Ruby Slippers Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I think that was blowback from the meet halfway thread, rather than being based on what you wrote here. That makes sense. Thanks. I have to remember that there are a lot of very frustrated and angry men here. I am coming out of a long period of cynicism, frustration, and sadness, so I get it. But it doesn't help anything to take those feelings out on me and other women on the Internet.
MrNate Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 You know what? If anyone's going to have my back, I'm glad it's you, Woggle! I've been the target of some really mean attacks from men on here lately, for the first time ever on this board, really, and I have seen the same toward other women in some other threads. It's making me think about quitting LS for good, because who needs that? Yes, I talk about my cynical thoughts and feeling here sometimes, but I also give encouraging advice to people and keep getting more solid on a good path. As for chasing, I haven't engaged in most of the behavior described here. I definitely prefer to be a little more traditional and let the man come to me in certain ways. But I was thinking today about how most of the guys I've been with have told me, "I've never felt more like a man than I do with you." And I think that's because I do my best to let a man be a man. And I really think that most men (or the kind of men I click best with) want to pursue what they want, and find doing this motivating and uplifting. I don't ignore a man or play games. A man always knows where he stands with me. And trust me, I pursue what I want in every other area. But where men are concerned, I feel that a more demure stance is much more natural and enjoyable for both sides. This (and many other things) is why Ruby is such a woman.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 That makes sense. Thanks. I have to remember that there are a lot of very frustrated and angry men here. I am coming out of a long period of cynicism, frustration, and sadness, so I get it. But it doesn't help anything to take those feelings out on me and other women on the Internet. I think a lot of people in general are very protective of their own egos, and self perceptions. This goes double for people who already have self esteem issues (which the "frustrated and angry men" tend to have). Seemingly innocuous statements are viewed as personal affronts. It's a shame but it happens.
threebyfate Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 From what I've seen of most of Ruby's posts over the years, she's validated the men way more than she's ever knocked them. As far as men enjoying the chase, some do, others don't. It's reliant on individual, which includes reliance on the woman's preference as well.
GoodOnPaper Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 It seems to be a common delusion among women that all of us men absolutley love to chase a woman who plays hard to get. So this will be a sort of poll, to see if that is actually the case. As a guy who has always been very BAD at attracting women, playing hard to get with me is the WORST thing a woman could do if she is interested in me -- instead of realizing that she wants me to chase her, I will quickly conclude that she is not attracted to me. In fact, it actually takes quite a lot to convince me that a woman might actually be attracted to me. That said, while I can do without the chasing, it is important for me to feel that I had to go at least halfway in choosing my partner. Maybe a subtle distinction but an important one.
chuckles11 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Well, to be honest, I found Ruby's post in that thread to be obnoxious as well and I see why people took umbrage. Primarily because I don't think it's helpful to tell an OP that has admitted to having a problem with sabotaging relationships that she should take it as an affront that a guy asked her to meet halfway on a date. That seems like a rather innocuous thing to draw a line in the sand about, when it could easily be hashed out. However, this is all off topic, and I agree after reading Ruby's posting history that she is usually fair. Edited May 14, 2011 by chuckles11
refurb Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I've always found "the chase" came pretty naturally. I never really put a lot of thought into it. RF
Disillusioned Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 A couple of things nobody has brought up: 1. What if the only guys who'll chase a woman are creeps? 2. And what happens if no guys take the bait? Can the woman then feel justified she's too good for any man?
sanskrit Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 A couple of things nobody has brought up: 1. What if the only guys who'll chase a woman are creeps? 2. And what happens if no guys take the bait? Can the woman then feel justified she's too good for any man? Doesn't happen. Because of the rapid decline in general health in this country, poor diet and sedentary lifestyles, in all but the most competitive dating markets (LA, NYC, certain college towns, etc.) women who aren't hidden away in a tower somewhere or way out in the sticks, and who are not obese get vast amounts of male attention, approaches, requests for phone numbers, from all types of men. Cultivate female friends and you will see what I mean very quickly. Don't listen when they say they only get hit on by creeps, their definition of a creep is a guy who is two notches or less above them in general attractiveness and social value. If she is a 5 and you are a 7, you're a creep on a cold approach of a stranger until you can differentiate yourself. I have female friends of all descriptions, and have seen this for 30 years, for example, the one I tend to go out with the most casually from time to time is out and out pudgy if not flat out obese, but she gets truly mind-boggling amounts of attention from men such that she is dismissive of all but the cream of the crop. Guys she dismisses as "creeps" are usually anything but, polite, not drunk, interesting, hell if I were a girl I'd talk to them... no dice from her though because her opinion of her market value has become so overblown from all the attention. For this reason, the cold approach of women is a pro's game only, and an ego deflator otherwise until you are sure you can project a "top 5%" aura on every approach or have tons of practice and experience. Thing is, though, the only way to get better is through practice.
Ruby Slippers Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 From what I've seen of most of Ruby's posts over the years, she's validated the men way more than she's ever knocked them. Awww, I am feeling the love now. Thanks, y'all. I know it's stupid, but I'm sensitive, and even things people say on a message board can hurt my feelings a little. We're real people behind these usernames! Y'all are so sweet for having my back. My faith in LS is restored.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Ruby is entitled to her opinion. She doesn't express it in a nasty way, just tells it as she sees it. I may disagree with her viewpoint, but that doesn't mean that it's necessarily wrong. It's right for the type of man SHE wants to date. Hell, she said that she would never date A.) a virgin, and B.) a man living at home at 28. Therefore, she would never date me, and I shouldn't be surprised that her views don't mesh with mine. We aren't compatible, or should I say I'm not compatible with a girl like her.
fishtaco Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Thanks, y'all. I know it's stupid, but I'm sensitive, and even things people say on a message board can hurt my feelings a little. We're real people behind these usernames! You know RS, you have some pretty strong opinions. So why not strongly stick to them and not let nay sayers bother you? I'm actually surprised you're so sensitive. Quite different from when you are proclaiming your views. If someone is getting on your case too much, put them on ignore. I have a few on my ignore list.
Woggle Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 That makes sense. Thanks. I have to remember that there are a lot of very frustrated and angry men here. I am coming out of a long period of cynicism, frustration, and sadness, so I get it. But it doesn't help anything to take those feelings out on me and other women on the Internet. I agree. I have never seen you as the type to use and take advantage of men but what I think some women don't get is that there are women who do use things like chasing and gentlemanly behavior in order to take a man for all he is worth and drop him when he is sucked dry. I wish women even if they don't agree would at least be more empathetic to why some men feel the need to be hyper vigilant in protecting ourselves from this.
Author Velociraptor Posted May 14, 2011 Author Posted May 14, 2011 Wow. How in the world did my post evoke such a mean-spirited reaction? Just calling it as I see it. You want the man to chase you and put in all the effort. To me that equals a princessy narcisstic attitude that just ain't attractive.
Author Velociraptor Posted May 14, 2011 Author Posted May 14, 2011 That makes sense. Thanks. I have to remember that there are a lot of very frustrated and angry men here. I am coming out of a long period of cynicism, frustration, and sadness, so I get it. But it doesn't help anything to take those feelings out on me and other women on the Internet. Your attitude to dating is that the man should put in all the effort and endlesssly chase you while you do nothing but react to his advances. It's the entitled "me me me" attitude of yours(and others womesn) that grinds my gears. You don't have anything to be cynical or frustrated about when it comes to dating. You are a woman, you have it easy. Men are more justified in being cynical because we have it 100 times as harder as you do when it comes to dating.
Author Velociraptor Posted May 14, 2011 Author Posted May 14, 2011 Ruby Slippers ,since you are also of the belief that it's better that the man loves the woman more than the woman loves the man in a relationship. Maybe you shouldn't be too surprised if you get called out for being a wanna be princess? Your views in itself is offending to men. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t197487/?highlight=marry http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2312164&postcount=7 You want to be put on a pedestal. I doub't you have ever really cared about any of the men you have been with. I'd also be intrested in seeing those "Scientific studies" that have proven what you said. Believe me there's so many "studies" and what not that you can "prove" virtually anything.
Kamille Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I agree. I have never seen you as the type to use and take advantage of men but what I think some women don't get is that there are women who do use things like chasing and gentlemanly behavior in order to take a man for all he is worth and drop him when he is sucked dry. I wish women even if they don't agree would at least be more empathetic to why some men feel the need to be hyper vigilant in protecting ourselves from this. There's a thread on here where a male poster is complaining that he isn't compatible with a girl, yet he wants to keep dating her in the hope that she puts out. Clearly, he wants to use her for sex. If I was given the choice between being used for money or used for sex, I would definitely pick getting used for my money. The "chasing" mechanisms some women put in place are generally meant to distinguish between the men who are truly into you and the men who just want to get laid (and have no interest, or not respect for you). I wish men would understand why women might get cynical too. Neither men nor women have it easy in the dating scene. Finding the right person is hard.
Darren Taylor Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Likewise if a woman doesn't put in any effort, I'd assume she isn't intrested. Offcourse you women have the double standard that only the man has to put in all the effort while you sit back and do nothing. Hi waynebrady.
Darren Taylor Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 And to answer the thread, I refuse to chase. For every girl that wants to play hard to get and expect me to make the first move, there's another girl that will be assertive and make her intentions loud and clear.
fishtaco Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 There's a thread on here where a male poster is complaining that he isn't compatible with a girl, yet he wants to keep dating her in the hope that she puts out. Clearly, he wants to use her for sex. If I was given the choice between being used for money or used for sex, I would definitely pick getting used for my money. The "chasing" mechanisms some women put in place are generally meant to distinguish between the men who are truly into you and the men who just want to get laid (and have no interest, or not respect for you). I wish men would understand why women might get cynical too. Neither men nor women have it easy in the dating scene. Finding the right person is hard. Yes, I agree. Dating is hard for both genders. Anyone that says dating for men is more difficult or dating for women is more difficult, is wrong. You know who you are. They are difficult in different ways, that's all. Anyway. I don't really care what mechanisms women use to filter out bad men. It's their choice. I have enough successes under my belt to know I can get past that mechanism with some women, maybe because I'm a good enough person, maybe because I'm conniving enough to slip past their defenses. Not my concern, I don't need to have 100% success ratio, I just need enough. But, speaking from an effectiveness point of view, even in your post, you've demonstrated that making men chase accomplishes nothing (not saying you are a proponent of this "make men chase" methodology, just using your post to launch a general discussion). Some men are after relationships, some men are after sex only, like you said. Both could put a lot of effort into the chase, or both could just bail when they hit resistance. The fact that the man is willing to chase, doesn't mean he won't disappear after he gets sex. It depends on his game, his angle, and how much resources he has dedicated to this "game" his playing. A player whose only pastime is to sleep with women, will have more time to devote to women than I will. I have a real job, and real hobbies. I'm not going to run around and think women all day. Ideally men should be evaluated on an individual basis, and based on as much as information you can gather. One of the most effective means, I've found (against women users, but I'd imagine men are the same), is to straight out ask them. Immediately you will cut out men that don't lie, and men that can't lie well. Using some sort of unrelated trait as means to indirectly estimate a person, I feel, is ineffective. But if women need this false sense of security, by all means, knock yourselves out. I'm a cynic myself, I'm sure it's obvious not only in my posts in this thread, but all of my posts. This is not an issue of being cynical. It's an issue of applying the wrong solution. But I stick to my point earlier. Lucky for me, not all women subscribe to this. I have other things to do with my life, I'll be damned if I bend over backwards for every pretty face I see.
Kamille Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 One of the most effective means, I've found (against women users, but I'd imagine men are the same), is to straight out ask them. Immediately you will cut out men that don't lie, and men that can't lie well. Using some sort of unrelated trait as means to indirectly estimate a person, I feel, is ineffective. But if women need this false sense of security, by all means, knock yourselves out. I agree. My love life improved when I started asking guys, within the first few dates, what they were looking for in dating: casual fun or relationship? I was also upfront about the fact that I was enjoying dating and getting to know guys, but ultimately looking for a relationship. The technique was honest and did a better job at helping find what I was looking for than the "chase". And I was aware of the contradiction as I was typing out the post. Mostly, i wanted to point out that the reason women put selection mechanism in place is to try to find who are serious about a relationship with them.
ladyinlimbo Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 You don't have anything to be cynical or frustrated about when it comes to dating. You are a woman, you have it easy. Men are more justified in being cynical because we have it 100 times as harder as you do when it comes to dating. There, there.....(world's smallest violin playing a heartwrenching rendition of "Feelings" in the background as I read your response above), it's okay, you poor little man. So hard done by. God I'm getting all misty-eyed just thinking about the intense suffering you have endured. *sniff sniff* Cheese with the whine? ;-) Back on topic -- how is 'chasing' defined? The definition and interpretation of this word can and does vary. I actually don't like the word 'chase' - I prefer 'pursue.' I don't expect a man to roll out the red carpet or send me a dozen roses or hire a plan to write in the sky "will you go out with me?"....but I do expect him to make his interest KNOWN. Going to text me on a Friday night at 7pm to ask if I want to meet for a drink? Get lost. Your other plans obviously fell through and I'm your Plan B. You really interested? Pick up the damn phone and ask me out a couple of days before instead of as an afterthought. Say during a conversation or email that you'll call me in a couple of days to see what I'm doing? Follow through and do it. Be a man of your word. Don't give me this ****e that you've been so busy, bla bla bla. It takes 2 minutes to make a phone call. Likely takes longer to take a morning dump. And for this, you'll get the same respect and courtesy in return, 10-fold.
Bj099235 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I don't how anyone can say women don't have it easier when it comes to sex and dating. It doesn't make any sense to me. Guys have it easier when it comes to other things, though.
oaks Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Men are more justified in being cynical because we have it 100 times as harder as you do when it comes to dating. BS on both points.
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