I think he is coming out of the fog, now what?

[JLB]

There seems to be some fog-lifting going on lately.

I have been working hard on the 180, and it does work. In my sitch it worked fast. Just doing things for myself and what makes me happy and letting that show through, works wonders. I stopped worrying about what he was doing and focused on what I want to do.

 

I suppose this might also sound like cake eating. Here are some details about why I think the fog might be lifting. He is stalking me...not in a creepy sort of way...just showing up randomly in places I go to. And in these places he is showing up alone and not using my kids to relay an invitation to come by the house. When he shows up he says he saw my car in the parking lot etc. Someone told me "well he's just checking up on you"...and I can understand that...but this is a change in him. Before he didn't care what I did or who I saw..In fact about 6 months ago he told me straight out, "I don't care what you do or who you see."

 

This past Friday night, he showed up again at OUR home...where I stay with the kids during the week while he works out of town. He had told me in the past that he would not be coming to our home on Friday nights to stay with the kids because it was just easier to go over to OW's place cause he was too tired after his flight. A bunch of BS, but whatever...so I was shocked to see him pull up Friday evening after his flight.

 

Part of me decided not to move completely out of the house. I am using the apartment as a way to separate the two of us when he does come to town so that he can stay with the kids in our home. I know it probably sounds stupid to people but this is what I felt would wake him up...being in our home..seeing some of my things..yet not having me there on the weekends and having to wonder what I'm out doing. Kind of a reversal there. Put him in my shoes. And he knows better than to have OW over also. My girls know all about OW, she wouldn't be welcome I know that 110%. So in a way it's a good thing, I pull him away from the OW and make him live up to his responsibilities as a father....and it sets him and OW up for a battle when he leaves her to come over to our house. She gets her panties up in a bunch if she finds out he has ANY contact with me.

 

So I made small talk with him...and acted like I was going pack up my tote bag of items I take to my apartment and he stopped me and asked me if I would like to go out to dinner with him and the kids, so I said "sure"...we had a great dinner and had great conversation. I really tried to not do any talking and let him do it all and just be a good listener. Afterwords we went back to our house and I again started to leave...Part of me wanted him to stop me again and ask me to stay...but he didn't...well until I got to my apartment and then he sent me a text asking me to come back. I told him "no...that I was not coming back tonight" and went to sleep.

 

He didn't know where I had moved up until a week ago. I had to write a check to my apartment complex and I wrote the apartment # and name of my apartment complex on my check. We still share a joint checking account,so he must have looked up my canceled check online to find out where I live. Saturday morning he showed up, alone again...knocking on my door. I wasn't going to open the door, but decided I would see what he wanted and he just grabbed me and held onto me. I decided at that time, that I would not ask about OW...nor would I want to "talk" about us in any way. I told myself to stay strong, stay happy and keep up the moving on with my life attitude.

 

Saturday afternoon, I had a flight booked to Vegas to go party with some friends and to spend Mothers Day with my mom. I didn't really make a huge deal about whether I should go or not...I just booked the flight and went. Normally I would be too worried to leave him home alone, thinking he would be talking to the OW the whole evening or texting away or whatever. I just didn't care...and left. Well he actually dropped me off at the airport with my kids..and gave me a kiss goodbye at the curb.

 

On Monday, he was still at our home staying with the kids and about noon he picked me up from the airport (kids were at a school)...He asked me if I was hungry and I said "yes" and so we went to lunch together. Again, I let him do all the talking, and me all the listening. I threw in some things to make the conversation interesting...later we attended a basketball game for my daughter and then later that evening he flew back to LA.

 

He has been throwing out random texts, always thanking me for something I have done...or tellling me he had a good day with me or telling me to have a GREAT DAY!!!

 

I do realize this might not be fog lifting...I think it is because before he was more into being a "couple" with the OW and now he acts more like she is just a friend with benefits. The OW has to be getting tired of this...this is not what she wants out of him...she wants him to be her man! She wants him to spend his time with her and he isn't. He is throwing her crumbs and she doesn't care, she will take what she can get out of him.

 

I don't think they really spend all that much time together, other than if she fly's out to LA to stay with him...and I think she did 2 weeks ago...but he had to have gotten sick of that and I'm wondering if that is the reason why he came home Friday night. It drives me crazy wondering what is going on with them, but I keep telling myself..."who cares...it's not about what he is doing with her"....I need to focus on me and what I'm doing with my life to move on.

 

I don't know whether to keep doing what I'm doing, which is not expecting any reactions from him...having no expectations on his wanting to get back together and continuing to do what I do...and yet knowing he is going to continue coming around me and trying to see me, checking up on me etc. and let him make all the moves..and allowing that to an extent without being a doormat... Or tell him to stop completely....Stop coming around, stop showing up, stop doing all these things....unless you are ready to leave her. I know he isn't ready to leave her. But he sure is pulling away from that a little bit....so hard to know what the right moves are, yet also knowing that it's not about manipulation thinking if I do this, he'll do that.

 

I will not ask about the OW any longer, nor will I try to get him to talk to me. It will have to be his decision to bring up any talk about reconciliation and what he is doing about OW.

 

And for the record, we have had a false recovery. It ended in my catching him with her 3 weeks after he came home...so no repeats of that.

 

thoughts?

Edited May 11, 2011 by JLB

[YellowShark]

Thoughts? Well it sounds like you are plan "B." Plan "A" is OW - who he hasn't dumped - and plan "B" is keeping you on-the-hook just enough incase plan "A" fails.

[Linda9999]

I dunno. When I found out what fWH was up to, I kicked him to the curb. If he hadn't basically begged to get back together I wouldn't have even considered it. I was done and he knew it. He has had to prove himself over and over since, and if he wasn't doing that we wouldn't be together. I know it sounds like I am making him grovel, but I'm not - he is groveling all on his own. Or rather was - we're in counseling and the groveling went on just long enough for me to accept the message, now the healing is going on, for both of us.

[Baroness67]

Well, it sounds like he is cake-eating for sure. However, I let my H do a bit of that, too, for a while. This was largely because I managed to get to the point where it just didn't matter to me. I didn't want a divorce but realized he could file for one if he wanted to. I was done trying to "get him back" but also had no interest in "moving on" with my life in any particular way. I didn't want to date anyone new or kick him to the curb. We weren't having sex at the time and for all I knew we weren't going to ever have sex together again.

 

I just let it go and let him do what he wanted, whatever that was. I figured, if he leaves me for her, or whatever he does, that's his voodoo as far as the kids are concerned. Game playing became exhausting.

 

IMHO I think if you want to save the marriage and think he might come out of his "fog" (it's possible, for sure) and can get past what he's done to form a new marriage, you are making all the right moves. Be there. Show him you are consistent. Don't be angry with him. Sometimes they just don't know what they want but are happy if they can blame their decision on someone else getting mad at him. For example, spending time with you to punish the OW because she gets her panties in a bunch, lol.

 

Or, going back to OW because you've pushed him in a certain direction (according to him).

 

I know I keep saying this, but basically when I "let go" of him, that's when he started to act like himself again. I am not sure he ever meant to escape or run away - he just wanted to prove to himself and to me, that he could. That he was not trapped as a husband and father and was still a man who could make his own decisions.

 

And once he was left alone with them, I think things started to become more clear for him. I mean, did he really want to run off with someone like OW (I won't get into specifics about her, but wow. Talk about someone he'd never bring home to his parents.)?

 

Anyway, good for you. Treat him well - but remember to treat yourself better.

[JLB]

Thoughts? Well it sounds like you are plan "B." Plan "A" is OW - who he hasn't dumped - and plan "B" is keeping you on-the-hook just enough incase plan "A" fails.

 

K...I have considered that. Which means that he is cake-eating.

 

So at this point, I should stop thinking that the fog is lifting and stick to my guns and tell him to stay away from me then? Or do I even need to say that to him? ..Maybe I should just tell him I'm busy...although now that he knows where I live I see random surprise visits to my apartment from him.

[YellowShark]

Well JLB IMHO never make someone a priority who only sees you as an option. If he was truly committed to you he would move mountains to be with you. Since he still has OW on the radar but is trying to woo you subtly with all this passive aggressive crap I would look at his actions and disregard his words.

 

There is zero chance you two will make it unless he ends the relationship with OW. Zero. So I would say to him stop stalking me unless you are single and serious about repairing the damage you have done. But that's just me.

 

Good luck.

[JLB]

Well, it sounds like he is cake-eating for sure. However, I let my H do a bit of that, too, for a while. This was largely because I managed to get to the point where it just didn't matter to me. I didn't want a divorce but realized he could file for one if he wanted to. I was done trying to "get him back" but also had no interest in "moving on" with my life in any particular way. I didn't want to date anyone new or kick him to the curb. We weren't having sex at the time and for all I knew we weren't going to ever have sex together again.

 

I just let it go and let him do what he wanted, whatever that was. I figured, if he leaves me for her, or whatever he does, that's his voodoo as far as the kids are concerned. Game playing became exhausting.

 

IMHO I think if you want to save the marriage and think he might come out of his "fog" (it's possible, for sure) and can get past what he's done to form a new marriage, you are making all the right moves. Be there. Show him you are consistent. Don't be angry with him. Sometimes they just don't know what they want but are happy if they can blame their decision on someone else getting mad at him. For example, spending time with you to punish the OW because she gets her panties in a bunch, lol.

 

Or, going back to OW because you've pushed him in a certain direction (according to him).

 

I know I keep saying this, but basically when I "let go" of him, that's when he started to act like himself again. I am not sure he ever meant to escape or run away - he just wanted to prove to himself and to me, that he could. That he was not trapped as a husband and father and was still a man who could make his own decisions.

 

And once he was left alone with them, I think things started to become more clear for him. I mean, did he really want to run off with someone like OW (I won't get into specifics about her, but wow. Talk about someone he'd never bring home to his parents.)?

 

Anyway, good for you. Treat him well - but remember to treat yourself better.

 

Baroness! Thanks for replying. I completely agree with what you have just said. It's exactly the way I feel! And it's so funny how he changes when I act like I don't care. And it's not really an act anymore. I really am exhausted from all this, and most of the time I really don't care. Do what you must!! I also think that in my situation he is/was trying to escape from reality and to prove to me that "no one is gonna tell me what I can and can't do."

 

At what point though, did you know he was serious about reconciliation? My WS is not good at talking/communication (if he was I don't think we would even be going down this road). I don't see him sitting me down telling me that he wants to talk about US or telling me the details when/if he decides it's over with them. I don't even see begging in his future. It may only be in actions that I see it. Maybe spending more time at home, asking me to come around more...his coming around to see me. I know this man all too well, and the above is just not his character.

[Baroness67]

At what point though, did you know he was serious about reconciliation? My WS is not good at talking/communication (if he was I don't think we would even be going down this road). I don't see him sitting me down telling me that he wants to talk about US or telling me the details when/if he decides it's over with them. I don't even see begging in his future. It may only be in actions that I see it. Maybe spending more time at home, asking me to come around more...his coming around to see me. I know this man all too well, and the above is just not his character.

 

Yes, this is my H, too. I mean, it was not him when we first met, when he was a younger man, but let's put it this way, by the standards of some, his father was an extremely important man. He's actually on Wikipedia. (And, I know, right, so is anything or anyone that makes a headline anywhere. I get it. I'm just adding something I think is relevant.) Also a very non-communicative guy who let his wife do everything, and I do mean everything. His Dad never touched a lawn mower or even the mail. He may not have even ever figured out how to work a microwave or turn on the stove.

 

I thought when I married my H as a young man that I was marrying a man who came from a family that appreciated stability. Never even occurred to me that I might be marrying a man who had freedom and self-determination issues that he would need to work out later. But, there you go, that's being young. How do you know what on earth you will be 25 or 30 years later?

 

So, my H has turned out to be much like his father. Expects me to do everything. Wants to be a great Dad but is far too driven (same business as his father) to really make major changes. I guess he could if he wanted to, but his priorities are really lined up with those of his father. If he makes the best living possible, where should anyone complain, and yes, there's the entitlement issue. Why can't he have a wife who does everything from raising the kids to taking care of his elderly mother (his father has passed), AND have a fun girlfriend who wants to go drinking and see the Black Eyed Peas?

 

Basically I guess your question was, when did I know he was serious about recommitting to the relationship. My answer is that I have given up "knowing" anything. He is still his own person, and so am I. I have not even given up the possibility that I will be "done" with him at some point. I just don't know. Midlife is so crazy. I feel like I change every day sometimes.

 

I just knew, I felt like I worked to build this lifestyle. His parents, important as they were, actually did not pay for his graduate school or even help us out at any point when we were ridiculously cash-poor. I think this is what possibly fueled a lot of my H's ambition to not just succeed, but over-the-top exceed and surpass his Dad, which is saying something. And he's done it. Unfortunately his Dad's not here to see it, but, for example, the other members of his family are, his siblings and so on, and I think it means a great deal to him to feel like he's ... shall we say, at least last year, he was definitely a "winner" .... hope you all get what I mean by that.

 

Rather than focus on his obligations towards me and recommitting to "me" etc. and so on, I have chosen to stand back and see if I can understand his journey. He's not a guy who would ever do therapy and he's not a talker.

 

I'm just watching where he goes. Am I a doormat? I don't like to think so. I'm actually living my life the way I would live it if we were divorced or if something happened to him. I try to enjoy each day understanding that life is a process, not a series of guarantees.

[alexandria35]

Thoughts? Well it sounds like you are plan "B." Plan "A" is OW - who he hasn't dumped - and plan "B" is keeping you on-the-hook just enough incase plan "A" fails.

 

I don't know your story so I don't know if your plan is to save the marriage or not. If your plan is to save the marriage then I think the way it goes is that after you do a good plan A, then it's on to plan B, which is no contact. Obviously you can't go completely no contact when you have children with him but your contact should be strictly related to the kids and nothing else. Otherwise your husband is still being allowed to have two relationships and as long as he can have both, he won't make a decision. Now that you have fostered some positive feelings in him, it's time to make him feel the loss of this relationship. Stop doing lunches and dinner dates with him, if you are telling him that you love him or miss him stop doing that. You can still be friendly and upbeat when you talk to him but don't talk to him if it's not about the children.

[LilyBart]

JLB - your inside isn't matching up with your outside. By this, I mean you're ACTING like you're doing the 180, trying to convince yourself "it's working". But it sounds like on the inside you're still desperately hoping your H will come back to you.

 

You can say all you want how you've stopped worrying about him - but the truth is, you are still FOCUSING on him. By looking for little details of how his 'fog' might be lifting. By making mental notes on how he's showing up in unexpected places, random texts that he's sending or the fact that he invited you to dinner with the kids.

 

You're hoping that 'having him in the house with my things' will make a difference. You might think you are setting the OW and your H up for battle.....but you really don't know that. SHE may think it's great to have time to herself, so she can go do HER 'thing'....while he's stuck at the house with the kids.

 

The OW has to be getting tired of this...this is not what she wants out of him...she wants him to be her man! She wants him to spend his time with her and he isn't. He is throwing her crumbs and she doesn't care, she will take what she can get out of him.

 

I know this is what you hope is happening - but isn't it possible that you are the one "accepting crumbs"? By looking at all these little things he's doing as if it's something important?

 

People tell the OW this all the time - if the MM loves you enough, he will move mountains to be with you. If that point is valid, it should also be valid at the other end of the spectrum.

 

If you (the W) were important enough, your H would be moving mountains to be with you. He should be groveling at your feet and dating you, wooing you, trying to get you back. And that's not what's happening here, is it?

[Baroness67]

I was re-reading what I posted (my habit, I can go off track sometimes and say something I don't want to say, on the net forever) and read the last few comments, particularly the one about "accepting crumbs".

 

I actually don't disagree with this, it's absolutely true that sometimes some of us accept crumbs. I know I have. For sure.

 

I just have to look at the larger picture. My spouse is a person. So are my children. Do my children (hey, particularly the teenagers) ever treat me poorly? YES. Do I tell them they are out the door because of it? No! Does my MIL ever make me wish I had no relationship with her at all and want to run out the door? Check.

[JLB]

I don't know your story so I don't know if your plan is to save the marriage or not. If your plan is to save the marriage then I think the way it goes is that after you do a good plan A, then it's on to plan B, which is no contact. Obviously you can't go completely no contact when you have children with him but your contact should be .strictly related to the kids and nothing else. Otherwise your husband is still being allowed to have two relationships and as long as he can have both, he won't make a decision. Now that you have fostered some positive feelings in him, it's time to make him feel the loss of this relationship. Stop doing lunches and dinner dates with him, if you are telling him that you love him or miss him stop doing that. You can still be friendly and upbeat when you talk to him but don't talk to him if it's not about the children.

 

 

Thanks Alexandria for your reply.

 

Oh yes, I have done the Plan A's and Plan B's a few times, only to fail (my own fault)...I have even typed up the Plan B letter and sent it off to him. I think for me personally I had to find the strength in myself before I really could do a successful Plan B on him. I am almost positive I am at that point where I can do a successful Plan B and be happy with that and not fail this time. I just don't know how to react to him when he shows up in these random surprise visits. He isn't going to listen to me when I say, don't contact me. So at that point when he shows up somewhere I am going to have to talk to him and decide whether I want to stay calm and collected and tell him, "we aren't doing this anymore, please leave" or get angry with him. I doubt I would get angry, it's just my personality. I am a very laid back person. Any tips on stopping the wayward in his tracks when stalking?

[JLB]

JLB - your inside isn't matching up with your outside. By this, I mean you're ACTING like you're doing the 180, trying to convince yourself "it's working". But it sounds like on the inside you're still desperately hoping your H will come back to you.

 

You can say all you want how you've stopped worrying about him - but the truth is, you are still FOCUSING on him. By looking for little details of how his 'fog' might be lifting. By making mental notes on how he's showing up in unexpected places, random texts that he's sending or the fact that he invited you to dinner with the kids.

 

You're hoping that 'having him in the house with my things' will make a difference. You might think you are setting the OW and your H up for battle.....but you really don't know that. SHE may think it's great to have time to herself, so she can go do HER 'thing'....while he's stuck at the house with the kids.

 

 

 

I know this is what you hope is happening - but isn't it possible that you are the one "accepting crumbs"? By looking at all these little things he's doing as if it's something important?

 

People tell the OW this all the time - if the MM loves you enough, he will move mountains to be with you. If that point is valid, it should also be valid at the other end of the spectrum.

 

If you (the W) were important enough, your H would be moving mountains to be with you. He should be groveling at your feet and dating you, wooing you, trying to get you back. And that's not what's happening here, is it?

 

Wow, you are right....see that is why I need you guys...to tell me when I am not thinking clearly and to point out what is really happening here. I agree with you.

[JLB]

Yes, this is my H, too. I mean, it was not him when we first met, when he was a younger man, but let's put it this way, by the standards of some, his father was an extremely important man. He's actually on Wikipedia. (And, I know, right, so is anything or anyone that makes a headline anywhere. I get it. I'm just adding something I think is relevant.) Also a very non-communicative guy who let his wife do everything, and I do mean everything. His Dad never touched a lawn mower or even the mail. He may not have even ever figured out how to work a microwave or turn on the stove.

 

I thought when I married my H as a young man that I was marrying a man who came from a family that appreciated stability. Never even occurred to me that I might be marrying a man who had freedom and self-determination issues that he would need to work out later. But, there you go, that's being young. How do you know what on earth you will be 25 or 30 years later?

 

So, my H has turned out to be much like his father. Expects me to do everything. Wants to be a great Dad but is far too driven (same business as his father) to really make major changes. I guess he could if he wanted to, but his priorities are really lined up with those of his father. If he makes the best living possible, where should anyone complain, and yes, there's the entitlement issue. Why can't he have a wife who does everything from raising the kids to taking care of his elderly mother (his father has passed), AND have a fun girlfriend who wants to go drinking and see the Black Eyed Peas?

 

Basically I guess your question was, when did I know he was serious about recommitting to the relationship. My answer is that I have given up "knowing" anything. He is still his own person, and so am I. I have not even given up the possibility that I will be "done" with him at some point. I just don't know. Midlife is so crazy. I feel like I change every day sometimes.

 

I just knew, I felt like I worked to build this lifestyle. His parents, important as they were, actually did not pay for his graduate school or even help us out at any point when we were ridiculously cash-poor. I think this is what possibly fueled a lot of my H's ambition to not just succeed, but over-the-top exceed and surpass his Dad, which is saying something. And he's done it. Unfortunately his Dad's not here to see it, but, for example, the other members of his family are, his siblings and so on, and I think it means a great deal to him to feel like he's ... shall we say, at least last year, he was definitely a "winner" .... hope you all get what I mean by that.

 

Rather than focus on his obligations towards me and recommitting to "me" etc. and so on, I have chosen to stand back and see if I can understand his journey. He's not a guy who would ever do therapy and he's not a talker.

 

I'm just watching where he goes. Am I a doormat? I don't like to think so. I'm actually living my life the way I would live it if we were divorced or if something happened to him. I try to enjoy each day understanding that life is a process, not a series of guarantees.

 

Baroness,

It's ironic in how you describe your H. I have always done everything as well, including working 60+ hour a week job (owning my own business) and taking care of 2 teenage girls who are involved in dance, cheer, softball and basketball while he is off being the project manager of a multi-million dollar company. He is an extremely important person in that company, and is driven to be the best man for the job in the eyes of the CEO's and other higher ups. He is arrogant and most people who work around him either argue with him for hours (because he is never wrong) or leave in a huff because he told them to get the H** off of his job site. His job is #1 and is what drives him everyday. He is looking for over the top success...and nothing will stand in his way. So for me to think that this man is going to move mountains to get me back...I don't think he will. That's just not him. Like you....he does not focus on his obligations to me or re-committing to me. I too have to stand back and watch the journey.

 

I just don't think that I have a place in this journey right now. I understand this part very much. I read a book by Steve Harvey and first chapter explains that until a man reaches the kind of success with a career that he is trying to achieve in life, he won't focus on you until he does. That's just the way men are. I think because I do get this part about him, that I get what the OW is for him in all this. She is nothing but a distraction from his high powered job, someone who will baby him, stroke his ego, give him massages and bake him brownies, text him all day long and tell him how wonderful he is and all the little crap she does because she has nothing better to do but focus on him...but he isn't giving anything back to her. She is hanging on to nothing. Where with me, I am too much work right now. He doesn't have time to fix the mess he has created because focus is on job, job, job...so it's easier to keep cheating on me with a woman who supposedly has no expectations (so he says) and he can keep climbing that financially successful ladder until he is where he wants to be.

 

I think this explains why he gets a little crazy when it looks like I am moving on or possibly seeing someone else...because he hasn't had time to focus on US...so he wants to make sure that I am not too far gone so that when he does finally get to where he wants to be with this stupid job...that he can re-focus and fix his mess with us. Yes, he is sacrificing me for financial security. It is more important unfortunately.

[Woman In Blue]

I think this explains why he gets a little crazy when it looks like I am moving on or possibly seeing someone else...because he hasn't had time to focus on US...so he wants to make sure that I am not too far gone so that when he does finally get to where he wants to be with this stupid job...that he can re-focus and fix his mess with us. Yes, he is sacrificing me for financial security. It is more important unfortunately.

So what's your plan? To hang around in limbo hoping for that day in the far off future when he finally MAKES you a priority instead of just another thing on his 'to do' list?

 

All you're doing is enabling him to continue having two women. You're way too available and your door is pretty much always open to him. Why SHOULD he make any changes when he doesn't have to? He's welcome to hang out in the family home anytime he wants, he shows up and you're pleasant company and go to dinner or lunch with him - it's win/win...for HIM. His family is right where he left it - and you're always happy to welcome him back into the fold anytime he shows his face.

 

He wants you all to just sit in limbo, always waiting for him, never moving forward with your OWN lives while he does whatever the hell he WANTS.

 

If you're happy just existing in the background to give this man the emotional comfort he needs when he wants to make sure his family is still waiting patiently while he acts like a jackass, then continue what you're doing. But if you're tired of your family being treated like second class citizens, disrespected, devalued and minimalized, then DON'T continue to accept his pathetic scraps while he's off being Mr. Arrogant Businessman and some other woman's 'main' prize. Cause trust me, he ain't no prize.

[YellowShark]

I have always done everything as well, including working 60+ hour a week job (owning my own business) and taking care of 2 teenage girls who are involved in dance, cheer, softball and basketball while he is off being the project manager of a multi-million dollar company.

 

So how come you can do that - (balance work and family) - and he can't?

 

He is an extremely important person in that company, and is driven to be the best man for the job in the eyes of the CEO's and other higher ups.

 

Family should *always* come first, work second. Never ever think different.

 

He is arrogant and most people who work around him either argue with him for hours (because he is never wrong) or leave in a huff because he told them to get the H** off of his job site.

 

This is a big red flag for me. If he "is in an affair," "stringing you along," is "never wrong" and people "argue with him for hours" it really sounds like he is a classic narcissist.

 

His job is #1 and is what drives him everyday. He is looking for over the top success...and nothing will stand in his way. So for me to think that this man is going to move mountains to get me back...I don't think he will. That's just not him. Like you....he does not focus on his obligations to me or re-committing to me. I too have to stand back and watch the journey.

 

This also confirms that he is number one in his little world - (a narcissist) - and everyone else is second. I'll even go one further and say OW is second, and you and the family are third.

 

I just don't think that I have a place in this journey right now. I understand this part very much. I read a book by Steve Harvey and first chapter explains that until a man reaches the kind of success with a career that he is trying to achieve in life, he won't focus on you until he does.

 

Crap. Utter crap. My father and I balance success and family just fine. Many of my friends balance work success and family just fine. While narcissists are only in it for themselves and ignore everyone else.

 

That's just the way men are. I think because I do get this part about him, that I get what the OW is for him in all this. She is nothing but a distraction from his high powered job, someone who will baby him, stroke his ego, give him massages and bake him brownies, text him all day long and tell him how wonderful he is and all the little crap she does because she has nothing better to do but focus on him...

 

Men are not this way JLB, narcissists *are*.

 

... but he isn't giving anything back to her. She is hanging on to nothing.

 

So what do you call taking the OW out on dates and sex? Nothing? She is getting something from him that should be RESERVED only for you, his wife. He is giving her attention, sex, passion, emotion, and probably money, while you get scraps.

 

Where with me, I am too much work right now. He doesn't have time to fix the mess he has created because focus is on job, job, job...so it's easier to keep cheating on me with a woman who supposedly has no expectations (so he says) and he can keep climbing that financially successful ladder until he is where he wants to be.

 

So dump his a$$ and go find a man who can balance work and family. A man who will treat you like you deserve.. instead of a plan "B!"

 

I think this explains why he gets a little crazy when it looks like I am moving on or possibly seeing someone else...because he hasn't had time to focus on US...so he wants to make sure that I am not too far gone so that when he does finally get to where he wants to be with this stupid job...that he can re-focus and fix his mess with us. Yes, he is sacrificing me for financial security. It is more important unfortunately.

 

Total rationalization. He does what he does because you let him. You are a plan "B." Trust me, his ego couldn't take the fact that his OW and you could not possible adore him... that's why he keeps you both on the hook - (to stroke his narcissistic ego.) Meanwhile he screws you both over in an emotional tug-of-war and is neglecting you - his wife.

 

IMHO JLB you need to take the reins on this one and tell him it's either you or OW, not both. Then you and he need serious marriage counseling to deal with his infidelity... and see if he is even capable of balancing work and family.

[Spark1111]

Baroness! Thanks for replying. I completely agree with what you have just said. It's exactly the way I feel! And it's so funny how he changes when I act like I don't care. And it's not really an act anymore. I really am exhausted from all this, and most of the time I really don't care. Do what you must!! I also think that in my situation he is/was trying to escape from reality and to prove to me that "no one is gonna tell me what I can and can't do."

 

At what point though, did you know he was serious about reconciliation? My WS is not good at talking/communication (if he was I don't think we would even be going down this road). I don't see him sitting me down telling me that he wants to talk about US or telling me the details when/if he decides it's over with them. I don't even see begging in his future. It may only be in actions that I see it. Maybe spending more time at home, asking me to come around more...his coming around to see me. I know this man all too well, and the above is just not his character.

 

Brava, JLB!

 

Just continue to be gracious, kind, respectful and totally uninterested in his relationship with OW.

 

You have taken your dog out of that fight, and now he is examining what he stands to lose. Jeez, if he/she no longer have you to blame for his unhappiness he will be forced, FINALLY, to see what he is leaving and who he is going to. Yes, a bit of a de-fog here.

 

I disagree with YS. I do not believe you are his plan b because you are not acting like plan b.

 

You are acting like JLB moving on with her life. Please continue to do so.

 

He, now that he is de-fogging a bit, is insecure that you will move on to someone else before he has made a decision. Ahh, these WS are such fence-sitters, aren't they?

 

Now his OW is probably starting to pressure him for a commitment. And as they are living together with no more secrecy, he can start to examine if he wants a full-time relationship with her. It is no longer an exciting affair!

 

You cannot control him or the outcome of this situation. Keep the focus on you and your family.

 

Look, either way, you will still want the kindest relationship possible with this man for the sake of your children.

 

No matter what happens to the marriage, keep taking the high road for the sake of your own integrity.

[YellowShark]

Here's why I think JLB is his plan "B" Spark.

 

He is stalking me...not in a creepy sort of way...just showing up randomly in places I go to.... This past Friday night, he showed up again at OUR home... and he stopped me and asked me if I would like to go out to dinner with him and the kids, so I said "sure"...Afterwords we went back to our house and I again started to leave...Part of me wanted him to stop me again and ask me to stay...but he didn't...well until I got to my apartment and then he sent me a text asking me to come back...he must have looked up my canceled check online to find out where I live.... Saturday morning he showed up, alone again...knocking on my door. I wasn't going to open the door, but decided I would see what he wanted and he just grabbed me and held onto me....He has been throwing out random texts, always thanking me for something I have done...or tellling me he had a good day with me or telling me to have a GREAT DAY!!!... other than if she fly's out to LA to stay with him...and I think she did 2 weeks ago...

 

The OW is *his* plan "A." JLB and the family are his fall-back plan... AKA "B."

[nyrias]

Family should *always* come first, work second. Never ever think different.

 

That, obviously, is NOT true for many men. The question, of course, is whether *you* (as an individual, not generally for women) would avoid these type of men. I do not think changing them is very realistic.

 

Furthermore, I think women do like successful men. Unfortunately, at least from yellowshark perspective, often successful men put their work first (the correlation is obvious).

 

Now if you are lucky and found a successful man who put family first, great and more power to you.

 

However, if you have to choose "success" and "family first", which way will *YOU* go?

 

From my observations, not every woman will go with "family first".

[JLB]

I do want the stalking to stop...It would be one thing if it came with "wanting to work on us" and "it's over with OW and I have proof." But I think it's more his wanting to get his "fix" of me.

 

I don't mind his asking me to dinner with the kids or going to our kids games together..because I can always decline the invite.....but showing up unannounced is not cool..

[2sure]

I think you should decline the next invite. If your intention is to show him the reality of your being gone ( and a good plan on your part in my opinion) - then when he visits the children, he needs to know he doesnt get to visit you by default. Show him the reality.

 

The kids minus you.

 

A lot of spouses come back, change their minds, have regret, couples get back together even after divorce because when one simple thing happens (and not just when the problem was infidelity, but especially then)

 

The results of their actions, or the results of a separation , dont really sink in until the left spouse moves on, until they do not have access, or until the BS...is considering other partners.

 

Another upside to your current line of thinking:

 

You may realize you actually are able, and want, to move on without him.

[Snowflower]

Good advice on this thread!

 

It's a process, JLB, to learn to live without him or without any guarantees. I think you're doing a good job at acting disinterested. And as predicted, it has caught his attention.

 

However, I agree with those here who say he is cake-eating to some extent and you are too readily available.

 

Why in the world would you even want to give him the time of day when he is still in contact/living with the OW? Until he ends the affair for good I don't think you should talk to him outside of your girls/finances/house.

 

I get that he is "stalking" you and visiting your apartment. I agree that it is a sign that his thoughts/feelings are changing to some extent about his involvement in the affair. But he really has no business talking to you until about personal things until he is willing to recommit and that means he ends the affair.

 

I don't get why you are so accommodating toward him. I think he is interested (for lack of a better word) which is a good start but you are making it too darn easy for him.

 

I've been in your shoes--although my situation was not as prolonged as you describe and my H got his sh*t together pretty quickly after D-day. I understand how hard it is--but if you take him back too easily or allow him to schmooze his way back in to your life, you will always question yourself and the truth of his actions/words.

 

It's one thing to be gracious and willing to try to understand, it's completely another thing to be a pushover. I'm not saying that you are but it won't hurt anything for him to have to think and work out how to try to repair things.

Hope that makes sense!

[2sunny]

you are now his back burner gal... he's keeping you there in case he gets tired of his main gal. (OW)

[PhoenixRise]

I agree with much of the advise you have been given on this thread.

 

I do think you are being too accommodating. I think your husband gets to have the great new relationship with the OW and on the other hand he has got you ready to play happy family with him whenever he needs a hit of family life. Seems like all is smooth and easy for him and he gets everything he wants.

 

What do you want?

 

If he is living with OW then you should be treating him like you are divorcing him. Not saying be mean or nasty. Classy and gracious win the day every time. But I am saying that you shouldn't be sitting around waiting to see what he will do next.

 

That means no family dinners or lunches (or at least start declining most of them) let the whole family be there and let him deal with your absence from the family picture.

 

And don't be available every time he invites you for a solo outing. Have stuff to do. Have people to see. Be busy, mainly for your own sake but also let him wonder what you are doing and who you are with.

 

Truly, I think you should only be talking to him about the kids and finances but I don't think you are willing to take it that far yet.

 

And if he does come back, what do you want from him?

 

Are you willing to go back to the kind of relationship you had pre-affair and pre-dday? It sounds like you are just accepting that if he does come back, he won't be making any changes that would actually improve your marriage.

 

It doesn't seem to me that the OW is the one getting the crumbs. Whatever expectations she does have, it seems like he is meeting them. What are your expectations?

Edited May 12, 2011 by PhoenixRise

[JLB]

I appreciate all of your thoughts.

 

Well I have set myself up for disappointment yet again. I keep telling myself to stop being so accommodating. I "thought" we had a pretty good week last week and "thought" the fog might be lifting. It's not.....

 

Just checked his email (thank you keylogger) and he has a flight booked to go see OW tonight and be with her on her birthday, which must be today. She is staying in Vegas at her 2nd home. He is flying in tonight ...will arrive about 6:30pm and spending the night with her, then leaving at 7am tomorrow morning to fly back to LA. I'm surprised he is leaving the next day though and so early. He will probably show up here on Friday then since she is out of town.

 

Unreal!! This man has NEVER done this for me. He has missed many of my birthdays. My birthdays have never been important to him. In fact on my birthday (before D-day), he made up some story about running an errand and went to go be with her. I just don't get it.

 

Now I feel like a fool for who I was with him last week. Nice, accommodating, non-confrontational. I should never have answered my door. Well I think it's a good thing that I know where his head still is (no pun intended ...so it keeps my defenses up and keeps me moving forward. I think I will go out tonight....