l_lennar Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I have been lurking in this forum (and many others) for a few years trying to find some comfort or solace for my situation. Sorry if this ends up too long and rambling, but it is good to get it out. My wife and I have been married for 5 years and have a 7 month old child. I love my wife very much, but struggle to accept the current reality of our physical relationship. I feel like I am a good, patient and loving husband and father. I would consider the past 3 years of our marriage to have been sexless. If you subtract out the 3 months of trying to get pregnant we have had sex less than 15 times in two and a half years. My wife has very often, at least in my opinion, used sex as a weapon or tool. It is true over the years I have backed off in trying to initiate sex, but hundreds of refusals tend to add up. It used to be very common for her to give me the "I was going to have sex with you today/tonight until you 1)did x 2)did not do x 3) said y". My "favorite" is numerous times having coming home to her in lingerie or having her come to bed in what she knows I love, but still getting refused sex. In these situations she will refuse any advances, turning away from a kiss, preventing touching. The other night things were good cleaning up after dinner and I suggested she "change into something fun" this was met with "don't pressure me" and the end of all things physical since. Now to the heart of the question: In two weeks we have her sister coming to watch our child so we can spend a weekend out. I suspect my wife thinks she will be willing be physical. I am seriously considering not allowing this. Though the lack of physical intimacy is pretty consuming in my mind I am feeling like I may be better off saying no. I have always felt like that hardest part of the lack of physical intimacy in our marriage is that I get little teases of it now and again. I suppose in a way I want her to initiate and to be able to stop her and say "No, unless you are willing to commit to this being a regular part of our life". Does this have any chance of being effective? Occasionally she has suggest counseling because she feels like we are not close or are living like roommates. I encourage the counseling, but she drops it when she sees that I am willing. Does anyone have any thoughts, advice, encouragement? I love her dearly but I really struggle with the physical side of our relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
fascinated Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Marriage counseling is my suggestion. Withholding sex, love, money, etc. in a marriage is abuse in my world. Babies add a lot of stress to a marriage, and with that comes resentments. What you have described is not a loving relationship, but one full of contempt for each other. You need to find a way to show each other love if you want to change that, and a marriage counselor could help you both see what you can do to change the way you relate to each other. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 as a chance to have sex. Actually I bet she's feeling pressure. Tired of responding.... As per my last thread just search JamesM, Giotto or myself and you'll find plenty of threads about sexless marriages..... Sorry 5 years in and it seldom gets better. How old are you anyways? Link to post Share on other sites
Author l_lennar Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 I am 28, my wife is 31. The weekend plans are her's. Similar situations have come about before, it is not uncommon for physical intimacy to be tied around trips or vacations. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 then take what you can get, sit her down and talk about it and your future. Link to post Share on other sites
RRM Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I would want to know why she drops counseling when you seem willing, but it may be easier to ask her a general question that doesn't seem as accusatory. Perhaps you could ask her about her feelings about counseling. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 ,I suppose in a way I want her to initiate and to be able to stop her and say "No, unless you are willing to commit to this being a regular part of our life". Does this have any chance of being effective? Instead of saying no, have the sex and press the subject in the warmth of the afterglow. Tell her how close you feel to her, and how you need this closeness on a regular basis. Tell her you feel distant from her when you don't have sex regularly, and you are concerned about your relationship. Bring up marriage counseling, stressing that you don't want to grow farther apart. Occasionally she has suggest counseling because she feels like we are not close or are living like roommates. I encourage the counseling, but she drops it when she sees that I am willing. Why don't you set up the counseling when she shows interest? Find a counselor, make the appt, and find a babysitter--and just keep her informed of your progress (but don't depend on her to take the initiative). Take away her excuses and get it done! Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 as other people said, take the opportunity of the time away to reconnect and then "press" for answers if the outcome is good. Link to post Share on other sites
worldover98 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Hi I Ienar I'm in a dilemma like you where wifey is not into sex and I'm exhausted of having been rejected so much before that I've stopped trying. I'm with you buddy, if she decides to 'get loose" the weekend you all get away, take a pause and tell her exactly how you feel. A one timer wham bam and wait for another 7 months won't do it. The last time my wife and I made whoopy(7 months ago!!), it was depressing because she was not into it. The same may happen to you, so what's the use of getting a little if she's not really into it and has not changed her tune to be more willing and able in the future? Hold out, watch a little porn, or better yet get off on some nude photos of her( if you have any)! Good Luck! Link to post Share on other sites
Garrgoil Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Tell her that if she does not willingly have sex with you at least 2x/week you will find it somewhere else. Then go and do that. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 LL, Your sex life was dead for quite a while. And then you agreed to have a child with her. Why did you agree to have a child with someone who was jerking you around so badly? I have been lurking in this forum (and many others) for a few years trying to find some comfort or solace for my situation. Sorry if this ends up too long and rambling, but it is good to get it out. My wife and I have been married for 5 years and have a 7 month old child. I love my wife very much, but struggle to accept the current reality of our physical relationship. I feel like I am a good, patient and loving husband and father. I would consider the past 3 years of our marriage to have been sexless. If you subtract out the 3 months of trying to get pregnant we have had sex less than 15 times in two and a half years. My wife has very often, at least in my opinion, used sex as a weapon or tool. It is true over the years I have backed off in trying to initiate sex, but hundreds of refusals tend to add up. It used to be very common for her to give me the "I was going to have sex with you today/tonight until you 1)did x 2)did not do x 3) said y". My "favorite" is numerous times having coming home to her in lingerie or having her come to bed in what she knows I love, but still getting refused sex. In these situations she will refuse any advances, turning away from a kiss, preventing touching. The other night things were good cleaning up after dinner and I suggested she "change into something fun" this was met with "don't pressure me" and the end of all things physical since. Now to the heart of the question: In two weeks we have her sister coming to watch our child so we can spend a weekend out. I suspect my wife thinks she will be willing be physical. I am seriously considering not allowing this. Though the lack of physical intimacy is pretty consuming in my mind I am feeling like I may be better off saying no. I have always felt like that hardest part of the lack of physical intimacy in our marriage is that I get little teases of it now and again. I suppose in a way I want her to initiate and to be able to stop her and say "No, unless you are willing to commit to this being a regular part of our life". Does this have any chance of being effective? Occasionally she has suggest counseling because she feels like we are not close or are living like roommates. I encourage the counseling, but she drops it when she sees that I am willing. Does anyone have any thoughts, advice, encouragement? I love her dearly but I really struggle with the physical side of our relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Garrgoil, LOL. But actually my point was different. There are loosely speaking an escalating set of "commitments" you make to a relationship: 1. getting engaged 2. living together 3. getting married 4. having your first child 5. having additional children Of all of these - 4 is by far the biggest "increase" in commitment. If you agree to any of these steps you are implying acceptance of how you are currently being treated. For SURE agreeing to 4 - implies a huge acceptance of the status quo. Attention K Mart shoppers, DNA check on Aisle 4. Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 This is why you don't get married. The difference between paying an escort and paying a wife is that paying an escort you are guaranteed sex for your money while paying a wife you are only only guaranteed to lose your money. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Tell her that if she does not willingly have sex with you at least 2x/week you will find it somewhere else. Then go and do that. this is actually what honesty looks like. her behavior isn't from a loving place - or she wouldn't be using it to manipulate, control and punish you - love doesn't include those negative traits. IF she's unwilling to participate in a positive light - it IS best to allow her to understand exactly what you are going to do about it. she can either step up - or you step out... Link to post Share on other sites
Sparty97 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Bring your golf clubs...get up early and go play 18...turn her down for the weekend. Link to post Share on other sites
Deanster Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 OP - no, that approach has no chance of working. The problem with the 'I wanted to, until you did/said/didn't do/didn't say whatever' approach is that it's structural, not situational. Her position is that your failures are the thing stopping you from having a fulfilling sex life, and that if you could just get your act together, it'd be fine. However, if that goes on for more than, say, six months as a frequent issue, and you've attempted in good faith to address whatever she lays out as the problem, you can be confident that it's NOT about you. Or at worst, it IS about you, but you're not going to be able to fix it, so it's not going to change. Whatever is going on with her, she's 'just not that into you', and hasn't been since this started, and is unlikely to be unless something changes radically. Get out of the mode of thinking about this as a series of individual events, and start thinking about it as a pattern and a structure that you're living in. Push for making the counseling happen. Make it clear that this game of teasing and blaming you is unfair, and you're going to write down the date and purported reason every time she says it going forward, and once a week or month, you're going to recite the list of reasons why she's been unwilling to have sex with you, and ask if those things are really worth punishing you for. But maybe go have the best weekend you can first, and take what's available... might be the last you see for a while. Link to post Share on other sites
Dust Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Whether break up or not you better damn well take the sex you think is coming this weekend. In fact if she refuses this is the perfect time to get a small victory and say “baby we have this entire weekend to ourselves and I really need a good fck, and right now so do you!” haha, you get my point. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I third Garrgoil's advice. Straight up, tell her: "I either get it from you, or I get it from someone else still married to you. You don't get to call all the shots any more. Tell me what of those you want to look at closely. Oh, and by the way - we are going to counselling, either way. " Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 or maybe the OP should accept it's over. When you get to the stage of threatening to "get it somewhere else", surely the relationship is badly damaged. I know, because I'm in one of them. The OP's wife is never going to change or, if she does, she will do it for the wrong reasons if pressurised. You can achieve small changes, but you'll still be unhappy. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 You know....I get to thinking sometimes...... Are we making too big a deal about sex? What is the drive within us that makes us believe that sex is at the nub of a relationship - particularly when we've had all the kids we want, or are past making them? What is this physical urge? Why is it so consuming? Why does going without sex make some people frantic/miserable/frustrated/unfulfilled, and make others perfectly happy, content and really not seem to mind if it never happened again? What is the connection sex gives us - that we can't get in other ways, through warmth, affection, closeness, cuddles, and communication? It's what's kept the world populated, but it's at the heart of every intimate relationship - it's what makes the difference between sexual and platonic. This penetrative act that actually, takes up a fraction of our time, in comparison to other activities.... isn't it incredible how much significance we give to something like this? And really, I am pushing aside the emotive aspect. Now - I know it's hard to not connect the feelings we have for someone, with the act of having sex with them. Poetry, literature, films, art, TV programmes..... We have created an inseparable inter-connectedness between our love, and our lust. But truly, they are, and have been, two separate things entirely. So really, in attempting to leave aside this emotive aspect - what's so big about having sex? My libido has gone up and down throughout my life. Sometimes I've been as rampant as a jockey on speed, and at other times - cooler than a Frigidaire..... I have had 6 sexual partners in the whole of my 54 years. The sex with them has been at times, great, scant, boring, average, brief, mind-blowing, frequent, passionate, ordinary, memorable.... And this applies to all partners, on various occasions. I can pinpoint the times it has been terrifically, memorably fulfilling to....oh...maybe, three times? So realistically, when you've had sex, how great has it been, on a scale of 1 to 10? And if the times that it has been terrifically, memorably fulfilling for you, can be counted on the fingers of one hand.... What the hell is all the fuss about - ? Really? I'm not trying to offend anyone, or hold anyone to task. But I think sometimes, we need to examine why we need this physical desire fulfilled, and aren't we perhaps mistaking it, or using it as a replacement (filler? excuse?) for our need of validation, recognition and companionship? And if we could get those in a relationship, would that be enough? or would we still think we need sex, as much? This is just food for thought. But maybe it bears thinking about. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Yes, you are pushing the emotive aspect aside... It's not "incredible" that we give so much significance to such an act. Sex with your partner is the ultimate connection, an act of absolute trust and faith. As a man, it gives me intimacy and the feeling of being "whole" with my partner. Of course you can have perfectly fine relationships without sex, spiritual and platonic ones, but to me it wouldn't be complete. Why eliminate the physical side of it? I think the problem is actually giving the right significance and balance to it, not to "delete" it from your life. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 ........I think the problem is actually giving the right significance and balance to it, not to "delete" it from your life. Exactly. This is the basis of the phrase: "When the sex balance is right in a relationship, it's 5% of that relationship. When the sex balance isn't right in a relationship, it's 95% of that relationship." Is sex such a consuming factor, that its absence is the near be-all and end-all of the relationship? Why? Why does such a brief carnal act, play such a significant part? Was sex always an emotively-driven act? Did we add emotions along the way, and complicate it, unnecessarily? Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I find it hilarious when a woman thinks that she understands how men feel about sex. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Was sex always an emotively-driven act? Did we add emotions along the way, and complicate it, unnecessarily? My guess is that the emotions came along with monogamy. If you are ONLY having sex with the person you love, then sex gets pretty closely tied to love. Probably monogamy complicates it unnecessarily Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Is sex such a consuming factor, that its absence is the near be-all and end-all of the relationship? Depends. I'm only 47 and I still get erections... Maybe when I'm 83 I will see sex in a more "relaxed" way... but to me no sex - now - would be a deal breaker, for the reasons explained in my post above. Why does such a brief carnal act, play such a significant part? Doesn't have to be that brief... it's not just the length, it's the intensity and the emotions involved. Was sex always an emotively-driven act? Did we add emotions along the way, and complicate it, unnecessarily? No idea... but that's why I could never use prostitutes or escorts... sex, for me, has such a high emotional content/involvement that I would end up falling in love with one of them... Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts