TaraMaiden Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 Even more kudos to you, Tara, then. And about the "easy" thing... no, you didn't say that, but sometimes I get the impression that you think it is, because "you've done it". I'm obviously wrong. Oh it is easy, actually. AFTER the event.... During that time, it was tough. Let's be honest, it taught me huge amounts, and it was gut-wrenching at times...By no means an easy, stress-free ride.... My point is, you ("you" generic, not "you" specific) have to decide what you will stand for, and what you won't stand for. I just couldn't stand to think of a life half-lived. I felt I deserved more than that. I know there are no guarantees, and i know for me, things have turned out well. But it's been by virtue of dedication, hard work and refusing to accept half-measures. I didn't necessarily leave everything to chance, but I became more decisive, more determined and I sometimes refused to take things simply because, well, that's the way things were. You've probably heard the phrase, "You've made your bed, now lie in it." I'm afraid I thought, "stuff that, I'm going to make it again." I refused to be so laid back, and decided to pick my bed up and walk. It's been quite a trek, but worth the blisters.....
tranquility Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 Thank you TM and giotto ... Actually I have been in individual counseling since august, trying to deal with the many aspects of the unhappiness that I feel. I'm not positive how much of it is due to perimenopause, though the issues that we have existed throughout our marriage. I'm also dealing with a great deal of job dissatisfaction ... I teach high school biology to freshman and this is my 24th year. I'm totally burned out by this job. It just seems like over the last year or so I'm not able to ignore the things that I used to be able to let go. We've had 4 couples sessions so still have a long way to go. TM, I thank you for sharing your story and your viewpoint. You've given me a lot to think about, as have my counselor, mom and good friend. I know that in a lot of ways I may be "settling" ... but I guess I'm just not uncomfortable enough yet to do anything about it other than what I'm doing.
TaraMaiden Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 we've kind of steered the thread and transformed it into a journal of personal experiences. Apologies to the OP for that, but I hope they manage to glean something of use and relevance....
TaraMaiden Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 As I live and breathe, I promise you, this house right by the bridge, used to be my home.
giotto Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 well, doesn't look that big... and no room for a garden... although I'm sure you could fish right out of the window... And it's not in Italy...
TaraMaiden Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 You know what? I was fun. But it's been there for 500 years, and it will be there long after I'm gone (barring catastrophe or disaster....) So I look upon it as having looked after it for a while. weird as it may sound, I never really looked upon it as truly legitimately "all mine"..... Gosh this is so O/T.... Sorry, OP. Back to topic!
tnttim Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 Treat her like you were dating her and the sex will happen. Just try to have fun with the poor overworked women.
Scottdmw Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 Oh it is easy, actually. AFTER the event.... During that time, it was tough. Let's be honest, it taught me huge amounts, and it was gut-wrenching at times...By no means an easy, stress-free ride.... My point is, you ("you" generic, not "you" specific) have to decide what you will stand for, and what you won't stand for. I just couldn't stand to think of a life half-lived. I felt I deserved more than that. I know there are no guarantees, and i know for me, things have turned out well. But it's been by virtue of dedication, hard work and refusing to accept half-measures. I didn't necessarily leave everything to chance, but I became more decisive, more determined and I sometimes refused to take things simply because, well, that's the way things were. You've probably heard the phrase, "You've made your bed, now lie in it." I'm afraid I thought, "stuff that, I'm going to make it again." I refused to be so laid back, and decided to pick my bed up and walk. It's been quite a trek, but worth the blisters..... TM, perhaps it is true that the effects of your decision really were for the best, for you. However, pretty much all the studies I've read indicate that divorce is not good for kids. Some of them adapt and end up being okay, many of them have serious problems that last for a long time. People make the argument that kids are better off away from an unhappy marriage, but the data simply does not bear that out. Maybe it's true in your case, but odds are fair it will not be for someone else. Kids will usually put on the best face and try to convince you that they're fine with the situation. That doesn't mean it's true. Right now, it sounds like you have a very satisfying sex life with your new partner. Yet, the odds are fairly good that within a couple of years of your current relationship that will decrease again, as it does for many people. If that happens, will you leave your new partner too and continue to pull the roulette wheel in search of the next relationship high? Remember also that people have a strong tendency to justify their decisions either way. You have taken Tranquility to task for “settling”, implying she is convincing herself that she's making the right decision when maybe that's not true. You have suggested she needs counseling essentially because she's made a different decision than you did. Yet, when I hear people claim they are happier after divorce, the same thing comes to my mind. I think to myself, “This person doesn't really know if they are happier now than they would have been. However, they made an unchangeable, life altering decision that had a profound effect both on themselves and other people that they loved. Of course they are going to convince themselves it was right and justify the decision.” Even assuming divorce is for an individual's best, I think it's right and good to take into account everyone involved, and especially the children. I don't generally think that it is the right decision for adults to leave a reasonably good marriage in hopes of a better relationship somewhere else, given the potential damage it could do to that person's children. More or better sex for a couple years isn't worth it to me. I applaud Tranquility for considering the others in her life that way, and would encourage others in a similar position to do the same thing. TM, I don't mean to unduly criticize you or your choices, but I see you coming out pretty strongly against someone else's choices and I feel like there needs to be some balance to the discussion. Scott
yessy21 Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 TEll Her NO. she just uses it as a tool. thats not what a relationship is about... a relationship is about intimacy and communication. she doesnt communicate very well from what i have read. refuse her sex... and tell her that you dont want to be teased like that.
love4me2c Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 I never used sex as a tool against my husband. BUT - I can tell you that we had a lot of issues in our relationship. He was so mean to me that I couldn't even stand the thought of being intimate with him. I'm going to guess that she has similar feelings. You should just ask her! I found that my husband thought our issues were minor whereas I thought they were major. He was doling it out and I was on the receiving end. I bet you both have very different perceptions of your marriage. Don't let this go on too much longer or it may end your marriage.
participation Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 Same problem. Wife says it's low libido, like an illness or something. But this is the only illness where if she has it, I have to have it too. Like if she had cancer, I'd have to go out and get cancer too. I'm sick of the rejection. I'm sick of wasting my sexual energy as the days and years go by. I've tried a lot of different things, but nothing seems to work. Guess what, I find myself at the store. I know she likes M&M's. I don't buy them for her. I avoid her. Worst of all she's really good looking. It's like owning a Ferrari that you are not allowed to drive. I don't even like sleeping with her anymore. It's torture. It sucks big time. I deserve better and I am going out and getting it.
nordic Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 My guess is that the emotions came along with monogamy. If you are ONLY having sex with the person you love, then sex gets pretty closely tied to love. Probably monogamy complicates it unnecessarily i am living a life monogamy at all. and no, that does not make thins less complicated:-) you need to be a woman to come to that conclusion.
TaraMaiden Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 Same problem. Wife says it's low libido, like an illness or something. But this is the only illness where if she has it, I have to have it too. Like if she had cancer, I'd have to go out and get cancer too. I'm sick of the rejection. I'm sick of wasting my sexual energy as the days and years go by. I've tried a lot of different things, but nothing seems to work. Guess what, I find myself at the store. I know she likes M&M's. I don't buy them for her. I avoid her. Worst of all she's really good looking. It's like owning a Ferrari that you are not allowed to drive. I don't even like sleeping with her anymore. It's torture. It sucks big time. I deserve better and I am going out and getting it. This is extraordinarily hard-hitting to the point and bang on. It's also very sad. I hope that you, participation, can deal with this openly with her, rather than use subterfuge and deceit by going behind her back and cheating. While I completely sympathise with your stance, and can feel the bitterness you have come to see as justified, please be the "better man" and tell her you cannot do this any longer. But don't use deceit. It's beneath anyone to betray another, in this way.
Sparty97 Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 This is extraordinarily hard-hitting to the point and bang on. It's also very sad. I hope that you, participation, can deal with this openly with her, rather than use subterfuge and deceit by going behind her back and cheating. While I completely sympathise with your stance, and can feel the bitterness you have come to see as justified, please be the "better man" and tell her you cannot do this any longer. But don't use deceit. It's beneath anyone to betray another, in this way. I have to ask, if a wife (or husband for that matter) is refusing sex within the marriage how could it really be considered cheating to get it elsewhere? If a spouse refused to let you eat in the house would it be ok to get food elsewhere?
carhill Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 If the spouse is disclosed, e.g. (grossly simplified) told "I want sex. I'm not getting it here and am going to get it elsewhere", then it's not cheating. It may be inappropriate and hurtful, but it's not cheating. The spouse told such has information and a choice. With cheating there is no choice nor information because it is deceptive.
JamesM Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 It has been awhile since I have been on LS, but since my name was mentioned, I will give some advice....good or bad, Ultimatums work for the short term. They will bring sex because you have control, but when things return back to the usual, then so will sex. You want to be able to say no because you want to feel (or so it seems to me) that you have the power. and as long as you want what she won't give, then she has the power. When she sees that you don't need what she won't give, then you gain control and probably will gain some self respect back. When one partner refuses to participate in sex while at the same time expecting the other partner to remain faithful, then this is no different than if that one partner had an affair. Both are breaking the marital vow. And if it the refusal is because of a lack of love, then the refuser is condemning both to a life of misery by staying. What TM said about how she found an interest in sex when with a different guy....that is my ultimate fear. My wife has no interest in sex WITH ME and yet she has convinced herself that it is simply sex she does not like. My suggestion to the OP is to look beyond this trip and take control of your sex life. This means that you let her know subtly or not so subtly that she has a vow to maintain as you do. Personally, I have given my wife a number of ultimatums. And everyone has brought more sex in our marriage because she was afraid of losing me. Yet when that fear diminished, then she lost an interest in sex. Is the lack of interest a lack of love? Who knows. A few weeks ago when I told her that things will need to change, it brought about sex after a seven month drought, but as expected, her interest was short lived. But I meant what I said...for now we have children to raise but one day that priority will no longer be on my list. And then the question will be...is a marriage to her with no sex better than a marriage to someone else with sex? OP, ask yourself the question...is this marriage worth saving or will it end up being a waste of my life?
JamesM Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Hello JamesM. Lovely to see you again. Thank you. Same to you. And congratulations on your upcoming marriage if I read correctly. I wish I could say that my life is much improved but it is not. I still choose to live in a sexless marriage because I still love my wife and have some children to raise. Since we get along very well, then the children will take precedence. OP, ultimatums give a feeling of control, but the motivation to change for the person receiving them is fear. When my wife has a fear of losing me, then she suddenly wants to express her feelings with sex because she knows that I enjoy it. Unfortunately, that does not mean that she enjoys sex herself. Saying no to your wife may make her surprised and even may make her pursue you, but will it last once if this returns to normal? Oh, to be with a woman who enjoys sex. And even better, being with one who enjoys it and is expressing her love to me.
KR10N Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 This is why you don't get married. The difference between paying an escort and paying a wife is that paying an escort you are guaranteed sex for your money while paying a wife you are only only guaranteed to lose your money. It's funny that you say that. It just so happens that I know of a couple who have sex once or twice a month so the husband will be happy & the wife can go shopping. Marriages sound lame!
JamesM Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I have to ask, if a wife (or husband for that matter) is refusing sex within the marriage how could it really be considered cheating to get it elsewhere? If a spouse refused to let you eat in the house would it be ok to get food elsewhere? First obvious response is...you do not vow to eat only at home when you marry while you do vow to only have sex with your wife. Comparing sex with food is a stretch...although I have done it and can see your point. Second, just because one partner dishonors the marriage vow does not mean that the other partner has the right to do the same. However, it certainly motivates that person to have an affair but it does not give them the justification to do so. Third, refusing sex is not done secretly. It is done openly. Having an affair (ie cheating) is a secret. A better comparison would be to say that "if you refuse sex, then I will get it elsewhere." If a partner refuses to give sex, then he or she should be told that "this means sex is not important to you but it is to me, so I will find it somewhere else." Is it okay to murder my neighbor's wife if he murders mine?
giotto Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I wish I could say that my life is much improved but it is not. I still choose to live in a sexless marriage because I still love my wife and have some children to raise. Since we get along very well, then the children will take precedence. well, it looks like you are still in the same boat, as me...
JamesM Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 well, it looks like you are still in the same boat, as me... Indeed.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 To explain all the mistakes we've made......:laugh:
JamesM Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 To explain all the mistakes we've made......:laugh: Surely he will be back as I am sure he misses you as much as I did. Or perhaps he figures that a bunch of sexless grumpy old men never seem to wise up and take his advice.
giotto Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Surely he will be back as I am sure he misses you as much as I did. Or perhaps he figures that a bunch of sexless grumpy old men never seem to wise up and take his advice. we all waiting with bated breath... But, James, seven months? That's terrible...
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