Misconceptions about what men and women want from eachother

May 20, 2011

PS

I have read this scenario many times here on LS. An unhappy, sexless man coming to find answers to later find out that maybe he plays a role in the sexlessness as well.

Again, not the only scenario out there, but one that rears it's head often.

May 20, 2011

Wow' date=' I stand corrected, that was really good, starryeyed12! [/quote']

Thanks, Kristi I'm glad that you understand what I am trying to say. I've tried to be very patient with nordic, but I'm starting to see it may just be a lost cause.

May 20, 2011

ok you have my attention.

so this "how we communicate /express what we want and need and the timing of many of our wants and needs", is what you say.

then you spends of time describing an example where a relationship between a man and a woman comes down to a man trading intimacy (a commodity a female cant be without) for sex (a commodity a man cant be without), and how that relationship can break down when these two people dont give eachother what they need. i get it. its just that i got that when i was 21, and i would be hard pressed to find among the people i know, who does not know this. any man who ever tried to pick up a woman have seen this over and over again in real time. its hardly the biggest misconception around. its almost the opposite.

and let me just point out another interesting thing about that. it has absolutely nothing to do with what you said before. see "how we communicate /express what we want and need and the timing of many of our wants and needs", means that the biggest difference would be in communcition of needs or the timing of needs. but that is not what your example is about really, its not its core.

women have a similar dilemma. a 35 year old woman would not approach a man she doesnt know but is interested in and reveal the plan that she plans to be married in a year and preggers in two. simpy coz most men will run, and she knows that.

so, its not a problem of communication first hand, its a problem in the differences between what we want. which is not what this "how we communicate /express what we want and need and the timing of many of our wants and needs" implies.

Nordic. Dear, sweet, simple, Nordic.

I'm going try one last time to get my point through to you. I think you just revel in trying to twist any word in such a way as to continue agruing.

Bolded 1: The man did not "trade" anything for anything. Life happened, Nordic. The ups and downs, ins and outs of life. Things do not stay constant. The only thing constant is change. Relationships change. They also require work to keep up with the changes and maintain healthy, happy standards.

In this scenaro the their relationship changed, and it became increasingly difficult to find the time to fulfill the needs of one another. Who started not fulfilling needs first? It doesn't really matter. It started and spiraled from there. There are 100s of different reasons as to why even the most compatible of couples can reach a relationship breakdown.

The main cause of relationship malfunctions/misconceptions between man and woman is miscommunication of wants/needs and how they can be fulfilled for one another. Also, the differeneces in timing-- the most obvious examples of such can be pointed out in younger couples, though is not limited to.

In my example, if she could have expressed her need for him to fullfil her romantically and the ways in which he could go about this, he may have been able to do so. Maybe she didn't communicate this to him bc she didn't want to fall into the misconception of women being emotional nags.

In this scenario he was not putting in the time and effort of romance. There could be 100s of different reasons I could make up right now for this. Maybe he got consumed with work and was gone travelling all the time. Whatever. The point is that the effort of romance and caring was not there, and he initiated sex, yet was getting shot down. He did not ask his wife questions about this for weeks and weeks. Him demanding sex would have only exasperated the problem, making her feel more like a mere sex object to him and he didn't bother yet anyway. He just bitterly rolled over in bed as she pushed his hand away another night.

All the while the miscommunication of their wants/needs is pushing them further and further apart. What started as just a small lack of desire for her husband because of his lack of romance and caring turns into weeks, months of libido killing resentment. The nights of unfulfillment pile up, as well as the resentment.

You say this is so obvious any 21 year old can see it. You are so wrong it's disgusting. On paper, all spelled out for you its EASY to say "Oh come on! Everyone knows that women need this, or that and men need this." If it is so easy, Nordic, why do 100s of people come to LS with the same underlying problems. If communication of our wants/needs and how they can be fulfilled was a cinch, then there would be no misconceptions at all. 9 times out of 10 the misconception starts with the breakdown in communication! We are not forthcoming with our inner feelings and desires, nor are they always feasible or fair. If we were all transparent, well then maybe I could see your point.

The last bolded point- A 35 yr old woman who is healthy and stable would not set 2 year time contraints on herself in this way.

No healthy woman is going to pour her deepest desires to a stranger, even if she was crazy enough to limit her life to some crazy 2 year plan.

And if they are dating, she should tell him that she would like to have children and get married soon--he deserves to know and that would be her communicating her wants and needs. If he is not the man to fulfill them, he should thank her for sharing and not waste any more time and effort.

This is the kind of miscommunication that drives in misconceptions/relationship problems.

Men and woman want many of the same things--we want happy, healthy, sexfilled lives. How we go about giving this and getting this is very differnt stories that can only be understood through communication.

Edited May 20, 2011 by starryeyed12

May 20, 2011

Bolded 1. This is not a "learned behavior". This is an outward reaction to inner built up resentment.

Bolded 2. So now you are comparing sex to everyday chores? Hmmmm....telling.

I'm sorry that I wasn't more detailed in my example about the wife withholding sex for 8 months. In my example I explained that the husband has not paid attention to the woman in non-sexual ways in a long time. Why? Things got busy, changes happend, kids, work, you fill in the blank. My point was that the woman did not express her needs and the man did not express his except in a way that made the woman feel as if she was being used only for sex.

She didn't have sex with him because she did not have the desire to because RESENTMENT is a libido killer. Women are very capable of witholding sex where there is pent up resentment. This is not the end all be all answer, as some woman may be sexually disfunctional or manipulative with their withholding, but DO NOT label all women as such because they aren't having sex for x length of time.

She could very well have loved her husband, but sh*t happens. How are we to know if she is actually satisifed with him? How are we to know he is fulfilling all her other needs? You are assuming a lot on the man's part as well.

Yes, when I feel emotionally injured, desire leaves the room--fast. Getting it back requires working through the issue, which we've always managed to do in a couple hours, or at most a couple days. If there are issues upon issues, and layers of resentment, that is going to kill desire for sure.

Some people are probably manipulative, and withhold sex to get their way. But it is also predictable for a woman to cringe at the touch of a man who she feels has hurt her. Men might be better at compartmentalizing, and having sex even though they were pissed at their wife 2 hours earlier--but I can't do that unless we've resolved the issue.

In the cases of layers of resentment, though, both partners have responsibility for it getting to that point. Communicate!

May 20, 2011

OPB: xxoo

Yes, when I feel emotionally injured, desire leaves the room--fast.

And:

Some people are probably manipulative, and withhold sex to get their way. But it is also predictable for a woman to cringe at the touch of a man who she feels has hurt her. Men might be better at compartmentalizing, and having sex even though they were pissed at their wife 2 hours earlier--but I can't do that

In the cases of layers of resentment, though, both partners have responsibility for it getting to that point. Communicate!

Yes, EXACTLY! Say you cringe because your feelings were hurt. Well, if your partner doesn't realize that they hurt you, or realize the extent of it, they would ASSUME that you cringed out of distaste, which then (rightfully if that's his perception ->) hurts his ego, which he probably won't express, but won't forget either, and may pop up in some other action, which further hurts her, which he doesn't realize, and because she ASSUMES he knows full well that he's hurting her, it leads to more cringing, etc., etc.... and before you know it, neither can figure out who hurt who first, or whether they should apologize or expect one.

And the relationship between two people - who may love and care about eachother very much - starts to erode. Not because we're different, (at the level that counts - wanting hapiness, security and love, we're all the same) but because men and women don't always READ eachother well.

I think it would be helpful to know what some of the common misconceptions are, so we don't make so many false assumptions. If a man read xxoo's post with an open mind, and happened to get a cringe one night but decided to ask if something was wrong instead of automatically feeling undesired, maybe he (and she) could have an amazingly good night together. As opposed to them lying next to eachother, not touching while they each replay their own version of 'I can't believe he/she did ___'

I just wanted to know from men what they feel we women commonly get wrong. What are some of their 'cringes' lol? I did get a few from Woggle and the other man who replied at the beginning, but then it got hi-jacked by the many faces of Norm, and it seems like the whole thread ended up with us trying to untwist our words and defend ourselves from being made to look uncaring, uncomprehending, or downright predatory. Oh well. Some good came of it - I know which posters not to bother reading anymore, lol

Men and woman want many of the same things--we want happy, healthy, sexfilled lives. How we go about giving this and getting this is very differnt stories that can only be understood through communication.

Oops, I should've just used this quote for what I was *trying* to say above! Once again, said much better than I did, lol. Thank you Starryeyed12 starting to think I should skip the middle man & address threads directly to you and xxoo, and then just write, "yeah, what she said!", lol.

I don't know if I'm not clear, or if Norm just picks on me because he hates butterflies or girls named Kristy or what - but he does this under one alias or another to everything I've ever posted on here from day one, and then it seems like everything else is just this huge attempt to explain or defend what I wrote until (thank God) one of you two or another regular comes along to bail me out!

Thanks to both of you. ...good LORD do you have patience!!

May 20, 2011

Nordic. Dear, sweet, simple, Nordic.

I'm going try one last time to get my point through to you. I think you just revel in trying to twist any word in such a way as to continue agruing.

Bolded 1: The man did not "trade" anything for anything. Life happened, Nordic. The ups and downs, ins and outs of life. Things do not stay constant. The only thing constant is change. Relationships change. They also require work to keep up with the changes and maintain healthy, happy standards.

In this scenaro the their relationship changed, and it became increasingly difficult to find the time to fulfill the needs of one another. Who started not fulfilling needs first? It doesn't really matter. It started and spiraled from there. There are 100s of different reasons as to why even the most compatible of couples can reach a relationship breakdown.

The main cause of relationship malfunctions/misconceptions between man and woman is miscommunication of wants/needs and how they can be fulfilled for one another. Also, the differeneces in timing-- the most obvious examples of such can be pointed out in younger couples, though is not limited to.

In my example, if she could have expressed her need for him to fullfil her romantically and the ways in which he could go about this, he may have been able to do so. Maybe she didn't communicate this to him bc she didn't want to fall into the misconception of women being emotional nags.

In this scenario he was not putting in the time and effort of romance. There could be 100s of different reasons I could make up right now for this. Maybe he got consumed with work and was gone travelling all the time. Whatever. The point is that the effort of romance and caring was not there, and he initiated sex, yet was getting shot down. He did not ask his wife questions about this for weeks and weeks. Him demanding sex would have only exasperated the problem, making her feel more like a mere sex object to him and he didn't bother yet anyway. He just bitterly rolled over in bed as she pushed his hand away another night.

All the while the miscommunication of their wants/needs is pushing them further and further apart. What started as just a small lack of desire for her husband because of his lack of romance and caring turns into weeks, months of libido killing resentment. The nights of unfulfillment pile up, as well as the resentment.

You say this is so obvious any 21 year old can see it. You are so wrong it's disgusting. On paper, all spelled out for you its EASY to say "Oh come on! Everyone knows that women need this, or that and men need this." If it is so easy, Nordic, why do 100s of people come to LS with the same underlying problems. If communication of our wants/needs and how they can be fulfilled was a cinch, then there would be no misconceptions at all. 9 times out of 10 the misconception starts with the breakdown in communication! We are not forthcoming with our inner feelings and desires, nor are they always feasible or fair. If we were all transparent, well then maybe I could see your point.

The last bolded point- A 35 yr old woman who is healthy and stable would not set 2 year time contraints on herself in this way.

No healthy woman is going to pour her deepest desires to a stranger, even if she was crazy enough to limit her life to some crazy 2 year plan.

And if they are dating, she should tell him that she would like to have children and get married soon--he deserves to know and that would be her communicating her wants and needs. If he is not the man to fulfill them, he should thank her for sharing and not waste any more time and effort.

This is the kind of miscommunication that drives in misconceptions/relationship problems.

Men and woman want many of the same things--we want happy, healthy, sexfilled lives. How we go about giving this and getting this is very differnt stories that can only be understood through communication.

yes baby:) my sweet unicorn of a woman:-)

baby, i get it. you are kicking in open doors. the example is crystal clear.

its just not proving what you want to say. btw, the trading i spoke about, does take place, and it works, but it is of course not on conscious level. just like friends trade commodities in a friendship relationship, so does heterosexual couples, just that their commodities are different.

back to your example. i do see what you say. there are ups and downs in life and sometimes we forget or dont have the energy to act the way we know we should, and the consequnces of that may be surprising to us, since we ourselves dont carry the emotions our partner need. i get it. my grandmother used to have a knitted (dunno the english word) sign in one of our summer houses when we were kids that said (was in swedish, this is translated) "love me the most, when i deserve it the least, coz that is when i will need it the most".

people are not good at reading other peoples needs when they struggle in life. which will happen if we have ambitions.

i think this might be one the most common relationship mistakes around, but its most likely not a very misconception. if it is one at all. i think most men and women know this very well.

but its like calling your boss an *******. its not that you dont know that you shouldnt, there no misconception about that, you just stopped caring coz you had no emotional energy left to manouver with.

so again. i get it. it still does nothing to prove that men and women want the same things. and i just dont think that we do. we are set up so differently.

here is my problem. i hate sexual history. i will find a girl i like, which is kind of difficult and takes some hard field work :-) , and more often than not, she will prove to have an unacceptable sexual history. i generally suggest an open relationship with her, coz after all, i do like her and want her around. women will often accept this, but they dont understand that they are never able to live in practice with the consequences of it, and they always disappear after some time, when they realise what it means, and they see that what they really want is an exclusive relaitonship.

see, here is a real misconception between men and women. women simple dont get how important this is to men. they know it in theory, but have no clue of how it works out in real life. that is pure misconception.

15 months ago i ran into this woman, that is just perfect for me in many ways. i tried to not ask anything. but she kept jabbing about her previous life all the time. and she simply did not know that she destroying everything word by word. and yes i did communicate this to her with words, and later finalyy put a stop to it by showing her, so she finally got it.

now, this one doesnt leave. despite of my efforts to drive her away, and despite the open relaitonship that has been going on for 15 months. i even had a girl give me blow job in her bed, when she was away. plan was to sleep with three times the amount the sexpartners she had, and that way get back to her. but it clearly did not work. no matter how many girls i sleep with i cant get those images of her with other men out of my mind.

plus, she wants children. i have children already and dont really need more, but she wants, and i think she will need them in her life at one point. but this just changes things too much. i can not keep doing these things to the mother of my children, it would nt really work for me. at the same time, if i dont, i get increasingly aggresive, and her history pops up whenever i start treating her too much as a real gf.

her is the problem. if she was a virgin, i would marry her. i would probably have proposed already. and she would want to be. she said she had no clue what she was doing, and no clue that men could react this way to sexual history. i tried to push her away, coz i know this is not sustainable, but the woman want leave, coz she can simply not understand that this issue could mean that much. after all its all in the past. it does though. and that is something women will never get.

hence a true misconception:-)

oh, and last point. i guess i never met a mentally stable 35 year old woman who wants children badly then:-)

May 20, 2011

Thanks, Kristi I'm glad that you understand what I am trying to say. I've tried to be very patient with nordic, but I'm starting to see it may just be a lost cause.

you should just keep on topic baby, then we understand eachother:-)

May 20, 2011

OPB: xxoo

And:

Yes, EXACTLY! Say you cringe because your feelings were hurt. Well, if your partner doesn't realize that they hurt you, or realize the extent of it, they would ASSUME that you cringed out of distaste, which then (rightfully if that's his perception ->) hurts his ego, which he probably won't express, but won't forget either, and may pop up in some other action, which further hurts her, which he doesn't realize, and because she ASSUMES he knows full well that he's hurting her, it leads to more cringing, etc., etc.... and before you know it, neither can figure out who hurt who first, or whether they should apologize or expect one.

And the relationship between two people - who may love and care about eachother very much - starts to erode. Not because we're different, (at the level that counts - wanting hapiness, security and love, we're all the same) but because men and women don't always READ eachother well.

I think it would be helpful to know what some of the common misconceptions are, so we don't make so many false assumptions. If a man read xxoo's post with an open mind, and happened to get a cringe one night but decided to ask if something was wrong instead of automatically feeling undesired, maybe he (and she) could have an amazingly good night together. As opposed to them lying next to eachother, not touching while they each replay their own version of 'I can't believe he/she did ___'

I just wanted to know from men what they feel we women commonly get wrong. What are some of their 'cringes' lol? I did get a few from Woggle and the other man who replied at the beginning, but then it got hi-jacked by the many faces of Norm, and it seems like the whole thread ended up with us trying to untwist our words and defend ourselves from being made to look uncaring, uncomprehending, or downright predatory. Oh well. Some good came of it - I know which posters not to bother reading anymore, lol

Oops, I should've just used this quote for what I was *trying* to say above! Once again, said much better than I did, lol. Thank you Starryeyed12 starting to think I should skip the middle man & address threads directly to you and xxoo, and then just write, "yeah, what she said!", lol.

I don't know if I'm not clear, or if Norm just picks on me because he hates butterflies or girls named Kristy or what - but he does this under one alias or another to everything I've ever posted on here from day one, and then it seems like everything else is just this huge attempt to explain or defend what I wrote until (thank God) one of you two or another regular comes along to bail me out!

Thanks to both of you. ...good LORD do you have patience!!

kristy, kristy...

nobody has replied to you after you wanted out of the discussion.

you can not both be on the sidelines AND complain over all the horrible critising men here. you need to choose one.

maybe if you had an idea and presented it, we would have something to critize, if you miss the attention. but that would mean that you need to think or share and not only whine:)

May 20, 2011

PS

I have read this scenario many times here on LS. An unhappy, sexless man coming to find answers to later find out that maybe he plays a role in the sexlessness as well.

Again, not the only scenario out there, but one that rears it's head often.

which might make mean he making reltionship mistakes or might mean that his woman just dont want to have sex, hard to say. does not say much about anymisconceptions at all:-)

May 20, 2011

Bolded 1. This is not a "learned behavior". This is an outward reaction to inner built up resentment.

Bolded 2. So now you are comparing sex to everyday chores? Hmmmm....telling.

I'm sorry that I wasn't more detailed in my example about the wife withholding sex for 8 months. In my example I explained that the husband has not paid attention to the woman in non-sexual ways in a long time. Why? Things got busy, changes happend, kids, work, you fill in the blank. My point was that the woman did not express her needs and the man did not express his except in a way that made the woman feel as if she was being used only for sex.

She didn't have sex with him because she did not have the desire to because RESENTMENT is a libido killer. Women are very capable of witholding sex where there is pent up resentment. This is not the end all be all answer, as some woman may be sexually disfunctional or manipulative with their withholding, but DO NOT label all women as such because they aren't having sex for x length of time.

She could very well have loved her husband, but sh*t happens. How are we to know if she is actually satisifed with him? How are we to know he is fulfilling all her other needs? You are assuming a lot on the man's part as well.

as i said before. i agree on this. women are emotional beings, and they dont tend to "decide" not to have sex just for the hell of it. women like sex.

on the other hand. one can see two things here, that are a bit weird.

when women expalin this in words. it will sound like. but if he only would clean up one evening, or do the dishes or the washing or put the kids to sleep. then i would become horny. and this sounds so alien to us. and i frankly dont think it works like that. i never seen it work. i do think taking your women on vacation for a week, would get here loose enough...that i can understand.

also, if one look around for sex with enough women, one will eventually run into women who are married but are cheating on their husbands. now, that has happened to me a few times, and they always say that they have no sex with their husbands. now, i am certainly not doing any washing... and probably her husband is working harder for her, whatever he is doing. so tht there is a clear connection between female sexuality and a mans committment is not that clear. women have sex for all sorts of reasons. sometimes they are just horny, but not on their hubbies.

try and communicate that in good way my unicorn:)

May 20, 2011

1. If all men are to be stoic then how can some of the most beautiful and touching poetry, music, art, film be done by men? Some men are very in tune with their emotions and they unabashedly channel it into their life's work. And we revere them as celebrites and pay them millions and millions of dollars for their work at acting out human emotion (fill in the blank of your favorite actor, singer, producer or writer). In fact, you could argue they are more revered than men in other professions-- even the more "manly" ones. I guess thats our society.

I strongly disagree with this. People romanticise celebrities far more than they do anyone in real life. I have discussed this issue at great length with several friends (both male and female) as it has happened to me more than once and I've seen that I'm not alone. Many women watch romantic movies and listen to pop songs about romance, love and feelings and fall in love with the celebrities bemoaning how they wish they could find a man like that. But whenever they get into a situation irl where their SO starts to express their feelings romantically they get turned off. Suddenly they wish their man were a stoic 'mans man', and any expression of emotion or hurt (and i'm not talking about crying and snivelling, I'm talking about expressing how you feel emotionally either positively or negatively about an important situation) comes across as pathetic or 'cheesy'.

May 20, 2011

I strongly disagree with this. People romanticise celebrities far more than they do anyone in real life. I have discussed this issue at great length with several friends (both male and female) as it has happened to me more than once and I've seen that I'm not alone. Many women watch romantic movies and listen to pop songs about romance, love and feelings and fall in love with the celebrities bemoaning how they wish they could find a man like that. But whenever they get into a situation irl where their SO starts to express their feelings romantically they get turned off. Suddenly they wish their man were a stoic 'mans man', and any expression of emotion or hurt (and i'm not talking about crying and snivelling, I'm talking about expressing how you feel emotionally either positively or negatively about an important situation) comes across as pathetic or 'cheesy'.

i disagree with this but for another reason.

i show my emotions very openly and especially around women, and if anything i find that they like it. women very good at reading mens emotions anyway so trying to hide does not work well i think, not i would try. i think it makes people more relaxed around you if they dont have to worry about what mood you are in coz they cant figure it out.

i am generally happy though, so that probably helps. if i was whiny most of the time maybe i would try to cover it up. i doubt women would find that very sexy though:)

but really. honest advice. try to show women what you really feel all the time. you might be positively surprised. i find women are great in helping if you are in a bad mood and equally great to share stuff with if you are happy. they are very likable like that:-)

May 20, 2011

also, if one look around for sex with enough women, one will eventually run into women who are married but are cheating on their husbands. now, that has happened to me a few times, and they always say that they have no sex with their husbands. now, i am certainly not doing any washing... and probably her husband is working harder for her, whatever he is doing. so tht there is a clear connection between female sexuality and a mans committment is not that clear. women have sex for all sorts of reasons. sometimes they are just horny, but not on their hubbies.

Resentment can be an explanation for the bolded. Starryeyed said that resentment is a libido killer....but I think it is more specifically a desire killer. The libido is still there, but the desire for the person she resents is gone.

But these cheating wives can also be just poor examples of humans--just like the easily-found examples of cheating husbands. Like I said earlier (or was that a different thread?), the message is strong in our society that humans need variety to have sexual excitement. That is NOT my experience, nor my opinion, but that is the message I hear all the frackin' time.

IMO, new partners are the lazy-(wo)man's route to sexual excitement. The more challenging, and more rewarding, route is deep intimacy with your longterm partner. But that requires maturity that a lot of people just don't have.

May 20, 2011

yes baby:) my sweet unicorn of a woman:-)

baby, i get it. you are kicking in open doors

No where in this thread did I say it was okay for you to call me baby.

I am not your baby, and I personally find it degrading coming from someone other than my bf or maybe family.

Now you know, so please refrain.

Thats all for now

May 20, 2011

I see the same thing as well. I have seen a good number of women who cringe at their husband's touch but are total freaks for the OM. The woman my friend is seeing does things for him that he only dreamed of before but she says that even kissing her husband makes her want to vomit. I know it is cool to knock commitment but from where I stand my friend is in a much better position than her husband. I am sure he never imagined his marriage would turn out like this when he said I do.

May 20, 2011

Resentment can be an explanation for the bolded. Starryeyed said that resentment is a libido killer....but I think it is more specifically a desire killer. The libido is still there, but the desire for the person she resents is gone.

But these cheating wives can also be just poor examples of humans--just like the easily-found examples of cheating husbands. Like I said earlier (or was that a different thread?), the message is strong in our society that humans need variety to have sexual excitement. That is NOT my experience, nor my opinion, but that is the message I hear all the frackin' time.

IMO, new partners are the lazy-(wo)man's route to sexual excitement. The more challenging, and more rewarding, route is deep intimacy with your longterm partner. But that requires maturity that a lot of people just don't have.

Wow, not sure if I've ever agreed more with any other post. The whole "variety" and "swinging" thing is becoming so vogue, that it's like going to the bathroom. I actually get it, and I'm sure variety and newness would be exciting, but at what expense? And I always laugh about how those marriages have less divorce. Well, if banging other people is the only way to stay together, it seems like a cheap and artificial way to do it.

The OP asked what is it that women do that turns men off. Well, I've posted abut it in other threads, but women will never get it, and I guess it's just a sign of the times. Frankly, I give up. I see very little hope or reason in the future for people to be in relationships. I always hold my tongue when it comes to my kids, so as not to seem cynical. So, I tell them all the proper bull****, but cringe when I say it. When it's time for them to date, they will have to fend for themselves.

May 20, 2011

Resentment can be an explanation for the bolded. Starryeyed said that resentment is a libido killer....but I think it is more specifically a desire killer. The libido is still there, but the desire for the person she resents is gone.

But these cheating wives can also be just poor examples of humans--just like the easily-found examples of cheating husbands. Like I said earlier (or was that a different thread?), the message is strong in our society that humans need variety to have sexual excitement. That is NOT my experience, nor my opinion, but that is the message I hear all the frackin' time.

IMO, new partners are the lazy-(wo)man's route to sexual excitement. The more challenging, and more rewarding, route is deep intimacy with your longterm partner. But that requires maturity that a lot of people just don't have.

i also thought she was wrong in that, but focused on the other things that were wrong as well. yes, of course. the libido is still there, it just takes the right man to get her attention, and for whatever reason her husband will not be the subject for her desire anymore. she will say its coz he doesnt take the garbage out, but women sexuality is so much more complex than that, which all men know, so we dont believe that. it can be anything really, maybe she has seem him too many times go straight to the sofa after work, and spend his whole evening there. not much james bond in that, and after a while he just doesnt seem exciting anymore to her, but she still wants to stay in the marriage coz its comfortable to her.

May 20, 2011

No where in this thread did I say it was okay for you to call me baby.

I am not your baby, and I personally find it degrading coming from someone other than my bf or maybe family.

Now you know, so please refrain.

Thats all for now

calm down baby. and read your own posts and other females here, and see what you call people here. you want name calling to stop, here is a hint. dont start it first, and always lead by example, and stop first.

until then there are worse things to be called than baby, baby.

have a look at kristy's posts and see what she calls people, but read carefully, a shy unicorn like yourself might blush:)

May 20, 2011

I see the same thing as well. I have seen a good number of women who cringe at their husband's touch but are total freaks for the OM. The woman my friend is seeing does things for him that he only dreamed of before but she says that even kissing her husband makes her want to vomit. I know it is cool to knock commitment but from where I stand my friend is in a much better position than her husband. I am sure he never imagined his marriage would turn out like this when he said I do.

yeah, that is how it works. married women will go wild when they get in bed with men outside their relationships. i dont know how that works for them, how their psychology works, but i know it for a fact.

i think the difference is that a single girl that wants a relationship needs to hold back so she doesnt seem too slutty when she has sex first times with a new man, but a married women obviously has other goals in bed.

i dont know if this is true, i only did this a few times, but i have the feeling that they go extra wild because they are cheating and its like they are doing things against their husband as much as with you. sort of using you as a tool to break free from their husband or to get back on him. i know it sounds a bit far out, but thta is feeling i have gotten a few occasions.

oh, and when you get back a cheating wife, she will probably tell you a bs story about how vanilla the sex was and that she only did this coz was unhappy in her relationship and that it never meant anything or something like that.

that will not be true when it comes to the sex. she will lie. the times i did this the sex was very very dirty from get go, and nobody was holding back. one of few times i had anal sex at a first date, was with a married woman on a greek island. we had been going at it for hours and run out of condoms and i got tired and the only functional way to finnish me was using some sun screen. i bet if her hubby ever found out, her story would look sooo different than that:)

May 20, 2011

as i said before. i agree on this. women are emotional beings, and they dont tend to "decide" not to have sex just for the hell of it. women like sex.

on the other hand. one can see two things here, that are a bit weird.

when women expalin this in words. it will sound like. but if he only would clean up one evening, or do the dishes or the washing or put the kids to sleep. then i would become horny. and this sounds so alien to us. and i frankly dont think it works like that. i never seen it work. i do think taking your women on vacation for a week, would get here loose enough...that i can understand.

also, if one look around for sex with enough women, one will eventually run into women who are married but are cheating on their husbands. now, that has happened to me a few times, and they always say that they have no sex with their husbands. now, i am certainly not doing any washing... and probably her husband is working harder for her, whatever he is doing. so tht there is a clear connection between female sexuality and a mans committment is not that clear. women have sex for all sorts of reasons. sometimes they are just horny, but not on their hubbies.

1.) You are incapable of seeing underneath actions to what they really mean, the motivations people have for doing any such action. This skill, in general, is important to understanding where misconceptions come from and how to communicate in order to overcome them.

You only expand your mind beyond the obvious when it suits you and your arguement.

You really can't see what the action of "doing the dishes" really means to a woman, can you? I'll spell it out for you yet again. You say these things are so obvious that your 21 year old self had it down pat, well you seem to have lost some wisdom along the way.

If it's just a one time thing--then no, you can't trade apples for oranges. "I'll trade you 2 days dishes for 1 night sex." Not how it works, Nordic. Sex should not be a mindess chore traded for another mindless chore. Sex as an intimate activity is not comparable to the activity of a daily chore.

Let's look a little deeper.

If "doing the dishes" translates to consistantly helping out around the house without asking, helping take care of the kids and their endless list of events, asking how her day was, telling her shes beautiful, planning a romantic evening instead of just rolling on top of her, well, then that has much more significance to a woman. "Doing the dishes" then means acts of helping, investing time into the family, investing time into her, building her self confidence, giving her some "me" time so that she can take care of herself and as a by-product look sexier and healthier for you.

It's a two way street. Women need to do this as well, but often the sterotype and misconception is that it's the women starving in this area, though not always the case. When a partner says they want more of this type of behavior, they don't just mean for one night. It's a lifetime committment.

If the everyday grind of family life and the regular maintence of romance is out of balance or neglected on one end, there will be resentment on the other. That resentment, if not communicated and delt with properly, can spiral out of control leading to deep resentment on both ends.

2. ) No sh*t.

You are nothing, but an ESCAPE for them. They tell you "Oh, I love you" and they have sex with you.

Let's look a little deeper.

The cheating man or woman--9 times out of 10-- DOES NOT love you. You are nothing more than an escape from his or her own mental issues/relationship isses. It is a selfish, immature way of escaping the truth and dealing with reality. Of course selfish people don't care if how hard you try at "doing the dishes," they are too self absorbed to notice because that would require them to see outside of their own selfish wants and needs. The resentment is deep on both ends at the point of an affair. It's just the more selfish partner who usually decides to go down this path.

You as the OM/OW are just that. You are some other form of distraction/escape. In time your trist will end and there will be consequences to pay. Escapism is not a foundation for love 99.99999995% of the time.

Whatever brings people to a point where they begin to act this immature and selfish--well, that probably came about because of lack of communication of their true wants/needs a LONG time before this. And that goes for both partners in the relationship.

May 20, 2011

I think it really depends on the cause of the annoyance. If it's a tiny thing and the man gets the silent treatment and no sex, then it becomes a spiral. Like women want to be understood, they should understand that men need to be understood too. We are different, so communication is paramount. I get the not wanting sex if you feel wronged, but sometimes talking and solving the issue is a lot simpler than withholding sex.

May 20, 2011

calm down baby. and read your own posts and other females here, and see what you call people here. you want name calling to stop, here is a hint. dont start it first, and always lead by example, and stop first.

until then there are worse things to be called than baby, baby.

have a look at kristy's posts and see what she calls people, but read carefully, a shy unicorn like yourself might blush:)

Quote me on what name I called you.

And the go f*ck yourself.

May 20, 2011

Wow, not sure if I've ever agreed more with any other post. The whole "variety" and "swinging" thing is becoming so vogue, that it's like going to the bathroom. I actually get it, and I'm sure variety and newness would be exciting, but at what expense? And I always laugh about how those marriages have less divorce. Well, if banging other people is the only way to stay together, it seems like a cheap and artificial way to do it.

The OP asked what is it that women do that turns men off. Well, I've posted abut it in other threads, but women will never get it, and I guess it's just a sign of the times. Frankly, I give up. I see very little hope or reason in the future for people to be in relationships. I always hold my tongue when it comes to my kids, so as not to seem cynical. So, I tell them all the proper bull****, but cringe when I say it. When it's time for them to date, they will have to fend for themselves.

mmm, for me its also a function of womens sexual history that makes it difficult. i just dont want other men to have done anything to my woman, ever. and, of course, thats not how the world works today. but i actually would prefer a reationship with one woman, that felt sexually exclusive to me. the current lifestyle seems fun, but is a bit draining. and you loose the respect for some women, which makes it even harder to find someone special.

its like that quote. "good boys do get the girl, after all the bad boys had her first".

and really, who wants to be a good boy in that world? even if you were from onset of things.

May 20, 2011

Quote me on what name I called you.

And the go f*ck yourself.

thats grown up.

**** you too.

and now when thats out of our systems, five year old girl.

men dont like to be called sweet, at least i dont

May 20, 2011

Hm can't find a quote where I called you degrading names can you?

I'm seriously done talking to you, Nordic.

You have really pissed me off now, and I have been patient in dealing with you. I explained how I find that degrading and you don't care. If I offended you in the same way, you can easily point that out before purposely going against something I took the time to ask you not to do.

Do me a favor and ignore my presence here.

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