thatone Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 I'm 23, so I guess I'm in the range that it's not too bad to be inexperienced. Hopefully most girls my age share your view. I honestly don't think it's my inexperience that's holding me back, it's more that I hate cold approaching but I also have no idea where to meet women. Most of the things I do with my spare time are male-dominated, and most of the cool things to do that might involve women take place 45+ minutes away from where I currently live. I've tried online dating but that's a crap shoot that I keep losing at. I hope your brother finds someone too. yeah well, the object of this whole song and dance is to lose all but one at any given point in time. it's always a crap shoot. learn to accept that and you'll find yourself doing a lot better.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 yeah well, the object of this whole song and dance is to lose all but one at any given point in time. it's always a crap shoot. learn to accept that and you'll find yourself doing a lot better. Granted. But being 0/5 is a lot better when those five come in rapid succession (a few days/weeks) rather than over the course of 5+ years.
NoMagicBullet Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 Is it a good idea to ask my guy about his ex gf's and if he has ever regretted some things, if he was ever thinking about marrying one of them, etc...? I've told him about my ex husband 'cause he asked me what happened. He was never married and in the beginning of our relationship he asked me if i wanna know anything about his past and back then i said no. We've been together for over 6 months now and after a conversation that we had some time ago i realized that his last relationship ended just about 3 months before we met and then the one before that ended 8 months before we met. When he said the reason that she left him he didn't seem happy about it. I am not sure if he got over that 100%. I don't know if i should give any weight on the fact that he may still be hurt from what happened in the recent past or not. I understand if he's got some scars from past relationships, i think we all do to some extent, but i don't know if i should care about it or not. I need some feedback from men and women who have been in the same situation. I was thinking maybe to open up a conversation and ask him if he has any regrets about the past and if he's happy how things turned out in his life, etc... Is this a good idea? I don't know if my way of thinking is faulty but the way i see it, if he's talking about marrying me, i'd like to know that his mind and heart are 100% with me and our relationship and nowhere else. What I get from your post is that he hasn't talked much, if at all, about his past relationships, and with your new realization about the timing of breakups and your relationship, along with the talk of marriage, you are wondering if you might be a rebound? Just because he doesn't talk about it and doesn't seem happy to talk about it, doesn't mean that he's not over it. That is, he could be quite over it; I think him not talking about it is a good sign that past relationships are not on his mind. After not taking him up on his original offer to discuss his past, it would seem suspect to bring it up now. I also think you are hoping for answers that will make you feel more secure in this relationship -- because I think your motivation for asking is that you are feeling insecure. There's no good way to ask someone "Are you really committed to me, 100%?" either directly, or in an indirect way like asking about past relationships. It's like asking "Do I look fat in these jeans?" There's a specific answer that's desired, and even if you get the answer you want, it will likely not calm your anxiety. I suggest holding off on asking about his past. Actions speak louder than words, so how is he acting? Do you have a good relationship? I don't believe past relationships, which are usually failed relationships, are proof of having adequate skills to make a current relationship work. However, I do believe you can learn if you and your partner both have those skills by doing some structured premarital work. So if you two get serious about marriage (you didn't say he proposed or that you were engaged, so I assume you aren't), then I recommend premarital counseling, workshops or seminars together and addressing past issues then. That includes finances, family, living habits, and lots of other things beyond past relationships and exes. Also, you both have the right to know if there's something big in a partner's past that could come back to haunt them and affect you and the marriage. But until you get engaged, try not to worry about it. Judge your relationship and it's potential future on it's own merits, not on your past or his.
Flgirl44 Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 look at what you just said. yes you did know. you said yourself that you knew. you convinced yourself otherwise. that's why your ex was probably a relationship of months/years, and my last one was weeks. she lied, i caught it. i asked her about it, she got defensive and confrontational, the end. you can't change people by imagining them in a different light, you can just play the cards you're dealt. What I said is that he had character flaws, just like everyone else, and there was no way for me to gauge how far he would go when acting on those tendencies. You see, nobody is perfect, and if I were to go assuming people were going to cheat on me every time they showed a weakness in character I would lead a very lonely existence. I try to keep my faith in people as a whole. I do see some of your points and agree. It's hard to see people for what they really are sometimes.
Flgirl44 Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 look at what you just said. yes you did know. you said yourself that you knew. you convinced yourself otherwise. that's why your ex was probably a relationship of months/years, and my last one was weeks. she lied, i caught it. i asked her about it, she got defensive and confrontational, the end. you can't change people by imagining them in a different light, you can just play the cards you're dealt. Also, be more sensitive to the fact that not everyone has the ability to cut and run like you. People deal with things differently. And it was only after the dust had settled and the manipulation was over that I was able to piece his issues together vs. putting the blinders on. My relationship was longer than weeks because of the paragraph above, and because we had a love for each other that lit up the room, not due to me being willfully ignorant. I resent that you would imply/state that.
thatone Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 you're right, it sounds so much better to call it "accountability issues". you're so much better than the rest of us for accepting dishonest people for who they are. i'm sure you'll find another one just like him soon enough.
sanskrit Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Of course he could always lie Ya reckon? but its hard to be convincing when it was every single one of his past relationships. No, it makes it easier because he is a practiced cheater and liar. Words are hollow, actions are all. If you are getting in too deep before you have enough data points collected from someone's behavior and treatment of you, such that you sit around and conjecture about externals such as "how many relationships has he had? what duration? is that enough experience?" that's a personal character flaw you have to deal with yourself. Don't get in so deep so fast. All the conjecture in the world isn't worth a hill of beans, and too often, we use conjecture and "what we want to hear" to put new SOs on a pedestal unduly. Delving into the past unless there's some criminal history or multiple divorces is almost never useful and productive. Ironically, the best liars and cheaters will use such questions to gain your sympathy and manipulate you further, it's... what... they... do. And on a side note, guys, tell them nothing of consequence about your past, your feelings, your moods, etc., nothing until you have been dating MANY months. You have no control over how they will spin the simplest things you tell them about yourself in logically contorted and rationalizing ways. They will have you pegged for god knows what unfairly. Be like Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes (yeah I'm old) "I know nothing... nothing!" Edited May 16, 2011 by sanskrit
thatone Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 And on a side note, guys, tell them nothing of consequence about your past, your feelings, your moods, etc., nothing until you have been dating MANY months. You have no control over how they will spin the simplest things you tell them about yourself in logically contorted and rationalizing ways. They will have you pegged for god knows what unfairly. Be like Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes (yeah I'm old) "I know nothing... nothing!" exactly. the optimal response is not to respond, or at worst not to respond honestly! why women fail to grasp this simple concept is beyond me. a wise man's definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different response now those of you who do this know why men call you crazy.
Flgirl44 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 you're right, it sounds so much better to call it "accountability issues". you're so much better than the rest of us for accepting dishonest people for who they are. i'm sure you'll find another one just like him soon enough. I don't care about being better than other people. I do accept that people are dishonest. I've found that accepting that some people are dishonest is a lot easier than focusing on what 'should be' and getting overly upset at the discrepancies like I have. @sanskrit -- While I realize words are hollow, sometimes for serial monogamists they get into a relationship with someone knowing full well they have no intention of being with the person in the end. So their actions are correct but not reliable as a predictor of future behavior. So they date for comfort pretty much. They might have a loop they do every 4 years to different people. How would you ever get an idea about that without asking? It's kind of hard to hide your history if it becomes too convoluted. I'm not saying lie detector the person but I think asking questions like how long were your longest relationships? Are you still friends with your exes? are fine to ask after a certain point. I feel like it's part seeing if the person is along your same vein of morals and values and worth investing further effort into.
sanskrit Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 They might have a loop they do every 4 years to different people. They might change their ways and never cheat again, or the man who professes never to have cheated may start up on your watch. They might turn gay, go through a midlife crisis, run off with their boss, run off with your boss, have an ex come back into the picture unexpectedly, have health problems... could go on and on, is any of this sinking in? Go slow enough such that your primary knowledge of someone consists of internal factors in the relationship NOW in the present, as opposed to trying to piece together a picture of a past which may or may not lead to a particular future. The more I think about this issue, the more it seems to revolve around the fact that there are so many women out there who can't stand to be single and have never become comfortable being alone with themselves for a period in life. Those types have to play "hurry-up" guessing and grilling games because remaining single while they weigh options slowly on more reliable first hand information over significant time is an unthinkable option.
Flgirl44 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 I definitely see where you are coming from. I understand that people can change, and there are things that are not predictable no matter how much of the past you know. It is not good to take too much stock in past relationships as a measure of a good person, you should rely more heavily on actions. That I agree with. I would like you to see that I also have a point, and that there is useful info to be gleaned from these conversations. That info about the past coupled with their actions as you say can paint a pretty accurate picture.
sanskrit Posted May 17, 2011 Posted May 17, 2011 I would like you to see that I also have a point, and that there is useful info to be gleaned from these conversations. That info about the past coupled with their actions as you say can paint a pretty accurate picture. If you can glean useful information from those questions, by watching reactions, body language, etc., you can gain the exact same information more reliably in day to day experience of someone. Will make a confession to illustrate. I neither cheat nor lie in relationships, however, I have on occasion used the types of questions this thread is concerned with as opportunities to emotionally manipulate women who ask them of me. I consider it a fair trade, her bad manners in prying and grilling me, perhaps leading to BS assumptions and judgments, versus my bad manners in using the opportunity to press her emotional buttons manipulatively in my favor. If they don't ever go there, then I don't manipulate. Caveat emptor when grilling cagey men. There is always more than one version of the truth and infinite ways to tell it with 100% sincerity and without rationalizing one iota.
thatone Posted May 17, 2011 Posted May 17, 2011 Will make a confession to illustrate. I neither cheat nor lie in relationships, however, I have on occasion used the types of questions this thread is concerned with as opportunities to emotionally manipulate women who ask them of me. I consider it a fair trade, her bad manners in prying and grilling me, perhaps leading to BS assumptions and judgments, versus my bad manners in using the opportunity to press her emotional buttons manipulatively in my favor. If they don't ever go there, then I don't manipulate. Caveat emptor when grilling cagey men. There is always more than one version of the truth and infinite ways to tell it with 100% sincerity and without rationalizing one iota. when men get even a hint that the little bit of trust we gave was not deserved, we're gone. even if it's not walking away from the table and leaving you in a restaurant by yourself, when the observation is made that "i trusted her and she is plotting against me", she's history, the decision is made in an instant and it's just a matter of time. the only question at that point is whether or not to continue on with a well prepared set of lies to try to get laid, or just wash your hands of her after the waiter brings the check. just as women can justify pre-judging a man based on all of their 'preparations', men can justify lying to those same women just to get laid. that's how our brains work. again, at that point it's just a game, and all's fair. stay thirsty my friend.
Flgirl44 Posted May 17, 2011 Posted May 17, 2011 If you can glean useful information from those questions, by watching reactions, body language, etc., you can gain the exact same information more reliably in day to day experience of someone. Will make a confession to illustrate. I neither cheat nor lie in relationships, however, I have on occasion used the types of questions this thread is concerned with as opportunities to emotionally manipulate women who ask them of me. I consider it a fair trade, her bad manners in prying and grilling me, perhaps leading to BS assumptions and judgments, versus my bad manners in using the opportunity to press her emotional buttons manipulatively in my favor. If they don't ever go there, then I don't manipulate. Caveat emptor when grilling cagey men. There is always more than one version of the truth and infinite ways to tell it with 100% sincerity and without rationalizing one iota. See what you aren't getting is that, we are both right and it doesn't have to be either/or. You can watch someone day to day and also ask about the past. It's like going to class and doing the supplemental study guide as well, you get a way better idea of what it is you are studying. As for the second paragraph, Yeah, and im sure women aren't picking up on that at all.... you're so smooth. haha I've been able to come to the conclusion through your writings that you don't think very highly of women.
thatone Posted May 17, 2011 Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) See what you aren't getting is that, we are both right and it doesn't have to be either/or. You can watch someone day to day and also ask about the past. It's like going to class and doing the supplemental study guide as well, you get a way better idea of what it is you are studying. we don't think very highly of women who put themselves on a pedestal and think that they're always right. and that pedestal can be positive or negative. the positive pedestal being they think they're worthy of being endlessly chased by every man they ever met, and the negative being they equate prejudice and delusion with wisdom and when their prejudice and delusion fails them they convince themselves that they are somehow noble by staying with the abusive/manipulative/dishonest man they've caught to avoid having to deal with their own issues. you can't deal with someone who spends most of their brain activity trying to maintain a fantasy. it does have to be either/or. you don't ALWAYS get your way. men have to deal with this all of the time, when women react poorly to something we say or do, we have to let the woman go or avoid doing that thing, we don't have the luxury of sitting there and pretending "we're both right". As for the second paragraph, Yeah, and im sure women aren't picking up on that at all.... you're so smooth. haha I've been able to come to the conclusion through your writings that you don't think very highly of women. you told us that you 'accept' your dishonest partners. we didn't put those words in your mouth. Edited May 17, 2011 by thatone
Flgirl44 Posted May 17, 2011 Posted May 17, 2011 I don't try to maintain a fantasy . If you took my comment about accepting that some people are dishonest in the correct context you would see that the statement is reinforcing the fact that I choose not to deny the real world. I think you are hung up on the different definitions of accept. I am using it in the sense of "considered as truth" you are thinking I am using it in the sense of "to tolerate or accommodate oneself too" which is not the case. I can accept (truth) that people will be dishonest and there is nothing you can do about it, and I choose not to accept (tolerate) it in my life. This is living in reality. (This is also a short lesson on context.) I think you are making gross assumptions about me based mostly on your past experiences with women. I've come to this conclusion because most of the large leaps about my character are false and you seem more focused on me than my particular stance on the issue.
sanskrit Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 I've been able to come to the conclusion through your writings that you don't think very highly of women. I don't think highly of -people- in my culture, women are just more hypocritical and easier to pick on.
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