That_girl Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I have been reading A LOT about this disorder, and although I don't think my ex was full blown, or that I could actually diagnose him with something like this....I do feel like maybe I'm realizing more and more horrible things about him as time goes on. I broke up with my ex a little over a month ago. We were together for about 7 months- not long....but it was INTENSE. He cheated on me at the very beginning of the relationship and spent months begging and pleading with me, and then finally, I took him back and everything went downhill. He spent every moment with me when we weren't working and became very possessive and controlling. I saw a shift in his personality in such a short span of time...the more he realized I loved him, the more he wasn't as caring or attentive toward me as before. He became EXTREMELY critical...to the point where he would put me down and then claim he was trying to "motivate" me, or use the excuse that his father did that to him all of the time. I decided to break up with him when it got to the point where he would slam his fists against the wall, or street posts. That was my breaking point. Even though he never actually punched me...I figured it was only a matter of time. Of course he didn't understand why that type of thing would bother me at all!! He kept saying I must be breaking up with him because deep down I hate him and that I hate all men because of my own father and upbringing. **** him. He kept saying that my friends (who were also MUTUAL friends of ours who had actually known him before I did) would be happy that we were breaking up. He didn't stop to think that maybe I have such an aversion to violent tendencies in men because I have been in physically abusive relationships in the past- and he KNOWS that. He actually said that he couldn't control the fact that he might have to slam a wall every now and again- but he would NEVER hit me of course. The breakup itself wasn't as drawn out as I had expected. He pretty much accepted it and hasn't contacted me again. He said that maybe he just isn't good with women, which of course really bothers me because he didn't even TRY to understand where I was coming from....but I had tried my best to explain my feelings about the whole thing too. And when he asked me to admit that I hated him, I wouldn't. I never hated him....but I think now I'm started to realize that his behaviour should have scared me from the begginning. Anyway, I saw him on the weekend while I was sitting in the park with my friends. He had definitely seen us, but didn't approach us. He kept walking and I actually thought he was going to be normal and just leave or sit somewhere out of view, but of course he had to sit directly behind us...facing us. It kind of pissed me off. I know that it's a free park....but I also know that I wouldnt sit in his vicinity and make him feel uncomfortable. He KNOWS that must have made me uncomfortable...but we didn't leave. Eventually he and his friend got up and left. I miss him. I have started to realize that I did a lot of things to him as well. I never actually gave him my trust after he cheated- even though I said I would try to. I just wish I had ended it sooner.....so that I wouldn't be feeling this empty now. Don't narcissists always try to come back when they realize that you're moving on? And why do I want him to come back? That's even more messed up :S I just kin dof feel like I was discarded and forgotten when he finally realized that I'm not putting up with his **** anymore.
vsmini Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Don't narcissists always try to come back when they realize that you're moving on? No - in fact many narcissists you won't hear from ever again because you've essentially shattered their ego and being around you makes them feel awful for being "found out." The fact that you want him to want to come back is pretty common but somewhat unhealthy. We would all somewhat enjoy the ego stroke of having our ex's pleading for us to come back so we can see how much we mean to them. But in reality we mean very little to these guys. Don't expect him to come back but more importantly - move on to the point where you don't ever want him to come back. He sounds like a loony.
Nexus One Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I think you're over-analyzing here. He cheated on you, he put you down, he made you feel physically threatened. Yet you want him back. What more is there to say?
Author That_girl Posted May 9, 2011 Author Posted May 9, 2011 No - in fact many narcissists you won't hear from ever again because you've essentially shattered their ego and being around you makes them feel awful for being "found out." The fact that you want him to want to come back is pretty common but somewhat unhealthy. We would all somewhat enjoy the ego stroke of having our ex's pleading for us to come back so we can see how much we mean to them. But in reality we mean very little to these guys. Don't expect him to come back but more importantly - move on to the point where you don't ever want him to come back. He sounds like a loony. That is a real horrible thought. All of this research is slowing making me come to the conclusion that he really didn't give a **** about me to begin with. When I had dumped him the first time, he had begged literally on his hands and knees. He wrote me 25 pages letters and did the most ridiculous, almost borderline stalkerish things.....now I see that he was just trying to manipulate me into taking him back. He did cheat that time...so obviously he was in the wrong. This time, I feel like he is trying to make me believe that it was MY mistake, and that is why he is not coming back. Of course I made mistakes in the relationship too but I truly do feel like I was involved with a narcissist, or at least an emotionally abusive person because no matter what- he never gave me any credit for anything. Unless he had just pissed me off and was trying to make me fall for his ****. EVERYTHING i did was wrong. I remember him telling me that he would never allow me to go visit his parents again if I decided to smoke in front of them. I'm a smoker, and I always told him that it bothered me that I can't just be who I am in front of his parents. Very indicative of his general feelings that he wanted me to be someone else entirely. Someone better.
Author That_girl Posted May 9, 2011 Author Posted May 9, 2011 I think you're over-analyzing here. He cheated on you, he put you down, he made you feel physically threatened. Yet you want him back. What more is there to say? I do overanalyze things all the time...I'm working on it cause it drives me mad, especially when I just can't seem to make sense of something. This is one of those situations. I guess I'm kinda stuck on what 'was'...and also the idea of him. It was a gorgeous, talented, charming guy that initially drove me in.....and he was SO in love with me. No one has ever pursued me the way he is. It really was a mind-****.
vsmini Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 It is awful but true narcissists don't care about anyone but themselves. I know it's hard to reconcile that he didn't really care for the person you are but he is in such a state that he will never be able to see anyone for who they are because he's so wrapped up in himself. Of course he wants to turn everything back on you. Manipulation - that's how it works with those guys. Even though it sounds like he would be strong and proud and I'm sure you thought his begging and pleading was his way of showing how much he "cared for you" it doesn't mean he was doing it because he was truly sorry for what he did. He was afraid to lose you because what that would mean: losing someone that gave HIM a constant ego stroke.
vsmini Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 No one has ever pursued me the way he is. It really was a mind-****. It's called blowing hot and cold. Look into www.baggagereclaim.com they talk about this a lot.
Author That_girl Posted May 9, 2011 Author Posted May 9, 2011 It is awful but true narcissists don't care about anyone but themselves. I know it's hard to reconcile that he didn't really care for the person you are but he is in such a state that he will never be able to see anyone for who they are because he's so wrapped up in himself. Of course he wants to turn everything back on you. Manipulation - that's how it works with those guys. Even though it sounds like he would be strong and proud and I'm sure you thought his begging and pleading was his way of showing how much he "cared for you" it doesn't mean he was doing it because he was truly sorry for what he did. He was afraid to lose you because what that would mean: losing someone that gave HIM a constant ego stroke. That actually pisses me off more than anything at this point. All I did was stroke his stupid ego. Every time he produced a piece of work, he would show it to me for my approval and compliments. Of course I fed him all of the compliments I possibly could. I constantly had to tell him that I loved him because he never actually believed me. I can't believe that...
daphne Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 That- I was in a similar situation with my ex, who I suspect of being a narcissist as well. He swept me off my feet and I had a hard time accepting the reality that he was cheating on me. He initially presented himself as the perfect guy and I wanted to hold onto that fantasy. I also took him back the first time. But I wasn't sure he had cheated. When I found out he had I left after 7 months (coincidentally) of hell and mind****ing. I never looked back. It bothers me that what you really want is for this guy to want you back. I guess it's human nature, but you should really be thanking your lucky stars that this unhealthy person is out of your life. My ex still tries to get me back. It's been 3.5 years. The first year he would drive by and call all of the time. It was a little scary for a while. Be happy yours is gone. Pray that he is. Who needs drama? Also, the moment you stop reading up on narcissists, the moment you'll know you're free of him. Who cares what he is or why he does the things that he does? He's not good for you (or anyone really.) Let him go and find someone who is.
Richard Friedman Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 No he's not a narcissist, just a simp. If he was npd he would not need validation you He would've been so convinced of his superiority he would've thought you moving on was your loss.
Author That_girl Posted May 10, 2011 Author Posted May 10, 2011 Well I think that he IS trying to show me that it my loss by moving on and not begging me this time around. I think he is narcissistic because he literally does not understand what he did wrong. He doesn't want to be able to see things from my perspective. When he cheated on me, he did everything he could from buying me gifts to writing 25 pages letters to get me back into my life. This time he has no idea what he has done, and turns it around on me by sayin gthat I hate all men equally, and that I just hate him. That is narcissistic no? Whatever it is....it's not cool. And I've made a decision not to be with him. I don't think he is evil or intentionally wanted to hurt me...but I also think that I should focus on myself and how I ended up in this relationship to begin with. It's just very difficult. And I'm really appreciative of this forum...it's gotten me through my last 2 break-ups!!
whichwayisup Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 He sounds more like a control freak and an abusive as.hole more than anything. Emotional abuse, and one day it could have got physical. The stuff you miss about him, the good feelings he may have brought out in you for a short period of time, would NEVER last. He is NOT relationship material, he has tons of issues, scared of intimacy and the wall goes up. Men like that are not worth fighting for. One day you will find someone who makes your heart thump and he'll treat you so much better, and you'll feel happier and healthier. Cry, grieve the loss but don't let yourself be down for too long. That guy isn't worth it. Narcissist or not, don't wish for him to be back in your life.
Author That_girl Posted May 11, 2011 Author Posted May 11, 2011 That- I was in a similar situation with my ex, who I suspect of being a narcissist as well. He swept me off my feet and I had a hard time accepting the reality that he was cheating on me. He initially presented himself as the perfect guy and I wanted to hold onto that fantasy. I also took him back the first time. But I wasn't sure he had cheated. When I found out he had I left after 7 months (coincidentally) of hell and mind****ing. I never looked back. It bothers me that what you really want is for this guy to want you back. I guess it's human nature, but you should really be thanking your lucky stars that this unhealthy person is out of your life. My ex still tries to get me back. It's been 3.5 years. The first year he would drive by and call all of the time. It was a little scary for a while. Be happy yours is gone. Pray that he is. Who needs drama? Also, the moment you stop reading up on narcissists, the moment you'll know you're free of him. Who cares what he is or why he does the things that he does? He's not good for you (or anyone really.) Let him go and find someone who is. Thanks for the replies. I don't know why I want him, it bothers me that I think this way too. I just miss him. I have been feeling really empty and alone lately. No matter how much of an ******* he was, I did genuinely love him. He was there for me anytime I needed him. It's just so hard to understand how this caring person could be so harmful to me and potentially abusive. I also feel like the fact that I dumped him because he was *potentially* abusive is screwing with my head. What if he never hit me? And what if I deserved it? I have been passive aggressive in relationships before and the same thing has happened...with the guy shaking my arms to prevent my from leaving, or to get me to talk. And I keep having these thoughts that I have made a mistake...and that I am not so innocent either.
DollyGirl12 Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 I remember your posts. He could be narcissistic, you never know. Most narcissists need "supply" and when they are not getting the supply they crave (someone who dotes over them, validates them, and so on) they will find it elsewhere. Many times they try to keep an ex on the back burner when their fresh supply has worn tired of them. No, not all come back. My ex, who I am sure is narcissistic, I highly doubt will ever think of coming back. As vsmini noted, you shattered his ego. I call it causing "narcissistic injury". I intentionally called my ex out on every single one of his bad behaviors. They were things he would NEVER want people to know. So that is why I am sure I will never hear from him again. We are not dealing with the normal person who goes out of their way to try to honestly fix things when they've done something to hurt someone. We are talking about people who run away and never look back. If they do look back they will find a way to turn it all around on you. DO NOT ALLOW WHAT HE DOES OR HOW HE BEHAVES TO MAKE YOU FEEL BADLY ABOUT YOURSELF!!!! Unfortunately the next person he does this to will also probably be asking the very same questions.
dispatch3d Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 nothing in that paragraph really indicates narcissism. You describe him as potentially physically abusive, and probably a little insecure (that's what I would read the control thing as, he's scared you would cheat - probably because he did cheat. And by little he sounds very insecure). he also makes some pretty wonky rationalizations - like I'm going to punch a wall once in a while it's not a big deal. Lol uhhh I wouldn't be friends with him.
Author That_girl Posted May 11, 2011 Author Posted May 11, 2011 nothing in that paragraph really indicates narcissism. You describe him as potentially physically abusive, and probably a little insecure (that's what I would read the control thing as, he's scared you would cheat - probably because he did cheat. And by little he sounds very insecure). he also makes some pretty wonky rationalizations - like I'm going to punch a wall once in a while it's not a big deal. Lol uhhh I wouldn't be friends with him. Yeha I guess I wanted to diagnose him with something because it helps me to understand why I left him, and also makes it easier to stick to the decision. I'm often in denial a lot of the time about whether or not he abused me. And I think about going back to him at times too...the literature is really helping to keep me away. It's just easier to lay the blame on him than to actually deal with where I went wrong This may sound TERRIBLE. But I'm still having trouble admitting to myself that he has the potential for physical abuse. He shook my arms a few times, but never left bruises. If one of my female friends did that I would never even think of labelling it physical abuse. Also he has smacked poles and punched walls around me, but I've seen my brother do that many times and he has never laid a hand on me either. I don't know....I just wanted to be able to move past the cheating thing. It was only once, at the very begginning and it was a mistake. He says he didnt sleep with this person, they just fooled around. I wish that I could have actually forgiven him for that from the start. But I couldn't let it go. I feel like that says more about me than him. My shrink said that it's much worse for someone to cheat after 20 years of marriage than after one month, and I agree with that. But I also felt like the cheating showed that he is weak willed and has a tendency to act impulsively without considering the feelings of others. He even said that one of the reasons he did it was because he wasn't convinced that I cared about him as much as he cared about me at the time. I know this sounds crazy, like I'm blaming myself.....are these even normal thoughts?
dispatch3d Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Yeha I guess I wanted to diagnose him with something because it helps me to understand why I left him, and also makes it easier to stick to the decision. I'm often in denial a lot of the time about whether or not he abused me. And I think about going back to him at times too...the literature is really helping to keep me away. It's just easier to lay the blame on him than to actually deal with where I went wrong This may sound TERRIBLE. But I'm still having trouble admitting to myself that he has the potential for physical abuse. He shook my arms a few times, but never left bruises. If one of my female friends did that I would never even think of labelling it physical abuse. Also he has smacked poles and punched walls around me, but I've seen my brother do that many times and he has never laid a hand on me either. I don't know....I just wanted to be able to move past the cheating thing. It was only once, at the very begginning and it was a mistake. He says he didnt sleep with this person, they just fooled around. I wish that I could have actually forgiven him for that from the start. But I couldn't let it go. I feel like that says more about me than him. My shrink said that it's much worse for someone to cheat after 20 years of marriage than after one month, and I agree with that. But I also felt like the cheating showed that he is weak willed and has a tendency to act impulsively without considering the feelings of others. He even said that one of the reasons he did it was because he wasn't convinced that I cared about him as much as he cared about me at the time. I know this sounds crazy, like I'm blaming myself.....are these even normal thoughts? I think you should just cut ties and move on to other things. Why waste all your time thinking about a crazy ex. Everyone's got one crazy story in their back pocket. I guess this guy is yours ;-).
Author That_girl Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 I think you should just cut ties and move on to other things. Why waste all your time thinking about a crazy ex. Everyone's got one crazy story in their back pocket. I guess this guy is yours ;-). Yeah I guess. I think about it because it's only been a month and a half since we split and I still have feelings for him. But eventually that will fade. I'm also having a hard time accepting that what he did was "abuse" and that he not good for me. I just hope I get to the point where I finally realize these things without hesitation, and not regret.
Taramere Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 My shrink said that it's much worse for someone to cheat after 20 years of marriage than after one month, and I agree with that. But I also felt like the cheating showed that he is weak willed and has a tendency to act impulsively without considering the feelings of others. He even said that one of the reasons he did it was because he wasn't convinced that I cared about him as much as he cared about me at the time. I know this sounds crazy, like I'm blaming myself.....are these even normal thoughts? The two questions that seem to be continually troubling you... 1. Could his behaviour be defined as abusive? 2. Were you in some way to blame for it? I think abuse is generally defined as any behaviour which intentionally harms another living creature. A lot of people out there behave fairly abusively in the course of conflict or under stress. That doesn't make it right...but a person's pretty lucky to go through life never encountering anybody who behaves abusively. On the scale of violent behaviour, what you've described from him is fairly low down....but it still has elements of violence about it which not surprisingly caused you stress and anxiety. Especially if it triggered memories of childhood difficulties (which, I'm reading between the lines so please correct me if I'm wrong, it appears to have done). In some cases, that kind of behaviour could be very destructive. Would be be able to stop himself from slamming walls and shaking a baby if he were angry? As for whether he has a personality disorder. I'm not all that sure what that even means, beyond providing an income and a raison d'être for therapists. In a civilised society people are expected to control their aggressive urges during stress and conflict, by refraining from behaving in a violent, vindictive or self destructive way. Generally, we're expected to act with due regard to the likely consequences. Not everybody manages it very well. Some handle it so badly that they get labelled as having personality disorders...but maybe sometimes it's circumstantial. For example if they've experienced too much stress and conflict in a short space of time. Your ex responds aggressively to conflict. Some people might be able to shrug it off, but for you, it's unacceptable because it's a real anxiety trigger...and that seems fair enough to me. I wouldn't want to deal with what you've described either. I don't think it's unusual or over-reactive, nor do I think the fact that you are in conflict with somebody entitles them to behave in that way. So I don't believe you should blame yourself. As to him cheating because he felt insecure....well, if that's how he deals with insecurity it doesn't bode too well for any of his future relationships. In some cases you might be able to help somebody manage their behaviour during conflict, or you might learn to recognise the signs so that you back off from the conflict before it reaches that violent stage. Attend diligently to their ego and insecurities to prevent them from cheating...but how far do you go with that kind of "helping" behaviour before you start turning into somebody's mother, therapist or enabler ("he can't control his temper....we must take extra care not to provoke him....")?
CambridgeGirl Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I dated a dangerously clever sociopath a few years ago, it took me months to get rid of him and eventually needed police warnings. He harassed me to the point that I wasn't sleeping and would have panic attacks when he sent nasty mental texts at 2am. He never hit me either, but he slammed and threw things around me, drove dangerously when in a rage (often) and therefore wanted me to know that he was capable of harm. I look back and half the time are shocked that I got so trapped in stuff with him, but it was a wearing down of morale and esteem over time. He would convince me I was mad, would lie and twist things and was a big fan of NLP. Google that bad boy. I was mentally abused, clearly, but was only able to admit it after I escaped. I have never had a relationship with a man since and I am hesitant in making friends or believing anyone likes me. I am very aware of the effect he had on me, but I cannot undo it now. I have never said this before to anyone! Anyway I did a lot of research into what was happening to me at the time and immediately after. Note: Not every insecure man is a narcissist and not every narcissist is a mean calculating loser. It is very easy to bracket people. If however your guts tell you that you are being treated badly, they are invariably right. Take care of yourself and be very very careful with any man who ever shows you any aggression, it's simply never excusable. Ever, not ever never.
ladyinlimbo Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I previously dated someone who was a textbook classic narcissist (Narcissistic personality disorder) so your post caught my attention. It's difficult to tell from what you've written if he's a narcissist. If he is, however, you are well rid of him because they will never change, ever. They believe they are perfect and superior to everyone and that it's everyone else who has the issues. And no, narcs don't always try to get back with an ex. They generally only do when they're low on 'narcissistic supply'.....but if they're getting that supply (attention, validation, etc) elsewhere, they're not likely to return. It's creepy the way he intentionally sat there behind you at the park, though. Perhaps just trying to get a reaction out of you....either there or later. Don't give him any 'supply.' Just thank God that you left and haven't gone back. Take it from someone who got sucked in many times and 'went back' because of all of their bogus promises, that you only feel worse about yourself each time you go back and then inevitably leave again. You just end up hurting more, feeling a much more deep sense of emptiness and deteriorating self-esteem. They get a real 'high' and kick out of having an ex return to them; a total power trip for them. Don't feed the emotional vampire.
makelemonade1974 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Also, the moment you stop reading up on narcissists, the moment you'll know you're free of him. Who cares what he is or why he does the things that he does? He's not good for you (or anyone really.) Let him go and find someone who is. Yeah, I've done this myself. My ex and I are both academics and one of the first things people notice about him is how much he brags about his accomplishment. He's also one of the most difficult men I've ever met and at the same time I loved him (love him - probably for a long time) more than any man I've ever been with. I was totally devastated when he dumped me in the cruelest way imaginable. He seemed like a textbook narcissist. Turned off the emotions like a switch. I spent all this time reading up on NPD and going over every detail of the relationship - every crime he committed, every conversation. Then I started to look in the mirror. Have you heard of projection? My ex and I are a lot alike. I'm just as narcissistic as he is, although more empathetic I think. The point is, labeling him NPD was just my own way of making sense of things - how could ANYONE not want to be with ME? They must be CRAZY! That was the answer! No, it's not. Yes, our relationship was dysfunctional, but obsessing about NPD was not helping me heal from his emotional abuse. I finally realized that I could play the victim card all day long, but I had to realize that there were two people in our relationship. Everyone has narcissistic qualities - it's a healthy thing most of the time. Less than 5% of the population has true NPD. Not everyone who cheats or behaves badly is narcissistic. Some of them are just plain stupid. My point is - just like Daphne - that once you let go of the idea of his personality disorder as some sort of EXPLANATION for your breakup, the better off you will be. Good luck - I would take mine back in a heartbeat. With conditions. But I've come a long way in the past 8 months and I'm not the same naive girl I was when I was involved with him. Edited May 14, 2011 by makelemonade1974
ladyinlimbo Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Less than 5% of the population has true NPD. Not really sure how accurate that is. I think it would be very difficult to accurately determine what % of the population has NPD because I'd venture to guess that most aren't even diagnosed. It makes sense, due to the nature of the disorder, that very few people w/ NPD are going to actually seek psychiatric assessment and be diagnosed as a result. Due to the nature of the disorder, those w/ NPD don't feel there is anything wrong with them; it's everyone else who has the problem. The very vast majority wouldn't dare step foot into the office of a psychiatrist/clinical psychologist because what for? They're perfect. So there it goes, they go undiagnosed and based on this, it's really not possible to say with any accuracy just what % of the population has this.
makelemonade1974 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 @Lady - I read that somewhere - that so few people truly have the disorder that at least you know you aren't going to run into it very often. However, I think in certain professions it is much more prevalent - actors / actresses / musicians / artists / academics / etc. IMO. I just wanted to share that dwelling on what was wrong with my ex rather than what was wrong with me just made things worse and inhibited my healing process. The OP's ex may indeed have NPD, and I'm pretty sure my ex has it as well, my point is just that you have to acknowledge you were involved with that sort of person and then just let it all go in order to move on. The only thing you can change is you.
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