fortyninethousand322 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Agreed, this if for both men and women. I have custody of a young family member since it is the responsible thing to do. This guy I was talking to found my responsibility to be a deal breaker. He was 27 year old college grad, with no job and could only bitch about how much he hated his parents. He lived at home. I gave him a chance but he didn't give me one because of my responsibility. Now isn't he a selfish shallow bitch as well or am I just stuck up for being 7 years younger than him and being more responsible then he finds attractive? This must be that little girl logic that I am stuck on, shrugs. Yeah he's a moron. The standard should be the same for both sexes. I think what's said in these types of threads should be taken with a grain of salt. The guys who are a little sore about the living at home thing feel as though they're being judged unfairly. For some guys who have never really had any luck with the women it feels as though this is just another thing keeping them from ever dating or having a relationship. This is the same with threads about how much a guy makes, how tall he is, what he does for a living and so on and so forth. Some guys just feel like the deck is stacked against them. Hence the sour grapes.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 No, I will pitch in to hire permanent, professional, high-quality care for her. Because I am an independent, self-reliant adult, I am getting myself into a better position all the time to be able to afford to do this. Personally, I think it's more loving to hire a highly trained, experienced professional to provide care than it is to do it myself. It would spare my mother's dignity, provide more stable and comprehensive care for her, and enable us to maintain the mother-daughter relationship that we know and like as it is. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I think it's great that you'd be able to afford to pay for "professional, high-quality care". Some people can't though. They make do with what they can afford, and if that means taking care of the relative themselves then so be it. Not everyone makes great money, especially when they're younger. Sometimes I think this is about socio-economics and not about independence.
Intricategirl Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I find it unattractive, but not because of it being a caregiver role, although that plays into it. My mom is dying. Not sick... dying. My sister moved into her house to take care of her. I live an hour away and took care of her and my two kids before my sister moved. Now, my sister is spending a lot of her time focusing on her on-off boyfriend. She's taking time off work because she's stressed about everything. She recognizes that long-term, he's probably not a good match anyway. When my aunt and uncle were living with my mom to help for several months, my sister found fault in everything they did. It's great that she dropped everything and moved to help my mom. Might be better if that's actually why she moved. Instead, I strongly suspect she moved because it was a fantastic excuse to ditch a life that wasn't working for her, and come back to her friends here. She had the job offer before she ever knew mom was sick. So mom gets a caregiver that's half there, and focused on what they want to do that evening rather than on what they need. My sister's boyfriend gets someone who's half there, because she feels guilty for leaving the important stuff to go do other things. My sister is the only one getting anything out of it, because she gets to tell herself that she's doing something to help. So, I respect the reasons for moving in if it's a sick family member (and I've skipped half this thread, but I didn't see the OP say he's taking care of anyone- in fact, it seemed he's doing a poor job at even taking care of himself). Taking care of a sick family member is a very noble thing to do, and has nothing but my full respect. But attractive? No. I don't want to date someone who is doing that, because they are not devoting their attention to anything fully. It's too easy for it to become an excuse. I'd prefer that such a person handle their family business and then find me, and it has nothing to do with not wanting any sort of difficult spots in the relationship and little to do with expecting to be the center of their universe. They have a legitimate reason, so why turn a reason into an excuse? With my own personal experiences, I would find their motivations for dating to be too poorly thought out to really give the relationship a chance. In other words, yeah, I have been there, know what's involved, and because of my experiences, there's no way I'd date someone in a similar situation.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I find it unattractive, but not because of it being a caregiver role, although that plays into it. My mom is dying. Not sick... dying. My sister moved into her house to take care of her. I live an hour away and took care of her and my two kids before my sister moved. Now, my sister is spending a lot of her time focusing on her on-off boyfriend. She's taking time off work because she's stressed about everything. She recognizes that long-term, he's probably not a good match anyway. When my aunt and uncle were living with my mom to help for several months, my sister found fault in everything they did. It's great that she dropped everything and moved to help my mom. Might be better if that's actually why she moved. Instead, I strongly suspect she moved because it was a fantastic excuse to ditch a life that wasn't working for her, and come back to her friends here. She had the job offer before she ever knew mom was sick. So mom gets a caregiver that's half there, and focused on what they want to do that evening rather than on what they need. My sister's boyfriend gets someone who's half there, because she feels guilty for leaving the important stuff to go do other things. My sister is the only one getting anything out of it, because she gets to tell herself that she's doing something to help. So, I respect the reasons for moving in if it's a sick family member (and I've skipped half this thread, but I didn't see the OP say he's taking care of anyone- in fact, it seemed he's doing a poor job at even taking care of himself). Taking care of a sick family member is a very noble thing to do, and has nothing but my full respect. But attractive? No. I don't want to date someone who is doing that, because they are not devoting their attention to anything fully. It's too easy for it to become an excuse. I'd prefer that such a person handle their family business and then find me, and it has nothing to do with not wanting any sort of difficult spots in the relationship and little to do with expecting to be the center of their universe. They have a legitimate reason, so why turn a reason into an excuse? With my own personal experiences, I would find their motivations for dating to be too poorly thought out to really give the relationship a chance. In other words, yeah, I have been there, know what's involved, and because of my experiences, there's no way I'd date someone in a similar situation. This is interesting and fairly accurate. Although sometimes things don't always work like that. Life is messy. Let's say you live at home and through some mundane every day task you meet a fantastic person that you like and click with. I think it's a little unrealistic to expect such a person to just say "hey, I think she's cool, I hope she's still single in a year when my life is finally perfect."
Ruby Slippers Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Different strokes for different folks I guess. I think it's great that you'd be able to afford to pay for "professional, high-quality care". Some people can't though. They make do with what they can afford, and if that means taking care of the relative themselves then so be it. Not everyone makes great money, especially when they're younger. Sometimes I think this is about socio-economics and not about independence. I spent most of my childhood in near poverty, and my sick grandma lived with us for a while, so I know what hell it is to be poor and to have to take care of a sick relative. I spent most of my teen years helping my mom take care of her, and it was a huge burden on both of us. But I saved money from babysitting and odd jobs all through my childhood, got a job the day I turned 16 working 40 hours a week while going to high school to save money for college, and put myself through college while always holding down a job. I did all this because I knew that I wanted a better life than the one I was born into. And I was willing to do all the hard work that required, and still am. And yes, I want to be with someone who shares those values and makes a great life for himself, not someone who just accepts his lot, even if he's deeply unsatisfied with that life.
orion1010 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 To me, if a guy live with his parents at 30, I would think he couldn't take care of himself let alone a serious relationship. I would think he would still have some growing up to do? If he worked fulltime, like worked his ass off and put all his money away for a goal like a house or something, I could respect that. Other than that.. I wouldn't be attracted to him. there has been talk of sick family members.. well that's a different story and would respect that but from the start of dating may be too much for me to take on. If already in relationship with someone, I would take it on because I loved them and would want to. It would all depend on the situation. Generally, I would walk away after knowing after first or second date.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I spent most of my childhood in near poverty, and my sick grandma lived with us for a while, so I know what hell it is to be poor and to have to take care of a sick relative. I spent most of my teen years helping my mom take care of her, and it was a huge burden on both of us. But I saved money from babysitting and odd jobs all through my childhood, got a job the day I turned 16 working 40 hours a week while going to high school to save money for college, and put myself through college while always holding down a job. I did all this because I knew that I wanted a better life than the one I was born into. And I was willing to do all the hard work that required, and still am. And yes, I want to be with someone who shares those values and makes a great life for himself, not someone who just accepts his lot, even if he's deeply unsatisfied with that life. That's fair. That's why I said "different strokes for different folks". There isn't an objective "right" way to do things. I know for a fact that I could never have worked 40 hours a week while in high school (or even college for that matter) and still keep my grades up, so hats off to you for being able to do so. Very impressive. I think people should always stick to people who share their values. That's the same no matter what. But, there's a difference between someone accepting their lot and someone who has to live at home temporarily (however we are defining "temporary") while working their way through a tough spot. And for the record I think the guys who have a hard time dating while they live at home have other issues preventing them from dating, beyond just living at home. Some of the guys I've seen posting are the ones who just have problems attracting women in general. The living situation is just one more issue on top of several others.
SmileFace Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Yeah he's a moron. I was merely being sarcastic in my post. He isn't a moron we are just not compatible. I don't expect someone to always be so accepting. Different strokes for different folks. However my living situation did make a difference to him. Which is fine with me. Some people just can't deal. It is ok that he wasn't ok with my resposibility but I should have the same option.
Intricategirl Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 This is interesting and fairly accurate. Although sometimes things don't always work like that. Life is messy. Let's say you live at home and through some mundane every day task you meet a fantastic person that you like and click with. I think it's a little unrealistic to expect such a person to just say "hey, I think she's cool, I hope she's still single in a year when my life is finally perfect." It's very unrealistic. And life is never perfect. But I think people should be aware of themselves enough to know when it's time to step out of the game. Right now, I'm not dating. There's not only my sick mom situation, but kids, a Master's degree, studying to go to law school, etc. I would love to find a nice guy that sees everything I've got going on in my life and decides he's up for the challenge anyway. And if such a guy pursued me and was really interested, I'd give it a shot. I have dated while my mom was sick (and realized that it was pretty unrealistic to do so). But I'm also pretty honest about it. It's a lot for a person to take on. I have no choice. But others do. And I have no intention of faulting them if they decide it's too much. Trust me, I feel like it's too much at least three times a day! So despite what I'd love to happen, I'm not chasing it right now. And that's where I think our understanding of the matter may differ. It's one thing to chase it, it's another for it to just happen. If I happen to accidentally fall in love, that's one thing. But to actively be trying to maintain a relationship that's going nowhere like my sister- that's a little harder for me to justify.
SmileFace Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I think people should always stick to people who share their values.. Exactly..........
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 It's very unrealistic. And life is never perfect. But I think people should be aware of themselves enough to know when it's time to step out of the game. Right now, I'm not dating. There's not only my sick mom situation, but kids, a Master's degree, studying to go to law school, etc. I would love to find a nice guy that sees everything I've got going on in my life and decides he's up for the challenge anyway. And if such a guy pursued me and was really interested, I'd give it a shot. I have dated while my mom was sick (and realized that it was pretty unrealistic to do so). But I'm also pretty honest about it. It's a lot for a person to take on. I have no choice. But others do. And I have no intention of faulting them if they decide it's too much. Trust me, I feel like it's too much at least three times a day! So despite what I'd love to happen, I'm not chasing it right now. And that's where I think our understanding of the matter may differ. It's one thing to chase it, it's another for it to just happen. If I happen to accidentally fall in love, that's one thing. But to actively be trying to maintain a relationship that's going nowhere like my sister- that's a little harder for me to justify. I completely agree with chasing vs. if it happens thing. The additional layer to this is the several guys (myself included) who live at home and who have never been in a relationship who are feeling frustrated. Granted I'm not taking care of a family member and have a plan to eventually move out as soon as I'm financially able (6-12 months hopefully). I'm only 23, but I can imagine someone older than me would be completely frustrated at being habitually single and willfully remaining so for the foreseeable future. Someone who's dated and had relationships and is taking a break from the field for a while is one thing, but continuing inexperience is totally different. I know I'd go insane.
sanskrit Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Amazing the faux credence given to an attitude that has been brainwashed into our culture in the last fifty years, is totally marketing driven, and has no pragmatic basis. Every year without a completely separate housing bill, completely separate utility bills, etc., is another year where student loans can be paid down faster, credit cards avoided, less borrowed in a mortgage. Not to mention the immense savings available to families who share automobiles. I'm not talking about those who have issues with disconnecting with their parents, as women in the thread have not distinguished them, merely said that a man at home at 30 is bad/red flag/deal killer regardless of situation. And I have a blunt question for the women who find this a red flag or even a deal-killer... do any of you think of yourselves as "green?" or aspiring towards a lesser ecological footprint lifestyle? If so how do you reconcile the completely contradictory concerns that a man rush out of the house at 22 and concerns that we overconsume natural resources as a culture? Or are you just "feelgood green" until the first instance it interferes with a conspicuous consumption lifestyle?
SmileFace Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Why should you care if you can carry on a healthy, fun, fulfilling relationship with him? . If he is living off his parants, I can not carry a fulfilling, healthy and definately not fun relationship with him, point blank. Do you live off of your parents?
radiodarcy Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 i guess it depends on the guy. my ex is in his 30's has lived with his parents for some time now and has no problem getting girls. i'm 35, dont' live with my folks and cant remember the last time i got asked out. i think it was like three years ago...
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Amazing the faux credence given to an attitude that has been brainwashed into our culture in the last fifty years, is totally marketing driven, and has no pragmatic basis. Every year without a completely separate housing bill, completely separate utility bills, etc., is another year where student loans can be paid down faster, credit cards avoided, less borrowed in a mortgage. Not to mention the immense savings available to families who share automobiles. I'm not talking about those who have issues with disconnecting with their parents, as women in the thread have not distinguished them, merely said that a man at home at 30 is bad/red flag/deal killer regardless of situation. And I have a blunt question for the women who find this a red flag or even a deal-killer... do any of you think of yourselves as "green?" or aspiring towards a lesser ecological footprint lifestyle? If so how do you reconcile the completely contradictory concerns that a man rush out of the house at 22 and concerns that we overconsume natural resources as a culture? Or are you just "feelgood green" until the first instance it interferes with a conspicuous consumption lifestyle? Why are ipods better than Zunes? Why are iMacs better than PCs? What is the difference? Culture, man. Culture. People go see movies like Date Movie and The 40 Year Old Virgin, and laugh at obese women and unlucky (in love) men. People buy McDonalds every day, and get fat. People don't talk to each other, or hug their children, and fear being called a pedophile, because everyone is being accused of being a pedophile. People assume that that loner is going to postal, despite him or her just wanting to be left alone, and being a nice and respectable human being otherwise. What makes an extrovert any better than an introvert? I've had this discussion on a Social Anxiety forum I post at, and the consensus is that the extroverts tend to be the ones who cause the problems. The introverts tend to just want to live their lives peacefully. I tend to agree. Why do people enjoy watching Dramas? I admit, I am a big fan of Brothers & Sisters (as evident by my signature), but I don't quite get Desperate Housewives; to me, it's little better than a soap opera. People get off on watching people's misery; to me, I just enjoy watching happiness come together. Last night's episode of Brothers, where they worked through their issues and there was a wedding and happiness, was a great episode. That's what I like to see, not people poisoning each other. I sometimes wonder if people are manipulative and spiteful by nature. I have seen this in my extended family, and honestly, I would love to marry into someone's else's family (that is much nicer than mine.) Are people rude by nature? Is this part of being human, since we're all imperfect? I dunno, I tend to think that we're an intelligent species, that care about each other and don't want others to suffer. But then we blow each other up and start wars. Perhaps we ARE all sheep, who are insensitive and uncaring and just march to the beat of everyone else's drummer (and those that march to their own, tend to get the short end of the stick.)
SmileFace Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Oh but you can just like you can be in a relationship of any type with anyone whether they live in a trailer park with their mother or a McMansion with servants. You simply don't want to due most likely to pride and prejudice. This is where you are getting confused. It isn't that he lives with his parents. It is the mind set of living off of somebody. Would you like to be with a women who was only with you for your money? No, I doubt that very much or maybe you would. Since it doesn't matter,right? Relationships do not work for people who have different values. That would be called settling,right? My ex was employed and lived on his own. He rented a room and was saving for a betterment. He had no car and we lived a great distance apart. The guy I mentioned in my other post lived in one of the best parts of town and had a car which his parents paid for. Who do you think I respected more? So yes, living arrangements matter. Your living arrangements are not irrelevant to the argument.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 If he is living off his parants, I can not carry a fulfilling, healthy and definately not fun relationship with him, point blank. Do you live off of your parents? Why? Are you afraid that mommy and daddy will lock you out of the house? If you have a mommy and daddy, will I be afraid to meet them, less they lock ME out of the house? And I'm using "mommy" and "daddy" in a sarcastic way, by the way.
Nexus One Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Oh for crying out loud women in this thread. Stop beating around the bush. You want a guy to have his own place so that you can have loud sex with him, THAT is what it's really about, the rest is all secondary.
SmileFace Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Oh for crying out loud women in this thread. Stop beating around the bush. You want a guy to have his own place so that you can have loud sex with him, THAT is what it's really about, the rest is all secondary. What the fck? Women don't like sex...don't you listen to Mr.Brady? Muse... I don't get it -_-
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Oh for crying out loud women in this thread. Stop beating around the bush. You want a guy to have his own place so that you can have loud sex with him, THAT is what it's really about, the rest is all secondary. This makes more sense than the "independent man" argument! This just proves that I need to go to church, and find a super religious woman who will wait until we're married to have sex. Then I don't have to worry about my virginity, or living at home, because she'll be more understanding. Damn all you atheists!
Dust Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Why? Are you afraid that mommy and daddy will lock you out of the house? If you have a mommy and daddy, will I be afraid to meet them, less they lock ME out of the house? And I'm using "mommy" and "daddy" in a sarcastic way, by the way. I think you’re to close to the issue to see it for what it is. Being that you live at home with family and have never had a relationship. You should just be happy with who you are and be the best you can be. Things are the way they are and getting frustrated over it won’t make it better. There are girls who date guys most women would consider losers, just be happy with that. On a side not I often find your posts angry.
SmileFace Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 <---------Amused This makes more sense than the "independent man" argument! This just proves that I need to go to church, and find a super religious woman who will wait until we're married to have sex. Then I don't have to worry about my virginity, or living at home, because she'll be more understanding. Damn all you atheists! I find this amusing The joys of being Agnositc
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Muse... I don't get it -_- My point is that if someone is independent, and living at home, and the only thing wrong with him is that he lives at home, he is not any less qualified to be your boyfriend than some drug abuser cheating bad boy who has his own place and lots of cash. Yes, I brought the nice guy argument in again. But there's no denying that a lot of "nice guy" still live with their parents. Like I said, it's a herd mentality. You won't date a guy who lives at home, because it's not culturally acceptable. There is no other reason for not dating someone who lives at home. He has no disease because he lives with his parents. If he's a caregiver, that means he is a responsible adult, and not a baby. If he has a job, that means he is a responsible adult. Admit it, the only two reasons that you won't date someone who lives at home is because A.) it's not culturally acceptable, and B.) because you want wild sex, and you don't want mummy and daddy to hear you.
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 This is where you are getting confused. It isn't that he lives with his parents. It is the mind set of living off of somebody. Would you like to be with a women who was only with you for your money? No, I doubt that very much or maybe you would. Since it doesn't matter,right? Relationships do not work for people who have different values. That would be called settling,right? My ex was employed and lived on his own. He rented a room and was saving for a betterment. He had no car and we lived a great distance apart. The guy I mentioned in my other post lived in one of the best parts of town and had a car which his parents paid for. Who do you think I respected more? So yes, living arrangements matter. Again the values thing is 100% right. The only thing I disagree with is the whole "living off of somebody" part, because I think that's a big assumption. Aside from food, a roof and utilities my parents don't provide much else for me. I pay for my own gas, paid for my own car, car insurance, cell phone bill, going out money, etc., I even pitch in a little extra to my parents to make ends meet. I wouldn't call me living at home being completely dependent on them.
SmileFace Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Again the values thing is 100% right. The only thing I disagree with is the whole "living off of somebody" part, because I think that's a big assumption. Aside from food, a roof and utilities my parents don't provide much else for me. I pay for my own gas, paid for my own car, car insurance, cell phone bill, going out money, etc., I even pitch in a little extra to my parents to make ends meet. I wouldn't call me living at home being completely dependent on them. This is different. I mean only if you are living off of them. Your situation is different. You are working and fend for yourself, I can respect that. I am not saying if you live at home , you live off of your parents. I am saying if you do, I just can't respect that.
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