Never thought I would be doing this

[jayinblue]

Dude,

 

Its normal to feel defensive and angry. I was too. Its what allows you to come up with the rationalizations needed to engage in an affair. The truth is, you already are in an affair right now. It just isn't physical. Most women would actually be more hurt by what you're doing now (sharing intimate thoughts and feelings with someone else) than if you just went and hired a stripper or something.

 

But from everything I've heard, you have already made some decisions. I will tell you in advance its a long painful road you've started on. You won't get to where I am (or where I suspect many people have ended up) for a while now, but eventually, there will be some significant consequences for the things you do.

 

I'm going to offer one last thought for you. Imagine your wife found out the day after the weekend trip - would your relationship with her be completely over right now? Are you ready for that to happen? How will you explain your affair to your children in a way that doesn't make your wife vindictive or make your children lose all respect for you.

 

There is a book about ending relationships, I forget its name offhand, but it really does give you some important things to think about. I would pick it up and read it.

 

I suppose the kids issue isn't as significant since yours are now older and can fend for themselves. I would also suggest to you that if you and your wife have been as friendly as you say, your kids are going to take this one really hard.

 

If you have nothing to lose (i.e. this other girl is still going to be around and you're planning to end your marriage anyway), why don't you take the time to end it the right way? Where the two of you sit down and discuss what went wrong and why.

 

To offer you a carrot, if you handle this situation correctly (i.e. thoughtfully while trying to minimize the hurt and pain), you will have a real golden opportunity to learn more about yourself as a person than at any other point in your life. You will learn more about your needs, your own failings, and what you really need to be happy. This information will be so important for you, because even if you bail on your marriage and start another relationship, you will end up in the same place, because the truth is, you will simply bring yourself (the one who was willing to put up with too much crap and not change anything) to the new relationship, to repeat the same mistakes.

 

Don't you deserve a chance to make better decisions? Doesn't your wife? This could be your best (and only) chance to change yourself for the better. For what its worth, there is a book called "when good people have affairs" - I encourage you to read it, because it may make some of your motivations clearer.

[foggyandconfused]

This is the same girl you described as very sexually open. This is the type of girl who would have no problem having sex on the first date with a guy she really liked as much as you believe she likes you. Yet here you are ready to pay for her trip, bending over backwards to line up a job for her when she didn't even ask you to...IOW replaying the doormat role. And you didn't get sex from her did you.

 

We took a walk in the park after a show. Should I have did her in the public park and risked arrest? We kissed and held each other. Nothing wrong with that. I do not jump into things, like you must think men should. I can see people using you on the first date and not wanting to get to know you, with your attitude. Some people, however, think differently. I lined up the job because I am a nice guy. I am sure you have not had much experience with them either. You sound like a psycho magnet.

 

Now why wouldn't she have sex with you if she likes you so much, and is sexually open? Because she doesn't have to and doesn't want to. And because you are playing the doormat with her. You claim you want to get to know her first--but you've been doing that for six months, and you knew her from before. Those lunches were "dates" of a sort, maybe not romantic ones, but it's not like you don't "know" her yet? You're talking about leaving your wife for this woman yet you don't think you know her well enough to have sex with her on the first "real" date?

 

More proof that no matter what I do, some of you will always place the blame on me. Again we were in the park. This is not really our first date, we have went to dinner a few times, had a few drinks on a few weekend afternoons. Like I said in an earlier post, besides a few one night stands, I do not jump into bed with people on a "first date," or without knowing them well first. Why are you so wanting me to have sex with her? If it is to happen, it will happen on our trip, where we can be relaxed, away from everyone, and with no worries. If she wants to wait until after I separate, that is fine also.

 

Listen, I would NEVER take a woman on a four day trip that I have just dated once and had a few lunches with. That's ridiculous. Before you have even established a sexual relationship with her?

 

I guess you and I are different. Long passionate kisses, flirting, combined with getting to know someone are the beginning of a sexual relationship, are they not?

 

You claim you want to have sex, yet it sounds like you didn't even try when you probably had the chance last night. When are you going to get a better chance? You should have propositioned her then and there, at least you'd know where you stand.

 

Again, this is not all about sex. It is part of it, but not all. Is about AFFECTION. Kisses, hugs, giving a compliment once in a while, listening to your partner, doing things for them, etc. How hard is that for you to understand? Now you are bashing me for not trying to get in the 22 year old's pants, in the park, after a concert??? Really?

 

Classic doormat behavior. She's emotionally abusive to you by denying affection and sex and you bend over backwards doing the household chores. Ridiculous. That's what I was talking about. Why does a woman who denies you sex like you said your wife does, deserve such treatment? Yet you immediately do basically the same thing with the new chick. If you ever do get over to her apartment you will probably put the apron on and wash her dishes too, then wonder why she doesn't want to have sex with you either.

 

You are just a fool. I have always tried to do half the chores. Most woman would find this commendable. To you, that makes me a "doormat." Again, I say you are a fool. I am the bad guy, for trying to do the right things while married and I am the bad guy for wanting to wait to move out.

 

The big question mark obviously is your first marriage, how and why did it end? Also why did you marry your second wife? Was she ever sexual/affectionate?

 

The first marriage was when we were both 18. It ended because we couldn't financially handle having a child and it strained the marriage beyond repair. Plus, we were barely out of high school.

 

I think anyone who was willing to go without sex for six years like you have is pretty naiive about women and sex. I understand she had some medical issues but after a few months of no sex and being turned down (if not long before) surely a normal healthy man reaches the breaking point. If I had no sex at all for even a few weeks I would be impossible to live with, I am sure I would lay down some pretty serious ultimatums (fortunately never had to find out personally).

 

Now I am not healthy, because I spent years trying to salvage my marriage, the very same thing some of you are telling me I should STILL be doing? Give me a break fool. I would guess with your attitude of how everything I do is wrong, you are probably a horror to live with. I bet your cockold, doormat mate (if you even have one) just doesn't have the guts to leave, as I am finally developing.

 

Yes this is the point. If you are not getting any sex why would you wash a single dish? I would have just said "Screw them dishes, we will use paper plates." If she doesn't like it she can wash 'em.

 

It appears you are more of an insensitive jerk than I am. This last comment of yours is just plain stupid.

 

Regardless of whatever issues you think others might have, if everything is going down just like you said, it indicates to me that you don't understand women. Neither your wife, nor this new chick, nor I imagine others. The time to have tried to seal the deal with the new girl was yesterday. You were too polite, too respectful, you put her on the pedestal, so now she has absolutely no respect for you as a man. (Not to say she would have actually had sex with you last night but you didn't even try.) When a chick tells you "Let's take it one day at a time" that's a pretty telling indicator that she's just stringing you along and that's her out.

 

She is telling me she is giving me time to figure out what I want to do and where this new relationship leads us. She is not pressuring me and I respect that. I am sure other woman in this forum would support your idea that I should already be in her pants, at every opportunity. Again I say, you are either a fool, or have been abused my men most of your life. I can see your father yelling at your mother, "You won't b**w me? Than do the dishes yourself." Something very telling happened to you that you have such a callous attitude towards men and the way you feel they should dominate women.

 

She's not your girlfriend if by girlfriend you mean "A woman who I have sex with." Men in their 40's don't consider themselves to be "in a romantic relationship" with a woman if there hasn't been sex yet, unless of course they're the type of guy who doesn't get that having sex is what makes it a relationship in the first place.

 

You know everything about men in their 40's? You should have your own TV show, since you are such a scholarly authority of all men. I consider myself to now be in a romantic relationship, since we have now kissed and have flirted and spent a lot of time together, over the last six months.

 

I don't even know why I wasted so much time replying to your stupid and just plain ridiculous comments.

 

Pfffffft.

[foggyandconfused]

jayinblue,

 

Great advice. Thanks. I will look for that book.

 

Much better advice than Garrgoil telling me I should have banged my friend in the park last night. Geez.

 

Will I allow the same things to happen? I doubt it. People do learn lessons from life's experiences you know. Even "doormats" like myself.

[whichwayisup]

Then focus on the helpful advice. You seem more and more pissed off and responding to words that anger you rather than communicating and talking to those who are trying to help you.

[foggyandconfused]

Then focus on the helpful advice. You seem more and more pissed off and responding to words that anger you rather than communicating and talking to those who are trying to help you.

 

I just want to prove morons like Garrgoil wrong. That post by Garrgoil had to be the most moronic in this whole thread. I guess I shouldn't waste my time with simpletons like that. More good advice. Thanks WWIU.

[Kismetly]

I just want to prove morons like Garrgoil wrong. That post by Garrgoil had to be the most moronic in this whole thread. I guess I shouldn't waste my time with simpletons like that. More good advice. Thanks WWIU.

 

You know Foggy, I've often found that the posts that sting the most, are those we most need to reflect on .... just sayin'

[foggyandconfused]

You know Foggy, I've often found that the posts that sting the most, are those we most need to reflect on .... just sayin'

 

Yes, post 286 by Garrgoil has men, women and relationships nailed. It didn't sting, it was just stupid. Other posts have stung me, just not that dumb one.

[RRM]

I agree that Garrgoil's post was pretty stupid.

 

The old saying about advice goes something like "take what you can use and disregard the rest" and I think that can sometimes be a good way of thinking about advice.

Edited May 9, 2011 by RRM

[whitecaps]

Foggy...

 

You mentioned you have a college age child? Is that so? This thread is so long, maybe I'm getting a bit confused. But if you do, please consider this, please. It doesn't matter how old the child is, they will be the innocent victim. Yes, there are many divorces in society, and yes they do survive, but they also do suffer.

 

If you are going to go the route of being with the OW, be honorable and end your marriage, then pursue that route. It's just the honorable thing to do for your wife, yourself and also your child, whom I know that you love. It would be selfish to walk the fence and keeping this from your wife and hurtful for your child.

[Mme. Chaucer]

You should go back to stripping and heroin. Oh, you can't strip anymore, because you are now an old bitter, used up woman, with a pickled brain, that no man wants? I can see how that makes you bitter. I actually feel sorry for you Chaucer. At least you were probably good at shooting smack and stripping and probably back room deals for extra cash. You are, unfortunately, no good at advice, or communicating.

 

Yes, it does suck to be a pathetic loser like me. WAAAAHHHH!

 

See? We actually have something in common. I'm a big old crybaby, myself! We're the same!

 

I really do appreciate your sympathy. It's nice to know that a middle aged INCEL is sitting by his computer, taking the time to feel sorry for skanky old me in the midst of his active fantasy life ... thank you, grampi. I mean, froggy. Foggy.

[RRM]

Yes, it does suck to be a pathetic loser like me. WAAAAHHHH!

 

See? We actually have something in common. I'm a big old crybaby, myself! We're the same!

 

I really do appreciate your sympathy. It's nice to know that a middle aged INCEL is sitting by his computer, taking the time to feel sorry for skanky old me in the midst of his active fantasy life ... thank you, grampi. I mean, froggy. Foggy.

 

Why become so grouchy?

 

You are capable of giving advice without being patronizing.

[Bootsie]

You are a very strange poster indeed.

 

You consistently ignore posters that have anything civil or helpful to say to you and you spend your time bickering with posters with whom you disagree.

 

You have managed to hurl abuse at a whole bunch of posters merely because they happen to be (older?) women and have "picked on" a few posters in a really unpleasant way. Nobody has called you a moron and various other nasty names that have been bandied about by you.

 

Did you not know that this forum has betrayed spouses (many wives) who would be distressed by the situation in which you find yourself?

 

I'm tempted to say it's no wonder you're in the situation you're in. You started off sounding like a half-decent guy too.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Bootsie

[Mme. Chaucer]

How much more obvious does she have to make it that she is really an OW trying to seduce a MM?

 

Hm. Are you sure?

 

I have a different theory.

 

I believe that our Mr. Froggy is really a married, very angry and isolated middle aged man. His wife, I imagine, is disinterested in having sex or much else to do with him - she might be happily engaged elsewhere, maybe having an exciting sex life or just enjoying social times with friends and family, maybe working at a stimulating job, or pursuing hobbies - traveling - whatever. So frustrated, lonely Froggy sits alone at the computer, spinning these romantic cliches and spewing venom at anyone who does not play along with his sad, transparent fantasies.

 

He's been here quite a few times under different guises. All the stories are quite similar, and the disintegration of the threads identical.

 

I've called him out before for his recurring theme of being entitled to "happiness" via an extramarital affair because his wife has neglected him so badly and now some delectable woman is panting after him. He invariably responds by belittling me for my past addiction, etc, which I have spoken about over my time on these boards. Clearly he's read all of my posts for "ammunition." I find that creepy.

 

An interesting feature that I'm eagerly awaiting this time is when the "friend" shows up with a separate identity to share "her" side of the tale.

 

It's really just a very half-baked virtual style of having a mid-life crisis.

 

This is all just conjecture, of course, but I would be willing to put big money on the fact that there is no 22 year old hottie just dying to jump on this old fella's bones in the real world.

 

There is one aspect of all his tales that I do believe to be true: he isn't having any sex, except maybe with himself.

 

That's my theory.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Why become so grouchy?

 

You are capable of giving advice without being patronizing.

 

I wasn't being grouchy ... I was being funny! Grouchy might be what the poor old fart wrote to me:

 

You should go back to stripping and heroin. Oh, you can't strip anymore, because you are now an old bitter, used up woman, with a pickled brain, that no man wants? I can see how that makes you bitter. I actually feel sorry for you Chaucer. At least you were probably good at shooting smack and stripping and probably back room deals for extra cash. You are, unfortunately, no good at advice, or communicating.

 

Maybe you could give him some advice about fixing his "grouchiness." I think he could use it.

[Universe]

go to therapy!

 

Seriously- you have two separate issues here that are about to explode in to one really horrible experience. Trust me - I've been there. I know exactly where you are - YOU ARE PLAYING WITH FIRE!

 

Issue #1 - You are having an emotional affair and you need to stop. Even if you and this intern were meant for each other and you are truly in love (which is HIGHLY unlikely), then she will wait for you to figure out what to do about your marriage. But it's already gone too far. You should not have invited her on this business trip. You should tell her that you changed your mind about it. Tell her she can't go. If for some reason she must go (and don't lie to yourself and make up a fake reason) then under no circumstances should you share a room with her. YOU WILL CHEAT if you do. Don't think you won't. She already assumes that you want to cheat on your wife with her. If you take her on this trip and don't come on to her, she with either take the lead and come on to you very aggressively, or she will resent you for messing with her head. Either way - she won't take no for an answer and things will turn bad.

 

Issue #2 - you need to go to therapy with you wife and discuss what to do about your sex life. Yes, you made a commitment, but it's not really fair that she decided to end both of your sex lives. Even if she has a condition and can't have sex, there are alternatives and they need to be discussed. A therapist can help you with that discussion. Regardless, there's no excuse for going outside of your marriage for sex unless she's explicitly given you permission to do so.

 

If you do let this affair get physical, you will then be burdened with keeping it a secret, which will eventually destroy your marriage. You can't live a lie like that and still have a healthy relationship. Can't be done. If you own up to it, your wife will likely be devastated in ways you can't even imagine. These are not consequences you want to have first hand experience dealing with. Save yourself. Get help now while it's not too late.

[betterdeal]

Is it possible you have a physiological condition that affects your sex life negatively? I had phimosis and that affected mine significantly.

 

Given that you have this bright young thing sniffing around you, and you're not getting any at home, having a squeeze with her would be an ideal outlet, even if it didn't lead to anything else. But there seems to be a theme of trying to control the situation and a lot of problems doing *anything* sexual. That's what suggests to me you may have a physiological condition that you're labouring with and are, in fact, avoiding sex yourself to avoid the physical pain or hurt that comes as a result of the condition.

Edited May 9, 2011 by betterdeal

[betterdeal]

You should go back to stripping and heroin. Oh, you can't strip anymore, because you are now an old bitter, used up woman, with a pickled brain, that no man wants? I can see how that makes you bitter. I actually feel sorry for you Chaucer. At least you were probably good at shooting smack and stripping and probably back room deals for extra cash. You are, unfortunately, no good at advice, or communicating.

 

She's my favourite poster, and former heroin users are often the most bang on the button people I have met. Perhaps it's the way they have to manage getting off those painkillers, and deal with their underlying problems and do this in spite of prejudice and general nastiness from large parts of the population that means only the brightest stars make it out of that particular darkness.

[Eve]

And if I told her now I would be telling her I got her a job, hoping be rewarded with sex on the trip, right?

 

 

 

So, I shouldn't take any advice I receive on this forum?

 

It is funny how some will take anything I say to try to make me out to be some horrible guy. Maybe I am for being in this situation. I just know that no matter what I say, some of you will lash out like I am some evil playground pedophile.

 

I am trying to absorb some advice, while tuning out the jaded woman who hate all men that stray from their wives, no matter what the reason. The truth of the matter is that if my wife would have taken my serious problem with our marriage to heart, tried to find alternatives and things that would make me feel worthwhile in our marriage, and not just sluffed it off for years like ti didn't matter, leaving me to feel like I am living with a roommate, this would not have happened.

 

Of course I still love my wife. I cannot just wipe away ten years of marriage in a few days. I will always love her.

 

However, I am learning that I need to look out after #1, because for years nobody else has given a flying f**k. Even though our marriage, outside of the lack of affection, has been good (no real fighting - we spend lots of time together, get along with our families, have m,any mutual friends, etc), living with a roommate is not enough. I need and deserve to be loved. As I have said, I have pleaded and tried very hard to get some resolution to this situation and tried to help her in many ways. I have tried to make her feel sexy and appreciated. Tried to make her feel loved. I get a little hug about once a month and a peck of a kiss.

 

Now, I am feeling more and more that I should look out after me and only me, for once in my life. I know you women that want to be worshipped 24/7, no matter what YOU do, think this is so horrible, but I do not.

 

H'mm.. I think that you should tell this young lady about the job because it has already happened. Good news is good news! I do see it as a form of engineering to wait until after the trip. Telling her first will be the ultimate test to see if she really wants to be with you. Or is your with holding part of this 'looking out for number one' thing too?

 

Although she is of age, it is like you are trying to keep her from making a decision away from you. I mean right now everything is on schedule but what if she had time now to review the situation? Would she still choose you?

 

Is there a pattern there OP? Are you trying to avoid this young lady making decisions without you because maybe women have changed on you to your detriment when you open yourself up? What lead to the demise of your first marriage? Has your second marriage gone down the same lines?

 

All valid questions.

 

People are asking from different perspectives is all.

 

I hope you are able to open up more because people here have been through a lot of things and it may help within your reflections. As with all things in life, focus on what strikes a cord, even if it is uncomfortable. These experiences that you are having are valid but people are giving a 360 view, which is always challenging, no matter the subject.

 

I would say that any therapy really would be better focused on yourself right now, away from both women! If we don't face up to patterns that form in our lives, we repeat them. You seem to attack this in others here and usually something that deep has roots. Deal with your own roots. But, yeah, that's all very idealistic. I think you just want to be free but don't want to do the work. It's like you think you have done the work already and it got you nowhere.

 

I sense that you do have problems with communicating with women beyond business related issues. Hence your choice of venue with this young lady. I heard some very good points raised by Garrgoil. If nothing else, from reading that post you do seem to accept that your behaviour is doormat-ish. So yeah, look into the aspect of finding yourself first. I only say this because I too think that you are at the start of a pattern of behaviour that will eventually feed into the ending of the relationship with this young lady too.

 

OP, although you say that you want to spare your Wife the pain of what you are up to. I don't think it is your responsibility to make any decisions for her. She is a grown woman and needs to know about your affair.

 

Ok, think about posting in the OW/OM forum. I don't go there so that will be a bonus, lol. You are having an affair OP. It's time to face up to who you are now and get on with opening things up so that you can leave and everyone can eventually get on with their lives. If you want to do this amongst cheers, that is the place to be.

 

Take care,

Eve x

Edited May 9, 2011 by Eve

[Alma Mobley]

She's my favourite poster, and former heroin users are often the most bang on the button people I have met. Perhaps it's the way they have to manage getting off those painkillers, and deal with their underlying problems and do this in spite of prejudice and general nastiness from large parts of the population that means only the brightest stars make it out of that particular darkness.

 

I don't post much, but she is one of my faves, too. If I ever need a kick in the ass, I would hope Chaucer would give it, if I were brave enough to post in the first place. When "foggy" posted his nasty post about her "faults," I kept thinking, "And these are all the reasons you should listen to her -- she has lived and has learned," but he would rather call her a bitter old crone instead and throw in that no man would want her. Then he wonders why some think he sounds misogynist.

 

Anyway, I am with others in that this story started to smell a few pages ago.

[bentnotbroken]

I don't post much, but she is one of my faves, too. If I ever need a kick in the ass, I would hope Chaucer would give it, if I were brave enough to post in the first place. When "foggy" posted his nasty post about her "faults," I kept thinking, "And these are all the reasons you should listen to her -- she has lived and has learned," but he would rather call her a bitter old crone instead and throw in that no man would want her. Then he wonders why some think he sounds misogynist.

 

Anyway, I am with others in that this story started to smell a few pages ago.

 

 

It does have that certain smell that you can only get from mythological creatures with poor hygiene practices.

[Garrgoil]

We took a walk in the park after a show. Should I have did her in the public park and risked arrest? We kissed and held each other.

 

OK great so you smooched her a little bit. You're ready to leave your wife cause some chick kisses you a little bit?

 

I thought the whole reason you started the thread was because you were sexually frustrated in your marriage and this chick was a vehicle to solve that frustration.

 

You're conjuring up all kinds of plots and plans and maneuvers--take her on a big trip, get her a job--with the end result of hoping to have sex with her, yet you haven't asked her to have sex with you when the opportunity presented.

 

The shortest path between point A and point B is usually a straight line.

 

Listen, if she was really all that into you, you probably wouldn't have had to ask. She would have made her intentions very clear. She didn't. Lots of chicks will make out with a guy or even more but go no farther. I'm not sure why you have the impression this chick even wants to have sex with you in the first place. After six months of this "courting" phase if it was going to happen, it would have happened by now.

 

The other issue you're missing, is that if she wanted to have sex with you, she was EXPECTING you to at least try to "go for it" the other night.

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with that. I do not jump into things, like you must think men should.

Actually, I would tend to agree with the folks who are telling you to resolve your marriage one way or the other before getting involved with anyone else, but you've made it clear you don't want to do that.

 

So no I really don't think you should jump, but if you are going to jump, don't be so half-hearted about it. While you shilly shally believe me the 22 year old honey is marketing herself elsewhere and keeping all her options open. And she's at least been honest and told you that: "one day at a time."

 

 

I can see people using you on the first date and not wanting to get to know you, with your attitude.

Yes but you've known this woman for years and have been courting her for six months, and in your mind, you are already taking fantasy vacations with her. Now you seem to be saying you're not even sure if it would be appropriate for the two of you to have sex. O.K. maybe so, but then, stop the fantasy-castle building.

 

 

Some people, however, think differently. I lined up the job because I am a nice guy.

I wish there were sound effects available because I would put the "echo chamber" effect on the bolded item.

 

No you weren't being a nice guy, you want to exercise control over her. That's proven by the fact you didn't and haven't even told her about "her new job."

 

What you did with the job thing strikes me as perhaps the weirdest part of your whole story. I am flabbergasted that you think any 22 year old college degree chick is going to "appreciate" that you went ahead and applied for and got them a job, salary, etc., without even discussing it with her.

 

This is perhaps the part of your story that is the least believable since I have never heard of any legitimate employer in the business world hiring someone for any kind of decent position without even speaking to them/meeting them/interviewing them/discussing salary & benefits and so forth. I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your buddy where he will give your gf a job sight unseen but the whole thing strikes me as completely unprofessional.

 

Truly "nice people" don't do stuff that can have a major influence on someone else's life, someone they claim to love, behind that person's back and w/o even discussing it first. (OP you even negotiated what this chick's salary would be and her position--"entry level"--with your buddy, w/o any discussion with or input by the prospective employee. Not cool. Shows a fundamental lack of respect on your part, towards this chick.)

 

I am not going to say you are a total @hole (but that would be justified given some of the nasty responses you have provided) but clearly you are somewhat tone-deaf when it comes to "normal" relationships based on some of the stuff you are posting on here.

 

 

 

I am sure you have not had much experience with them either. You sound like a psycho magnet.

You sound like a refrigerator magnet.

 

 

More proof that no matter what I do, some of you will always place the blame on me.

Not me, I didn't "blame" you for having an affair, I don't think. But you seem to think that your relationship problems will be "solved" if only you have an affair to work through them. What I am trying to point out to you, is that you are carrying the same personal issues into your affair that you have in your current marriage, and most likely that you had in your first marriage.

 

Forget about the sex since now you are claiming that's not what the affair is about (although you originally claimed you loved your wife but weren't getting any sex). Now it's about love and romance, not sex. O.K. fine, just be aware this chick doesn't love you. If she loved you she wouldn't be offended if after six months of courtship you tried to have sex with her. She might not be ready to have sex (very doubtful) but she certainly wouldn't mind if you tried, she'd be flattered. If you don't feel confident enough with her to even try then that means you are simply not ready for a relationship of any kind with this chick. You are not man enough for it.

 

 

 

Again we were in the park. This is not really our first date, we have went to dinner a few times, had a few drinks on a few weekend afternoons.

Yes but nothing happened of a "physical" nature. In your mind you played up these purely platonic/networking lunches by a college grad of someone she perceives as a mentor, into some sort of fiery romance. This chick's attractive, she's on the ball, she obviously knows you've been mooning over her and is stringing you along nicely.

 

 

 

Like I said in an earlier post, besides a few one night stands, I do not jump into bed with people on a "first date," or without knowing them well first.

Fine, but you just said that you do know her pretty well and it wasn't really a "first date." But you're missing the point. You don't have to jump into bed with her or anyone, but you claim you want to. You are going to need to find out sooner or later whether she is game, you just don't have the gonads for this.

 

 

Why are you so wanting me to have sex with her?

It doesn't matter to me. You're the one who claimed you're sexually frustrated. If you are like this in your marriage I can see why you're having problems beyond your wife's issues, you probably give your wife all kinds of mixed signals.

 

 

If it is to happen, it will happen on our trip, where we can be relaxed, away from everyone, and with no worries.

You will find a way to blow it, I suspect.

 

 

If she wants to wait until after I separate, that is fine also.

That means you don't really need sex as much as you have claimed. Which explains going six years without.

 

 

 

I guess you and I are different. Long passionate kisses, flirting, combined with getting to know someone are the beginning of a sexual relationship, are they not?

No, it sounds like either it's a tease, or maybe you got the "consolation prize". After six months, if you still have no idea whether or not she actually want to have sex with you, this chick is never going to have sex with you. However she is letting you down easy because she still wants to maintain you as a professional contact (although she doesn't know about the job yet).

 

If I was 14 then yes a make out session with a shy virginal girl of the same age would be the beginning of something. Maybe. At 44 (your approximate age) no I wouldn't want to have a make out session which leads to....nothing. I would find that very frustrating.

 

But then again I am not someone who could conceivably tolerate six years in a relationship with zero sex. It takes a special kind of eunuch to be able to tolerate that.

 

 

 

Again, this is not all about sex. It is part of it, but not all.

None of it is about "sex," since you didn't and never have had sex with this woman, and apparently never even had a frank discussion about it. After six months of quasi-"dates."

 

Is about AFFECTION. Kisses, hugs, giving a compliment once in a while, listening to your partner, doing things for them, etc. How hard is that for you to understand?

She is not your "partner." (Your wife is obviously.) Also let me point out there was no discussion of exclusivity, and undoubtedly, while you have been chastely lunching with her for the past six months, she has been going out, partying, and no doubt having sex with lots of different guys (her age or closer to it than you, no doubt).

 

She is just teasing you with the hugs and kisses because she is fishing for a job offer or lead from you. Which is why you haven't told her about the job offer you claim to have for her.

 

This is a 22 year old hottie with lots going for her (according to you) who would have no problem having sex with a different guy each night. Why would you think that isn't exactly what she's doing right now?

 

 

Now you are bashing me for not trying to get in the 22 year old's pants, in the park, after a concert??? Really?

Not "in the park." Presumably you have a credit card and could drive to a nearby motel, though.

 

But yes, frankly--six months of courtship, you finally have your big romantic date/concert--when do you think a better time would be to try to have sex with her? If you ever had a real opportunity to actually have sex with her (doubtful), that was it. Sorry, you missed it.

 

 

 

You are just a fool.

Why? Why am I "the fool"? Because I am pointing out the obvious: You are engaging in self-defeating behavior?

 

 

I have always tried to do half the chores. Most woman would find this commendable.

Your wife doesn't, why do you think other women would?

 

 

To you, that makes me a "doormat."

No, your entire description of your behavior, attitude and life sounds like "doormat" to me. Or as you put it "I am a nice guy."

 

The classic part is the "nice guy" move of lining up a job for this chick without telling her and deliberately waiting until after the "sex trip". So it's actually an attempt by you to control her behavior.

 

Same thing with you washing all those dishes. You didn't wash them because you wanted to, you washed them because you thought it would make your wife view you as "commendable."

 

Again, I say you are a fool.

I am the fool, yet you are now on your second failed/failing marriage, chasing around some chick half your age, who's cheating on her own bf, and stringing you along to get a job. Your sex life is zero. You prefer to fantasize about a sexual affair rather than actually have sex. When this is pointed out to you, you claim the sex in the affair isn't important, which contradicts why you are having the affair in the first place (according to how you started out this thread).

 

You and your chickie-poo are separated by decades of age but in a way are two peas in a pod, two duplicitous folks trying to out-use each other. She will run rings around you since you have no clue how to "handle" a woman.

 

 

 

 

I am the bad guy, for trying to do the right things while married and I am the bad guy for wanting to wait to move out.

No you are bad at getting women to actually have sex with you, that's all.

 

 

The first marriage was when we were both 18. It ended because we couldn't financially handle having a child and it strained the marriage beyond repair. Plus, we were barely out of high school.

You should have used a condom. I'm sure your son is well-adjusted knowing that you believe he was a "mistake" and that you blame his existence for the end of your first marriage.

 

 

Now I am not healthy, because I spent years trying to salvage my marriage, the very same thing some of you are telling me I should STILL be doing?

I think your behavior in your marriage was and is unhealthy AND I think your behavior in your relationship with the new gf was and is unhealthy.

 

You are being dishonest with both your wife and your gf.

 

You think being superficially "nice" with ulterior motives is the way to get what you want out of your relationships, despite the fact that it hasn't worked in your marriage and it hasn't worked with your new gf.

 

Why are you so bent out of shape with the notion that you should be straightforward in your relationships? Be it with wife or gf?

 

Conjuring up a fantasy four day sex trip in your mind with your affair partner, based on six months of platonic networking lunches, plus one "romantic" date where you did some random smooching, is unhealthy IMO.

 

 

Give me a break fool. I would guess with your attitude of how everything I do is wrong, you are probably a horror to live with. I bet your cockold, doormat mate (if you even have one) just doesn't have the guts to leave, as I am finally developing.

On the contrary my wife's mother's day present was "me" and she appeared as if she enjoyed all 45 seconds of it.

 

 

 

It appears you are more of an insensitive jerk than I am. This last comment of yours is just plain stupid.

 

I think I am very sensitive. I don't think my comment was stupid. I think it was on the mark.

 

She is telling me she is giving me time to figure out what I want to do and where this new relationship leads us.

No she told you "let's take it one day at a time." If she was all that interested in having an actual relationship with you she would have told you that, because women have expectations and don't like to waste their time with indecisive men.

 

 

 

She is not pressuring me and I respect that.

She is not pressuring you because she is getting exactly what she wants out of the "relationship" right now. Which is exactly nothing, sexually speaking. She is getting her sexual needs fulfilled elsewhere, and don't you forget it. Just because you are content to be sexually celibate doesn't mean she is. She has made no commitment to you of any kind, which is what she was trying to tell you.

 

 

I am sure other woman in this forum would support your idea that I should already be in her pants, at every opportunity.

Look you started this thread saying you loved your wife but weren't getting enough sex. Now you're claiming sex is not that important to you. If you don't want to get in the new chick's pants, then don't, but stop blaming your sexless marriage all on your wife.

 

 

Again I say, you are either a fool, or have been abused my men most of your life.

Why would men abuse me?

 

 

I can see your father yelling at your mother, "You won't b**w me? Than do the dishes yourself."

Don't knock it till you've tried it.

 

 

 

Something very telling happened to you that you have such a callous attitude towards men and the way you feel they should dominate women.

No on the contrary I think men should be honest in their relationships both with women and with other men. It's gender neutral since I think women should be equally honest in their relationships with men and women.

 

You're being dishonest with both your wife and your gf. You perceive yourself and announce yourself as "the nice guy" but truly nice people don't lie to and deceive their loved ones.

 

 

You know everything about men in their 40's? You should have your own TV show, since you are such a scholarly authority of all men.

I think men in their 40's should by that point in life and having been through two marriages have enough self-confidence to be more honest and straight forward in their relationships, and not have gooey thoughts of teenage romance (you said "I haven't felt this way since I was a teenager") just because some 22 year old chick who wants help getting a job kissed them.

 

 

I consider myself to now be in a romantic relationship, since we have now kissed and have flirted and spent a lot of time together, over the last six months.

Good luck, but if you didn't manage to even ask her for sex on Saturday night, after six months of prior courtship, you are never going to have sex with this woman. You think you can try to put her into some compromising position where she "owes" you sex (nice guy tactic)--isolated, same hotel room on a trip, "I got you a job, I took you out to lunch for six months," blah blah blah like every other nice guy) but that's part of your romantic fantasy.

 

A shame you think this kind of thing is worth breaking up your marriage over, you're just trading one sham relationship for a new sham relationship.

 

 

 

I don't even know why I wasted so much time replying to your stupid and just plain ridiculous comments.

 

Pfffffft.

I got laid this past weekend. Did you?

[Alma Mobley]

Foggy, don't bother replying to Garrgoil. He is notorious for writing long, nonsensical responses. He has gone under many names here on LS and he always gets banned, then comes back as someone else. His favorite targets are women, but he also goes after men he perceives as "doormats." Ignore him and don't waste your time.

[SoleMate]

In about 6 weeks, I am going across the country for a media event, lasting 4 days....we will be staying in the same room, over 4 days and she says she is fine with it....

DON'T stay in the same room. And rethink the whole trip altogether.

 

If you need help with the above, please let your manager, HR, your wife, and the women's parents all now your travel plans and feelings about your young intern. They will help you understand why this is such a crappy idea.

 

If you care about this young woman AT ALL, do her the enormous favor of NOT pulling her into an affair with a MM. They are VERY destructive to the OW, especially one as young as this.

 

Or, if you must pursue her, put that aside for 6-12 months while you divorce your wife. If you can't divorce your wife for reasons X, Y and Z, then guess what....you also can't chase the intern for those exact same reasons.

 

You're not the first married person who fell in love and got foggy. This is garden variety stuff.

[greengoddess]

I really feel sorry for you because I can tell you are going to go for it. With that will come pain for all involved. You will have a blast for A while but as you continue with the ow and she falls more in love with you and you her you will be found out.

 

If you are going to go for it and will not be honest with your wife then I urge you at least to be honest with this young woman. Tell her although you are developing strong feelings for her you want nothing more than an affair. Tell this young woman that you love your wife but are missing intimacy in your life and really feel you want to have sex with her because of this great connection you have. Tell this young woman that you have no intention of leaving your wife and that you are too lazy to take the steps necessary to either fix your marriage or leave your marriage. Tell this young woman you really enjoy your talks and her company and feel a connection so you would like her to be your mistress so you can have your wife and home and playtime and intimacy with her. Be honest with this young woman and let her choose on honesty what she really wants.

 

I would tell you to be honest with your wife but I can tell you have decided to have a little romp with this young woman already.

[foggyandconfused]

If you are going to go for it and will not be honest with your wife then I urge you at least to be honest with this young woman. Tell her although you are developing strong feelings for her you want nothing more than an affair. Tell this young woman that you love your wife but are missing intimacy in your life and really feel you want to have sex with her because of this great connection you have. Tell this young woman that you have no intention of leaving your wife and that you are too lazy to take the steps necessary to either fix your marriage or leave your marriage. Tell this young woman you really enjoy your talks and her company and feel a connection so you would like her to be your mistress so you can have your wife and home and playtime and intimacy with her. Be honest with this young woman and let her choose on honesty what she really wants.

 

I would tell you to be honest with your wife but I can tell you have decided to have a little romp with this young woman already.

 

I would say this to my friend, but it is not even close to how I feel. I will be filing for divorce, just not at this very moment. I am doing it on my terms and nobody else's.

 

I would love a long term relationship with my friend and I firmly believe it is heading in that direction. As charged up as she was Saturday night when we were in the park, there is no way she is just acting, or has just a desire to be just friends.

 

We will talk more when I meet her for dinner tonight. She has offered to take me out, as a thanks for the date we had this weekend.

 

I was talking to the guy who offered her the job and we are going to have him call her and invite her in for an interview and then offer her the job himself. That way there is no way she can be biased for or against me by the job and there will be no pressure to accept or deny the job. The only way I will be mentioned is when the guy offering her the job acknowledges knowing me, when he sees my name as a reference on her resume. So there will be no way I can "hold that over her head."