 13 year olds. How about that athlete, who was 33 and got married and was a virgin. Or how about the 26 year old, who didn't kiss a girl until his wedding day (saw that on YouTube?) Are they less mature than the 13 year old, who has done all that?

 

Can you see how irrational your argument is? I'm trying to convince you of something. Everyone else has gotten it, but perhaps, since your username is "utterer of lies", you're so used to believing them that you can't see the truth, even when someone spells it out for you.

[Star Gazer]

Anyway, back to the point: ... People learn from relationship experience.

 

Thanks for proving my point, with just that one sentence!

 

That you don't get that, is almost scary.

[Els]

I don't agree. It takes time for girl to e.g. learn how to give a good blow job. 3 month of bad blowjobs until she learned it...yeah, great. Better a girl who already knows how to do it properly.

 

Being a virgin is a negative after a certain age...

 

Firstly, different men prefer different techniques.

 

Secondly, yeah, it makes a difference, but again, not as much as everything else does. I would rather spend 3 months working with a willing, eager, well-read partner with a compatible sex drive but no experience, rather than a person who has experience but is unwilling to learn, try new things, or get his partner off before himself. Oh, and who thinks vaginal intercourse is the end all be all of sex. I'm still amazed how many 'experienced' men believe that.

 

Anyhow, it seems OP is, again, only listening to those who prove his point and fan his flames, rather than those who agree with him. I recall virginity being a very sore point for him, in that he made several threads about it and seemed to completely disbelieve or ignore posts which told him, "It's fine, really", choosing only to believe those that crucified virgins and thus making himself disillusioned. So, meh, no point in me posting further.

[fortyninethousand322]

Thanks for proving my point, with just that one sentence!

 

That you don't get that, is almost scary.

 

Well what's he supposed to do? Sulk that most (probably a majority) won't date an older inexperienced guy simply because he's inexperienced?

[Cracker Jack]

Um, is it actually possible (Not stranger to the deed, but very inexperienced sexually)to even hide this lack of a feat? Or are we just SOL here?

 

But yeah, I know a few women who gradually became turned off when they learned that my relationship experience was sorta limited. I didn't want to lie to them, and I honestly thought they wouldn't mind--but I could see it in their eyes that their entire perception of me changed completely. Thought it wouldn't matter, but at least I know better now.

[denise_xo]

[quote=LeaningIntoTheMuse;3400841I definitely do feel that relationship experience is irrevelant. People learn from relationship experience, and they DO change...

[/i]

 

As SG pointed out, this is a huge contradiction in your argument

[MissJoness]

I think most people notice. I know I usually do...

 

I don't think you can always tell. If you put in effort so that person won't know they wont be able to tell the diff

 

But I lie because I don't want anybody thinking they are better than me or looking down on me because I don't have as much experience as they do. I am just as good if not better than they are and have just as much to offer

[Star Gazer]

But I lie because I don't want anybody thinking they are better than me or looking down on me because I don't have as much experience as they do. I am just as good if not better than they are and have just as much to offer

 

The hypocrisy and contradiction in this thread amongst the inexperienced is astounding but not surprising.

[fortyninethousand322]

The hypocrisy and contradiction in this thread amongst the inexperienced is astounding but not surprising.

 

And why is that?

[welikeincrowds]

People are constantly changing and evolving. If someone was a complete ass 2 years ago, and then turned over a new leaf, he's not going to treat you the same way that he treated his prior girlfriend.

 

Do you really think it would be prudent to keep dating someone who has a demonstrated history of being an ******* to former lovers?

 

Regardless, that's not, strictly speaking, the sort of information one would expect from that question. (This is aside from the reasoning that a real ******* wouldn't admit to being one.) One asks about relationship history to learn about what someone has experienced.

Same thing with virginity. What makes someone who's had lots of sex, better in the sack than someone who has no prior sexual experience? Some guys are like wham-bam-thank you ma'am. And then, some virgins (like me for instance) read up on the female anatomy, know lots of scientific data about orgasms and etc, and would try to PLEASE her, rather than just please myself. How does that make someone like me, or anyone who's a virgin, any different than someone who's had 30 or more sexual partners?

 

The difference is that you haven't had sex.

 

Let's bring an example in here, shall we? Let's say I have a bad experience with a person of a certain ethnicity. Does that give me the right to say, "Oh, I would never date a black girl", or "Oh, I would never date an Asian girl"? Keep in mind that this is purely fictional, I have no problems with either race. I'll bet someone will call me a racist, based on saying that. Well, how is that any different than not dating someone who lives at home, is a virgin, doesn't have a shiny car, doesn't work, etc etc etc?

 

I fail to see how people can say one is worse than the other, or that they are not the same thing.

 

They are not even close to the same thing. One is an assessment of who you are based on your history of actions and past experiences, your decisions and way of life as a human being. The other is an assessment of who you are based on your skin color.

Do you fail to see the hypocrisy here? People treat virgins as inferior, or make fun of them, or won't date them. And then one gets mentally unbalanced and starts blaming it on everyone, and goes crazy, people emphasize? Where were the people who would have helped this dude out, before he went mental?

 

And how would you propose doing that? By getting him laid?

 

I am surprised that you would allow jerk-off humor to become affirmative evidence for your argument. Someone who is willing to commit a mass-murder is severely unbalanced and would require real treatment from real doctors. Unless you are insinuating that you feel your frustration growing to the point where you might shoot up a gym, I fail to see what this example does for you.

 

Do you fail to see why some men become bitter with women?

 

No, I don't fail to see why.

 

It's because they won't take responsibility for their decisions. They shift the blame on others even though there were never any tricks, secrets, surprises about how this works. They turn it into a pathology and allow it as an excuse to keep themselves from having to work and take risks and achieve the things they want.

OP, the fact that you are a virgin is a situation you have gotten yourself into, and have thus far kept that way. It's probably due to a lot of factors but there is no one to blame; and if there is someone to blame, it's yourself.

 

It's a problem for you, so plan a solution and enact it. That doesn't just mean "go get laid man." I would rather you do the harder task and simply get over it -- genuinely accept that it's okay that you're virgin. It's only because you are insecure about this that comments from a random stranger on an internet message board would affect you.

 

Think about how many different people are on this board, dude. All walks of life on here; so many people I would never meet in the context of my daily life, that I get along with and highly enjoy speaking to on LS. But there are also a lot of different opinions from faceless people that are much harder to filter. That girl who PM'd you is probably a girl you wouldn't be interested in if met saw her in person. Clearly you have different value systems -- so how was a simple difference in perspective translated into something that deeply hurt your feelings? You should unpack that, because the issue here is not what other people have to say, it's you -- or, probably more accurately, what you have to say about yourself.

[MissJoness]

The hypocrisy and contradiction in this thread amongst the inexperienced is astounding but not surprising.

That's only because people who are sexually experienced think they are better than those who are not as experienced/virgins so it makes sense for us to try to make ourselves out to be better than you all are. Its just a defense mechanism.

[Els]

As SG pointed out, this is a huge contradiction in your argument

 

I think the OP meant that he could gain experience and learn within the relationship itself, and that he didn't like how people judged him as not worthy of a R just because he hasn't had one.

 

I think people nowadays are too caught up in the dream of instant perfection - nay, not just the dream, but the expectation and the feeling that the world owes it to them. They refuse to 'waste 3 months teaching someone how to make love to them', believing that they are entitled to instant good sex, amongst everything else they require of a partner. They refuse to date the person who's still 20 lbs heavier than she should be but has already lost 50 lbs and will in all likelihood lose the 20lbs in the future. They refuse to date the med school student struggling with student loan debt even though they themselves put accomplished doctors on a pedestal.

 

They want everything, perfectly, now, instead of needing to work with a partner and learn and improve themselves together. And then they wonder why they can never find it.