tigressA Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I was hesitant to post this here, but I am in need of some feedback. Not long after I moved in, BF asked if I would marry him. I said no and he accepted it; we've been discussing it more. I know a big reason why he asked me. He has ambitions. He's more than a typical 9-5 guy. But he isn't a citizen. His visa is sponsored by the company he works for and they have him under a contract minimum of at least a year. The only other way he could get a green card is by working for them for another 8 years. Marrying me would be a much more expedient way to get permanent residency. This is where his perspective on marriage comes in. He doesn't think the relationship itself would change at all. To him it's like, we're in love, we're committed already, and with this we'll add greater mobility to our lives together. No big deal. I can understand that--I certainly don't want to stay where we're at for another 8 years, and always have to go where he's approved to go if I want to be with him. If he gets permanent residency we can have much more freedom when it comes to charting our life path together. I can make/contribute to major life decisions for us. On the other hand, there's my perspective. To me, marriage is a huge commitment--the biggest one you will make in your life besides parenthood. There's a loss of that individual freedom. I'm not insecure like others can be, needing that piece of paper to be secure in the knowledge that my partner is committed with a capital "C". I don't really want that piece of paper because to me it signifies duty instead of desire. I want to have a relationship where both people are in it because they want to be, not also/just because they're legally obligated to and ending it would require extensive legal means instead of just saying "Bye" and letting the door close behind you. The other day he told me he got an offer in California. Of course, he can't take it because he's under contract until early next year, but he asked me: "If I went, would you come with me?" I hesitated for a good 30 seconds before I said I would. I feel like our relationship has always been all or nothing because of his position. If I were to choose not to accompany him wherever he had to go next, it's like there's no point in us being committed to each other at all. I know that he loves me and that he wouldn't want to do this with anyone else but me. I feel like he's actually more "in it" than I am--he sees the bright side, I see the "If this fails, there's no easy way out" side. I'm not sure if he's incredibly naive or if I'm way too cynical. Thoughts?
BiscuitXOXO Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I think the real issue is Do I commit? You are both right. With relationships, there is never a guarantee of non-failure. Life is always going awry. You know he is committed to you. But are you committed to him? I don't mean this to say you aren't. But since you say you aren't as "in it" as he is, you have to ask yourself...why not? You think, "If this fails, there's no easy way out." That is 100% true. Is taking the relationship to the next level worth the risk?
denise_xo Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I'm in a marriage which requires a bit of an 'all or nothing' attitude at times, because we are from different countries and continents and also have various visa struggles like the ones you mention. Those kind of relationships sometimes mean that you have to deal with logistical issues that you wouldn't have to think about if you'd both have the same passport. You might also experience residues of that after he gets his green card (whenever that turns out to be), so I think that is more a strategic decision of what kind of relationship you want to be in and whether you're willing to deal with these kind of issues in a longer term perspective. Talk to others who have taken that road if you can. On the marriage issue, I definitely vote WAIT. It doesn't have to be now or in eight years, if you're still together and happy in two years' time, consider it again. I married too fast (knowingly took that risk for very specific reasons) and would not encourage anyone to do the same. It might not change the relationship much as long as the two of you are good together, but it definitely will if you start having problems and from what I can remember you guys haven't been together that long. In short, if you're balancing the question of some time long distance/ moving temporarily and getting married, then opt for the former until your relationship has lasted a bit longer.
Author tigressA Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 Do I feel taking our relationship to that level is worth the risk? He thinks it is, at least. His perspective comes off as rather naive, to me. I'm not sure if he really has THAT MUCH faith in our relationship, or if he doesn't take the commitment of marriage seriously. I love him...but I think I may love my sense of individual freedom a bit more at this point in life. I have a desire to be with only my boyfriend. I feel like marriage might turn that desire into an obligation and everything would just...die. And dissolving a failed marriage isn't nearly as easy as just walking out the door. I wonder if me thinking of how easy/difficult it would be to walk away means I'm really not committed. We never did talk about possibly going long-distance if it came down to that. I'll bring it up to him and see what he thinks about it. At any rate, we've still got roughly another year to go before absolutely having to make any tough decisions.
Sanman Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) I feel for you Tigress, I have dated an Indian woman and ran up against a similar issue with her. To her, she was ready to be seriously committed after a few months and felt that my not feeling the same way was a sign of being not committed. To me, marriage is a serious commitment and only something to consider when I know I am happy in the relationship long-term and that us staying together is a foregone conclusion. As Denise said, it does not have to be now or in 8 years. if you are not ready yet wait till you get to the 2 year mark. How long have you two been together again? I feel as if it has not been that long. I feel as if the Indian perspective on marriage is different. In a culture of arranged or semi-arranged marriages, even today it is not that uncommon to marry someone after spending less than a year with them. It is more of a brain thing than a heart thing, you seem like a good partner so may as well get married. It is different from the way we do things here. Edited May 13, 2011 by Sanman
Ms. Joolie Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 It's good you have another year for things to play out, no need to rush the big decisions this soon. You can just enjoy what you have for now and take the next best steps for you as you see them. If the marriage issue is a big one for him in the next year, and you just aren't wanting that, this could just be a compatibility issue going against you two. Take it easy on yourself and just see where this goes for you. Your commitment with each other right now is in living together exactly as you are, not marriage. No need in beating yourself up over an 'all or nothing' argument in your head. If marriage is all, and not being in a relationship is nothing, living together is still something. If this is truly what works for you and your life right now, just relax and enjoy!
Star Gazer Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 TA, I know several couples who maintain their individual freedoms while still being committed to their marriage. It doesn't sound to me like you'd lose any freedom other than the freedom to move around and live wherever you want, and that's because of his job. What else do you think you'd be losing or giving up by marrying him? In what ways do you think your relationship would fundamentally change?
utterer of lies Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Thoughts? As long as the relationship is good, the marriage thing wouldn't change anything for the worse, and if the relationship fails, the marriage will benefit you more than him. And if you marry, a big legal problem just goes away, and great career opportunities open up for him. I think you're just scared.
denise_xo Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 As long as the relationship is good, the marriage thing wouldn't change anything for the worse, and if the relationship fails, the marriage will benefit you more than him. And if you marry, a big legal problem just goes away, and great career opportunities open up for him. I think you're just scared. I really disagree with this bit. If I divorce my H, he will be thrown out of the country. That's a similar situation to the one that TigressA would be in. It would put a HUGE strain on an already very difficult situation should they ever end up in a situation of potential divorce.
Author tigressA Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) TA, I know several couples who maintain their individual freedoms while still being committed to their marriage. It doesn't sound to me like you'd lose any freedom other than the freedom to move around and live wherever you want, and that's because of his job. What else do you think you'd be losing or giving up by marrying him? In what ways do you think your relationship would fundamentally change? Actually, that freedom would be gained through marriage. Neither of us would be tied to a set number of destinations/circumstances because of his lack of permanent residency. By choosing to be with him now, unmarried, I am giving that up. I actually talked to a couple of friends the other day about this--not my particular issue, but marriage in general. One has been married for over 3 years, been with his wife a total of almost 9 years; the other is single, female, no romantic attachments. She sees marriage as just a piece of paper and he sees it very differently. He said, "A lot changes when you get married. There's all the good stuff, that goes without saying. But when it comes to the not-so-good stuff, the stuff that you just accept/tolerate, something changes psychologically. When you're not married and dealing with the bad, you stick around because it's what you want to do, and you realize that you ultimately DON'T HAVE TO. You can always just walk away if you want to, and that's the end of it. When you're married, it's never that simple. You think, 'I really have to deal with this forever, don't I?' It's not just the desire to do it out of love--there's also the legal obligation, the sense of duty, that changes how you think." That really hit the nail on the head for me. It was like he gave voice to everything I was thinking but couldn't find the right words to say. Also, we've only been together for about 4 months. Waaaaay too soon to get married. I'd want to wait until a couple years have passed at least, like Denise said. Edited May 13, 2011 by tigressA
Author tigressA Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 I feel for you Tigress, I have dated an Indian woman and ran up against a similar issue with her. To her, she was ready to be seriously committed after a few months and felt that my not feeling the same way was a sign of being not committed. To me, marriage is a serious commitment and only something to consider when I know I am happy in the relationship long-term and that us staying together is a foregone conclusion. As Denise said, it does not have to be now or in 8 years. if you are not ready yet wait till you get to the 2 year mark. How long have you two been together again? I feel as if it has not been that long. I feel as if the Indian perspective on marriage is different. In a culture of arranged or semi-arranged marriages, even today it is not that uncommon to marry someone after spending less than a year with them. It is more of a brain thing than a heart thing, you seem like a good partner so may as well get married. It is different from the way we do things here. EXACTLY. This is exactly how it is with him. For him it is just like what I put in my original post--we have a great relationship, we love each other, circumstances will be easier if we get married, so let's just get married! I don't feel that way. I need more time. I love him more than I've loved anyone in my life but I need more time.
Sanman Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 EXACTLY. This is exactly how it is with him. For him it is just like what I put in my original post--we have a great relationship, we love each other, circumstances will be easier if we get married, so let's just get married! I don't feel that way. I need more time. I love him more than I've loved anyone in my life but I need more time. It is a tough spot to be in. The only thing I can say is that you need to be true to yourself because if you feel forced into a more serious relationship than you are ready for you may end up resenting him and the relationship. Try and talk with him about these differences if you can since it isn't culturally normal to be married after a few months here. Hopefully he will understand and you guys can work it out. I would love to give you some better advice, but in my case it worked out so well I am single! oh well, it was all for the best in my case.
Ruby Slippers Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I wouldn't do it. From everything I know of you on here, it seems WAY too soon for you to marry anyone. You're so young. Enjoy your freedom and being in an unfettered, no-contract relationship.
johan Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 If you want to trap him into marriage, just go off of birth control.
Confusedalways Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 The other day he told me he got an offer in California. Of course, he can't take it because he's under contract until early next year, but he asked me: "If I went, would you come with me?" I hesitated for a good 30 seconds before I said I would. I feel like our relationship has always been all or nothing because of his position. If I were to choose not to accompany him wherever he had to go next, it's like there's no point in us being committed to each other at all. I can kind of relate- except I am the person that would be moving us all around. I have one more year of grad school left and I already know that any position I will take will very likely result in moving- most likely far away. Of course, I would want my boyfriend to come with me, but I also would understand if he wanted to stay in the area, as this is where all his friends and family (as well are mine) are located. I would expect him to eventually join me within a year. That being said- there is definitely a point to you being committed even if you didn't want to go with him, at least right away. Obviously you would need some kind of end game in sight, but it would necessarily mean you had to box everything up and leave at the drop of a hat. Then again, IIRC you live together and rely on him for rent, etc, so maybe you would have to go at the drop of a hat? From your post I'm not sure what your actual thoughts are- are you actually considering marrying him- it doesn't seem like you really are. This has been a fast paced relationship from the beginning- I know that you are aware that it's too soon to think about marriage, so what's really on your mind? That you have to sacrifice flexibility to be in this relationship or..?
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I have a friend, who's in a committed relationship, and they are just boyfriend/girlfriend. And both are comfortable with that; neither of them wants more. However, they both love each other very much, and lean on each other for support. You don't have to declare marriage for love to work. Sure, it's a legal piece of paper, but that's all it is. Marriage was invented by the church as a way to control people; do you think cavemen and cavewomen "married" each other? Of course not! And there are enough flawed marriages out there, that if you can get it to work (as simply a relationship and not a marriage), then more power to you. Tigeress, I wish the best for you.
Cee Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Tigressa, don't get married like this. I eloped with a guy I was dating 4 months. I will spare you the gory details, but that was the biggest mistake of my life. Living together while dating for 4 months is confusing things. He is already treating you like a wife now. I feel like this is a stressful and confusing situation. This is what I suggest. You move into a separate apartment and get engaged. And then move in together when you marry. I know that this sounds so old fashioned, but it seems most appropriate. I think it's important to be practical. You need your own independent space while you negotiate your future with your boyfriend. I don't know if you can afford an apartment, but it seems like the best compromise I can think of. You get a chance to grow as a couple and you end up married.
Author tigressA Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 I can kind of relate- except I am the person that would be moving us all around. I have one more year of grad school left and I already know that any position I will take will very likely result in moving- most likely far away. Of course, I would want my boyfriend to come with me, but I also would understand if he wanted to stay in the area, as this is where all his friends and family (as well are mine) are located. I would expect him to eventually join me within a year. That being said- there is definitely a point to you being committed even if you didn't want to go with him, at least right away. Obviously you would need some kind of end game in sight, but it would necessarily mean you had to box everything up and leave at the drop of a hat. Then again, IIRC you live together and rely on him for rent, etc, so maybe you would have to go at the drop of a hat? From your post I'm not sure what your actual thoughts are- are you actually considering marrying him- it doesn't seem like you really are. This has been a fast paced relationship from the beginning- I know that you are aware that it's too soon to think about marriage, so what's really on your mind? That you have to sacrifice flexibility to be in this relationship or..? No, I'm not considering marrying him. It's way too soon for that. Yeah, I guess I am wondering about the sacrifice of flexibility to be in this relationship. It's funny because being married would actually give that back to me while being in this relationship. By not eventually getting married, we run the risk of having to go seriously long-distance in the future, and likely having to sacrifice some of my own personal career aspirations because everything would depend solely on his status. As far as leaving friends/family, that's not too important to me. I don't have a social network that I can interact with face-to-face without major advance planning because we're all over the map, and I haven't seen my family in years despite us all living in the same state--it's not negative dysfunction, we're all just...really independent, I guess. Thanks for the support, Leaning . Cee, that was actually where my mind was--getting my own place, etc. I wanted to, but I can't afford it at all right now. I had to leave my new job because I had literally become allergic to it, so I'm on the hunt for another one. At the very least, I have made the decision to not marry him anytime soon. I figure if we're still going strong in a couple years we can revisit it.
Cee Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I am grateful for your posts, Tigressa. You are sensible and grounded in your own point of view, but also considerate to your boyfriend's concerns and wishes. I think you are on a good path in your decisions. I don't mean to gush, but I appreciate you a lot as a poster. And wanted to tell you that.
welikeincrowds Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I don't really want that piece of paper because to me it signifies duty instead of desire. Exactly, very well put. Marriage is a duty, and that's it. Desire is barely relevant, if at all. Marriage is a contract with the public as much as it is with your partner. You do it because you want to be married -- you want to start a family, you want to participate in a community, you want to get tax benefits -- and not because you are in love. Feeling comes and goes but marriage is a cerebral commitment sealed with ink and paper and filed by the government. After all, that is the reason he'd want to get married, right? To become an American citizen? You're not being cynical, in fact I don't get a sense of judgment from your post. You're being dead-on accurate.
Star Gazer Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Exactly, very well put. Marriage is a duty, and that's it. Desire is barely relevant, if at all. Marriage is a contract with the public as much as it is with your partner. You do it because you want to be married -- you want to start a family, you want to participate in a community, you want to get tax benefits -- and not because you are in love. Feeling comes and goes but marriage is a cerebral commitment sealed with ink and paper and filed by the government. After all, that is the reason he'd want to get married, right? To become an American citizen? You're not being cynical, in fact I don't get a sense of judgment from your post. You're being dead-on accurate. Great way to take the romance out of it!
welikeincrowds Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Great way to take the romance out of it! Oh don't even worry, you know I'm taking my girl to Tiffany's.
Author tigressA Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 I am grateful for your posts, Tigressa. You are sensible and grounded in your own point of view, but also considerate to your boyfriend's concerns and wishes. I think you are on a good path in your decisions. I don't mean to gush, but I appreciate you a lot as a poster. And wanted to tell you that. Thank you, Cee :love:. I really appreciate you, too. I have to admit that the sappy romantic in me was about to go into overdrive when he asked. I know that marriage is solely for practical reasons--it certainly is absolutely nothing but a contract, always has been, always will be. Yet, I do really appreciate the knowledge that he wants to be with me for life, whether or not we ever get married. It does make me feel really good about where things are going. Welike, he wouldn't become a citizen if we got married--he would just be what's called a 'permanent resident', which is different. As a permanent resident you're enabled to work/pay taxes anywhere in the U.S., but you can't vote in elections or work for the U.S. government. There are also differences between the two if you're convicted of a crime--a permanent resident will serve time sentenced but also may be deported after. I know he doesn't care to become a citizen.
alphamale Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 run don't walk, this guy is looking for a green card. i've seen it a hundred times in the indian/asian community
snug.bunny Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Wow what a stickywicky! That's an enormous amount of pressure to introduce into the relationship. People get married for all sorts of reasons, but you have to feel comfortable and confident, that marriage at this stage, is what you both desire without the "citizenship" aspect taking center ring.
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