Responsibility to society

[Mimolicious]

Having been raped, I feel compelled to respond here. For me, the infidelity was much much worse. It shattered me. See, rape I was able to understand that it was not about me at all, AND I was able to get justice. With the infidelity, however, there was no justice no matter how much my soul screamed for it.

 

Rape and infidelity are both emotional torture and for some, rape may be worse, but not for all. I've been destroyed by this and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. I'm more helpless now than I was with the rape. Think of it as emotional rape...there is no end in sight.

 

 

I wonder if the order of the events has anything to do with the magnitude of your feelings towards each. God bless your heart and I am sorry that you had to be victim of either or. (hug)

[donnamaybe]

I co-sign it! I'm starting to feel the same. Actually, within my own circle. Trust me, my guestlist has decreased tremendously. I'm not 16 anymore and those around me that still want to play games with their families and relationships, have no business being a part of my circle. That is not what I am about. Hey, guess what, my changes of having to tell a friend of their SO trashy behavior is cut by 60%. (at least). LOL!

I also don't allow that type in my circle of friends. You know what they say about one rotten apple spoiling the whole bunch.

[silktricks]

The posts that say 'you must tell on someone having an affair' is not a view I recognise readily from my experiences or the culture I'm used to.

 

My husband and I were talking about this very thing last night...

 

Our views were slightly different.

 

Me: If it was a friend of mine who I knew was being cheated on. I would tell her. If she was having an affair, I would tell her that she should end the affair. If she didn't end it, I would tell her about my own experiences. If that had no effect either, I'd start to curtail our interactions, probably slowly ending the friendship over time.

 

My husband: If it was a friend of his who he knew was being cheated on, he said he would first go to his wife and tell her that he knew and that she needed to tell her husband. If he realized she hadn't told he said he would create a situation that would expose the illicit relationship. If his friend was having an affair, he would tell the friend to tell his wife, but he would also terminate the friendship.

 

For both of us, if it was just a passing acquaintance, we wouldn't do anything other than avoid being embroiled in any portion of the situation.

Edited May 5, 2011 by silktricks

[Mimolicious]

I also don't allow that type in my circle of friends. You know what they say about one rotten apple spoiling the whole bunch.

 

Rotten or not, it will kinda make a hypocrite out of me if I did put up with it. I am a little too grown and now what I stand for. Any behavior that doesn't comply with my standards, I don't need to put up with such.

 

I have dear relatives that I have cut off for swinging by my house with a side-b*tch or cousins who have flushed their youth away for tagging a long with MM. Their endings= all the same. I don't see any bliss, unicorns and rainbows in any of their lives. Nothing special about them...

[jwi71]

 

I don't have the opinion that anyone who cheats, automatically becomes unworthy of my friendship. I think we are all human, and there are few mistakes, errors of judgements, outright f***-ups that would lead me to write off a person.

 

 

I had a knee jerk reaction to this - as if you were somehow implying that I readily abandon friends. I don't of course, I often stay past when others would leave. I know you weren't.

 

But I do have limits and part of it stems from your assertion/belief that an A is a mistake.

 

To explain, an A is NEVER a mistake. And we can examine that in two contexts. First, no person ever begins an activity or course of action they KNOW at the outset to be a mistake. They are choosing, at the time of decision, the RIGHT course of action in their mind - otherwise they wouldn't do it. They either chose to enter the A (the right decision at the time in their mind) or do not (the mistake at that time in their mind). In sum, the decision is a choice and the right one in the AP's mind at that decision point. It only becomes a mistake AFTER "bad things happen".

 

Secondly, we can view mistake in the context of right and wrong. And again, and to keep this brief, the AP either has a moral code which allows for one to engage in an A. It was not a mistake in that sense as the moral code governing such actions was insufficient to prevent the action. IT is likely justified by <<whatever>>.

 

Because I do NOT believe that an A is mistake akin to misplacing one's keys, I find A's to be carefully planned and orchestrated conspiracies of lies, deceit, backstabbing and all the other sordid activities AP's MUST engage in. That type of person is, quite overtly, displaying characteristics I do NOT want to be around.

 

I do not want to be associated with someone who is shown in practice what they may decide to do TO me.

[Silly_Girl]

I had a knee jerk reaction to this - as if you were somehow implying that I readily abandon friends. I don't of course, I often stay past when others would leave.

 

I didn't say that

 

I know you weren't.[/Quote]

 

 

But I do have limits and part of it stems from your assertion/belief that an A is a mistake.

 

I didn't say that either.

 

I merely am not stating that I have a rule whereby I automatically refuse to be friends with someone who has had, is having, or will have an affair. Or any one of a number of other points of issue.

 

A friend of mine had an abortion and (not that I'll go in to the details here) I TOTALLY disagreed with the decision and the circumstances. But we are still friends. I'm only pointing out I'm less rigid in that way. It would take a lot for me to end a friendship that mattered to me, and I'd weigh everything up, it wouldn't be as much a box-ticking exercise for me as for others whose opinions I have read.

[OWoman]

For discussion purposes, wouldn't it be reasonable to think that someone in an A could be putting their uninformed spouse in potentially dangerous situations? The AP could have STD's that could injur or kill the BS. The AP could be crazy or have a crazy spouse who could render significant harm and/or death to the MP or the BS. The A could result in pregnancy that could have a significant financial impact on all involved.

 

So why does the line get drawn to children only? Your examples are very pointed about the ability to give consent. A BS doesn't have that ability when they are kept in the dark.

 

Children (typically) lack the life experience on which to base such judgments, together with the cocktail of hormonal and emotional turbulence that adolescence brings, which can render their judgment vulnerable. They also lack the control over, and sometimes agency in, their circumstances afforded to adults through systems and processes. Children are structurally disadvantaged in ways that adults are not.

 

With regard to your examples - yes, those are possible, if the WS is someone who is negligent and lacks judgment; but then those qualities are likely to manifest in other ways in the M too, so the BS's choice to remain with a spouse who demonstrates negligence or poor judgment is opening the BS up to all sorts of consequences of that; of which the risks you describe are but a few. Part of marrying someone is opening yourself to all sorts of risks attendant on allowing someone else intimate access to yourself, your life and your (current or future) offspring. In making the judgment call of whom you marry, you are weighing those risks, considering the consequences and then acting on those calculations. During the M, those calculations get adjusted daily, and the outcome either affirmed (of having made the right choice, and feeling happy and secure in the M) or brought into question (doubting the choice, questioning whether to remain M).

 

I'm not saying that the BS deserves any of the consequences you describe; but I am saying that they have agency (they could have tossed out their negligent or judgment-impaired spouse when those qualities manifested themselves in other ways) which a child typically does not have.

[donnamaybe]

With regard to your examples - yes, those are possible, if the WS is someone who is negligent and lacks judgment; but then those qualities are likely to manifest in other ways in the M too, so the BS's choice to remain with a spouse who demonstrates negligence or poor judgment is opening the BS up to all sorts of consequences of that; of which the risks you describe are but a few.

I believe she was talking about the OW/OM having "scary" qualities that they may successfully hide from the WS during the A which may then manifest themselves in attacks on the BS - the person whose place they would like to take, ala Fatal Attraction.

[OWoman]

I believe she was talking about the OW/OM having "scary" qualities that they may successfully hide from the WS during the A which may then manifest themselves in attacks on the BS - the person whose place they would like to take, ala Fatal Attraction.

 

In other words, the BS has married (and continues to be M to) a negligent WS. Their choice.

[donnamaybe]

In other words, the BS has married (and continues to be M to) a negligent WS. Their choice.

We all know that's not what she meant. However, you only strengthen the stance that the BS SHOULD be told.

 

MANY people are very good at hiding those kind of qualities. Gee - don't we know of a guy who was married to a psycho for literally YEARS?

 

Must've been negligent.

[fooled once]

Anyone who says they would NOT be grateful if someone were caring enough to tell them their spouse was having an affair, and would think a person who told intrusive and butting into her business would certainly be one who preffers to go through life in denial.

 

I do not go by the adage of "Mind your own business"and ignore when you see other people in harms way physically or emotionally..ESPECIALLY people you care about.

, If I had a business partner that was embezzaling and someone knew, I would want someone to tell me.

 

If I had a child and she or he was being promiscous or doing drugs and someone knew, please tell me so I could get help before they become an emotional mess or addicted.

 

If my child was being a bully or disrespectful, please tell me.

 

If I knew someone was a potential molester and they had access to children, please say it. I watched my family suspect a cousin of mine was being sexually molested by her father. As kids we all knew something was wrong. NOT ONE of the grown-ups did ANYTHING!!!! My uncle was having sex with my cousin from the time she was 8 yrs old, And everyone went HUSH!!! She is an emotional mess now.

 

I still ask all my aunts and my mother why noone reported it. They said they were not 100% sure. So you have to be 100 sure to report it? I hold them all accountable for years of pain my cousin went through.

 

I have outed 2 of my father's affairs. My sister has outed my other sister's affair after she tried to use her as an aliby.

 

Wrong is wrong.

 

Used to be that people watched out for each other and each other's children. Now society cares more about "not getting involved". Are we not supposed to watch out for or brother and help others?

 

really good post!!!

 

Having been raped, I feel compelled to respond here. For me, the infidelity was much much worse. It shattered me. See, rape I was able to understand that it was not about me at all, AND I was able to get justice. With the infidelity, however, there was no justice no matter how much my soul screamed for it.

 

Rape and infidelity are both emotional torture and for some, rape may be worse, but not for all. I've been destroyed by this and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. I'm more helpless now than I was with the rape. Think of it as emotional rape...there is no end in sight.

 

I am so sorry for what you have gone through. I was raped in college - I was a virgin at the time. It had quite an affect on me and i cannot image having to deal with that past and a betrayal of someone I loved and trusted.

 

I hope good things are in your future.

 

My first thought was that for every action there is a reaction. In an A, you chose to intervene, or insert yourself into someone else's life without their knowledge or consent so I find the question a little odd frankly.

 

Just as someone may find adultery not to be a sin or a moral wrong, someone will. And if that someone who does have knowledge of an A, and their personal beliefs say that they should inform the BS, who's to say that's wrong? Or right for that matter? It's a personal choice. We all live by our own personal codes. I don't understand the mindset that one should be able to do as they choose without regard for the harm done to others, but think that someone having knowledge of it should be expected to honor secrecy and would be possibly crossing any boundaries by telling what they know

 

Having said that though, to answer it in the context in which I believe it is being asked, I would ask if in your country you witness a hit and run accident and you have the opportunity to record the license plate and turn the information over to the police, are you saying your laws discourage you from doing so? I understand not actually getting physically involved in any type of altercation, but to witness a crime and be able to provide good evidence, that is still discouraged? Are you discouraged from giving aid to someone who is choking, having a seizure, a heart attack, or is somehow injured? Because to me, that would be more along the same lines as someone having knoweldge of an A and reporting it to the BS. I think comparing it to jumping in a brawl to stop it is a bit far fetched. That would be more like someone seeing you having sex and trying to pull him off of you

 

There are good samaritan laws that exist I believe in all 50 states and most, if not all, European countries. It seems that in this debate, you are pulling a very small example of one law to apply it to this situation. I realize this is for debate/discussion purposes, but the rationale and examples are a bit skewed IMO.

 

Great post.

 

I also think there is a huge difference in knowing a FRIEND is being cheated on and knowing that the check out lady at the grocery store is being cheated on.

 

I would also want my friend who is being cheated on to be proactive on ensuring that their cheating spouse isn't spending marital money on his mistress. I would want to ensure that my friend protects her children against a possible bunny boiler who may not take rejection well when the spouse ends the affair.

 

As a friend, I can't stand by and watch my friend's life get torn apart and keep my lips zipped. That's just wrong on every level for me. I realize there are plenty of others who have no issue with that (keeping their lips zipped), but that just isn't who I am.

[bentnotbroken]

really good post!!!

 

 

 

I am so sorry for what you have gone through. I was raped in college - I was a virgin at the time. It had quite an affect on me and i cannot image having to deal with that past and a betrayal of someone I loved and trusted.

 

I hope good things are in your future.

 

 

 

Great post.

 

I also think there is a huge difference in knowing a FRIEND is being cheated on and knowing that the check out lady at the grocery store is being cheated on.

 

I would also want my friend who is being cheated on to be proactive on ensuring that their cheating spouse isn't spending marital money on his mistress. I would want to ensure that my friend protects her children against a possible bunny boiler who may not take rejection well when the spouse ends the affair.

 

As a friend, I can't stand by and watch my friend's life get torn apart and keep my lips zipped. That's just wrong on every level for me. I realize there are plenty of others who have no issue with that (keeping their lips zipped), but that just isn't who I am.

 

There were adults who knew that Mr. Messy was cheating and who he was cheating with. Some were acquaintances, others I considered friends. The acquaintances I get to a point, the friends I don't. They allowed me to be exposed to whatever he was exposed to. Needless to say I don't need anyone in my life who would stand by and allow me(and my children via their emotional and physical stability)to be abused and placed into harms way. With friends like that, who needs enemies.

[bentnotbroken]

I believe she was talking about the OW/OM having "scary" qualities that they may successfully hide from the WS during the A which may then manifest themselves in attacks on the BS - the person whose place they would like to take, ala Fatal Attraction.

 

 

You know stuff like this happens so rarely that they actually report it a lot in many areas of the U.S. even if they don't in other countries. You know by the very nature of being a WS you are being negligent and poor judgment, but I guess it is so rare...it really doesn't matter for the small number of people actually on the receiving end of the the negligence and poor judgment. Hmm, whoda thunk it?

[Silly_Girl]

There were adults who knew that Mr. Messy was cheating and who he was cheating with. Some were acquaintances, others I considered friends. The acquaintances I get to a point, the friends I don't. They allowed me to be exposed to whatever he was exposed to. Needless to say I don't need anyone in my life who would stand by and allow me(and my children via their emotional and physical stability)to be abused and placed into harms way. With friends like that, who needs enemies.

 

Bent, did you ever hear from these people what their reasoning was? Did they explain their choice?

[Mimolicious]

I believe she was talking about the OW/OM having "scary" qualities that they may successfully hide from the WS during the A which may then manifest themselves in attacks on the BS - the person whose place they would like to take, ala Fatal Attraction.

 

 

Been there done that! But let me guess, some would say that it was good that I was assaulted by the OW because I was M to my H. So I deserved it. Lucky for me, my mother didn't raise a punk.

 

I thought we were not entitled to fabricate facts. No comprendo....

[Silly_Girl]

But let me guess, some would say that it was good that I was assaulted by the OW because I was M to my H. So I deserved it.

 

What?! Who are the 'some'?

[gogoasxrjwsi]

As a result of you - this is very constructive ! קורס מסחר יומי