donnamaybe Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 I can fully understand where you are coming from but why fight it anymore. Cheating is so common in this day and age that I am shocked when people actually turn down the chance to do it. So your wife is going to some day cheat on you then. What a sad, sorry life to live.
dreamingoftigers Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 So your wife is going to some day cheat on you then. What a sad, sorry life to live. I was actually wondering if it might be the start of self-justification for cheating (i.e. "you are going to cheat on me eventually woman, that's why I did it first. I am sick of being the guy that gets burned by these nympho bitches.") The whole idea just reeks.
donnamaybe Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 I was actually wondering if it might be the start of self-justification for cheating (i.e. "you are going to cheat on me eventually woman, that's why I did it first. I am sick of being the guy that gets burned by these nympho bitches.") The whole idea just reeks. VERY good point DOT. And it could also be why he lets his friend off the hook for the same behavior for which he vilifies everyone else.
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 As I often am, I find myself horrified at the depth of woman hating that is revealed here. I'm thankful that I see very scant evidence of this kind of attitude among the many men in my real life. I'm not talking about you, Woggle. I know you've made progress. Still, your original premise is bogus. It's simply false. Yes, the capacity for true, altruistic forgiveness can be very powerful and can speak much about a person's (the forgiver's) character. Making the choice to forgive and maintaining that forgiveness shows tremendous strength, and is the opposite of being a "doormat." Also, knowing one's limitations in that regard and standing by them shows great strength. Strength is something that most of us find attractive. For the real haters here: if you choose to live in a world full of bottom-feeders, I guess that's up to you. You present yourselves as tremendously weak individuals, though. In fact, in the big world out there, "women" DO like men who treat us well - we like men who have good character, and who treat PEOPLE well. Men who are true to their word, to themselves, who are able to show love and care to others, who are able to admit their faults and to stand up for their own beliefs. I understand it's a lot easier to say "women like douches, or doormats." That way you can excuse yourselves for choosing to BE nothing more than a douche or a doormat, or some combination of the two (in fact, I think that the douche and the doormat are just different sides of the exact same coin - ways of being weak), and conveniently blame it on the women. Yep, there are women for you who will play that game with you. Sad. But, I'm happy for any of us who don't have to be on that dirty playground.
Author Woggle Posted May 10, 2011 Author Posted May 10, 2011 No way in hell am I thinking about cheating. I know I have a great woman but I can either let the ways of the world get to me or I can throw up my hands and be happy I have one of the few relationships not poisoned by it. I am choosing to do the latter. I know society is rotten and while I hate it I have no choice but to accept it. I have said that in no way do I condone what my friend is doing but when somebody who is as close to you as family starts doing wrong it is not as simple as just cutting them off. I have constantly told him he should just be single for a while until he gets his head on straight and I have even bought him some Playboys so he can pleasure himself until he is ready for a real relationship but he doesn't listen. He will crash and burn like 99% of people in affairs do and as much as it sickens me I will be there to catch him when he does because that is what friends do. Running away from home at 16 with no plan whatsoever is stupid as well but he looked out for me back then so I will return the favor and hope he screws his head back on straight soon.
betterdeal Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Well, once you've repaid the favour, you will be free to not be his emotional crutch in the future, right? You're the equivalent of the ex that some people bounce back to when things go tits up in their lives again. And again. And again...
dreamingoftigers Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 No way in hell am I thinking about cheating. I know I have a great woman but I can either let the ways of the world get to me or I can throw up my hands and be happy I have one of the few relationships not poisoned by it. I am choosing to do the latter. I know society is rotten and while I hate it I have no choice but to accept it. I have said that in no way do I condone what my friend is doing but when somebody who is as close to you as family starts doing wrong it is not as simple as just cutting them off. I have constantly told him he should just be single for a while until he gets his head on straight and I have even bought him some Playboys so he can pleasure himself until he is ready for a real relationship but he doesn't listen. He will crash and burn like 99% of people in affairs do and as much as it sickens me I will be there to catch him when he does because that is what friends do. Running away from home at 16 with no plan whatsoever is stupid as well but he looked out for me back then so I will return the favor and hope he screws his head back on straight soon. Good. :)
RecordProducer Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) Then why did you cheat? When you ask a woman who just told you her husband was good "Then why did you cheat?, you assume she cheated because he wasn't good - or should only had a justification for her cheating if he wasn't a good man. Maybe his dick was too small or he finished after 5 min in or he refused to lick her or did it badly. Maybe she is not attracted to him because he is not self-confident or he doesn't make any money or he is cheap or his breath stinks. I would NOT jump into a conclusion that being nice and sweet is per se sexy (or the opposite is per se sexy, as male shovinist want to attribute to women). Some guys just are smooth, charming, generous, cute, funny, good lovers... These are the things that make a woman wet. Edited May 11, 2011 by RecordProducer
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 When you ask a woman who just told you her husband was good "Then why did you cheat?, you assume she cheated because he wasn't good - or should only had a justification for her cheating if he wasn't a good man. Maybe his dick was too small or he finished after 5 min in or he refused to lick her or did it badly. Maybe she is not attracted to him because he is not self-confident or he doesn't make any money or he is cheap or his breath stinks. I would NOT jump into a conclusion that being nice and sweet is per se sexy (or the opposite is per se sexy, as male shovinist want to attribute to women). Some guys just are smooth, charming, generous, cute, funny, good lovers... These are the things that make a woman wet. If someone is going to cheat they should just break up, get a divorce, or ask for an open marriage/relationship. Cheating is wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It's the epitome of laziness.
RecordProducer Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) If someone is going to cheat they should just break up, get a divorce, or ask for an open marriage/relationship. Cheating is wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It's the epitome of laziness. 1. To whom do you owe the duty to be faithful? 2. Why should anyone care about your feeeings more than about their own if they feel betrayed by you in some way? I might be a little biased here but I was briefly married to a guy who was the king of sex during our dating phase due to certain drugs (not viagra), and as soon as we moved in together, the sex stopped and it never came back until we separated (I think he is again on those - illegal, by the way - drugs). I didn't cheat on him but I think I had a full right to do so. Not only that, but he was telling me it was me why he could not get it up for 3 years and I should go get someone else to relieve him of the financial obligation!!! This guy, if you ask me, deserves to get a video of me screwing young, hot guys (he is almost two decades my senior and I am a good-looking woman). I do empathize with men and I do apologize if I sound gender-biased, but this goes for both sides: if you torture your partner by showing him or her you don't care, you deserve to be cheated on. Edited May 11, 2011 by RecordProducer
Author Woggle Posted May 11, 2011 Author Posted May 11, 2011 1. To whom do you owe the duty to be faithful? 2. Why should anyone care about your feeeings more than about their own if they feel betrayed by you in some way? I might be a little biased here but I was briefly married to a guy who was the king of sex due to certain drugs (not viagra), and as soon as we moved in, the sex stopped and it never came back until we separated (I think he is again on those - illegal, by the way - drugs). I didn't cheat on him but I think I had a full right to do so. Not only that, but he was telling me it was me why he could not get it up for 3 years and I should go get someone else to relieve him of the financiasl obligation!!! This guy, if you ask me, deserves to get a video of me screing young, hot guys (he is almost two decadeas my senior and I am a good-looking woman). I do empathize with men and I do apologize if I sound gender-biased, but this goes for both sides: if you torture your partner by showing him or her you don't care, you deserve to be cheated on. If a relationship is this bad then get out. Also most cheaters look for reasons or rather excuses. The woman my friend is screwing actually says her husband is abusing her by being too good to her and denying her the right to excitment.
Untouchable_Fire Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 Agreed. I was very taken aback by the strangeness of it. I certainly can't remember reading slews of posts by women on this forum claiming that they love their man because he's so good at taking their abuse, what a notion. Honestly Woggle I think you got triggered by Mother's Day. Did you talk to her yesterday? Woggle has a certain point in this thread that is undeniable. There is a concept out there in media and society that good men tend to be "long suffering". I've been around long enough to know that some women like to test your love by emotionally abusing you. It's popularized in movies and television.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 1. To whom do you owe the duty to be faithful? 2. Why should anyone care about your feeeings more than about their own if they feel betrayed by you in some way? I might be a little biased here but I was briefly married to a guy who was the king of sex during our dating phase due to certain drugs (not viagra), and as soon as we moved in together, the sex stopped and it never came back until we separated (I think he is again on those - illegal, by the way - drugs). I didn't cheat on him but I think I had a full right to do so. Not only that, but he was telling me it was me why he could not get it up for 3 years and I should go get someone else to relieve him of the financial obligation!!! This guy, if you ask me, deserves to get a video of me screwing young, hot guys (he is almost two decades my senior and I am a good-looking woman). I do empathize with men and I do apologize if I sound gender-biased, but this goes for both sides: if you torture your partner by showing him or her you don't care, you deserve to be cheated on. This is America, you have a full right to do whatever you want. However, cheating on someone is immature and lazy (I have to call a spade a spade). If you want to cheat that means the relationship isn't working anymore, which means you either work on the relationship or end it. It's fairly simple. A relationship isn't a game, it's a series of interactions between two people. Sometimes I fear for the future of the republic...
sanskrit Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 There is a concept out there in media and society that good men tend to be "long suffering". IME, the level of long suffering doesn't rise to the level of cheating or out and out abuse, but a dull throbbing pain of femaleness brought into the average man's life. To generalize, in our culture, minutiae just don't matter to men as much as women, yet being your natural male self about it will get you branded as a pushover or doormat. "He's tuned out," "He's in his man cave" (how f-cking insulting and condescending, if I ever condescended to you like that...). "He's not assertive enough, I need a man who takes control and takes the lead more." BULLSH-T You want a man who will engage you in an endless stream of babble about inconsequential minutiae. 9 of 10 times, I don't give a RAT'S ASS where or what we eat (movie we watch, party we go to, people we have over, etc., etc., etc.) The music and other people there are much more important. I've eaten thousands of meals and will eat thousands more with some luck, I know the next one is around the corner, so where we eat tonight is not even on my radar. If you want to make a "deal" of it, "I always pick, you pick," and then I say "OK we are going to eat ____," and then you start in with the "O... OK... if that's really what you want" passive aggressive BS, I want to STRANGLE you there on the spot for creating unnecessary drama and annoyance. I don't care what soap I use, what chapstick, the threadcount in my sheets, what kind of towels I use, the brand names of trivial household goods that are indistinguishable to men but due to female volubility, seem to have some sacred level of importance. "O, Honey, I thought I was clear that I needed the Mountain Fresh Gain as opposed to the Mountain Breeze Gain.":sick: I don't care to have a 45 minute manipulative quasi argument about "what I'm thinking right now," or whether I was being "dismissive" when I said I had to hang up the phone at work. Only an idiot can't understand that people have to hang up the phone at work sometimes... it's not a topic for any kind of meaningful conversation. If you have a certain irrational preference about how to load a dishwasher, do laundry, vacuum a carpet, clean a tub, then YOU DO THOSE THINGS, don't supervise or criticize my efforts, and if you reload the dishwasher after I've loaded it, then guess what, I will never TOUCH that dishwasher again as long as we are together, and no I don't want to have a 45 minute talk about that either and I especially don't want to hear your lame rationalizations about how to accomplish basic tasks I've been doing on my own just fine for 40 years. I just don't care about little crap. I have real things to worry about and stressful things that actually require real skill that I have to do every day that you can't comprehend... but I'm sure you have some two cents about how a reverse triangular merger should be drafted too. I never "weigh in" on your work or expertise unless asked, yet somehow can't avoid your "Wisdom of Solomon" on a daily if not hourly basis. I don't care about what people I don't know are doing. I don't care what the royal family is doing or celebrities... I DON'T KNOW THEM, they are not a factor in my life... at all. I don't care about your opinions on things you have no experience with and know nothing about. I will certainly not burden you with streams of endless babble about things I don't have at least a baseline knowledge of. I am ignorant on many, many topics, and feel no need to hold forth on those topics, because unlike you, I am held accountable by others if I am perceived to be a braying hot air jackass. I read alot. A LOT. I am not ignoring you or being "distant" when I am reading. I don't pester you for attention when you are reading or busy with something, why do you feel like every second I am not paying attention to you is a reason to create drama? I don't like conflict and drama, I get PLENTY of that elsewhere every day of the world. When I refuse to argue or discuss minutiae with you, playfully trying to change the subject, how bout GETTING A CLUE for a change. You go on and on about communication this communication that, but communication to you only means me reading your mind and catering to your inscrutable feelings that shift like the sands (I would love to date, just once "the same woman" for more than three months... not gonna happen), not your having one shred of empathy or sensitivity EVER to my mood. The world is not all about you all the time. Yeah, I know a bit about "long suffering." Damn that felt good
carhill Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 A good man balances the 'abuse' he receives at the hands and mouth of his woman and decides whether that weight is balanced by the positives she brings into his life. If positive wins, he stays; if not, he leaves. Her perspective, her words and her actions are outside of his control. Accepting that removes one significant negative. I can share that, as a married man who did sincerely listen to and care about the minutiae of my exW's life, she was bored to tears with me. What drives women is the *desire* for their man to do those things and be those things. Her want and his refusal keeps her in the game. When he ignores her, she dumps her trash on chumps like I was for many years as a single man, the tampon, while still *desiring* the guy she's f*cking to listen to her. He's smart. He doesn't do that. I could've been a lot smarter in my marriage. Instead, I got mind-****ed twice, once by my exW and again by my affair partner. Game over. Someone else can have that stuff. I'm done.
donnamaybe Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Good grief, what kind of bytches do you guys hang out with?
carhill Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Ha, ha, only the bestest biatches will do! I returned my people-picker and bludgeoned to death the salesperson who sold it to me
Author Woggle Posted May 12, 2011 Author Posted May 12, 2011 A good man balances the 'abuse' he receives at the hands and mouth of his woman and decides whether that weight is balanced by the positives she brings into his life. If positive wins, he stays; if not, he leaves. Her perspective, her words and her actions are outside of his control. Accepting that removes one significant negative. I can share that, as a married man who did sincerely listen to and care about the minutiae of my exW's life, she was bored to tears with me. What drives women is the *desire* for their man to do those things and be those things. Her want and his refusal keeps her in the game. When he ignores her, she dumps her trash on chumps like I was for many years as a single man, the tampon, while still *desiring* the guy she's f*cking to listen to her. He's smart. He doesn't do that. I could've been a lot smarter in my marriage. Instead, I got mind-****ed twice, once by my exW and again by my affair partner. Game over. Someone else can have that stuff. I'm done. Is it really like this with women. In order to keep them attracted you have to lead them around like a donkey with a carrot stick? I am not saying all women are like this but it happens so much that I understand perfectly why my friend has chosen the path he has. I don't condone but for the first time in his life he has a woman that adores him as sick as that adoration might be. He went from having his girlfriends tell him all his faults and not finding him attractive at all to having a woman tell him that sex with him is so good it is like a religious experiences. I don't condone it but I very much understand how he got to this point.
Author Woggle Posted May 12, 2011 Author Posted May 12, 2011 Good grief, what kind of bytches do you guys hang out with? I don't hang out with them but I see this kind of thing so much that it has almost become cliche. I know some women take offense to men when we saw how we feel about these things but we are not making this stuff up. What women see as misogyny and woman bashing is simply us guys speaking about what we have witnessed and experienced. Be proud that you have nothing in common with these women.
donnamaybe Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 I don't hang out with them but I see this kind of thing so much that it has almost become cliche. I know some women take offense to men when we saw how we feel about these things but we are not making this stuff up. What women see as misogyny and woman bashing is simply us guys speaking about what we have witnessed and experienced. Be proud that you have nothing in common with these women. well, I suppose when you're the unlucky guy dealing with a happier like that, it feels universal, but I have met way more cool gals than bytches in my lifetime.g
sanskrit Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Good grief, what kind of bytches do you guys hang out with? All college graduates, most from average/normal family backgrounds, tendency towards an upper middle class socioeconomic background, almost all employed in high level above avg income jobs (a few making more money than me). In short, all look good on paper, act right for 2-4 months, then the same old crap... every time, while my treatment of them and attitude changes not one iota. 20 or so women dated for a month or more in my life. My prior rant was an amalgam of commonly repeated behavior throughout these relationships.
Stung Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Is it really like this with women. In order to keep them attracted you have to lead them around like a donkey with a carrot stick?. It was apparently like that for Carhill, unfortunately, but no, of course it is not always like that. Women are not all the same, relationships do not all have the same dynamic.
carhill Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Just like no one forces us to read or reply to threads here, no one forced me to pick and love the women I've chosen. Totally my responsibility. I've known a lot of really wonderful women in my life so I know my experiences are mere singular datapoints. As such datapoints they are valuable information about potential paths and experiences and incompatibilities. Should I happen upon an *unattached* wonderful woman, I'll be happy to report that datapoint here. Until then, I have some more beating to do on that people-picker
Author Woggle Posted May 12, 2011 Author Posted May 12, 2011 well, I suppose when you're the unlucky guy dealing with a happier like that, it feels universal, but I have met way more cool gals than bytches in my lifetime.g I am in a very happy marriage and I still see what other guys go through especially since I seem to be the one all my friends turn to since they want what I have. They want to know how I got it when sometimes it just feels like she fell out of the sky. I have become much better at not letting this affect my relationship though.
donnamaybe Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 I am in a very happy marriage and I still see what other guys go through especially since I seem to be the one all my friends turn to since they want what I have. They want to know how I got it when sometimes it just feels like she fell out of the sky. I have become much better at not letting this affect my relationship though. First of all, in my last post "happier" was supposed to be "harpie." Smart phone is smarter than me! lol Second, good Wiggle! You wouldn't"t want to risk losing that gem! Besides, you look so damn cute together.
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