BiscuitXOXO Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Another girl and I were talking to these two guys I recently met. The subject of qualities we look for in a SO came up. The girl said, "I don't want a man who thinks he's better than me." I disagreed. I said, "I don't mind a man who thinks he's better than me. Actually, I prefer it, as long as he doesn't think I'm stupid and still takes my opinions into consideration." One of the guys said, "What about equality?" I said, "BS, there's never true equality. And I'd prefer some1 who thinks he's better than me than someone who thinks I'm better and who I can step all over." The two guys like looked at each other and kinda grinned and laughed. What do you think went through their minds?
Rinnix Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Id rather be seen as equals. I'm not a pushover, and I don't want to use someone like a doormat either. Relationships with power highs are unhealthy.
Woggle Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 A healthy relationship should not be a power struggle in the first place.
Nexus One Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Another girl and I were talking to these two guys I recently met. The subject of qualities we look for in a SO came up. The girl said, "I don't want a man who thinks he's better than me." I disagreed. I said, "I don't mind a man who thinks he's better than me. Actually, I prefer it, as long as he doesn't think I'm stupid and still takes my opinions into consideration." One of the guys said, "What about equality?" I said, "BS, there's never true equality. And I'd prefer some1 who thinks he's better than me than someone who thinks I'm better and who I can step all over." The two guys like looked at each other and kinda grinned and laughed. What do you think went through their minds? I think they didn't know how to respond to you, because you expressed an unconventional opinion. Hence they looked at each other and laughed, as they didn't know what else to do. Either that or they thought you weren't entirely right in the head.
Woggle Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 But without power struggles how are we to measure equality? It's quite easy. My wife and I managed to do it. It is just assumed that we are equals.
Stung Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 They heard you affirming that all girls like alpha *******s, and they probably came back here and started a thread about it, completely disregarding what your other friend said. My personal thoughts align more here: Id rather be seen as equals. I'm not a pushover, and I don't want to use someone like a doormat either. Relationships with power highs are unhealthy. and here: A healthy relationship should not be a power struggle in the first place. I don't want a doormat, but I certainly don't want someone who thinks he's my inherent superior, either. Those are not the only choices, btw. And I'm not sure what you mean when you say there's never true equality. I have noticed that a lot of people seem to confuse 'equal' with 'same'. There will always be differences between the sexes and between the strengths and weaknesses of any two people, that doesn't mean they can't have equal partnerships.
Author BiscuitXOXO Posted May 14, 2011 Author Posted May 14, 2011 That's interesting, I didn't think of this in the context of a power struggle. I viewed it as more of a personal value and confidence issue. Would you sacrifice for me, or preserve your self-interest? But I guess no one can go too extremely self-interested, because then they just become selfish jerks. So there's a happy medium? However, I don't think there is true equality because in a relationship of two people, there is never a majority vote. I mean, I guess you could both sit down and talk reasonably about pro and cons, but in the end, what if you both were very adamant about your positions? On issues such as...child discipline or...car puchases. Someone has to give. And for some reason, after a heated argument, I would prefer to say, "I have had my say, now you make the decision you think best." And whatever he decides, I'll accept. Is this thinking really unconventional?
eerie_reverie Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) I think your wording is confusing. First, you talk about "equality", which I don't really understand in the context of a relationship. I think of "equal" as equal rights and fair opportunity... in a relationship, does this mean someone being with someone who believes in equality? Splitting everything down the middle (payments, decisions) so that all things are equal? A relationship is more than the sum of its parts, it is becoming one unit, so I don't think that should ever be the goal... In terms of wanting someone "better" than you (or who thinks he is "better" than you), what does this even mean? I think what you are getting at is wanting the guy to wear the pants. And I am with you on that one! I would go further to say most women are; it turns us on. But guys must not want to wear the pants either, because alpha males are hard to come by! I think most people would prefer to have their decisions made for them by someone they trust to have their bst interests at heart; it's easier that way. Edited May 14, 2011 by eerie_reverie
Woggle Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I think that people who want their partner to wear pants just feel it is easier to let somebody else make the decisions. That is what it seems like to me.
Author BiscuitXOXO Posted May 14, 2011 Author Posted May 14, 2011 In terms of wanting someone "better" than you (or who thinks he is "better" than you), what does this even mean? I think what you are getting at is wanting the guy to wear the pants. And I am with you on that one! Wearing the pants! Yes! I'll try to clarify; looking at it, yes my wording is confusing. Not better as in socially better, but thinking he's better as in, he would trust his own opinions instead of mine, or be willing to choose what he thinks is right, regardless to what I think. And right as in ethically right, not...feels-good right haha.
Author BiscuitXOXO Posted May 14, 2011 Author Posted May 14, 2011 I think that people who want their partner to wear pants just feel it is easier to let somebody else make the decisions. That is what it seems like to me. It's not necessarily easier to let somebody else make decisions. I just feel that it is more right for me, as a woman, to accept a decision, than it is for a man to accept a decision made by a woman. Ego and all that. And one of the few things that irritate me is when I ask someone, "What do you think of this (insert project/idea)." And they say, "Whatever you think." I'm like wtf?? I asked for your opinion not my own...??
Mrlonelyone Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Biscuit: What you said was being honest about what most women your age want. Older women realize that men need a woman who can advise them and make decisions sometimes. Especially men who take charge in all the rest of their lives. It's the reason that dominant/submissive sexual fetish'es exist. The more alpha the male outside the bedroom the more submissive inside. I think that people who want their partner to wear pants just feel it is easier to let somebody else make the decisions. That is what it seems like to me. Agreed. However you and biscuit are at different levels of development. You are older wiser and married. She is younger less wise and still in a mode common to younger men and women. (I am somewhere in the middle of those poles.) You are thinking of you need for you wife to be able to make choices and decisions like a true partner. i.e. If you were incapacitated and could not make your own medical decisions you have someone who you trust can do that for you. Etc. No man wants a wife who will defer to him in all matters.
Author BiscuitXOXO Posted May 14, 2011 Author Posted May 14, 2011 ^^^ that is a real eye-opener. *ponders* Well of course no man wants a submissive woman who can't make decisions on their own and goes running to him for every little detail. But what about the bigger decisions that should and could be made with both partners present? Your incapacitated example is a bit extreme, because the man can't do anything. In that case, initial grief can be forgiven, but I'd hope that later on she'd take responsibility. I would fight for and happily dive into heated arguments to support my point of view. But the ultimate decision, I think, lies with the man, and overall it would be easier for that decision to be accepted by the entire family/society. Please pick apart my case, I realize that I'm young, thus I come here for more mature points of view
Mrlonelyone Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 ^^^ that is a real eye-opener. *ponders* Well of course no man wants a submissive woman who can't make decisions on their own and goes running to him for every little detail. But what about the bigger decisions that should and could be made with both partners present? Your incapacitated example is a bit extreme, because the man can't do anything. In that case, initial grief can be forgiven, but I'd hope that later on she'd take responsibility. Think about this if both partners need to be present then do you really think the man should have the final say? I would fight for and happily dive into heated arguments to support my point of view. But the ultimate decision, I think, lies with the man, and overall it would be easier for that decision to be accepted by the entire family/society. Please pick apart my case, I realize that I'm young, thus I come here for more mature points of view Let me put it to you this way. A question to consider. Should women have the right to vote or hold public office IF what you just said is true? What you said implies that if a womans word is worth less than a mans on matters like say...buying a car... what is their word worth in matters of politics and war?
eerie_reverie Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 It's not necessarily easier to let somebody else make decisions. I just feel that it is more right for me, as a woman, to accept a decision, than it is for a man to accept a decision made by a woman. Ego and all that. And one of the few things that irritate me is when I ask someone, "What do you think of this (insert project/idea)." And they say, "Whatever you think." I'm like wtf?? I asked for your opinion not my own...?? Biscuit, I don't think it's a gender thing. Women can be natually dominant, and tons of men (I would say the majority) are naturally submissive. Also, dominance is something that can be develped (imo) intentionally or unintentionally, based on life circumstances and confidence. Not to mention that one man's top is another man's bottom. To say it is more "right" for a man to be dominant kind of implies there is something wrong with most men and many relationships, which isn't fair, IMO. Not to mention, as Lonely points out, this point of view is sexist. Why not just say you have a personal preference for that kind of relationship?
ladyinlimbo Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 And one of the few things that irritate me is when I ask someone, "What do you think of this (insert project/idea)." And they say, "Whatever you think." I'm like wtf?? I asked for your opinion not my own...?? Don't you think it's kind of ironic and contradictory that you are admittedly frustrated by people who don't have an opinion of their own and in turn just weakly defer to YOURS.....yet you want a relationship in which, despite what your opinion is, your guy will have the final say? A lot of men don't want a spineless woman who constantly defers to them to make the final decision.....it can become a turn-off and a surefire way for him to lose respect for the woman, think she's weak and spineless and doesn't have enough confidence in her beliefs or decisions or opinions -- much the same what you think "WTF" when a friend leaves it to you to make the decision. See what I mean?
Cee Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Biscuit, you brought up an interesting subject. As an adult, you need to be capable and willing to make decisions on every aspect of your life. You need to decide what you will eat for breakfast, how you will make/spend your money, and how you will protect your health and emotional well-being. As an adult, you are completely responsible for everything in your life. An adult is capable of surviving and thriving without someone making decisions for them. I would argue that it is impossible to have a good life without you being your own decisionmaker. When I was a young woman, I was babied by my parents and was too immature to make healthy choices. I knew I had weaknesses and I wanted to skip doing the work of growing up and have a man tell me what to do. That strategy failed because without a sense of self, life has no purpose or joy. I am now a fully realized adult and in an adult relationship. I don't care if I'm "equal" to my partner in the sum of our talents, but we contribute to the life of the relationship equally. And we also have our senses of self, which means that when we make big decisions, we both contribute. I don't know if this made any sense. But thanks for bringing up the subject.
Stung Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 However, I don't think there is true equality because in a relationship of two people, there is never a majority vote. I mean, I guess you could both sit down and talk reasonably about pro and cons, but in the end, what if you both were very adamant about your positions? On issues such as...child discipline or...car puchases. Someone has to give. And for some reason, after a heated argument, I would prefer to say, "I have had my say, now you make the decision you think best." And whatever he decides, I'll accept. There is give and take, and compromise, and through it all runs a tacit acknowledgment of each other's strengths and weaknesses, and respect for each other's emotional investment. In my own marriage, we understand that some of the things I am good at, he is not, and vice versa. To use your two examples: I make most of the decisions re: child discipline, because A) I am home more often with the children, make most of the day-to-day decisions about the children and am their primary caretaker, and B) I also happen to have some academic and professional background in the psychology of child development. As for cars, well, he has an engineering background and both knows and cares more about cars than I do. I would tend to defer to his judgment in the car purchasing arena, as long as he was accepting my input (all I really care about is that it not be too expensive and that it be safe for driving young children in), because I trust him in the areas he is strong in, just as he trusts me in the areas I am strong in. If we are making decisions in an area neither of us is strong in, we will both sit down and do research together, as well as consult others whose judgment we trust, and then we talk it out. In the end, if there's something we're both adamant about and we are having trouble finding a compromise, usually one or the other of us will end up deferring to whoever cares the most and is the most emotionally invested in the outcome. Sometimes it's him, and sometimes it's me. I think what you are getting at is wanting the guy to wear the pants. And I am with you on that one! I would go further to say most women are; it turns us on. I guess for myself, I want a guy who is comfortable wearing the pants, and is ALSO comfortable with me wearing the other pair of pants. Wearing the pants! Yes! I'll try to clarify; looking at it, yes my wording is confusing. Not better as in socially better, but thinking he's better as in, he would trust his own opinions instead of mine, or be willing to choose what he thinks is right, regardless to what I think. And right as in ethically right, not...feels-good right haha. That just would not sit well with me at all. I would never be with someone who didn't think my opinions were as valuable as his, or think that I had just as good a handle on what's ethically right as he did. I am not intellectually inferior, and wouldn't appreciate being valued as such. There are certain fields in which my partner is stronger than I am, but there are other fields in which I am stronger than he is, and we shore up each other's weaknesses, which makes us an excellent team. In my case, at least, it's nothing to do with age or maturation. I have never wanted to be with someone who didn't respect me as an equal.
Kaplan Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 What do you think of this (insert project/idea). Whatever you want . . . I'm not "submissive" or anything, I just don't give a crap about the project/idea. Honestly, we could go in almost any direction with regards to the project/idea and it would make no difference to me. You're the one who wanted to do this stupid project/idea anyway. Sheesh. Seriously though, I think a lot of the time when a woman says something like, "My husband doesn't assert his opinion about what color the drapes should be," what's really going on is the husband doesn't have an opinion on what color the drapes should be. The only way you can claim that he's a push-over or something is if your suggestion was so incredibly bad that it was obvious that he didn't agree: "so I'm thinking pink polka dots for the drapes; what do you think?" As Stung was saying, defer to the person who gives a crap. As for the project/idea, I think you might have low self-esteem. For me, when I suggest a project/idea and everybody goes along with it, I assume that my project/idea was just a really awesome project/idea and nobody else has any better projects/ideas.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Whatever you want . . . I'm not "submissive" or anything, I just don't give a crap about the project/idea. Honestly, we could go in almost any direction with regards to the project/idea and it would make no difference to me. You're the one who wanted to do this stupid project/idea anyway. Sheesh. Seriously though, I think a lot of the time when a woman says something like, "My husband doesn't assert his opinion about what color the drapes should be," what's really going on is the husband doesn't have an opinion on what color the drapes should be. The only way you can claim that he's a push-over or something is if your suggestion was so incredibly bad that it was obvious that he didn't agree: "so I'm thinking pink polka dots for the drapes; what do you think?" As Stung was saying, defer to the person who gives a crap. Same goes for questions like "what should we have for dinner"? I'm not picky about food (unless we're literally eating dog excrement, and even then it depends) so honestly, when I say I don't care, I really don't care. I think passivity and submissiveness too often get confused with apathy.
sanskrit Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 What do you think went through their minds? You walking on their back in lingerie and high heels with a riding crop.
Woggle Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 I really think things like this are the reason why some men have become attracted to older women. They want a partner rather than a daddy and that is very attractive. Just like most women don't want to be a man's mother most men don't want to be a woman's father because when things go wrong guess who gets all the blame.
Stung Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 Seriously though, I think a lot of the time when a woman says something like, "My husband doesn't assert his opinion about what color the drapes should be," what's really going on is the husband doesn't have an opinion on what color the drapes should be. The only way you can claim that he's a push-over or something is if your suggestion was so incredibly bad that it was obvious that he didn't agree: "so I'm thinking pink polka dots for the drapes; what do you think?" As Stung was saying, defer to the person who gives a crap. I'm not necessarily ready to start dissecting the OP's self-esteem yet. It's very common for young women to see the dynamic the OP is talking about modeled for them in their home life, and so it seems like the most natural thing in the world, subconsciously. Or maybe she just has a naturally deferential temperament, nothing wrong with that in and of itself. Totally agree with the above, though. We've just made an offer on a new house, and are already talking about the renovations we'll want to make if we get it. My husband has all kinds of highly opinionated enthusiasm about the projects that involve carpentry, and very, very little opinion at all about decorating, so decorating is pretty much all me because he just doesn't give a crap, although I will confer with him on the budget for it just as he will check with me on the budget for the building projects. Landscaping the yard and gardens is something we both care about but I'll be physically doing most of it so I'll probably be the main authority on that, which doesn't mean that he's submissive at all, it's just practical.
SteveC80 Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) Most women like to be dominated and feel like their Man is the superior. I learned early on women want to be lead ,when i was much younger i had women tell me they lost attraction for me because i didnt make most of the decisions and something as smiple as leaving it up to them where to eat turned thme off Some of it is that allot of women are lazy and want all decisons to be made for thme so they face no cosnequences,some women think Men are smarter and better decision makers some of it is sexual,women judge mens personalities and correlate it to how hed act in the bedroom Who knows, some women are just goofy Edited May 15, 2011 by SteveC80
Titania22 Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 I really think things like this are the reason why some men have become attracted to older women. They want a partner rather than a daddy and that is very attractive. Just like most women don't want to be a man's mother most men don't want to be a woman's father because when things go wrong guess who gets all the blame. This is the truth. The one who makes the final decision is always the one that gets the blame if things don't go to plan. The bigger the decision, the bigger the blame. Which is also why many people would rather someone else make the decisions. It is much more comforting to deal out the blame then it is to receive it. And on top of that making decisions is tiring, and the more you get crap for your choices the more tiring it is. For a really small, inconsequential example, i would sight my kids and I. My daughter wishes i would decide and cook the dinner every night, but when i do make decisions about dinner, i have tended to get criticised, because it isn't what they feel like eating, or has things they don't like, isn't nutricious enough, is too nutricious, not enough variety, etc etc. Which means, i mostly don't decide what's for dinner, i ask them what they want, meaning they have to make the decision. I still have to buy and cook whatever they want, but at least i know i am not wasting my effort. Making her own decision about what to eat, has made her frustrated sometimes that i don't go ahead and just decide, but she can't have it both ways. If she wants me to decide, she better have a smile on her face and be thankful for whats she gets (even if my attempt backfires), or else she has to be happy I am willing to give her the choice. Every single person makes a hundred little decisions like this everyday, it is understandable, yet unfair, to throw more decision making onto someone else, just so you can take it easy. I think both people in a relationship should have a go with making some of the decision, so each of you also gets a break from the responsibility occasionally.
Recommended Posts