Breezy Trousers Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) I can only iamgine what he said about me, as I have heard what he says about his wife & it isn't pretty. Good point. Rest assured, if MM is talking about BS to you, you will be open season when he goes back to BS. Every breast implant incision, stretch mark, saggy skin and stupid comment will be shared with BS. I'm speaking from experience. Not pretty, is right! Really, it's all about the MM's sick consciousness at the time of having an affair, not BS or OW. What is done to one will always be done to the other. My point is that it is easier to stay stuck & cake-eat until the last possible minute, & then to choose the one who has always been there & is still there & represents the least amount of risk & the most amount of comfort/familiarity/security. So that is why - plain & simple. The why is that it's easier. It is very hard to grow & change, for anyone -- OW or MM or just anyone. So people tend to stay where they are even if they like the momentary rush of something new. They like to put their toes in the water of something new but when push comes to shove they stay with the familiar. Maybe it's just human nature. Hardly! The truth is, affairs often bring exciting, profound changes to marriages if MP can weather the storm. It did so for my marriage. We grew closer and more intimate as a result of D-Day, not "stuck" and "in a rut." It takes more courage to stay in a marriage after D-Day, not less. The only time I can see a BS "settling" might be if she's in an abusive relationship with a narcissistic MM, because there's a sad set of dynamics at play there too involved to go into here (and people with NPD are notorious for having serial affairs and making OW believe she is the only one in the beginning). ...... Often a MM leaves a marriage for OW simply because BS decides she's had enough and won't stay (which MM probably won't tell OW because it's hardly flattering). Sliding into a back-up relationship is hardly courageous. Affairs are EASY. Marriages are not. Edited May 8, 2011 by Breezy Trousers
Silly_Girl Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Often MM leaves a marriage for OW simply because BS decides she's had enough and won't stay (which MM probably won't tell OW because it's hardly flattering). Sliding into a back-up relationship is hardly courageous. Glad I know that's not the case in my situation. That would pee me off! Thing is, received wisdom here is that the MM may leave, but more often than not he'll go back. Which is a bit messy if it's BS who's taken the decision about the marriage, then changes her mind and takes him back. Perhaps it happens as you say BT, but I'm not sure I'd view it as a significant proportion of post-affair MM/OW Rs.
Author wheelwright Posted May 8, 2011 Author Posted May 8, 2011 Fate up against your will? I know where you are coming from WW, it's a question that runs through my head every day. I wasn't thrown under the bus, but it all changed suddenly, like within a couple of weeks at best. Fortunately I have a conversation trail that spans back a few years between xMW and I. It's hard to read at times, sometimes it makes me laugh, sometimes it tears me up, sometimes I read what I didn't read so long ago. Struggle, torment, conflict, things I didn't really see because I was being selfish, self focused. Over the last 18 months I've learned a new level of compassion and understanding of xMW, a woman trying to do the right thing for her children regardless of her own happiness, something she's been willing to trade many times. I've learned to accept this, that it's not about me, what I said, how I acted, but it's truly about where she was, what she decided she needed to do to feel whole. I only truly wish her to be happy, with our without me. So in many ways the answer is really irrelevant, the only thing that matters is that she believes in, and is happy with her decision. Thanks for not trying to second guess me Circular. I loved your response. I agree with with feeling and hoping the x blah is happy with their decision. I am in an effervescent and positive mood at the moment. So kiss the stars and have faith that everything will work out in the best possible way for all involved x
Author wheelwright Posted May 8, 2011 Author Posted May 8, 2011 WW, I don't see it as a fault in any way that you want to understand this. Be married and having an affair with a married person is probably one of the most dramatic periods of your life. Of course you want to put the jigsaw pieces together. I do think a lot of men, where these situations are concerned, are inherently lazy. Often the woman in the R does the legwork, the structural stuff. There's a few men I have known or read about who appear to be paralysed by sloth! That, to me, is almost the worst one of all. But not to be underestimated, I fear. I have had the opportunity to learn why my bf walked away from us. But his reasons may not be your guys reasons so I'm not going to superimpose him on to your sitch. But I'm sure there's more than one or two or three reasons. And I'm sure there was a good deal of pain involved. Thanks SG. You know, it was a big and difficult jigsaw, and I only got the edges done a few months back. And now the pieces are in place and I am looking at my future beyond the puzzle. It is fair enough that most posters who know me of old haven't seen that. I didn't ask this question because there is still a piece missing, but because I am interested in how other people did their own puzzle.
Breezy Trousers Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Perhaps it happens as you say BT, but I'm not sure I'd view it as a significant proportion of post-affair MM/OW Rs. You could be right, Silly.
Author wheelwright Posted May 8, 2011 Author Posted May 8, 2011 It is easier to stay put than to take action & make change. You yourself are doing that by staying with your husband when you were in love with this OM & say he was supposed to be your soulmate. I mean, is that not inertia/ staying stuck instead of making change? Forgive me if you have been actively working on fixing your marriage & focusing on your husband & yourself instead of your xMM. But I think if you are not doing this then you are staying stuck. I'm saying this out of experience - I can say I want to get over xMM & live my life but unless I'm actually trying to do it [which I am now], I am purposefully staying stuck. I think that men especially are afraid of change, they are very comfortable at home & even if they truly believe [instead of just telling us to get us to feel sorry for them or not feel guilty] that their wives are b^tchy or cold or whatever, they feel very comfy sitting at home being the king of their castles. They are not going to get that with us OWs - with us they will get upheaval & change & they are afraid. I also agree with the theory that they want to save their a$$. And maybe once their wife actually finds out & gets upset, do they finally realize the extent of damage they caused, & feel bad & want to make things right, at least temporarily, until boredom creeps back in. I think I was my xMM's ego boost. He used me to feel good about himself & feel young & admired, but when the moment of truth came [& came again, & came again], he chose to stay put or go crawling back home. I can only iamgine what he said about me, as I have heard what he says about his wife & it isn't pretty. My point is that it is easier to stay stuck & cake-eat until the last possible minute, & then to choose the one who has always been there & is still there & represents the least amount of risk & the most amount of comfort/familiarity/security. So that is why - plain & simple. The why is that it's easier. It is very hard to grow & change, for anyone -- OW or MM or just anyone. So people tend to stay where they are even if they like the momentary rush of something new. They like to put their toes in the water of something new but when push comes to shove they stay with the familiar. Maybe it's just human nature. This response answers my question well. Personally I feel a lot of cowardice goes into these decisions, but it is cowardice tempered with compassion and altruism. Which is a funny old bag of motives. IME, having had an A myself, I can see how after DDay when no-one seems to trust you and your therapist is talking about fog and you are facing a BS who thinks you've gone mad, well you may feel unsure in yourself.
Author wheelwright Posted May 8, 2011 Author Posted May 8, 2011 I knew it wasn't aimed at me SG. I was stating I didn't understand the question; but considering WW liked WWIU answer, I have since then figured it out. Further comments welcome FO!
Author wheelwright Posted May 8, 2011 Author Posted May 8, 2011 I guess I just take issue with one statement that for the MM to stay married, he feels safe, while to pursue his dreams (OW), he must have courage.There is the implication that the BW is a pansy or a doormat, and life in the marriage is dull... Marriage is dull because the WS is probably making it dull on a lot of levels. I'm no push over or doormat, or shrinking violet. I am a passionate woman who challenges and questions my man when I have a different viewpoint. I just hate the implication that the WS is going back to his hum drum existence, meanwhile the fabulous OW (vs frumpy wife) revels in her newfound singledom. That was hardly the truth in my situation. I don't doubt this. I too have reconciled or forgiven after infidelity and know first hand this is not always the case. I have also learnt that sometimes it is true.
Author wheelwright Posted May 8, 2011 Author Posted May 8, 2011 The explanation is that you have falsely assumed MM threw you over for a marriage he didn't especially like. The reason I know it's a false assumption is because you clearly say his actions show that he likes the marriage more than you. Affairs are isolating, just as abusive relationships are. As a result, OW is isolated from perspectives other than those of the MM. That means OW/OM are getting all their "information" from a MM who is openly demonstrating to her -- on a routine basis -- that he is a lying, manipulative cheat. That was your first mistake. It's a mistake that is made all the time, as is evident from these threads. Affairs are often no different than abusive relationships, IMO. I'm glad you're out of it. Don't analyze this. He was unhealthy, and you can't have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy (lying/manipulative/secretive) partner. He did you a favor. You'll eventually see this. Not all cheats do not love their APs. But most of them do lie lol. In some way I asked the OP question because I wonder how we are to make sense of it all when we know the person we are so concerned with lies for a living. I am a great believer in making sense of things, and I enjoy it when there is a realisation that this is not totally possible. That is one reason why I want to hear how others make sense of similar things.
Author wheelwright Posted May 8, 2011 Author Posted May 8, 2011 May be true. But I think it's more complex than that. The number of issues and obstacles are far more than: do you like your AP more than your marriage? There's kids, jobs/relocation perhaps, guilt, worry of alienating old friends, financial concerns, possibly wider family issues. It's a very wide picture. Not everyone feels able to take the risk. Some absolutely subscribe to 'better the devil you know'. Some do that (stay) and regret it for many, many years...[/QUOTE] Agreed! I might have done that in my own M. But the die is cast and I am out now.
fooled once Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I guess I just take issue with one statement that for the MM to stay married, he feels safe, while to pursue his dreams (OW), he must have courage.There is the implication that the BW is a pansy or a doormat, and life in the marriage is dull... Marriage is dull because the WS is probably making it dull on a lot of levels. I'm no push over or doormat, or shrinking violet. I am a passionate woman who challenges and questions my man when I have a different viewpoint. I just hate the implication that the WS is going back to his hum drum existence, meanwhile the fabulous OW (vs frumpy wife) revels in her newfound singledom. That was hardly the truth in my situation. I really like the above post. I really agree. Many times in an affair, the woman is anxiously awaiting a visit and gets all dolled up and is on her best behavior. Notice I said many times, not always Affairs are akin to semi-dating, but with out the normal conversations, the openness, the "hey's lets go to xyz this weekend" type of attitude. Affairs are planned, weekends are usually non-existent due to a wife and / or kids at home. Marriage is daily stresses - house, kids, finances, vacations, home repairs, diarrhea, snoring, chores, etc. It is learning, growing, dealing with health issues, etc. But it is so rewarding to know at the end of the day, I will without a doubt laying next to my husband and his kiss will be what I go to sleep with, his touch will be what I feel before drifting to sleep and unless God has other plans, the next day we will wake up together and start all over again. It is truly a wonderful experience and I am so thankful that I get to spend all my tomorrows with him Good point. Rest assured, if MM is talking about BS to you, you will be open season when he goes back to BS. Every breast implant incision, stretch mark, saggy skin and stupid comment will be shared with BS. I'm speaking from experience. Not pretty, is right! Really, it's all about the MM's sick consciousness at the time of having an affair, not BS or OW. What is done to one will always be done to the other. Hardly! The truth is, affairs often bring exciting, profound changes to marriages if MP can weather the storm. It did so for my marriage. We grew closer and more intimate as a result of D-Day, not "stuck" and "in a rut." It takes more courage to stay in a marriage after D-Day, not less. The only time I can see a BS "settling" might be if she's in an abusive relationship with a narcissistic MM, because there's a sad set of dynamics at play there too involved to go into here (and people with NPD are notorious for having serial affairs and making OW believe she is the only one in the beginning). ...... Often a MM leaves a marriage for OW simply because BS decides she's had enough and won't stay (which MM probably won't tell OW because it's hardly flattering). Sliding into a back-up relationship is hardly courageous. Affairs are EASY. Marriages are not. Ditto Further comments welcome FO! Wheel, I don't think there is anything else I can add. I saw another post that you and H are separating. I think that is good for you and him. I think there is too much damage done to allow you both to heal and find your way back to each other. I hope that with this separation, you can find YOU again. I hope you can let go once and for all of the xMM. I hope that you can move forward to a new life, a new life either alone or one day with someone else. I hope you can heal and see that you do have a lot to offer the world, and your kids and one day, a single guy who isn't already committed to someone else. I hope you can find peace and acceptance and love yourself.
Author wheelwright Posted May 9, 2011 Author Posted May 9, 2011 Only to say thanks FO, I agree on the whole. And that xMOM and I never once berated our MPs during our A. We kind of kept that honour. Does that mean we might expect the same in return? Not all peopel live so that they badmouth others. Not even cheaters. In fact, that is sometimes a point of honour in cheating. IME.
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