Divorce and leaving with OW now, or staying in loveless marriage and leaving later

[Mimolicious]

Stuck - I will tell you this much. If you don't make a decision now (ie. stay M or get D) one will be made for you.

 

I don't know if your OW is single but if she is, she's going to want things to move along. Relationships need to expand or contract. If it contracts, it means it's over.

 

I can pretty much guarantee you that she WILL NOT stick around for 7-8 years, "waiting" for your son to grow up. She has a life to lead and wants a man to share it with.

 

And don't even bother giving her the line "money, kid, etc" as to why you can't divorce because you will automatically fall into the cliche of parroting out of the mythical MM handbook.

 

If you really mean what you say, "I do care about the OW more than my own wife. I have every intention of leaving my wife for the OW." you will have to PROVE IT to her.

 

While I agree with separating, I DO NOT agree that "leaving behind your OW" is the best course of action. Your OW will see this as you not being sure and waffling about your decision. I doubt you want this.

 

If you truly love this woman, think you can have a phenomenal life with her, YOU BITE THE BULLET, get divorced and get on with your happy life!

 

Money is just money. Children are resilient. Happiness on the other hand? You should grab it when it's in front of you and never let go.

 

 

Who said this was about the OW? Why does he have to PROVE anything to her? I think he has a duck lined up that holds more concern and that is his son. Which with all due respect comes first than anyone in this picture. Amazing how some people place relationships that are replaceable (yes they are) before their parenting.

[nyrias]

Sarcasm appreciated!

 

My husband cheated on me. Hurt like hell. We got past it.

 

Now, if I suddenly" I;m not past it, I'm still hurt, I don't love him, but along came Mr. Great ... let the affair begin!", my actions are just as bad as the ones that hurt me.

 

I'm sure the original posters wife had her "reasons" that she used to justify her cheating... he and she are one and the same.

 

You can justify it any way you like... cheating is cheating.

 

All the OP owes his wife, is to tell her that "i do not want to be in marital relationship anymore. I will treat you like a stranger from this second on and you will be hearing from my lawyer".

 

At that point, there is no more relationship, and he does not have to disclose anything to her, just like he does not have to disclose anything to a stranger on the internet.

 

No relationship, no cheating. Very simple solution.

[Spark1111]

 

Whoa. I didn't bring up the S word - but what should we call someone who claims they had no clue, had no idea, didn't think anything was wrong and was COMPLETELY blindsided? Wanna go with clueless?

 

Because how can you be THAT out of touch with your spouse? How can you be THAT disconnected from what your spouse is feeling? How can you think your M is 100% happy....while your partner feels the opposite? Seriously.

 

But truth be told, I do not (and never will) believe a betrayed spouse who claims they had no idea.

 

I think it's total bulls**t and something said just to make the BS look better to others. That way they can play the oh-so-innocent victim to the big bad WS.

 

 

Ahahahaha! :D:D

 

Another OW who is convinced her MM is not lying to her!

 

Another one who believes he doesn't have sex with the spouse, hosts family events, takes vacations, socializes with the spouse and their mutual friends, has FUN with it all.

 

And when the BS gets an inkling of something distant within him, and asks if anything is wrong, is told "nothing" or "the job is stressing me out" or, "I'm thinking of Dad" who just died.

 

Another OW who believes all the crap coming out of his mouth!

 

...If I had a nickel....:bunny:

[nyrias]

but he has already admitted to cheating ( I believe that in his first post he calls it "an exit affair")... this started before he began divorce proceedings, and before he told he he was unhappy and wanted a divorce.

 

you can wrap it up pretty and put a bow on it... he's still cheating, and his main concern right now should be what is best for his son, not what is best for him or even what is best for his wife... his son should come first... I have no idea what that means in this particular situation, as we are only hearing his side of things... I wonder what his wife's story would be if we were able to ask her

 

He *was* cheating. NO disagreement here.

 

He needs to inform his wife that he will no longer be in a marital relationship with her. Whatever he does AFTER that point is not cheating.

 

I don't know what is best for his son. He needs to figure it out.

 

However, if he has decided to leave his wife, his obligation is to tell her. After that, he has no obligation to do what is best for his soon-to-be ex-wife.

[bentnotbroken]

Ahahahaha! :D:D

 

Another OW who is convinced her MM is not lying to her!

 

Another one who believes he doesn't have sex with the spouse, hosts family events, takes vacations, socializes with the spouse and their mutual friends, has FUN with it all.

 

And when the BS gets an inkling of something distant within him, and asks if anything is wrong, is told "nothing" or "the job is stressing me out" or, "I'm thinking of Dad" who just died.

 

Another OW who believes all the crap coming out of his mouth!

 

...If I had a nickel....:bunny:

 

 

A quarter at least....tough economic times you know.

[nyrias]

I see your point, but however the divorce happens, it would seem that the best outcome would be for the ex spouses to at least be able to be civil to one another, as this would provide the best outcome for the son

 

No disagreement here either.

 

However, i would stress that once he is in divorce proceeding with his wife, while being civil, he no longer has to concern about her welfare.

[tami-chan]

Sarcasm appreciated!

 

My husband cheated on me. Hurt like hell. We got past it.

 

Now, if I suddenly" I;m not past it, I'm still hurt, I don't love him, but along came Mr. Great ... let the affair begin!", my actions are just as bad as the ones that hurt me.

 

I'm sure the original posters wife had her "reasons" that she used to justify her cheating... he and she are one and the same.

 

You can justify it any way you like... cheating is cheating.

 

I don't know if the actions are as bad. You see when trust has been broken, for many it takes a while for it to be restored , even never. When the vow of fidelity has been breached/broken, then it's no longer there. I mean, married people have to really work hard to put that back together, many times it is just not possible.

 

I know that when my xH cheated on me for the first time-that was the end of all the promises/vows. We did not divorced then but neither were we husband and wife in the truest/ traditional sense. He would always ask if I was leaving or if I am planning to be with someone else and I always told him " I am not sure". I knew it was an option for me. BUT there were other things that were important to me then but when I did decide, I did it without guilt(although I was afraid he would get violent). When I told him I was divorcing him and that I was with someone else, there was so much anger but he could never accuse me of "betraying him". As far as I am concerned once you cheat, all bets are off.

[nyrias]

I don't know if the actions are as bad. You see when trust has been broken, for many it takes a while for it to be restored , even never. When the vow of fidelity has been breached/broken, then it's no longer there. I mean, married people have to really work hard to put that back together, many times it is just not possible.

 

I know that when my xH cheated on me for the first time-that was the end of all the promises/vows. We did not divorced then but neither were we husband and wife in the truest/ traditional sense. He would always ask if I was leaving or if I am planning to be with someone else and I always told him " I am not sure". I knew it was an option for me. BUT there were other things that were important to me then but when I did decide, I did it without guilt(although I was afraid he would get violent). When I told him I was divorcing him and that I was with someone else, there was so much anger but he could never accuse me of "betraying him". As far as I am concerned once you cheat, all bets are off.

 

I think the principle here is whether you have communicated the status of your relationship with your husband.

 

If you have (i.e. "I am heart broken, and i don't consider us married anymore"), then I don't think you are cheating on him anymore, no matter what you do (and withhold from him).

 

Of course it is better to make it official by divorcing him, but i don't think that piece of paper is important (in a moral dimension), as long as you haven made it clear that you will no longer treat him as a husband and bind by any vows.

[Spark1111]

No disagreement here either.

 

However, i would stress that once he is in divorce proceeding with his wife, while being civil, he no longer has to concern about her welfare.

 

I understand this point, I truly do, but I have to disagree nyrias.

 

His wife WILL ALWAYS be the mother of his son, and as such, will have tremendous influence over his well-being and his perception of his dad and their relationship.

 

He has a choice of how well he will treat her, and I advise he do so with as much kindness and integrity as possible.

 

His x-wife's welfare, as it will directly impact his son, will ALWAYS be a cause of concern for SIV.

 

And as children adore both of their parents, his son will be watching his dad's actions, not only towards him, but towards his mother, for the rest of his life.

[LilyBart]

Okay, while I wouldn't word it exactly as you did above, I do understand and agree to some extent with what you are saying (I think).

 

But my original point was that the OP's wife is likely going to know that there was something going on if she sees/hears about her STBXH out and about with a new woman.

 

That was my point that the wife isn't stupid...she will likely put 2 and 2 together and figure out that there was at least some involvement before the divorce was filed/finalized.

 

That's what I meant.

 

You're absolutely right.

 

And I know people are going to take this the wrong way - but that's why things need to be kept on the down-low UNITL the D is finalized.

 

Once the couple is "officially divorced" people can't say much - even if there is a new couple on the scene 3 months later. This can be explained away by the newly single person getting back on the horse.

 

As for your other point about the BW having to know something is wrong, well yes, to an outsider (an OW or any 3rd party outside the marriage) it would certainly seem that way.

 

But like others have said, trust can be very strong. No one wants to believe that the person they love is lying to them or that things are not as they appear.

 

So while it seems obvious to someone outside it is not always obvious when you (general you) are involved directly.

 

Speaking very candidly from my own experience, I did know something was terribly wrong in those weeks leading up to d-day. I just didn't think my H was capable of an affair. How wrong I was.

 

Thank you for the discussion.

 

Thank you for being so honest.

 

This was my point - that most (if not all) BS's "know" something is wrong. It's never completely out of left field (even if one doesn't think it was an A).

[LilyBart]

When I was in Japan, I noticed that people had affairs and the betrayed spouses didn't really have to know about it. I think on some level they suspected that their partner might have had some sort of affair with another partner, but they didn't have to know the truth. The bottom line was, 'don't leave me' for another person. Shag another person if you want, but don't divorce. The older I get, the more stories I read about/hear about, the more practical I think this approach is. Why not just have an affair and not let her know about it, and if she finds out, well, you're even.

 

Interesting you bring this up - see, I have heard that IN JAPAN, there is a plethora of "pension divorces".

 

Meaning, the long suffering W will hang in there, raise the kids, do the housework, turn a blind eye to an A......but once the H retires and collects his pension, the W will file for D and walk away with half the money!

 

She already has her life "set" (with friends, with hobbies) and is eager to move on to the next phase of her life. The poor cheating hubby on the other hand, is left in an empty house trying to figure out how to run it (since it was the W's "job" to do so).

 

I don't know how true this is - but I did hear about it.

[silktricks]

I don't know if the actions are as bad. You see when trust has been broken, for many it takes a while for it to be restored , even never. When the vow of fidelity has been breached/broken, then it's no longer there. I mean, married people have to really work hard to put that back together, many times it is just not possible.

Many times it is not possible, however, if the fBS spouse makes the choice to now become the WS, then IMO they are just as "bad" (I hate that word) as the spouse who broke trust initially.

 

For the most part, there is at least an appearance of forgiveness that goes with staying in the marriage. If the WS broke the trust once and then received "forgiveness" from the BS, but then the fBS chooses to break trust, what makes them any "better" than the WS? Nothing. In my opinion, if the fBS says he/she has forgiven, but is in actuality simply biding his/her time for the optimum "revenge" moment, they are somewhat worse than the WS who first broke trust.

 

I know that when my xH cheated on me for the first time-that was the end of all the promises/vows. We did not divorced then but neither were we husband and wife in the truest/ traditional sense. He would always ask if I was leaving or if I am planning to be with someone else and I always told him " I am not sure". I knew it was an option for me. BUT there were other things that were important to me then but when I did decide, I did it without guilt(although I was afraid he would get violent). When I told him I was divorcing him and that I was with someone else, there was so much anger but he could never accuse me of "betraying him". As far as I am concerned once you cheat, all bets are off.

The fact is that you never did "forgive" and basically you let your husband know that. I don't completely disagree that "all bets are off", but, if you (as the fBS) imply to your spouse that you have forgiven him/her, then IMO "all bets ARE off". You (not you personally...) have taken "all bets" off the table again. It seems cruel to imply forgiveness but then 5, 10, 15 years later say - "remember that time you cheated on me? Well, I'm leaving you for it now." All bets may be off but there is an implied time-limit on those off-bets, too.

[nyrias]

I understand this point, I truly do, but I have to disagree nyrias.

 

His wife WILL ALWAYS be the mother of his son, and as such, will have tremendous influence over his well-being and his perception of his dad and their relationship.

 

He has a choice of how well he will treat her, and I advise he do so with as much kindness and integrity as possible.

 

His x-wife's welfare, as it will directly impact his son, will ALWAYS be a cause of concern for SIV.

 

And as children adore both of their parents, his son will be watching his dad's actions, not only towards him, but towards his mother, for the rest of his life.

 

I don't think I am disagreeing with you. However, we may have different interpretation of what "kindness" and "integrity" means.

 

For example, once the dissolution of the relationship is out in the open, i don't think he needs to disclose his dating activities to his ex-wife. In fact, it would be viewed as "kindness" not to flaunt his new relationships.

 

Furthermore, when he plans his future, he certainly needs to take his son into consideration, but i don't think he needs to put his ex-wife's happiness, over his new relationships.

 

There is one more point. I don't think he needs to tiptoe around WHY they are breaking up in front of his children. They know ANYWAY. He may not need to vilify his ex-wife, but there is also no reason to give her a pass and sugar coat it.

 

It is a bad situation, no doubt but hopefully he can make the most out of it.

[nyrias]

Interesting you bring this up - see, I have heard that IN JAPAN, there is a plethora of "pension divorces".

 

Meaning, the long suffering W will hang in there, raise the kids, do the housework, turn a blind eye to an A......but once the H retires and collects his pension, the W will file for D and walk away with half the money!

 

She already has her life "set" (with friends, with hobbies) and is eager to move on to the next phase of her life. The poor cheating hubby on the other hand, is left in an empty house trying to figure out how to run it (since it was the W's "job" to do so).

 

I don't know how true this is - but I did hear about it.

 

That sounds like a totally alternate way (socially speaking) to set up a marriage. The premise is economics, NOT love & openness.

 

By turning a blind eye, the wife is also exercising deception (by pretending not to know, and not to care). She exchange economic well-being with years of her life.

 

I am not condemning this way of life. Different culture has different values. But i found it fascinating.

[nyrias]

 

The fact is that you never did "forgive" and basically you let your husband know that. I don't completely disagree that "all bets are off", but, if you (as the fBS) imply to your spouse that you have forgiven him/her, then IMO "all bets ARE off". You (not you personally...) have taken "all bets" off the table again. It seems cruel to imply forgiveness but then 5, 10, 15 years later say - "remember that time you cheated on me? Well, I'm leaving you for it now." All bets may be off but there is an implied time-limit on those off-bets, too.

 

Is there an implied time-limit?

 

Personally i think relationship is a two-person sport. Anyone can "dissolve" the team at any time, given he/she is preparing to face the consequences.

 

I think the only principle is to communicate truthfully about your stance on the relationship.

 

If a BS is not sure if she is going to get over it, if she wants to be keeping her options open, she should be able to do so, as long as she informed her WS.

 

Of course the WS has the option to leave too, at that point.

[LilyBart]

I may be in the minority on this, but I figure that your child's happiness should come first... at least while they are young. This does not always mean that parents should stay together if they are terribly unhappy, but they should at least give every effort possible to stay together, and if that fails, at least the child will know that they tried.

 

I subscribe to the "oxygen mask theory" - when you're on a plane and the oxygen masks fall down, they ALWAYS say you need to put on your own FIRST before you help another (even a child).

 

Hence, if one is HAPPY I believe everything else will fall into place.

 

When one is happy, it allows your world to expand beyond yourself - and you become more giving, more patient and kinder. Exactly the type of parent one strives to be.

 

But I think the inverse is true as well - an UNHAPPY parent cannot focus on their child (I'm not talking about "loving" their child, which all parents do). Their emotional struggles get in the way.

Edited May 16, 2011 by LilyBart

[John Michael Kane]

I understand this point, I truly do, but I have to disagree nyrias.

 

His wife WILL ALWAYS be the mother of his son, and as such, will have tremendous influence over his well-being and his perception of his dad and their relationship.

 

He has a choice of how well he will treat her, and I advise he do so with as much kindness and integrity as possible.

 

His x-wife's welfare, as it will directly impact his son, will ALWAYS be a cause of concern for SIV.

 

And as children adore both of their parents, his son will be watching his dad's actions, not only towards him, but towards his mother, for the rest of his life.

 

Sure she's the mother but she's not the only parent in the relationship, neither does she get to make all of the decisions.

[LilyBart]

Who said this was about the OW? Why does he have to PROVE anything to her? I think he has a duck lined up that holds more concern and that is his son. Which with all due respect comes first than anyone in this picture. Amazing how some people place relationships that are replaceable (yes they are) before their parenting.

 

I didn't say this was completely about the OW - but in his OP the OW was also mentioned as being important, along with the importance of his son.

 

To me, yes, his son is the most important component. But he's already taking care of this facet (or at least it sounded like he was, in terms of talking to the D lawyer/figuring things out).

 

What I was doing was offering the OP a view from the OW perspective. If he loves this woman as much as he says he does - HELL YEAH, he will have to prove it to her. After all, the onus is on him because he's the one who's married.

[Spark1111]

I don't think I am disagreeing with you. However, we may have different interpretation of what "kindness" and "integrity" means.

 

For example, once the dissolution of the relationship is out in the open, i don't think he needs to disclose his dating activities to his ex-wife. In fact, it would be viewed as "kindness" not to flaunt his new relationships.

 

Furthermore, when he plans his future, he certainly needs to take his son into consideration, but i don't think he needs to put his ex-wife's happiness, over his new relationships.

 

There is one more point. I don't think he needs to tiptoe around WHY they are breaking up in front of his children. They know ANYWAY. He may not need to vilify his ex-wife, but there is also no reason to give her a pass and sugar coat it.

 

It is a bad situation, no doubt but hopefully he can make the most out of it.

 

I agree he does not need to flaunt his new relationship. But as it seems to be the impetus to his final decision, I am sure he will not wait too long.

 

Perhaps sooner than what will be construed as an appropriate amount of time during the dissolution of his marriage.

 

And it sertainly could color the circumstances for him, his unknowing but soon to be x, and his son, IMHO.

[silktricks]

Is there an implied time-limit?

 

Personally i think relationship is a two-person sport. Anyone can "dissolve" the team at any time, given he/she is preparing to face the consequences.

 

I think the only principle is to communicate truthfully about your stance on the relationship.

 

If a BS is not sure if she is going to get over it, if she wants to be keeping her options open, she should be able to do so, as long as she informed her WS.

 

Of course the WS has the option to leave too, at that point.

Possibly I wasn't as clear as I tried to be. The point I was attempting to make is what you stated above. If the fWS is aware of the fact they have not been forgiven for their past, and he/she chooses to stay in the relationship under that circumstance, then the fBS has no obligation to be faithful (IMO).

 

If, however, the fBS has expressly stated they have forgiven the fWS, then using the past as a "reason" for their own "cheating" at some point down the line is (again IMO) out of bounds.

 

Of course, either person has the option of terminating the marriage at any time. An open and honest choice to leave rather than looking to find someone "better" prior to taking the leap is (again IMO) a more humane and, if you will, better choice .

[Mimolicious]

I didn't say this was completely about the OW - but in his OP the OW was also mentioned as being important, along with the importance of his son.

 

To me, yes, his son is the most important component. But he's already taking care of this facet (or at least it sounded like he was, in terms of talking to the D lawyer/figuring things out).

 

What I was doing was offering the OP a view from the OW perspective. If he loves this woman as much as he says he does - HELL YEAH, he will have to prove it to her. After all, the onus is on him because he's the one who's married.

 

I'm confused?? And since the OP only has 4th posts. Where do you get the info that this MM loves this OW soooo much? He never even mention loving his OW. He did say that he "cared" for her and that he discussed with her that they may not even work out.

 

Where does this concrete plans of proving anything to her come from?

[LilyBart]

I'm confused?? And since the OP only has 4th posts. Where do you get the info that this MM loves this OW soooo much? He never even mention loving his OW. He did say that he "cared" for her and that he discussed with her that they may not even work out.

 

Where does this concrete plans of proving anything to her come from?

 

True - he did mention that they have talked about things 'not working out'. I think this is a pretty normal thing to do.

 

And true, he didn't say he "loved" the OW but apparently the OW ranks higher at this point than the W (see below).

 

And she (OW) is the reason he would get divorced (see below).

 

Stuck wasn't the one who said he had plans of "proving" anything. I'm the one who told him, if he means what he says, he better prove it to her. Clear?

 

From Stuck's original post:

 

We haven't done anything physical yet but I do care about the OW more than my own wife.

 

I have every intention of leaving my wife for the OW. My dilemma is whether I should just bite the bullet and get a divorce now or wait until my son is older and more independent, which could take 7 or 8 years.

[tami-chan]

Possibly I wasn't as clear as I tried to be. The point I was attempting to make is what you stated above. If the fWS is aware of the fact they have not been forgiven for their past, and he/she chooses to stay in the relationship under that circumstance, then the fBS has no obligation to be faithful (IMO).

 

I agree!!!!

 

If, however, the fBS has expressly stated they have forgiven the fWS, then using the past as a "reason" for their own "cheating" at some point down the line is (again IMO) out of bounds.

 

Unfortunately, the journey to forgiveness is sometimes long and many give up mid-trip. Lesson to be learned, do not say you have forgiven-if you have no idea what forgiving requires of you.

 

Of course, either person has the option of terminating the marriage at any time. An open and honest choice to leave rather than looking to find someone "better" prior to taking the leap is (again IMO) a more humane and, if you will, better choice .

[nyrias]

Possibly I wasn't as clear as I tried to be. The point I was attempting to make is what you stated above. If the fWS is aware of the fact they have not been forgiven for their past, and he/she chooses to stay in the relationship under that circumstance, then the fBS has no obligation to be faithful (IMO).

 

If, however, the fBS has expressly stated they have forgiven the fWS, then using the past as a "reason" for their own "cheating" at some point down the line is (again IMO) out of bounds.

 

Of course, either person has the option of terminating the marriage at any time. An open and honest choice to leave rather than looking to find someone "better" prior to taking the leap is (again IMO) a more humane and, if you will, better choice .

 

Great.

 

One more point though. While this is all great in theory, because human communication is sometimes vague and ambiguous, misunderstanding may occur.

 

Thus, it is important to be as calm, and as clear as possible during this kind of relationship communication. In an emotional moment, a person may not be hearing what the other person may say.

[Mimolicious]

True - he did mention that they have talked about things 'not working out'. I think this is a pretty normal thing to do.

 

And true, he didn't say he "loved" the OW but apparently the OW ranks higher at this point than the W (see below).

 

And she (OW) is the reason he would get divorced (see below).

 

Stuck wasn't the one who said he had plans of "proving" anything. I'm the one who told him, if he means what he says, he better prove it to her. Clear?

 

From Stuck's original post:

 

 

I see...

 

The true question is, WHY is this dude still M? They both checked out a while ago. People really create their own misery.

 

Now there is a 3rd person involved (poor chick) that is going to be taken for a little ride. Tst, tsk, tsk. It would be interesting to know, how serious his OW is about their "thang". Hope is not someone like Ol' good Lizzie. LOL! (Where in the world is she nowadays?)