My marriage is over; Trying to make a plan

[change]

My wife has decided after much conversation with her therapist, whom she seems to love desperately, that when we met, we were two "half people" clinging to each other trying to make one "whole person." My wife now feels that we need to go our own ways for a long time in order to "individuate." She is also too angry and resentful right now to work on anything with me other than being best friends. Her IC has brought up all kinds of anger in her at me for things that, in some cases, aren't even real. I'm not sure what to do with that right now.

 

So... she ended the three month trial separation that she herself had called for. One week into it.

 

She also said a lot about it being tragic that we met when we were so young and that we had something really special that we weren't ready for. She doesn't know what the future will hold for us.

 

We sat together on the ground during much of this conversation and held hands. We cried a lot together. It was torturous. At one point she grabbed both of my hands and looked me in the eye and told me that I would be happy again -- that we would both be happy again.

 

My marriage is over.

 

I have a number of different thoughts and directions I'm trying to figure out all at once:

 

(1) She wants to start talking about finances and filing papers in the next few weeks. I feel like it would be best for us to go through a period of NC for a couple months first, followed by some mediation or counseling. I'm in no fit state to not cave and give her whatever she wants. She is also suddenly very resentful about our finances (she was the primary breadwinner), and seems to feel that I "owe" her lots of things which in reality were joint decisions during the marriage. She cares about me, but she's in no place to give me a fair deal either. Has anyone done this? Refused to start the process without a cooling off period? I'm not doing it hoping she'll go back on the decision. I truly think it will get very ugly if we don't, and our friendship matters to both of us. I haven't proposed this yet.

 

(2) I moved into a TINY, TINY room someplace nearby and signed a three month lease for the duration of the separation. I cleaned up the house for her, took our photos down for her and did everything I could to show that I was being supportive of the personal journey and development she wanted. Then she sprung on me that the separation was over just as we were exchanging keys. She moved a couch she'd bought in. She's VERY settled there and now is calling it her home. This was not agreed on and the context in which I decided to move out of the house we rent was VERY different than what's happening. I don't know what to do. I've considered sitting down and telling her that I'm miserable in my little closet and that I want the house back. I made the decision under decidedly different circumstances. She wants it over... she should have to start over. But I like knowing that she's settled and happy. It's killing me. Thoughts?

 

(3) In terms of books like Divorce Remedy and whatnot... I still don't believe that our relationship is "over, over." There's such intense hurt and anger that my wife is working through. It's all so fresh. And she wants to work through it and come out on the other side because she says that I'm such an important part of her life and that won't change. She also still expressed that she felt like our marriage was living out a fantasy as she waited for me to get better -- and she doesn't believe or trust that that will ever happen, even though it is right in front of her face. I know I need to show her healthy behavior consistently for a long time before she's going to see that the husband that she thought "died" has come back. The few times in the last month that she's truly seen that, she's wanted to work on things. Then the walls come back up. I still haven't given up hope that the walls will come back down as we're working on reclaiming our best friendship, which was always the bedrock of our marriage. I don't know how to do this without being walked on; there's a line between modeling great spouse behavior and being a doormat to someone that's very angry and feels you "owe" them things. I don't know where that line is?

 

I know this is a long post, but I need feedback and help. I hope someone out there has some suggestions.

 

Clearly, letting her have the house was probably a mistake. And maybe trying to be friends right now is a mistake, too, because she gets all the comfort she wants and everything she wants from me (the ability to talk through problems with her work, for instance). But she doesn't have to have her husband back. Now she's comfortable and not afraid. I'm also thinking she's losing respect for me. Again... help?

[PegNosePete]

That shrink sounds like a complete jackass.

"Individuate" I've never heard such a stupid word.

But, it seems that with his "help" or on her own, she has come to the conclusion that your marriage is over. And unfortunately, it takes two to make a marriage but only one to end it.

 

Dude you need to grow a backbone and stop letting your wife rule.

Don't be a doormat and don't let her have her way.

F*CK the friendship man. She is your wife FFS. Why the hell would you accept a demotion to "friend"? If she is not prepared to act like a wife then she will become an EX-wife and everyone knows that EX-wives are NOT your friend.

 

Move back into your home. It's your home just as much as it is hers. If she tells you that you can't, tell her to blow it out her ass.

 

Do the 180 and file for divorce. Oh and see a solicitor (UK) or attorney (US)

[John Michael Kane]

That shrink sounds like a complete jackass.

"Individuate" I've never heard such a stupid word.

But, it seems that with his "help" or on her own, she has come to the conclusion that your marriage is over. And unfortunately, it takes two to make a marriage but only one to end it.

 

Dude you need to grow a backbone and stop letting your wife rule.

Don't be a doormat and don't let her have her way.

F*CK the friendship man. She is your wife FFS. Why the hell would you accept a demotion to "friend"? If she is not prepared to act like a wife then she will become an EX-wife and everyone knows that EX-wives are NOT your friend.

 

Move back into your home. It's your home just as much as it is hers. If she tells you that you can't, tell her to blow it out her ass.

 

Do the 180 and file for divorce. Oh and see a solicitor (UK) or attorney (US)

 

And your wife is doing this because most likely she's seeing another man. That's why you don't leave your house because women like this pull this type of crap then want to talk about how they're not in love no more.

[change]

She's dating now. She's not in a relationship yet, but I don't doubt that she may be soon.

 

There was no infidelity prior to the separation. There was a sexless marriage, which was entirely my fault and my doing.

[PegNosePete]

Well if she is already dating then your marriage is as dead as a dodo. Move back in, see a solicitor ASAP, file for divorce and show her the consequences of her actions. Shock and awe her.

[vsmini]

She's dating now. She's not in a relationship yet, but I don't doubt that she may be soon.

 

There was no infidelity prior to the separation. There was a sexless marriage, which was entirely my fault and my doing.

 

 

She's dating????? That's healthy. I would never date someone who hasn't even filed papers yet. So...she's leaving the marriage to get to know herself better and become an individual and dating?

 

Homegirl sounds impatient and confused and she's going to end up the same situation that she's in now if she jumps into another relationship so soon. I haven't even hit 30 yet and I know that.

[change]

New plan that I just thought of today:

 

I have the ability to move back into our house that we rent.

 

We ARE still married. We made a commitment to one another that neither of us intended to break. We've talked about how hard it was for her to decide to break our vows.

 

Well, I'm making the changes she needed me to make. I'm putting in the work.

 

Now she feels obligated to give it another try and is angry because she doesn't want to do it.

 

Well, who cares? Marriage is a commitment for better or for worse. I think I might just move back in and announce that I'm working on the marriage. And that she DOES owe us another chance.

 

She doesn't have to like it, but marriage is a contract, and if there's a way to reconcile, she DOES owe it to us and to me to try. She owes it a number of months of seeing if we can make it work now that I'm putting the work in. I don't give a rats a** if it's one sided and I'm doing all the work. She just needs to put in an appearance and attend MC again.

 

I may have not been a pillar of strength in our marriage and I may never have been one for self-respect or bold moves before. Maybe it's time I change that and respect myself and respect our marriage. I'm worth it. I still believe that she is worth it.

 

It's such a drastic change in behavior from me that I have no idea what she'd do in response. I can't even visualize it.

 

Yas, I'd particularly love to hear your viewpoint on this, because I think you've been trying to encourage me to grow a backbone this entire time. And DOT and soserious1, because you both may best be able to describe how you'd respond if you were in similar situations.

[dreamingoftigers]

Backbone required, absolutely.

 

I am getting back In the game here and my h is home from treatment on Wednesday so I can tell you all of the things that he is flopping at so you can avoid them too.

 

But on a more serious note, yes DO NOT let her push you around, but do not make a show of it to prove you've changed etc.

 

3 books:

 

How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About it

When Mars and Venus Collide (usually I find John Gray a bit of a wuss, but this book really impressed me)

And if course the gold standard: The Divorce Remedy

 

Get started, ass in gear. Onwards!

[change]

Backbone required, absolutely.

 

I am getting back In the game here and my h is home from treatment on Wednesday so I can tell you all of the things that he is flopping at so you can avoid them too.

 

But on a more serious note, yes DO NOT let her push you around, but do not make a show of it to prove you've changed etc.

 

3 books:

 

How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About it

When Mars and Venus Collide (usually I find John Gray a bit of a wuss, but this book really impressed me)

And if course the gold standard: The Divorce Remedy

 

Get started, ass in gear. Onwards!

 

Ass in gear. Absolutely.

 

The Divorce Remedy is great, but I have trouble applying some concepts because we're physically separated and I gave her back our home.

 

I haven't looked at the other two books before. I'll look them up on Amazon now. Do you think that they're helpful even when both parties are separated?

 

I'm glad to hear you're back -- and hopefully feeling much better, DOT! How are you feeling about your H coming back home?

[Steadfast]

Respect will be earned when you take your power back. And no, that doesn't mean you have to be an a-hole about it. Just be confident and unafraid.

 

When she comes unhinged (and she will) you'll have the best chance to show her your 'change'. No matter what she does or threatens, look at her and calmly say 'You're beautiful when you are mad'. Then smile and leave the room.

 

Get yours balls out of her purse and reattach. Do every good deed with no manipulation and expect nothing. Just be there. Let her learn to trust you.

 

Good luck friend. At the very least, you'll be a better person after all of this.

[dreamingoftigers]

Respect will be earned when you take your power back. And no, that doesn't mean you have to be an a-hole about it. Just be confident and unafraid.

 

When she comes unhinged (and she will) you'll have the best chance to show her your 'change'. No matter what she does or threatens, look at her and calmly say 'You're beautiful when you are mad'. Then smile and leave the room.

 

Get yours balls out of her purse and reattach. Do every good deed with no manipulation and expect nothing. Just be there. Let her learn to trust you.

 

Good luck friend. At the very least, you'll be a better person after all of this.

 

As for taking your power back. Yes. But never, ever use that line. As in EVER. that line is shaming, dissmissive and frustrating.

 

Rob1971 (spelling?) has mastered the art of the 180 and managed to bring his wife back after a "not in love with you" speech.

 

Your main goal is not to show her that you will ignore her and dismiss her, you main goal us to get a life for yourself and not let any of her mood swings manipulate you.

 

You pick whether to go home or not and then support her choices from there. As in: if she wants to separate and date, you say "whatever makes you happy, best if luck." but you don't wait in the wings and put your life on hold.

 

180 last resort technique. Google it.

[Steadfast]

No matter what she does or threatens, look at her and calmly say 'You're beautiful when you are mad'

 

...never, ever use that line. As in EVER. that line is shaming, dissmissive and frustrating.

 

The ex already clued me in DOT...once, many years ago. I fired that off and she replied "Really? Well I'm about to get f-ing gorgeous then"

 

 

Seriously, my objective was to deactivate a potentially disruptive argument with a bit of twisted humor, but I wouldn't want to cause a setback. The idea is not to react the way she expects, or you might have before.

 

Carry on-

[PegNosePete]

I have the ability to move back into our house that we rent.

Hmm if you're only renting, it's not an asset that would be split on divorce, so it's not such a big issue. Presumably she is paying the rent?

 

We ARE still married. We made a commitment to one another that neither of us intended to break. We've talked about how hard it was for her to decide to break our vows.

Well the fact is she broke them so it doesn't matter how hard it was or how committed you are. SHE does not want to be married to you dude. Why on earth do you want to be married to someone who does not want the same? That is no life. That is being a prisoner.

 

Now she feels obligated to give it another try and is angry because she doesn't want to do it.

Seriously dude WTF? You want to be married to someone who does not love you but feels OBLIGATED to stay with you?? Man this is a SH*TTY relationship. You should NEVER be with someone unless they WANT to be with you.

 

Well, who cares? Marriage is a commitment for better or for worse. I think I might just move back in and announce that I'm working on the marriage. And that she DOES owe us another chance.

Well you can work on it as much as you like. But if she doesn't work on it then it's doomed. It doesn't matter if you tell her she owes you another chance. She will either choose to try again or choose not to. And she has already chosen not to, so what are you going to do? You are King Canute sitting there in front of the tide refusing to open your eyes.

 

She doesn't have to like it, but marriage is a contract, and if there's a way to reconcile, she DOES owe it to us and to me to try. She owes it a number of months of seeing if we can make it work now that I'm putting the work in. I don't give a rats a** if it's one sided and I'm doing all the work. She just needs to put in an appearance and attend MC again.

Dude you cannot force someone to do something they do not want to do. I can say my ex wife owes me an apology for her behaviour but I am not holding my breath because I know it's never going to happen. So what can you do? Dude you're smashing your head against a brick wall.

 

Maybe it's time I change that and respect myself ... I'm worth it.

Absolutely. You should respect yourself. Be a better person so that your next relationship will not go the same way as this one.

[dreamingoftigers]

The ex already clued me in DOT...once, many years ago. I fired that off and she replied "Really? Well I'm about to get f-ing gorgeous then"

 

 

Seriously, my objective was to deactivate a potentially disruptive argument with a bit of twisted humor, but I wouldn't want to cause a setback. The idea is not to react the way she expects, or you might have before.

 

Carry on-

 

Sorry if I came down hard on the advice.

 

Typing on iPhone outside of a client's house and saw that and went "oh ****, Red Alert.":laugh:

 

Humor is one of those dismissing things men do to women in fights that sends them through the roof and suggests that you aren't listening or "don't get it."

 

OP the way that she isn't expecting you to react after all of this time is to listen (when she is behaving properly, not perfectly, but properly). And to reflect back to her what she is saying so that you understand it.

 

Steadfast is 100% right on changing your reaction to her.

[change]

Updating this thread.

 

Well, she's dating multiple men. And sleeping with at least one of them.

 

I can't begin to express how devastated the confirmation of this makes me. We haven't even signed any divorce papers yet. We haven't divided up assets. Nothing.

 

She expressed to a friend that she's afraid of being sucked back into a relationship with me, and has trouble talking to me because of it. Really? REALLY? Can't be that afraid, since she's clearly having such fun at the wake.

 

I... I'm sure I'll be posting on here again shortly.

[soserious1]

Updating this thread.

 

Well, she's dating multiple men. And sleeping with at least one of them.

 

I can't begin to express how devastated the confirmation of this makes me. We haven't even signed any divorce papers yet. We haven't divided up assets. Nothing.

 

She expressed to a friend that she's afraid of being sucked back into a relationship with me, and has trouble talking to me because of it. Really? REALLY? Can't be that afraid, since she's clearly having such fun at the wake.

 

I... I'm sure I'll be posting on here again shortly.

 

 

Look Change, by your own admission the marriage had been sexless for quite some time which was your preference. Your Ex has clearly stated that she's done with MC and has no intention of reconciling,there are no children. Of course she's dating, having sex, it's probably like being let loose at an all you can eat buffet after the deprivation and starvation that substituted for a sexual,intimate life during your marriage.

 

Go forward with your own new life, focus on your career, renewing old friendships, moving forward with completing your change and just let her go, the marriage is over.

[change]

Look Change, by your own admission the marriage had been sexless for quite some time which was your preference. Your Ex has clearly stated that she's done with MC and has no intention of reconciling,there are no children. Of course she's dating, having sex, it's probably like being let loose at an all you can eat buffet after the deprivation and starvation that substituted for a sexual,intimate life during your marriage.

 

Go forward with your own new life, focus on your career, renewing old friendships, moving forward with completing your change and just let her go, the marriage is over.

 

You may be right, ss.

 

I've realized over the last weeks that the marriage was sexless in the end (but not for the entire duration!) -- although not affectionless or totally lacking in physical intimacy EVER -- not only because of my actions, but because of hers as well. It was more of a two way street than I had originally seen. The idea that relationship problems are 100%/100% responsibility to both parties really rings true with me at this time.

 

I'm dropping the axe, because it served no purpose in the first place.

 

I don't know where we're headed. If she's angry with me for not letting go, which I believe she is... I don't know what I can do to assuage that.

 

I'm not chasing. I'm not begging. I'm not calling. I am still nice and caring, because that is my nature. Do I still love her? Yes. Can she rightfully be mad at me for that, especially when I don't express it to her? I guess she can. I guess that causes a "pull" that she feels from me, even if unexpressed.

 

I am privately tearful, but as gracefully as I can supporting her decisions and letting her go her own way.

 

Truly, the anger I see at this point is directed toward my positive changes. They make her step back and for brief moments, reconsider. I will not stop making the changes I'm making because they make her question her judgment. I'm making positive changes and she occasionally has to see them -- and that seems to equate to me not letting go, and starts the cycle of anger and pain all over again.

 

I want off this merry-go-round.

[dreamingoftigers]

Truly the health way to either letting her go or repairing things with her us the same path for you personally all the way up to signing the papers or reconciling. In my own marriage I am more convinced on that now then ever. You cannot "sell" someone a relationship, you can only advertise the most attractive package. It is going to depend on the strength of your changes and the strength of your history at this point. If she stays out of fear of what might be, it wouldn't be good anyways.

[HeavenOrHell]

Everyone usually jumps down the throat of the person who wants to split up but you only truly hear one side of the story, and the OP admits their marriage was mostly sexless and that it was mostly down to him, so she's going to look elsewhere, although she could have waited until it was 100% over, but in most dumper's cases the r/ship is over months before it actually happens, but still she could have waited.

I generally agree that the person who has given up and chooses to break up is the one who should move out and find somewhere else to live, unless there are kids involved.

 

 

>She also still expressed that she felt like our marriage was living out a fantasy as she waited for me to get better -- and she doesn't believe or trust that that will ever happen, even though it is right in front of her face. I know I need to show her healthy behavior consistently for a long time before she's going to see that the husband that she thought "died" has come back.<

 

Not sure what you mean by 'healthy' behaviour, but it shows you weren't perfect in this r/ship either, so I think people should stop just blaming your wife. People often write replies about break ups with bitterness thinking about their own situation, which doesn't really help the OP. My ex left me after 18 years as I neglected him, but I understand his reasons for leaving, we both tried to make it work and went for MC but it was too late/ R/ships can't always work out, people don't always stay compatible forever, and people grow and change.

I understand the need to individuate (yes it is a word!), partners can become co dependent on each other and unable to cope on their own, and it's not healthy, it doesn't necessarily mean couple a has to split up but it needs working through. Sometimes, sadly one partner will become so strong and independent that they will leave and start afresh, this happened in my case, he says I 'saved his life' (long story) and he got stronger and found confidence through being with me, and in the end he left.

I fell apart after he left for several months, but I moved on and we're still friends.

Good luck OP and sorry you are going through this

[JeatCubbece]

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[change]

Truly the health way to either letting her go or repairing things with her us the same path for you personally all the way up to signing the papers or reconciling. In my own marriage I am more convinced on that now then ever. You cannot "sell" someone a relationship, you can only advertise the most attractive package. It is going to depend on the strength of your changes and the strength of your history at this point. If she stays out of fear of what might be, it wouldn't be good anyways.

 

Yep. It does appear that is the case. She'll be afraid of being sucked back in and will limit all contact right up until the point when she decides there's truly nothing to be afraid of -- whether because she's involved seriously in another relationship, or because she sees that I've truly changed and going back wouldn't be "going back" but "moving forward."

 

Ugh. What a horrible situation.

 

How are you, DOT? I haven't seen anything on your own thread in a while. I've been concerned.

[John Michael Kane]

No matter how the marriage was she's cheating and tramping around with loads of men. You don't need someone like that and shouldering this will only hurt you more in the long run.

[reboot]

There was no infidelity prior to the separation.

 

Want to place a friendly wager on that?

[change]

Want to place a friendly wager on that?

 

I would bet anything on that regarding a PA. I'm not sure if she knows what an EA is -- and thus, I have no idea about such before separation.

 

The guys she is seeing now were all met after separation. I've confirmed this beyond a shadow of a doubt. It would all be easier in some ways for me to accept if it had started as an affair before we separated. ... I don't know why.

[Conscience]

I know how hard It can be, my wife was on my doorstep this morning crying how much she misses me! But you know what I've made myself a new life and I love it and put myself on a pedestal!!!

 

Its extremely hard and I almost lost my job and everything in the process! But time went on and I started to go to the gym and meet new people and made new friends etc Its doable but its long and painful Ive been personally working on this for 6 months and I'm just starting to feel better.... have new women in my life...

 

All that being said there is no good ways to do things but if she's seeing other men you should start seeing other ladies rule of thumb!!!