Cabin Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Hi, I'm still fairly new to this forum, but in reading many different threads I've observed that there are many generalizations about MM. Perhaps I am misreading, or I just haven't read enough, but the generalizations I've read are that most MM are cake-eaters, will tell OW anything to keep stringing them along, lie about plans to leave their wives... I've really been thinking about this. As an OW myself (married though), I wondered if there are that many generalizations to be made about MM, surely there are equally as many to be made about OW. I'm not starting this thread to create conflict or invite argument, but I wondered... if OW tend to have very similar experiences (there have been references on this threads to read other threads because the stories are recycled over and over again...) then surely that must be because OW tend to behave in very similar ways too. Does that make any sense? If I'm tempted to scrutinize my AP for falling into the "typical" description of a MM, then don't I also have to reflect on how I fit the typical OW mould? Thoughts? Cabin
BB07 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 There is certainly validity in thinking OW's have some similar traits, I think some of them are just common to women as most women tend to be the fixer, and nurturing and a lot of us tend to be somewhat naive in not seeing the reality of a situation. In the past, I have always tended to believe what someone says to me fully expecting them to back it up with actions, well not anymore. I do see a lot of diversity here with the different past and present OW but perhaps it's because there are more of us posting and I've been around a while so I somewhat know several posters.
MorningCoffee Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 In the book entitled Will He Really Leave Her For Me?, author Rona Subotnik describes many common patterns of affairs, and of the participation on the part of those involved. While not true in all places for all people, there are some strikingly common themes on all sides.
fascinated Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 It seems that anyone in a committed relationship who is stepping out with an AP is considered a cake eater. Those people are lying to some degree and have boundary issues. Is is safe to say that OW also have boundary issues? Don't OM and OW both have difficulty committing and problems sticking with the bad stuff in a real relationship? I say that because the people I know personally who are okay being the OM or OW are rarely able to stay in a committed relationship theirselves. It's easier for them to work within the constraints of an A because they don't have to have a R based on reality, they get all the good stuff and little of the bad.
Silly_Girl Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 It seems that anyone in a committed relationship who is stepping out with an AP is considered a cake eater. Those people are lying to some degree and have boundary issues. Is is safe to say that OW also have boundary issues? Don't OM and OW both have difficulty committing and problems sticking with the bad stuff in a real relationship? I say that because the people I know personally who are okay being the OM or OW are rarely able to stay in a committed relationship theirselves. It's easier for them to work within the constraints of an A because they don't have to have a R based on reality, they get all the good stuff and little of the bad. This surprises me. I've read on here of OW who had previously been in 20/25 yr Rs. Do you consider them to be commitment-phobes? I hadn't heard this theory on OW before and it intrigues me.
waytogo Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 For the most part, it seems OW are vulnerable if only at the point of becoming OW. In reading posts of OW, even those who are or claim to be happy, I see insecurity and immaturity (I was for sure both when I was OW). The MM's show immaturity also. They complain about home, but many make no attempts to change thier home life. If MM tried to improve home and it didn't work; they stay and complain some more. They justify immoral behavior while claiming thier high morals keep them where they are. Of course, my statements are general. It is a 'common thread' I have read in the stories I've read and heard in life.
SoleMate Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 In reading posts of OW, even those who are or claim to be happy, I see insecurity and immaturity... I've noticed that too. Also depression and naivete.
waytogo Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I've noticed that too. Also depression and naivete. You are so right! Please do add those 2 to what I was at that time! I don't say these things to insult others, I'm admitting it was me. I can't believe how lucky I am in spite of myself. If someone else could bypass the stupidity I distracted myself with...well I want them to. I still need to be fair. There was a point that Budda, Jesus and God could have told me what a mess I was making, and I wouldn't have believed one of them. Hard lesson, well learned. I'm thankful.
BB07 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I've noticed that too. Also depression and naivete. Raises hand and says me too. I've been on the net forever it seems but back in the time when I was knowingly the ow I didn't find this site nor anything similar so I sometimes wonder if I would have made different choices after learning how common some of the commonalities are. mm and ow commonalities.......just to clarify. I would like to hope that having that knowledge would have influenced me in a positive way but I can't say for certain.
waytogo Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Raises hand and says me too. I've been on the net forever it seems but back in the time when I was knowingly the ow I didn't find this site nor anything similar so I sometimes wonder if I would have made different choices after learning how common some of the commonalities are. mm and ow commonalities.......just to clarify. I would like to hope that having that knowledge would have influenced me in a positive way but I can't say for certain. BB, I like and appreciate your comments. I speak for myself when I say, I felt so 'special', no one could have told me anything. Though my case never turned so horrible as what I've seen, I'm horrified myself at how 'special' I was feeling. No, he didn't want it to end. WHY WOULD HE?? If forced to bet, he has an OW now, demanding nothing. Bet he'll try to keep her as well if she get's tired of the role. I'm not worried about that from any envy vantage-point. There is a real human that is his BW. No one wants to be betrayed. Some of us will for some reason assist in a betrayal. I haven't figured out completely yet why I would. She never hurt me in any way. While he and I developed some friendship, why did I take his word about so much? I don't take every other friends' words without more questions and thought and evidence. I must have REALLY wanted a man, more than I knew. Sadly, it wouldn't have been that hard for me to meet men. I guess I was lazy in addition to the other adjectives posted here.
BB07 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 BB, I like and appreciate your comments. I speak for myself when I say, I felt so 'special', no one could have told me anything. Though my case never turned so horrible as what I've seen, I'm horrified myself at how 'special' I was feeling. No, he didn't want it to end. WHY WOULD HE?? If forced to bet, he has an OW now, demanding nothing. Bet he'll try to keep her as well if she get's tired of the role. I'm not worried about that from any envy vantage-point. There is a real human that is his BW. No one wants to be betrayed. Some of us will for some reason assist in a betrayal. I haven't figured out completely yet why I would. She never hurt me in any way. While he and I developed some friendship, why did I take his word about so much? I don't take every other friends' words without more questions and thought and evidence. I must have REALLY wanted a man, more than I knew. Sadly, it wouldn't have been that hard for me to meet men. I guess I was lazy in addition to the other adjectives posted here. Oh I hear ya.......believe me I do. I look back and try to figure it out, why I reacted as I did, why I did what I did. Until I get intimately involved I'm good with boundaries, my intuition is good but once I've crossed a certain point, I lost my good sense with him and yes one or two other men in my past also. The BS and I ended up in several conversations at the end (when I found out the truth) and it had a profound affect on me when I had to face the heart-wrenching pain I had helped cause her. Facing it is just one of many reasons that I know I could never be part of an affair again. I've known for a long time that I need to look deeper into what makes me tick and address some things from the past so I took the step of starting therapy this week. I'm just so tired of all this "stuff" and I never want to have another relationship that is unhealthy again and I want to have the tools to fix me. I'm 50.......so it's past time damn it.
Gentlegirl Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 [Hi, I just wanted to say that before I started the affair, I had a very happy 33 year old marriage. My husband became ill, no longer recognised me and I had no family to support me in his care. THAT'S CALLED VULNERABLE. I for one did not have commitment issues. QUOTE=fascinated;3399219]It seems that anyone in a committed relationship who is stepping out with an AP is considered a cake eater. Those people are lying to some degree and have boundary issues. Is is safe to say that OW also have boundary issues? Don't OM and OW both have difficulty committing and problems sticking with the bad stuff in a real relationship? I say that because the people I know personally who are okay being the OM or OW are rarely able to stay in a committed relationship theirselves. It's easier for them to work within the constraints of an A because they don't have to have a R based on reality, they get all the good stuff and little of the bad.
greengoddess Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I agree gentle girl. I would consider many ow more committed since they stay hanging on for years to someone with no commitment to them and a very committed relationship with another. the difference I guess would be the ow who hops from married man to mm not caring about the destruction because they don't want a committed relationship. that's a whole different kind of psychological issue.
daisy love Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Why do you assume that the MM is more committed to BW because they share a piece of paper? It's not always that easy for someone to leave a M even if the love is gone. That doesn't mean that they are more committed to the BW than the OW. You all are confusing leaving with commitment.
waytogo Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Why do you assume that the MM is more committed to BW because they share a piece of paper? It's not always that easy for someone to leave a M even if the love is gone. That doesn't mean that they are more committed to the BW than the OW. You all are confusing leaving with commitment. I could wet my pants with this one! It sounds more like you are confusing getting f*cked on the side as some special treatment. No one in this guy's life is treated special. One person has a reasonable expectation. That person is not you. No one is 'special' to him, but him. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you may be special to yourself and someone who may actually be worth your committment.
greengoddess Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Why do you assume that the MM is more committed to BW because they share a piece of paper? It's not always that easy for someone to leave a M even if the love is gone. That doesn't mean that they are more committed to the BW than the OW. You all are confusing leaving with commitment. How difficult is a divorce especiaally when no kids are involved. Seriously wake up. Tell him no more until he seperates. Tell him you will no longer be his side toy. Have some respect and make him treat you with respect not as some hidden little secret from the world.
daisy love Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I could wet my pants with this one! It sounds more like you are confusing getting f*cked on the side as some special treatment. No one in this guy's life is treated special. One person has a reasonable expectation. That person is not you. No one is 'special' to him, but him. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you may be special to yourself and someone who may actually be worth your committment. I am not confused, but thanks for the answer anyway.
daisy love Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 How difficult is a divorce especiaally when no kids are involved. Seriously wake up. Tell him no more until he seperates. Tell him you will no longer be his side toy. Have some respect and make him treat you with respect not as some hidden little secret from the world. LOL. Why would I tell him that? I love him and want to be there for him. I don't kick ppl when they are down. I don't know about you.
crazycatlady Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 LOL. Why would I tell him that? I love him and want to be there for him. I don't kick ppl when they are down. I don't know about you. BULL....You are kicking his wife who doesn't even know she is down.
daisy love Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 BULL....You are kicking his wife who doesn't even know she is down. I am not in love with his W.
bentnotbroken Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 I am not in love with his W. And I would guess no one here loves him(other than you). So if loving somebody is the prerequisite for not kicking someone when they are down(using your terminology)then people here should be able to kick away at him cause you say he is down and his actions suck. All of this based on your rationale for him of course.
thissecretgirl Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 To me, generalisations are just that. Every individualis different as is every relationship. Its like the generalisation that every BS is bitter, not understanding and uninterested in sex. So if you were a married woman who is having an affair and whose husband is also having an affair, you would be a vulnerable, depressed, lying, cheating, manipulating, cake eating, commitment phobe who is bitter and not the least bit interested in sex. Crikey. Or it could just be that you are a well rounded individual who is simply in unhappy circumstances. If we all compare personality traits, OW and BS alike, we are bound to come up with similar ones. Plus I will bet there are even fluctuations in those; for example there are times when I feel vulnerable and there are times when i couldnt be further from it, same with feeling depressed or a bit blue. Never been a commitment phobe though, infact I look forward to having a long lasting, committed relationship. Everyone is different.
SidLyon Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 LOL. ... I don't kick ppl when they are down. I don't know about you. BULL....You are kicking his wife who doesn't even know she is down:confused: I am not in love with his W. Err... and nobody here on LS is in love with you Daisy. What does that say, using your rationale?
thissecretgirl Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 Why do you assume that the MM is more committed to BW because they share a piece of paper? It's not always that easy for someone to leave a M even if the love is gone. That doesn't mean that they are more committed to the BW than the OW. You all are confusing leaving with commitment. Daisy perhaps you could start another thread about this, then you and all the people who dont love you can go and discuss it there with you. Since all this is ruining a perfectly good discussion. Can we get back on topic please?
daisy love Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 Daisy perhaps you could start another thread about this, then you and all the people who dont love you can go and discuss it there with you. Since all this is ruining a perfectly good discussion. Can we get back on topic please? No thanks. I don't think starting a thread about what ppl I don't even know think of my love would be very interesting. I am sorry for interrupting the thread tho, even tho most of mine have been treated the same.
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