Author JLB Posted May 12, 2011 Author Posted May 12, 2011 However, if you have to choose "success" and "family first", which way will *YOU* go? From my observations, not every woman will go with "family first". For me, it would be family first, hands down. In fact I am giving up part of my success in the next 4 mos. (Selling my business and demoting myself somewhat), so that I can be with my kids more often and not having to work so much.
Snowflower Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Now I feel like a fool for who I was with him last week. Nice, accommodating, non-confrontational. I should never have answered my door. Well I think it's a good thing that I know where his head still is (no pun intended ...so it keeps my defenses up and keeps me moving forward. I think I will go out tonight.... Hey, don't feel like a fool for hoping that somehow things will be different and that you will get your old husband back. The heart is a slow learner. Few BS's handle the post d-day situation perfectly and we all do (or did) the best we could at the time when we were getting a crash course in marital infidelity. There is nothing wrong with being gracious and taking the high road in all this...especially if that tends to be your personality. Just because you are polite to him doesn't mean you have to answer his calls or requests to go to dinner. You can politely refuse and leave it at that. Just don't communicate with him beyond what is necessary. You're doing great!
carrie999 Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Baroness! Thanks for replying. I completely agree with what you have just said. It's exactly the way I feel! And it's so funny how he changes when I act like I don't care. And it's not really an act anymore. I really am exhausted from all this, and most of the time I really don't care. Do what you must!! I also think that in my situation he is/was trying to escape from reality and to prove to me that "no one is gonna tell me what I can and can't do." At what point though, did you know he was serious about reconciliation? My WS is not good at talking/communication (if he was I don't think we would even be going down this road). I don't see him sitting me down telling me that he wants to talk about US or telling me the details when/if he decides it's over with them. I don't even see begging in his future. It may only be in actions that I see it. Maybe spending more time at home, asking me to come around more...his coming around to see me. I know this man all too well, and the above is just not his character. Is that really good enough for you? If he's not good at communicating and doesn't work hard on it, how can you have a solid relationship, especially given that he already destroyed your trust? I agree that actions are far more important than words, but communication is the foundation of a healthy relationship. Even if his actions demonstrate his fidelity (he ends it with her, shows you love and attention, etc.) how can you ever be sure this won't happen again, even if it's twenty years from now? Especially given that your first attempt at reconciliation didn't work, I wouldn't get too excited about this turnaround until he ends it with her and works very hard at communicating with you. I'm glad that you're doing the 180 and focusing on YOU. The 180 (to me) means not just changing your behavior with the goal of getting his attention back, but really changing yourself so that you are truly happy without him. And it sounds like you are, but make sure it's about you and not some hope you're clinging to with him. That needs to be your only focus until he does his own 180 and changes a LOT about himself and how he treats you and interacts with you. I wish you the best of luck. Be careful.
carrie999 Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Thanks Alexandria for your reply. Oh yes, I have done the Plan A's and Plan B's a few times, only to fail (my own fault)...I have even typed up the Plan B letter and sent it off to him. I think for me personally I had to find the strength in myself before I really could do a successful Plan B on him. I am almost positive I am at that point where I can do a successful Plan B and be happy with that and not fail this time. I just don't know how to react to him when he shows up in these random surprise visits. He isn't going to listen to me when I say, don't contact me. So at that point when he shows up somewhere I am going to have to talk to him and decide whether I want to stay calm and collected and tell him, "we aren't doing this anymore, please leave" or get angry with him. I doubt I would get angry, it's just my personality. I am a very laid back person. Any tips on stopping the wayward in his tracks when stalking? If this was a healthy marriage, I'd say that it's good that your laid-back nature offsets his strong personality. But in this case, it sounds like he's controlling, and is exploiting your laid-back nature. He knows you'll play along, so he can essentially keep playing you until (and if) he really makes a decision. Based upon your description, it sounds like his OW is not so different from you, if only in that sense.
YellowShark Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) I appreciate all of your thoughts. Well I have set myself up for disappointment yet again. I keep telling myself to stop being so accommodating. I "thought" we had a pretty good week last week and "thought" the fog might be lifting. It's not..... Just checked his email (thank you keylogger) and he has a flight booked to go see OW tonight and be with her on her birthday, which must be today. She is staying in Vegas at her 2nd home. He is flying in tonight ...will arrive about 6:30pm and spending the night with her, then leaving at 7am tomorrow morning to fly back to LA. I'm surprised he is leaving the next day though and so early. He will probably show up here on Friday then since she is out of town. Unreal!! 'nuff said. He's a cake eater, his actions speak louder than words, and now you know you are truly a plan "B" and his ego stroke. It's up to you now to stop being an emotion pillow for him and let him go off into the sunset with his OW. You deserve better. Good luck. Edited May 13, 2011 by YellowShark
PinkInTheLimo Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I do want the stalking to stop...It would be one thing if it came with "wanting to work on us" and "it's over with OW and I have proof." But I think it's more his wanting to get his "fix" of me. I don't mind his asking me to dinner with the kids or going to our kids games together..because I can always decline the invite.....but showing up unannounced is not cool.. This is a selfish man and all he cares about is possessing you and controlling you. He feels that you are slipping away, that he no longer has you and that drives him crazy. He can no longer control you. This is not about love. Him showing up unannounced is stalking and you have to tell him that you don't want this. Now see how he will react to that, to you actually standing up to him. Could get nasty I tell you. You are trying to get him back. But WHY? He sounds like a jerk, like someone who will never give you real love. So why do you want him back? I think you are better off without him.
nyrias Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 For me, it would be family first, hands down. In fact I am giving up part of my success in the next 4 mos. (Selling my business and demoting myself somewhat), so that I can be with my kids more often and not having to work so much. Good for you. How many do you think are like you? Most men I know put their career first. Are you going to reject all potential spouse who is strongly career minded?
Author JLB Posted May 19, 2011 Author Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) I just question every move he makes...thinking it is a fog breakthrough. This past weekend, he again showed up on a Friday night (whereas in the past he said that he would not be spending Friday nights with the kids, instead with OW)...so this was weekend #2 where he bailed on OW and came to stay with the kids. We did not have any contact at all Friday. I left the house before he got here...and went to my apartment. Saturday morning we had no contact until he made contact by showing up at my work wanting to know if I wanted to join him and the kids to dinner that evening. I ended up going (because I still want to see what his intentions are, and because part of me feels like if I don't he will eventually put OW in my place). While home for the weekend, he mowed the lawn, cleaned the house, did laundry, gave dogs a bath and basically acted as if he was happy and "back home". When he is around me, he keeps talking about re-modeling the kitchen and other things he would like to do with the house. For the life of me, I can't figure out why he would talk about things like that if he has no intention of leaving OW. He even spoke about taking a vacation to Hawaii with him and I and the kids in December. I still feel like he bailed on OW even on her birthday weekend this past week. He only stayed with her 12 hours and then flew home. I don't ask how it's going...so I have no idea if they are crumbling or not. It's funny though, once he goes back to LA for the week...then he blows me off completely again...well except for Monday...he texted me "what's this I hear about you playing softball?" Apparently one of my kids told him that I joined a team and played on Sunday night...we chatted via text for a few minutes about it and then said goodnight...Haven't heard from him since. What my plans are: I have a couple of more months where I need to keep the majority of my stuff in the house. After August I am either selling my business or closing it and moving myself to a different situation business wise that will allow me to make more money. At that time, I am going to get a storage unit and move the REST of my stuff and kids stuff, toys, x-mas decorations, garage crap, dishes, bedding, furniture, etc...into storage and move ENTIRELY into my apartment. I pretty much am going to clean out the entire house...he won't see that part coming. Kids are coming with...they don't know that either...but they won't have a choice. I'm really not angry about things, just emotionally exhausted and not willing to keep up this back and forth stuff any longer. I have had a plan all along, really just waiting for the right time and wanting to be able to pack up my things and move them in the way I want them moved instead of throwing stuff wherever I can and getting the hell out of here. So what does a real fog breakthrough look like?? Edited May 19, 2011 by JLB
YellowShark Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 A real fog breakthrough is when they actually leave the OW for good, and start to move mountains to rebuild what they tore down. It's not a bunch of "promises," and "gosh, wouldnt it be nice" statements.... but actual actions.
nyrias Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 I just question every move he makes...thinking it is a fog breakthrough. This past weekend, he again showed up on a Friday night (whereas in the past he said that he would not be spending Friday nights with the kids, instead with OW)...so this was weekend #2 where he bailed on OW and came to stay with the kids. We did not have any contact at all Friday. I left the house before he got here...and went to my apartment. Saturday morning we had no contact until he made contact by showing up at my work wanting to know if I wanted to join him and the kids to dinner that evening. I ended up going (because I still want to see what his intentions are, and because part of me feels like if I don't he will eventually put OW in my place). While home for the weekend, he mowed the lawn, cleaned the house, did laundry, gave dogs a bath and basically acted as if he was happy and "back home". When he is around me, he keeps talking about re-modeling the kitchen and other things he would like to do with the house. For the life of me, I can't figure out why he would talk about things like that if he has no intention of leaving OW. He even spoke about taking a vacation to Hawaii with him and I and the kids in December. I still feel like he bailed on OW even on her birthday weekend this past week. He only stayed with her 12 hours and then flew home. I don't ask how it's going...so I have no idea if they are crumbling or not. It's funny though, once he goes back to LA for the week...then he blows me off completely again...well except for Monday...he texted me "what's this I hear about you playing softball?" Apparently one of my kids told him that I joined a team and played on Sunday night...we chatted via text for a few minutes about it and then said goodnight...Haven't heard from him since. What my plans are: I have a couple of more months where I need to keep the majority of my stuff in the house. After August I am either selling my business or closing it and moving myself to a different situation business wise that will allow me to make more money. At that time, I am going to get a storage unit and move the REST of my stuff and kids stuff, toys, x-mas decorations, garage crap, dishes, bedding, furniture, etc...into storage and move ENTIRELY into my apartment. I pretty much am going to clean out the entire house...he won't see that part coming. Kids are coming with...they don't know that either...but they won't have a choice. I'm really not angry about things, just emotionally exhausted and not willing to keep up this back and forth stuff any longer. I have had a plan all along, really just waiting for the right time and wanting to be able to pack up my things and move them in the way I want them moved instead of throwing stuff wherever I can and getting the hell out of here. So what does a real fog breakthrough look like?? Or may be you are reading too much into it. May be he is just trying to be civil. OTOH, your plan is sound. Just move on. There is no point in playing the guessing game.
2sunny Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 the fog isn't lifting... he's just getting better at playing on both sides of the fence. YOU are allowing him to continue playing on your play ground. meanwhile - when he leaves - he goes to play on another woman's play ground... and never thinks about you while he's playing over there. he's selfish. it serves him well that you make no demands for him to decide which play ground he intends to play on. make that choice for him. decide and move forward. he's using you to make himself feel better... when he interacts it's to relieve himself of the guilt he feels. so take that role away by not allowing him to play "pretty house" when he doesn't intend to be with you. IF he wanted YOU - he wouldn't also have her...
Author JLB Posted May 19, 2011 Author Posted May 19, 2011 Or may be you are reading too much into it. May be he is just trying to be civil. OTOH, your plan is sound. Just move on. There is no point in playing the guessing game. Well I have thought about that part, being civil....but when he shows up in random places that I am at, without kids....and for really no reason...I don't think it's just about being civil. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking at these random appearances as if he is moving mountains....for me it just shows that he hasn't let go of me. If you could have seen his face the day he "thought" he was going to catch me having breakfast with another man and the adrenalin rush that he couldn't conceal...that isn't about trying to be my friend. There really is no reason for the two of us to be in contact because are kids are older and pretty much self sufficient..yet he is the one who always breaks NC first when we have gone days without talking. To me, civil would be "only" talking about the kids or finances. Yet he wants to tell me about his week, talk about fixing up the house, taking me to lunch. On the other hand, you are right though..this man has done NOTHING in the way of showing me that he is done with the OW. Awhile back he had told me that we needed to be friends first if we were ever going to be able to get back together. Maybe this is his idea of us being friends. At any rate...I am sitting here looking at all the things that need to be boxed up and moved out of here...it's crazy...but needs to be done.
2sunny Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 JLB;3409355]for me it just shows that he hasn't let go of me. If you could have seen his face the day he "thought" he was going to catch me having breakfast with another man and the adrenalin rush that he couldn't conceal...that isn't about trying to be my friend. he does this - because you ALLOW it. my "friends" don't try to catch me doing things in a negative light... they lift me up and help me do things better than i "think" i can do. There really is no reason for the two of us to be in contact because are kids are older and pretty much self sufficient.. then stop allowing him the contact... yet he is the one who always breaks NC first when we have gone days without talking. and YOU have choices. i choose not to respond... then he goes away. YOU can control this by NOT responding. To me, civil would be "only" talking about the kids or finances. Yet he wants to tell me about his week, talk about fixing up the house, taking me to lunch. On the other hand, you are right though..this man has done NOTHING in the way of showing me that he is done with the OW. stop responding - then you won't have to hear about all his BS that is just words and NO ACTION. Awhile back he had told me that we needed to be friends first if we were ever going to be able to get back together. Maybe this is his idea of us being friends. nope. this is him having you as his backup gal/his doormat... in case it doesn't work out with the OW. again, stop allowing it. see a pattern here? At any rate...I am sitting here looking at all the things that need to be boxed up and moved out of here...it's crazy...but needs to be done. then DO IT! donate it all to people who can make use of it. it's freeing when we don't hang on to stuff we no longer use everyday. start today... do one box at a time... each day. find people who need your stuff - it will make others happy.
nyrias Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 Well I have thought about that part, being civil....but when he shows up in random places that I am at, without kids....and for really no reason...I don't think it's just about being civil. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking at these random appearances as if he is moving mountains....for me it just shows that he hasn't let go of me. If you could have seen his face the day he "thought" he was going to catch me having breakfast with another man and the adrenalin rush that he couldn't conceal...that isn't about trying to be my friend. There really is no reason for the two of us to be in contact because are kids are older and pretty much self sufficient..yet he is the one who always breaks NC first when we have gone days without talking. To me, civil would be "only" talking about the kids or finances. Yet he wants to tell me about his week, talk about fixing up the house, taking me to lunch. On the other hand, you are right though..this man has done NOTHING in the way of showing me that he is done with the OW. Awhile back he had told me that we needed to be friends first if we were ever going to be able to get back together. Maybe this is his idea of us being friends. At any rate...I am sitting here looking at all the things that need to be boxed up and moved out of here...it's crazy...but needs to be done. One more piece of advice (and my standard disclaimer that i am just a random forum poster to take it with a grain of salt). Since you are moving on, it is probably NOT constructive to spend your time thinking/guessing about his motives. I would suggest you should focus on something else .. anything. Find a forum and talk about your hobbies. Call up your friends and talk about your kids. I know it is hard, but there is no point in dwelling on why he does A or B.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 While home for the weekend, he mowed the lawn, cleaned the house, did laundry, gave dogs a bath and basically acted as if he was happy and "back home". When he is around me, he keeps talking about re-modeling the kitchen and other things he would like to do with the house. For the life of me, I can't figure out why he would talk about things like that if he has no intention of leaving OW. He even spoke about taking a vacation to Hawaii with him and I and the kids in December. This future planning is a little fantasy that MM like to play out with whomever they are stringing along at the moment. I know that you are looking for any positive sign and I completely get that. He does too, which is why he's tossing the bait and implying a future without actually saying it. He's emotionally manipulating you. I think your plan sounds spot on and i wish you luck. Don't let yourself get so emotionally run down that you let down your defenses, you're gonna need them.
Kristi can't sleep Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Hi JLB, (omg, just finished writing this and realized how insanely long it is. Too tired to figure out what to delete, lol, but if you can't muddle through it, my point (?) is in the last 2 paragraphs ) I just read your whole thread - first, wow, I'm so sorry you're in this situation. Second: Unreal!! This man has NEVER done this for me. He has missed many of my birthdays. My birthdays have never been important to him. In fact on my birthday (before D-day), he made up some story about running an errand and went to go be with her. I just don't get it. Now I feel like a fool for who I was with him last week. Nice, accommodating, non-confrontational. I should never have answered my door. Well I think it's a good thing that I know where his head still is (no pun intended ...so it keeps my defenses up and keeps me moving forward. I think I will go out tonight.... ...you are NO fool. I know what the posters mean when they say not to focus on him, not to try to read meaning into what he says or does, but that can be extremely difficult if not impossible if, in your heart of hearts, you want him back. That's the only point I'm not 100% on - do you want him back? Obviously the affair can't be undone and I remember you wrote that you already went through one false reconciliation - have you ever really thought about what things might be like if he did suddenly dump the OW and came home? Even if he does make an effort: goes to MC, starts making family more of a priority, tries to earn back your trust, realistically, would you be happy do you think? I only ask because sometimes, what we *think* we want is only true hypothetically... A very close friend of mine, "Theresa" was in a strikingly similar situation, except she clearly and truly knew that she wanted him back - couldnt kid herself otherwise, even when he was absolutely cruel (showing up with the OW to the kids sports when she had them & obviously would be there) After a long while, she managed to act as if she was moving on (with a lot of prodding from me) and it was brutally hard on her. She stopped the drive-by's and leaving him sobbing VM. She stopped making excuses to see him. And slowly, much like your H, he started coming around more. I think it was out of shock that she was doing something he thought she wasn't capable of (existing without him), and that changed things. When he left, I believe he was under the impression that if it didn't work out with the OW (when it stopped being 'fun') he could always come home and pick up where he left off. She stuck to her guns, despite being crushed emotionally and thinking about him every waking moment (I can't tell you how many nights she slept at my house so she wouldn't have to be alone, tortured with imagining what he was doing), and behaved very much like you are; stayed cordial, somewhat accommodating (accepted invitations to hang around when he had the kids on rare occasions, etc.) and tried to do things for herself (she was only half there when we went out or if she did something else - her heart wasn't in anything but obsessing). But she kept it up. ...and it worked. He dumped the OW and begged to come home (im obviously skipping a lot but that was the end result). I think it was a combination of knowing he really could lose her, along with the newness of the OW wearing off as reality started rearing it's ugly head (it's easy to fake having no expectations, but most OW's have plenty of them. They just don't appear until they think they "have" him). And I know he truly did end the affair and felt he'd made the biggest mistake of his life because he's my cousin. So, it was sort of bliss for her. For about 2 months or so. Then I started getting calls from her all hours of the night again. She was bringing up what he did to her every time the slightest problem came up (beating him over the head with it, basically, which was totally unlike her, then calling me hysterical trying to understand why she couldn't stop doing it). It was addressed in MC where she agreed to work on limiting herself from bringing up the affair constantly. He, meanwhile, did what every woman hopes for - everything humanly possible to make it up to her. He even installed a webcam on his work PC - completely his OWN idea, lol - so that anytime he was at work, she could log on and see him. HE installed key loggers on home and work PC's for her, and a BB tracker. His thought was that if she could access him, his email, his phone, etc., 24/7, it would ease her mind, he'd earn her forgiveness, and they could finally go back to the relationship they had before the affair. I know this is a book already so I'll cut to the chase. She eventually came to the conclusion that she didn't want to forgive him. From the moment she found out about the OW, through the 1 1/2 years of torture when he left, wanting him to come back to her had been her obsession. ...and I mean obsession. But once that happened and they got back to the day-to-day routine of marriage, she realized that all that time she'd been chasing a fantasy - that by getting him back, she would have the life she had before. It never entered her mind that the A had destroyed that, and if she got him back, she would have to not only forgive him, but learn to accept a marriage that would never be what it was (not to imply worse, some people even say better in rare cases - but it's always different). To make a loooong story a few sentences shorter, after a year of battling with herself, she began to work and focus on HERSELF for REAL. She didnt check or care about his keyloggers and webcam. She didnt wait for him to call at lunch; if she was busy or had plans, she turned her cell off. She went back to work, started working out, made more friends (thank God, lol. I love her, but she was killing me!). I did tell her at that point that I knew "Frank" was being faithful and that I believed he never stopped loving her, just made a HUGE mid-life crisis mistake. I also told her I didn't think he'd stray again. For me to say those things after what he did to her speaks more than you could know about the degree of *ss kissing he was doing. And of course, being related, I had the low-down on everything he was doing/saying. I only told her this because I assumed she was trying to find her own footing because she was afraid it would happen again. She told me that she believed that too. It just didn't matter. She also believed it was a mid-life crisis that caused it - and told me that that almost made it worse: "Kristy, he did that to me, he crushed my heart, because he felt like he deserved to feel young and have some fun. And now? I think he always intended to come home - eventually. When he was done. He thought I'd just keep begging, just keep waiting, and whenever he felt like it, he could waltz back in and I'd kiss the ground he walks on because he did me a favor and came back. And id 'get over it'. He undid 20 years and knowingly hurt me - bevause he knew me and knew he could. Kristy, I never saw Frank as selfish, I always thought he was just 'old-fashioned' the way he was with me. But now I see it so clearly. I would've stayed with that man through anything, and he thought of me as so inconsequential that he could destroy me. For... nothing. I don't care if he's sorry and I don't care if he stays faithful. Something went when all this happened that isn't coming back whether I want it to or not" And just under 2yrs after he came back, she filed for divorce. Sorry this was so long, but you sound so honest and nice & your whole post sounded exactly like Theresa, that I wanted to bring this up as a different reason for focusing on yourself instead of him; affairs are a shock to your emotions, they're devastating. I don't think you can know for sure how you feel about him OR the affair until you can gather yourself together, be able to accept it, and as corny and clichè as it sounds, find yourself. I think you're a really strong person & I give you a ton of credit. If he wakes the hell up and sees what he lost while or because you're treating yourself well and finding your own, separate life, all the better - it just means HE'LL be there when YOU decide whether you truly want HIM back. Every situation is different, and a lot of people can make a marriage work after an affair, so please don't take this to mean you're any less of a person if you want to get your husband back and work things out - if anything, that route is every bit as tough and takes a lot of self-confidence and strength. I just wanted you to know that this will pass, and focusing on YOU can only help, regardless of the goal you have in mind (or in your heart) Take care, hang in there, and GOOD LUCK!
IfWishesWereHorses Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 She told me that she believed that too. It just didn't matter. She also believed it was a mid-life crisis that caused it - and told me that that almost made it worse: "Kristy, he did that to me, he crushed my heart, because he felt like he deserved to feel young and have some fun. And now? I think he always intended to come home - eventually. When he was done. He thought I'd just keep begging, just keep waiting, and whenever he felt like it, he could waltz back in and I'd kiss the ground he walks on because he did me a favor and came back. And id 'get over it'. He undid 20 years and knowingly hurt me - bevause he knew me and knew he could. Kristy, I never saw Frank as selfish, I always thought he was just 'old-fashioned' the way he was with me. But now I see it so clearly. I would've stayed with that man through anything, and he thought of me as so inconsequential that he could destroy me. For... nothing. I don't care if he's sorry and I don't care if he stays faithful. Something went when all this happened that isn't coming back whether I want it to or not" Wow, that was quite an insightful post Kristi! Thanks for sharing. I think it takes quite a bit of time for some people to get to a point where they can actually make a decision as to the best course for them. Especially when your life has been about everyone else for so long. Theresa was lucky to have such a wise friend.
Spark1111 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 JLB, the only proper response to remodeling the kitchen is: Do what you want. I won't be living here. To going to Hawaii: Thanks, but no thanks. I can't go on vacation with YOU and the kids. We're getting divorced, yes? You are in a relationship with someone else. To dinner with the kids, unless it is a birthday or a family holiday, or some major milestone celebration in their life: Oh, no I have plans with.....? The only time you will have further conversation on any of the above is when he ends it with his OW and goes NC. Otherwise, I think you are just prolonging their relationship, or your's with him, in this limbo land of noncomittal fence-sitting crap.
Spark1111 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 He still has his OW, and now he has his family on the weekends with a nicer, kinder you attending a good part of it. It's even BETTER FOR HIM now than during the affair. Think on that.
Mimolicious Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Stop playing this game. You'll be like this for a long long time and in reality, you are wasting your time. Don't syke yourself (because that is what you are doing) or you will end up worse than when he first got caught. Leave his a$$ in the dust playing his own little games. Do you! Move on! Find someone that is your and you are his plan A,B,C,69 and all. Good luck!
Author JLB Posted May 23, 2011 Author Posted May 23, 2011 Gosh I had such a long reply typed out....hit a button by accident (damn fake nails!) and it wiped it all out.....(sigh) Kristy and Spark, I wanted to reply to both of you but I have so much on mind about what happened yesterday morning that I need to get it written down before I forget all of it. Quick Re-cap: For those of you have been following my thread or those who are new and just picking up reading here...I am dealing with a fence sitter-cake eater and possible narcissist. Some day I am still hoping he will seek IC and let that person determine if he is in fact narcissistic. The fence sitter has been showing up at my apartment on the weekends. I had rented an apartment to stay in while he is in town (he works out of town) so that he didn't give me the excuse that he had "nowhere to spend time with his kids". I was tired of his dropping by to see the kids for a few hours while I was at work and then leaving to go have his FREE nights with the OW. So I don't regret the apartment. Now he has no excuses and it tears him away from OW. I had decided that if he showed up again at my apartment again that I would set him straight about how we are NOT doing this or going down this road any longer. The first few weeks of this arrangement between us (him being at the house with kids, me alone at apartment) put that distance between just him and I, that I wanted... in order to show him what it would be like without me. To a degree, it did work. He can't be without me. But it didn't pull him away from OW either. So this is what I am dealing with, his not being able to be without me. I am the missing puzzle piece to the family that he used to cherish. The family, that he says... he wants to do everything for. Since it started to work so well and he was coming around, instead of sticking to my guns, I allowed the contact. This is why I started this thread, I thought the fog was lifting. We started to spend more time with each other. I think in the beginning of the thread I did mention his asking me to dinner, inviting me over etc. At first I declined a couple of invites and went out...Then I got tired of going out all the time, and decided to take him up on dinner out with the kids, movie night at our house...last weekend we went to have a couples massage and then came back to our house, watched a movie with the kids and then I went home to my apartment. It was weird...like we were dating....we even had the long goodbye kiss outside. That would all be okay with me, if there wasn't another woman in the picture. I realize we do need time apart to fix us. So I guess you can't completely blame him for showing up at the apartment...but I didn't give him the address nor the apartment #. He researched that on his own. The last couple of weeks I had still thought there was something changing in us...up until this past week where after he left to fly back to LA...he completely blew me off for the entire week. Then showed up again yesterday at the apartment...it was at that time I decided to put my foot down and stop this once and for all. Below are parts of the conversation and some things that he said that have revealed to me, that this man IS in a mid-life crisis. It's 8:30 am on a Sunday morning (yesterday) and I am in bed, asleep...well partially...with a massive hangover. I had spent Saturday night out with friends celebrating a 40th birthday party. All of a sudden I hear a knock at my front door. Instead of checking the peephole and telling myself, "I know who that is"...I went ahead and jumped in the shower (well I took a bath really)...a very lonnnnnggggg bath, hoping he would just go away. When I got out of the bathtub...I went to the peephole and he was STILL out there. He had his arms cross, feet crossed, leaning up against the balcony looking pissed off as ever. At that point, I laughed to myself and then opened the door. I let him in because it was the moment I had been waiting for. As he walked in he goes " I came by to get some forks, you took most of the silverware!" then he kind of chuckled. Ya right you came over at 8:30 am to get silverware for the house. I figured that it was going to be a long conversation so after I let him in, I climbed back into my bed and he sat on the edge of it. I asked him why was he here? He said that, he wanted to tell me about our daughter last night, about how they had gone go-karting and how funny she was and how we had to watch out for our future road rager. While he was telling me all this, he was animated and excited to tell me about how much fun they all had. It was like he couldn't tell anyone else because I would be the only one who would share in a conversation about our daughter and "get" what he was telling me about it. After I let him talk for awhile about our kids...I said, "so are you still seeing OW?" He says, "I am still talking to her, yes...I don't see her all that much" This is where he started to open up about a lot of stuff about OW. He says that OW is trying to get him to bring his kids around her. He has told her that is not an option and he has "no desire" to bring his kids around her. I asked him why she wants my kids around her so bad and he says he thinks she feels like my kids take most of his time, and that is time that she doesn't get to spend with him. I know that this woman, wants so badly to take my place or my role so to speak. If she can have him, and then my kids, then she has whole package...and then...she can really stick it to me...the woman she despises so much because she knows his heart is not entirely hers...she knows that he is fence sitting as much as I do. This has become a game to the OW. So we talked about her wanting to be around the girls and his telling her no. At that point I told him I was done being hurt by all this. That he can't keep thinking it's okay to show up at my apartment or invite me to dinner and then blow me off as if I am nothing. At that moment he started crying. He said that he didn't mean to blow me off during the week...that his week at work has become a focus for him and that that is all he thinks about. He talked about compartmentalizing his life. And I knew that is what has been going on. Me and the kids are one compartment, the OW another compartment and then his job another. So this is the part where I feel like the midlife crisis comes in. He is in debt up to his eyeballs. Has been for the last year and half (ironically for about the same length as affair)however, she came after his financial downward spiral...this man is struggling to pull himself out of financial ruin. Loss of job, loss of own business, loss of self worth, loss of self esteem, failure, being sued by the state of California, being sued by Xerox, re-hired by the company who fired him, hatred toward that company and all the higher ups, but nothing else that will pay him that exorbitant amount of money that they give him. Focusing on nothing but paying back all that debt owed to friends, family, banks...refusing to file bankruptcy because of too much pride. Trying to re-establish himself with his A+ credit history...and making that his number one priority in life. I said, "your job has become number one in your life, with your kids second, OW is Plan A after all that and then I am your Plan B option if it doesn't work out with Plan A." He said, that is not true. You are not Plan B. My kids and my job are the things I focus most on in my life....they do come first. As for you and OW, I don't look at either one of you as Plan A or Plan B. Right now I need both of you in my life because both of you are my support system to get me through this crisis I am having. I said, "why didn't you let ME be your support system and only ME, I have done nothing but support you my entire life with you and you threw me under the bus the minute this all started" and he said that he didn't want to burden me with his failure. He said that all he ever wanted to do was take care of me and the kids, and when that all came into jeopardy that he as a man, couldn't let me take over financially to support us. He continued to struggle paying our bills, keeping our home, keeping me and the girls comfortable while he went into recovery mode to save himself from financial ruin. It was almost perfect timing for him to meet OW...a millionaire who comes from family money. They met at a mutual friends dinner party in a restaurant/bar setting...and he was instantly impressed by her intellect, her knowledge of construction business, politics, football/sports (a man in a womans body?)...and the fact that he was attracted to her physically. I think I have mentioned before that she is also 20 years older than he. At that time he said he did not know that she had money. So yesterday he was telling (and crying to) me that SHE has supported him all this time. She is the one who has all along been telling him what a great guy he really is. She is the one who tells him "you can do it, you can do it" and he says she has been such a good friend, best friend at times, who has talked to him for hours about how to get out of this situation financially. I think she has probably offered him money, but he won't take it (again man pride)...but a long time ago...he told me that if anyone could help him get out of financial ruin, it would be her...and so without saying it directly to me, he has described her as his safety net (moneywise). He drew me a picture yesterday...and I am keeping it to show my counselor...of a triangle...and below the triangle he has placed two smaller square boxes under the triangle on each corner. He has said that the first small box represents me and the kids (his family)....the other small box represents the OW....he said what happens when you take one of those boxes away, what happens to the triangle? I know what happens, it tips and it throws it all off center. He says that he is not a superstitious man, but he compared it to how some baseball players or hockey players don't shave or cut their hair until the big game is over. (I kid you not, he said this!!) The big game being paying off the last person whom he owes money too, and that will come in the form of a check written to his beloved grandma for $60,000. He says that he plans to be able to write her that check this summer. So in other words I am taking it as, he isn't going to change anything between OW and I because WE are not his focus. If he were to take that focus off of what he is trying to achieve, long term goal...pay off all people...then it all crumbles...goal not achieved. SO if I expect him to try to fix us when his focus is not US...I am stupid to think he is going to even try. He won't...and because I know this man sooooooo well... I won't make him. I love him. I get it. I do....call it narcissism if you will....but I know in my heart that me and the kids ARE the most important thing to him, I know he is doing this for US because what good would trying to get back your financial stability if in the end there was nothing left for you. It would all be for nothing. And he doesn't want there to be nothing...I think that is why he doesn't let me get too far away. I know he doesn't want someone to come and steal me away. It's almost like he wants me to go live my life...and let him figure this out...and be there for him when he achieves that goal or gets through this crisis. Can any of you understand what I have just written? I keep telling myself if I just go do things that make me happy, find hobbies, go out with friends, and take the focus off him and I, that he will find his way back....It all makes sense to me now. I told him I am not waiting....but I'm also not out there looking for someone new. If it happens it happens...I told him that if the OW were not in the picture that I could be okay with our separation and that it needs to be that way in order for us both to grow. But whatever...I can't make him stop seeing her, talking to her. Like I mentioned above...not his focus. I think Baroness's story mimics mine quite alot. It's like he is on this journey where I am not sitting in the passenger seat with him..maybe the backseat...and I can either get either get out of the backseat of the car...or I can stay in the car....I think I want to get out of the car and get into my own car, but stay on the same road, whether I pass him on that road, or take a right and find my own road, or stay side by side on that road only to meet up at the same destination, remains to be seen. (ha ha on the analogy...I like it So focus off him, focus on me...focus on my kids, focus on my life...Just don't know what to do when he needs me....be the friend? I don't want to be nasty....I would if it was all about the OW, but I don't think it is...He told me yesterday that he can't be around her that much, that she drives him crazy. I don't foresee "that" as something he wants when he gets his life figured out.
Mimolicious Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Girl... This dude is a clown. I was married to one of those. RUN AND RUN fast. He will drain the life out of you. MOVE ON! Unreal... This dude has b@lls to tell you that the both of you are his "support" system. Sad thing is that you better believe him. Have no doubt that he is serious about what he said. Besides, why should you be of "support" to him? After all, he left you for another woman. Don't do that to yourself. Trust me, it's not worth your sanity, time or health.
Spark1111 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Here's the bottom line: Where is YOUR support system? Wish him well with his efforts to get out of debt; his mid-life crisis; his depression; his new job which he hates..... But WHO is supporting you during this difficult time of emotional upheaval? It sounds like it is certainly not him and won't be for a long, long time. Be polite, wish him well, but YOU also need many things, and you should not be afraid to ask for them, demand them even, to ever consider a relationship with him! Don't you get it? It is, and has always been, about him; his midlife crisis-ing, his job, his ego, his depression, his feelings, his self worth, or lack thereof. He tells you what he thinks you want to hear; he tells her what she may want to hear. It may all very well be true. But it is ALL about him, and he just has to get over himself. From this day forward, make it all about JLB: What she wants, what she needs, what her conditions are to ever think of reconciling with this man: NC, IC, and MC.....for starters. I think it is good you are listening to him, and supporting his efforts to be an involved parent.....BUT.... JLB, many people have suffered depression, loss of job, status, feelings of failure, blah, blah, blah... They do not go out and have affairs that destroy the very person who has loved and supported them throughout it all. They love and appreciate that person beyond belief. If you ever hope this man will change into someone who you could even consider trusting a future with, the time is NOW, not when the debts are satisfied, the job more palatable, the OW let down gently. If he truly cares about NOT losing you, more than his meal ticket, then NOW is when he has to take a stand. I'm sure he could find a competent therapist wherever he resides during the week. It is now about YOU, YOU, YOU. He either loves and desires YOU as the ONLY woman he wants his life, or you can go on to be friendly co-parenters. I'm with Mimo....RUN away from him until you see signs of this, and start meeting NEW men.
Author JLB Posted May 24, 2011 Author Posted May 24, 2011 Thank you Spark...I am going to print this out...very well written. It's so hard when you love someone so much and you want so badly for them to pull their head out of their a$$ and realize what they are going to lose before it's too late.
Spark1111 Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Thank you Spark...I am going to print this out...very well written. It's so hard when you love someone so much and you want so badly for them to pull their head out of their a$$ and realize what they are going to lose before it's too late. Soooo understand this, empathize with this, lived it! This is the whole premise of the 180! Some people are so selfishly wrapped up in their own head, problems, victimhood, they do not realize WHAT they are losing until it is walking out the door and moving on. It is the ultimate wake-up call. What they have taken for granted (YOU) is moving on to greener pastures. And yet, in the darkest days after DDay, I realized it was maybe the worst mistake I had ever made: To be too compassionate, understanding, loving and devoted. Where did that get me? Betrayed for a lesser woman who told him how wonderful he was! If love is an action, I showed it in spades. Yet, he still didn't RESPECT me enough to NOT cheat on me. I found, in those dark, crazy and confusing times, my own SELF-RESPECT and stopped feelin sorry for him! I thought, every day, I am a good woman; loving, kind, hard-working, self-sufficient and supporting, a devoted mother, and this SOB cheats on me? Hell, I'm a gd catch! And there is a great guy out there who will realize it. If not, I am happy alone. I do not need this drama anymore! Most men would KILL to have a spouse like me. I am not being conceited here, I just knew I was WORTH MORE, and I began to believe it and feel it. And then I began to act like it! Then I began to formulate what I deserved in a partner. I wanted to receive EXACTLY what I had given all those years: respect, kindness, compassion, and devotion. And I put that man through hell, before I would even consider reconciling because the rules had changed. He changed them with his affair and his easy ability to throw me, our family, and our history overboard for a woman who knew nothing about him, but snagged him by telling him how wonderful he was. I wanted a confident man, one who no longer played the victim card to gain sympathy; one who cherished me every day and was grateful I was in his life. I told him I hoped it would be him, because I did and always had loved him, but if not, I was okay with that too. He would always be the father of my children and I would always treat him with respect for their sakes. But I needed the man I deserved. And I was moving on. JLB, you should too. Until you see that man, the one who fights for you and your marriage and is willing to do ANYTHING to get it, you should too. You are worth it. Believe it.
Recommended Posts