freestyle Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 This forum is about SUPPORT and DISCUSSION. This does not mean that everyone must be in agreement, or believe in A's to post here. This does not mean that it's a forum to rally around people in A's and cheer them on. For example...take an intervention for an alcoholic or drug user. An alcoholic/drug user is usually in denial about his problem when it gets to the point of an intervention. He certainly doesn't see the intervention as supportive, but that's exactly what it is. The people that care, care about his life, not his choice to ruin it. Support comes in different forms and it takes an open minded and mature person to understand that. An alcoholic doesn't go to an AA meeting to drink. He goes to a bar where he's surrounding by like minded people. If he went to a bar that didn't serve his type of alcohol, he'd choose another bar. He wouldn't sit at the bar complaining day after day that they don't serve his type of alcohol while holding an empty glass . Excellent analogy, S.I.T.---well done.
jwi71 Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 I was thinking about it, and maybe ms. daisy is right ( in her own way) pretty much everyone on here was, at one time, in love, and believed that our love would last. I know I did. When my husband and I were newlyweds, if someone had come along and said to me "sorry to rain on your parade, but in 13 years your husband is going to cheat on you and make you feel worse than you have ever felt before", I wouldn't have believed them and I would have wondered why they were saying that. I wouldn't have realized that maybe the person saw signs in our relationship that foretold trouble, maybe they were just trying to help me from being hurt later on., etc. All I would probably have seen is that they were being hurtful they didn't know him like I did, he was a wonderful guy who loved me and would never, ever hurt me, who wouldn't ever even think of being with someone else, etc. Maybe if someone had a "crystal ball" back then, I would have seen what was coming and I could have done things to try and keep it from happening-but, realistically, I don't think I would have listened to them. Apples to oranges. In what you say, yes, I agree. When your unmarried and single and living in your hemisphere SO tie the knot, yes just about everyone would agree with your point. But Daisy's SO isnot only married but lives across the country with his W and has managed to NOT file for D. Very different scenario. In your case it's quite plausible. And in the Daisy's....we have lots of bridges and poor Billy goats gruff. We LSers would be the goats.
fascinated Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 I've always thought that when a MM marries his mistress, it creates an opening for the mistress position. Same for the MW. I'd like to believe that some affairs work out, or that "everything happens for a reason" (which I do tend to believe), or some version of polyanna pooping rainbows that I can't quite embrace. Personally I tend to be more of a pessimist, so when things do work out, I can be pleasantly surprised!
Anna101 Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 I've always thought that when a MM marries his mistress, it creates an opening for the mistress position. Same for the MW. A saying probably coined by a BS or a scorned OW. Affairs are no more the same than all marriages are the same.
AuthenticBliss Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 A saying probably coined by a BS or a scorned OW. LOL, neither. It was a famous saying by eccentric poet (and wayward spouse) Oscar Wilde.
SoleMate Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Owl said: ...given that there is likely an equal number of people who have been hurt and devestated by an affair as those that have somehow benefitted from one... I don't believe it. Statistics are close to non-existent, but I see no reason to assume that affairs are even as good as a zero-sum game. They are likely a net negative sum game, when all participants (willing and unwilling, knowing and unknowing) are accounted for: MM, OW, BW, BH, OM, MW.
OWoman Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 LOL, neither. It was a famous saying by eccentric poet (and wayward spouse) Oscar Wilde. ...who was gay, so clearly no expert on the desires or behaviours of a heterosexual man.
thomasb Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) So if you are gay you have no feelings of love or betrayal. Get real. And by the by, he was married and had two children. His wifes name was Constance. Edited May 5, 2011 by thomasb
OWoman Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 So if you are gay you have no feelings of love or betrayal. Huh? Not sure how you read that into what I said, but believe what you wish. Oscar Wilde's quote said, "A man who marries his mistress leaves a vacancy in that position". I don't see how that equates to claiming that gay men have no feelings of love or betrayal. However, I did claim that as a gay man, he would not know how a heterosexual man would feel or behave in that context. Get real. And by the by, he was married and had two children. His wifes name was Constance. Which changes what I wrote, exactly, how? Are you claiming that no gay men ever marry to cover for their being gay - especially when homosexuality is illegal? Or are you claiming that having married and sired kids (while having gay lovers on the side) his gayness was somehow erased and he wasn't really gay after all - despite being tried, convicted and jailed for it? I'm really not sure what your point is here - could you please explain?
thomasb Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 My point is, all people have feelings of love, hate, whatever. Irregardless of their proclivities. now off to earn my nickel!
Mimolicious Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 To the OP- What are you benchmarking "happiness" with though? How is it "working out"? Is it because you are settling for the cards that you have been dealt with or because it "works out" overall and for all?
Mimolicious Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 ...who was gay, so clearly no expert on the desires or behaviours of a heterosexual man. Right... your comment is so sexist and ignorant. :lmao: You make it sound like a gay person is unhuman and won't cheat on their S, wife up the AP. Which by then kinda leaves plenty of vacancy. So your point of trying to single out one's sexual preference was?? I wasn't aware that heterosexual man were exclusive members of the cheating club nor that gay men were exempted from having "mistresses". Pwhahaha!
linwood Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Because affairs never work out, and it's a situation that is the complete opposite of happiness. Screwing someone's wife or husband does not display happiness, sorry. Mine did, married 11 years, 3 kids disgustingly happy. I wasn`t married but in a serious LTR. It was often ugly at the time but I wouldn`t have the life I do now without it. I wouldn`t trade my life for anything.
OWoman Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Right... your comment is so sexist and ignorant. :lmao: You make it sound like a gay person is unhuman and won't cheat on their S, wife up the AP. Which by then kinda leaves plenty of vacancy. So your point of trying to single out one's sexual preference was?? I wasn't aware that heterosexual man were exclusive members of the cheating club nor that gay men were exempted from having "mistresses". Pwhahaha! You can read my post any way you choose - the way it was written and intended, or whatever misreading you choose to project. I'm happy to allow you your prejudices since they don't impact on my life however hard you may try. To return to the topic, though - happiness, when it is found, should be celebrated and enjoyed. Those who don't have it and who feel jealous of those of us who do, would benefit more by finding their own rather than trying to diminish the happiness of those who have it. More happiness all round is always better than less.
OWoman Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Is it really so hard to understand a simple point - anyone can make up witty sayings about situations they have no experience of; the sayings might be witty, but that doesn't make them true.
Mimolicious Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Is it really so hard to understand a simple point - anyone can make up witty sayings about situations they have no experience of; the sayings might be witty, but that doesn't make them true. I am glad you recognize this. You wouldn't happen to be a gay man, right? (neither a heterosexual one).
OWoman Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 ummm... not sure if you intened it or not, but that is a very homophobic statement... are you saying that a gay man/woman doesn't understand/experience romantic feelings just like heterosexual people do? No, that was neither what I said nor what I meant.
OWoman Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 ummm... this is your direct quote: "who was gay, so clearly no expert on the desires or behaviours of a heterosexual man" so, do you mean that a gay person can only have a valid opinion on love between two gay people? love is love, desire is desire, whether you are gay, straight or otherwise. Just because you don't like a particular quote, this does not mean that you can disqualify it's relevance because it was written by a man who was gay. The quote was not about love or desire. The quote was about behaviour of a man who marries his OW.
LilyBart Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 To return to the topic, though - happiness, when it is found, should be celebrated and enjoyed. Those who don't have it and who feel jealous of those of us who do, would benefit more by finding their own rather than trying to diminish the happiness of those who have it. More happiness all round is always better than less. In a nutshell, this is it (above, bold). And I agree, I do think "those who don't have it" would be better off trying to find their own instead of trying to "dimish the happiness of those who have it". But then again, no matter which part you've played (former or current, married or not, betrayed or other) you can pretty much tell who's happy and who's not - via their posts. Keep that in mind Daisy.
LifesontheUp Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 i'm all for happiness. However let's not glorify an affair under the name of happiness or love. It is an affair which means someone is usually being lied too and deceived and ultimately ends up being hurt. Selfish springs to mind.
silktricks Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Is it really so hard to understand a simple point - anyone can make up witty sayings about situations they have no experience of; the sayings might be witty, but that doesn't make them true. Because a man loves men doesn't mean that he doesn't also love women, ya know . Not saying that his witty saying was or wasn't true, just saying that his apparently larger appetites do not preclude his understanding heterosexual as well as homosexual experience, as not all men who have sex with men are "gay" just as not all men who have sex with women are "straight". But back to the OP: Obviously some affairs do end in permanent happy relationships. Some of my very best friends are in marriages that began as affairs. However, the odds don't seem to be good for eventual happiness. As for not celebrating in your happiness - that would feel something like dancing a jig on a boat headed for Niagara Falls. Though it's possible that everyone will survive the fall and be happy, the likelihood is greater that there will be a catastrophe followed by severe pain. We could all pretend there is no cascade just downstream, but that wouldn't be showing much care either. Edited May 5, 2011 by silktricks
SidLyon Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) As I understand it he was bisexual and cheating on his wife with the lovely Fred. Thus, could be fully expected to understand the perspective of a cheating hubby. It shows complete ignorance to suggest otherwise. He also said: Those who are faithful know only the trivial side of love; it is the faithless who know love's tragedies. Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891 I expect this is something many fully heterosexual WHs know about. At one stage I found this same quote on an e-mail my fWH sent to his OW. Edited to add: I have read most of Oscar Wilde's works and it is his ability to read and describe human nature in all its manifestations that makes him so timeless, interesting and relevant today. Edited May 5, 2011 by SidLyon
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