Silly_Girl Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 The posts that say 'you must tell on someone having an affair' is not a view I recognise readily from my experiences or the culture I'm used to. That said, I'm also not used to lots of enabling/encouraging of infidelity, and it's not 'expected' where I live as it is elsewhere in the world. So, the policing of my actions by another... Just curious as to where the boundaries are. When does someone have the right to intervene in my life? Does it depend on who they are or does it not matter? Is it only with affairs or are there more things I could expect a friend to approach my partner about, for example? I think I'm right in saying there's no law in the UK that says you are culpable if you don't step in when you could have done, where violence is being perpetrated etc. In fact, this brand of 'heroism' is discouraged. So are we more evolved than our laws? Will they catch up with the morals of some of the LS posters? Will those with knowledge of something - who does nothing - be charged with some sort of secondary blame? Thanks for any input. I'm intrigued
Breezy Trousers Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Just curious as to where the boundaries are. When does someone have the right to intervene in my life? Well, no offense, but I can't help wondering if BS wouldn't ask the same thing. Wow, Silly, who knows? It's a complicated issue. I can only speak from experience -- I could have easily outed my (near-)MM and his new target to HR but I'm not interested. I feel their relationship is none of my business. I learned a lot of powerful lessons from my two-year experience with MM. Maybe his OW has her own lessons to learn, too. Initially, I did worry if I should out MM to protect OW -- MM has scared the @#!*% out of me with behavior, causing me to believe he's abusive toward women and unstable. Then I realized that our intuition provides each of us with warnings. It was listening to my intuition which ultimately protected me from MM. I have to trust his new OW has had similar internal warnings. It's her decision to live her life as she chooses, and, of course, to accept the consequences. Free will. I certainly don't want to get involved in a triangle of any sort. MM love that crap -- more attention, please! .... I'll pass. I had a therapy session with a professional to help me get over residual fears of MM when he was acting out anger toward me last fall. The therapist strongly disagreed with my philosophy with regard to OW. He believes I am a strong person, which is why I resisted getting hooked in by MM, but that, in time, someone less strong could become seriously damaged by the man. In the end, we agreed to disagree. I believe MM is a serial cheater, so there's no point in involving the wife. Not that I would, anyway. I have faith that when someone is supposed to find out about something, it will happen, and it will happen right on time. No accidents. Everyone has a different opinion on this. Every set of circumstances is different, too. I may respond differently to a different set of circumstances. Edited May 3, 2011 by Breezy Trousers
jwi71 Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 The posts that say 'you must tell on someone having an affair' is not a view I recognise readily from my experiences or the culture I'm used to. That said, I'm also not used to lots of enabling/encouraging of infidelity, and it's not 'expected' where I live as it is elsewhere in the world. IF you had a sister and you KNEW her H was cheating...would you tell? Or look the other way? If you someday have a D, and you KNEW her H was cheating...would you tell? Or look the other way? I KNOW what sounds argumentative but I don't mean it to be. I want to you to explore under what circumstances would you "tattle tell" on a WS and when you wouldn't. Then I would ask why in case you would (if so) and in another you would not (if the case). Everyone who knows me IRL already knows...if you are cheating best not let me know. I'll call the spouse right then and there - and they know it. I;m not worried about losing the friendship - if they cheat, I don't WANT to be their friend. So...are there any circumstances you would HIDE an A? Any where you would disclose? Why the difference? (if applicable) So, the policing of my actions by another... Just curious as to where the boundaries are. When does someone have the right to intervene in my life? Would you want to know if your SO was cheating? Personally I would. In fact, someone told me my now xWW had resumed contact with her OM. Trust me, I have never been so sad (in my now xWW) and so happy (to have been told). I guess I would want to live in a society in which were I being wronged unbeknownst to me - that someone would tell me. Ignorance is NOT bliss. Does it depend on who they are or does it not matter? Is it only with affairs or are there more things I could expect a friend to approach my partner about, for example? Doesn't matter who, the above person I mention I never knew EXISTED until I got the email. And, for me, if I am being wronged and don't know it - tell me. Knowledge is power. I think I'm right in saying there's no law in the UK that says you are culpable if you don't step in when you could have done, where violence is being perpetrated etc. IT is codified in Texas. Failure to render aid, its a crime to fail to render aid. I would HATE to live in a society where people would silently and carelessly pass me by should I need aid. Sad. So are we more evolved than our laws? I think laws exist because there will always be scumbags posing as humans and laws are designed to set the boundaries of acceptable behavior within a population. Some are formally codified, others "unwritten". We humans cannot claim we are evolved until the need of codified laws has passed. Will those with knowledge of something - who does nothing - be charged with some sort of secondary blame? If you know someone will be murdered and you fail to act...are YOU culpable? This is great 1L stuff. And, yes, you are in the eyes of US law. I would apply the same logic to someone who knows of an A and fails to inform the BS- you are GUILTY of hiding and thereby perpetuating the A. In my eyes anyway. I simply believe we are all members of a society. And that society as a whole defines the limits of acceptable behavior (laws and social norms) and membership to the society (and its benefits) requirements adherence to aforementioned laws and norms. If these laws and norms are unacceptable to you, either go underground (as in an A or criminals) or leave the society for one whose laws and norms parallel your own. My .02 if its worth even that. 1
Leelou Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) So, the policing of my actions by another... Just curious as to where the boundaries are. When does someone have the right to intervene in my life? Does it depend on who they are or does it not matter? The boundaries between you and your friend (or anyone) are where YOU place them. If you allow yourself to be advised by your friend without inviting them to do so, then that is the boundary you have allowed between the two of you. So your friend or family member will intervene in your life as much as you allow them to (as close to where you place the boundaries between you two). As a parent, I may be used to telling my children what to do and to intervene in their lives, right up until the point where they redefine the boundaries and firmly tell me that if they don't specifically ask me for my advice, I should not give it. And so too, should you be firm with YOUR boundaries. As they say, you teach others how to treat you. How? By where you draw the line, and what you allow them to get away with the first time. Then they will know what they can get away with. It doesn't really matter who they are (friend, family member, teacher, colleague, interviewer, therapist) if YOU ALLOW them to 'police your actions' then don't be surprised if they do just that. In fact, this brand of 'heroism' is discouraged. So are we more evolved than our laws? Will they catch up with the morals of some of the LS posters? Will those with knowledge of something - who does nothing - be charged with some sort of secondary blame? When someone has been deeply hurt by a betrayal from the person they least expected it from -- their spouse -- they are apt to be sensitized to the subject matter. The morals of the LS posters may well be the same as the man on the street who has not been betrayed, but they will voice their opinions louder. I myself did charge my H's and my college friend with some sort of secondary blame years later when I found out that he KNEW about my husband's affair while it was ongoing, and chose to keep quiet about it to me. I held this friend accountable. Because he was supposed to be MY friend too. Supposed to have loyalties to me too. Supposed to act in my best interests, and not LIE to ME, as he did, to help H cover his tracks. I trusted the friend, and so H went undetected and continued with several affairs more. I think you have a certain obligation to do what's right by your friend/relative if you know they are being cheated on, but you do not have the same burden to tell a complete stranger or a neighbor or someone you do not really know. This is because you do not know the repercussions that your telling will have. I used to be very opinionated about always TELLING the BS, back when I had been betrayed and found out on my own. But now, years later, I am not so sure that is always the best course of action to take. Having put the shoe on the other foot now (from being BS to WS), and also seeing 'innocent' spouses NOT being so innocent (you don't know the dynamics of their relationship, their relationship history, and what goes on behind closed doors), to say nothing of the repercussions your telling will have. So, like the tenet in Medicine, "First do no harm" and this entails Not Telling if you don't know those people involved, well enough. So don't put yourself in charge of some strangers' marital history and future ... stay out of it. Unless directly asked. Then, I say, don't cover up the cheating spouse's tracks by lying to the interested BS's face! It's tough. There are a lot of "if" "then" statements when it comes down to tell or not to tell. I don't even know myself, anymore, if one should or should not tell in every case. I used to say, "Hell yes!" but not anymore. It is not clear cut for all cases. But certainly, the part about your having Others telling you what to do and policing you, is up to what you let them get away with. Nobody gives you independence. You fight for it, or you take it. Edited May 3, 2011 by Leelou
jlola Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Anyone who says they would NOT be grateful if someone were caring enough to tell them their spouse was having an affair, and would think a person who told intrusive and butting into her business would certainly be one who preffers to go through life in denial. I do not go by the adage of "Mind your own business"and ignore when you see other people in harms way physically or emotionally..ESPECIALLY people you care about. , If I had a business partner that was embezzaling and someone knew, I would want someone to tell me. If I had a child and she or he was being promiscous or doing drugs and someone knew, please tell me so I could get help before they become an emotional mess or addicted. If my child was being a bully or disrespectful, please tell me. If I knew someone was a potential molester and they had access to children, please say it. I watched my family suspect a cousin of mine was being sexually molested by her father. As kids we all knew something was wrong. NOT ONE of the grown-ups did ANYTHING!!!! My uncle was having sex with my cousin from the time she was 8 yrs old, And everyone went HUSH!!! She is an emotional mess now. I still ask all my aunts and my mother why noone reported it. They said they were not 100% sure. So you have to be 100 sure to report it? I hold them all accountable for years of pain my cousin went through. I have outed 2 of my father's affairs. My sister has outed my other sister's affair after she tried to use her as an aliby. Wrong is wrong. Used to be that people watched out for each other and each other's children. Now society cares more about "not getting involved". Are we not supposed to watch out for or brother and help others? 1
OWoman Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 The posts that say 'you must tell on someone having an affair' is not a view I recognise readily from my experiences or the culture I'm used to. That said, I'm also not used to lots of enabling/encouraging of infidelity, and it's not 'expected' where I live as it is elsewhere in the world. So, the policing of my actions by another... Just curious as to where the boundaries are. When does someone have the right to intervene in my life? Does it depend on who they are or does it not matter? Is it only with affairs or are there more things I could expect a friend to approach my partner about, for example? I think I'm right in saying there's no law in the UK that says you are culpable if you don't step in when you could have done, where violence is being perpetrated etc. In fact, this brand of 'heroism' is discouraged. So are we more evolved than our laws? Will they catch up with the morals of some of the LS posters? Will those with knowledge of something - who does nothing - be charged with some sort of secondary blame? Thanks for any input. I'm intrigued Re: the bolded - I guess the nearest would be if you know that a crime is about to be committed, or you know who committed a crime and choose to protect their identity, you can be charged as an accessory before, or after, the fact, respectively. And I'm not sure about the UK, but many countries have laws about child abuse - if you have a reasonable suspicion that a child is being, or has been, abused, you're obligated by law to report it. But those laws pertain to crimes - and even there, the obligation is not to get involved, but to report the knowledge (or suspicion) to the authorities, who will make the call on whether or not to act. My own views depend very much on situation and context. If I discovered that the child of a friend was putting themself in danger by prostituting themself to wealthy men to earn money to buy drugs outside the local mall, when their mother thought they were "at the movies" with their friends, I would certainly tell her. Whatever views I may hold on a child's right to their own sexuality would be mediated by the knowledge that the (potentially dangerous) drugs they were taking were impacting on their ability to give informed consent and the knowledge of the potentially dangerous situations that might arise for that child in that compromised situation. And I would be willing to accept whatever consequences arose - if the child denied it, and the parent chose to believe them and take issue with my "meddling", so be it. That child's safety would be more important to me than maintaining a friendship - especially a friendship with "no go" areas - at all costs. If I saw the partner of a friend sneaking a smoke around the corner, having "given up" smoking, I wouldn't shop them. If an informed adult chooses to take risks with their health, that is their choice; if they choose to hide it from their partner, that is between the two of them. I am not the secret police. But neither will I be drawn into some web of complicity - if on a subsequent occasion we're talking about brands of cigarettes and I unthinkingly mention the partner as a consumer of brand X, I won't see that as a betrayal of a state secret either. I'm neither bound to reveal the secret, nor protect it. I'm simply not party to it being a secret - that is between the two of them.
djhall Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 It is an interesting question... There was a local story about a teenage girl that was gang raped by several boys outside a school dance, and the worst part of the story to many was the revelation that several dozen other people knew about it, watched, took pictures, went and got friends to come look, but no one reported it to law enforcement or school officials or did anything to try to stop it. Were they morally wrong... I think so. I certainly could not stand by and do nothing, and I could not respect anyone who chose to stand by and do nothing, even something low risk like telling a teacher, while another human being was brutally victimized. In that context, a secret affair may not be a crime, but it is almost always a victimization of the betrayed spouse. The fact that the betrayed spouse doesn't yet know they are being victimized doesn't make them any less of a victim than the person who has been robbed but doesn't yet know it. Failing to act enables the BS to contine being victimized and contributes to the magnitude of the betrayal. One could make a decent argument that failing to notify a BS and allowing the victimization to continue is similar to seeing a girl who is being raped and failing to notify the authorities to stop it. Many people are uncomfortable with this line of thinking because it has disturbing implications. If we bear responsibility not only for our actions, but also for our failure to act, what stops us from carrying responsibility for every awful human suffering we enounter and could alleviate but choose not to? If I'm on my way to buy a bigger television, and I pass a homeless woman with two hungry kids, am I responsible for failing to stop and feed her kids instead of turning a blind eye and carrying on to buy my toy instead? It is easier to simply deny any responsibility to act or any responsibility for the consequences of our failure to act. Ultimatly, most people seem to agree with the need to tell when you add a personal relationship with the betrayed spouse such as when they are family or are also a personal friend. Now people feel like they are betraying their own relationship by witholding the information and need to tell. I suppose that is easier to be comfortable with since it limits our exposure to the vast amount of human need and suffering out there if we are only responsible to our family and people we choose as friends.
fascinated Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 I don't feel obligated to tell anyone about anything. I don't work with a set of fixed rules, tho. I might do it or might not depending on the circumstances, no fixed rules. But that's just me.
Woggle Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Like I said in the other thread though cheating is very wrong it can't compared to things like rape. There is a reason why one can get you a ton of jail time and one can't.
bentnotbroken Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Like I said in the other thread though cheating is very wrong it can't compared to things like rape. There is a reason why one can get you a ton of jail time and one can't. Nope they both don't come with jail time, but they both can be a death sentence.
Woggle Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Nope they both don't come with jail time, but they both can be a death sentence. Maybe so but anybody with some sense will say that rape is the worse thing. I never thought I would say this but I see much lying and dishonesty by people in relationships that I think I am becoming numb to it. I would never do it and I am glad that I am not being cheated on but I think I am past the point of being angry at a society that is rotten to the core. When I hear about it I just shake my head and move on anymore.
bentnotbroken Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Maybe so but anybody with some sense will say that rape is the worse thing. I never thought I would say this but I see much lying and dishonesty by people in relationships that I think I am becoming numb to it. I would never do it and I am glad that I am not being cheated on but I think I am past the point of being angry at a society that is rotten to the core. When I hear about it I just shake my head and move on anymore. I am not numb to it, but I do see it more than I care to acknowledge.
pureinheart Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) The posts that say 'you must tell on someone having an affair' is not a view I recognise readily from my experiences or the culture I'm used to. That said, I'm also not used to lots of enabling/encouraging of infidelity, and it's not 'expected' where I live as it is elsewhere in the world. So, the policing of my actions by another... Just curious as to where the boundaries are. When does someone have the right to intervene in my life? Does it depend on who they are or does it not matter? Is it only with affairs or are there more things I could expect a friend to approach my partner about, for example? I think I'm right in saying there's no law in the UK that says you are culpable if you don't step in when you could have done, where violence is being perpetrated etc. In fact, this brand of 'heroism' is discouraged. So are we more evolved than our laws? Will they catch up with the morals of some of the LS posters? Will those with knowledge of something - who does nothing - be charged with some sort of secondary blame? Thanks for any input. I'm intrigued Hey SG...we have two sitiations here, stepping in the event of infidelity, and stepping in in the event of violence. Because I think no two situations are exactly the same and no two people are exactly the same, I think each person and situation deserves it's own merit and generalities are hard to describe these two areas, but, and I know this is shocking, I do have an opinion:). In the case of infidelity, the most viable arguement I've seen for exposure and intervention is STD's. For all parties considered, this is not just protection for the BS, but the OM/OW who may not be aware of infidelity of the BS in the M, and the possible serial infidelity of MM/MW. Having infidelity cross the marital threshold has happened quite a bit in my life and there was only one time in which exposure was beneficial to me, and that was for spiritual purposes, wondering if I had grounds by God to D. Concerning the issue of physical violence against another, my personality would not rationalise the situation and I would most likely jump in, I've done it before. If I see an armed person threatening another I will talk them down...can't outrun a bullet, or a flying knife. I think it's all about the heart of the matter. In this life there are a lot of nosey people that donot have lives of their own, desiring validation by way of gossip and causing descentions. I had a neighbor that had too much time on her hands, and I'm thinking literally got off on outing others for all kinds of stuff...she was a horrible, miserable b*tch. It's funny because she was so self-righteous, yet her own "backyard" and heart were pigpens. She talked so much crap about others having A's, but she was continuously hitting on and flirting with my H and other men. In most cases SG I think that people need to mind their own business concerning intervention, although it depends on what type of intervention you are speaking...ok...like the TV show "Intervention"...this is a group of friends and family members that get together and hire a professional to intervine concerning overuse and abuse of drugs...they do what they can, but ultimately it is up to the drug abuser, they aren't "forced" per se into anything...the drug abuse will not get any help from family or friends should they continue to use, meaning everyone stops enabling with money or whatever. This is logical intervention IMO and I think everyones heart is in the right place with choices that are available. Edited May 4, 2011 by pureinheart
Author Silly_Girl Posted May 4, 2011 Author Posted May 4, 2011 This thread has come about because others have said to do anything BUT tell the spouse in the case of infidelity would be wrong. I'm wonder whether infidelity is the only time. Or if you know someone is gaining government benefits and isn't entitled to. Or their road tax has run out. Or they have no insurance for their car and if they injured someone in an accident the consequences could be significant. If it's about personal injury (the threat of - STD's have been mentioned) does that include where someone is being bullied, even if action could worsen the situation. Or where someone is suffering violence within their relationship? I am intrigued as to where the line is drawn between being a good citizen, having integrity, to meddling and 'grassing up'. I could have easily outed my (near-)MM and his new target to HR but I'm not interested. I feel their relationship is none of my business. ....I learned a lot of powerful lessons from my two-year experience with MM. Maybe his OW has her own lessons to learn, too. ...Then I realized that our intuition provides each of us with warnings. It was listening to my intuition which ultimately protected me from MM. I have to trust his new OW has had similar internal warnings. It's her decision to live her life as she chooses, and, of course, to accept the consequences. Free will. I think this is a good point. I have ignored my intuition at times, and usually regret doing so. Everyone has a different opinion on this. Every set of circumstances is different, too. I may respond differently to a different set of circumstances. I agree. And that is why I have found it hard to understand the staunch, unmoving views as to if X happens, you must do Y. I'm not knocking it, it just isn't how I usually react to a scenario. IF you had a sister and you KNEW her H was cheating...would you tell? Or look the other way? My B-I-L (before they settled down properly) was messing her around, and I asked her whether she'd considered various scenarios. I know my sister's views on cheating, so no, I wouldn't tell her - as things stand. But I'm lucky enough to have had that conversation with her, fairly recently. If you someday have a D, and you KNEW her H was cheating...would you tell? Or look the other way? I honestly do not know. Everyone who knows me IRL already knows...if you are cheating best not let me know. I'll call the spouse right then and there - and they know it. I;m not worried about losing the friendship - if they cheat, I don't WANT to be their friend. I have a friend who cheated. I have felt cross at her for denying TO HERSELF that she cheated, I found that frustrating. I never had any inclination to tell her H, because I knew within 3 months they would be over, not because of the A, but because of the previous 4 years they had spent together. I didn't feel it was my place to get involved when I barely knew him. I don't have the opinion that anyone who cheats, automatically becomes unworthy of my friendship. I think we are all human, and there are few mistakes, errors of judgements, outright f***-ups that would lead me to write off a person. The boundaries between you and your friend (or anyone) are where YOU place them. If you allow yourself to be advised by your friend without inviting them to do so, then that is the boundary you have allowed between the two of you. So your friend or family member will intervene in your life as much as you allow them to (as close to where you place the boundaries between you two). As a parent, I may be used to telling my children what to do and to intervene in their lives, right up until the point where they redefine the boundaries and firmly tell me that if they don't specifically ask me for my advice, I should not give it. How does that work if someone were to contact the authorities about something you'd done, or email you to tell you your SO is having an A? I'm interested in your point, but not sure I've grasped it, sorry. I think you have a certain obligation to do what's right by your friend/relative if you know they are being cheated on, but you do not have the same burden to tell a complete stranger or a neighbor or someone you do not really know. This is because you do not know the repercussions that your telling will have. I used to be very opinionated about always TELLING the BS, back when I had been betrayed and found out on my own. But now, years later, I am not so sure that is always the best course of action to take. Having put the shoe on the other foot now (from being BS to WS), and also seeing 'innocent' spouses NOT being so innocent (you don't know the dynamics of their relationship, their relationship history, and what goes on behind closed doors), to say nothing of the repercussions your telling will have. So, like the tenet in Medicine, "First do no harm" and this entails Not Telling if you don't know those people involved, well enough. How do you mean? Are you saying that you can be fairly sure your friend/sister won't kill themselves/their SO if you tell them of the affair, but with those you know less well the risk is greater? As you say, we often don't really know the dynamics in any relationship, even those of those close to us, so I'm not sure why we are charged more with a friend/relative than someone else? If it's a moral burden upon us all, to out infidelity, why would we then be selective as to when to be true to our morals? It's tough. There are a lot of "if" "then" statements when it comes down to tell or not to tell. I don't even know myself, anymore, if one should or should not tell in every case. Same here.
Author Silly_Girl Posted May 4, 2011 Author Posted May 4, 2011 where do you live that people aren't tattle tales? i think it comes down to personal ethics. i could not stand by and watch another person be treated physically or verbally bad. i would and have said something, not mean or rude tho. i am not understanding what you mean by the part i put in bold above. i am not sure what point you are trying to convey. are you saying that you do not believe in interfeering in anyone's life and you would like that same courtesy? people all over are charged as accomplises to crimes. people have been brought to trial over that. people who drive a get away car. people who stand by and let someone be beaten to death. recently there was a bit on the news about a group of people who watched a homeless man be beaten by teenage thugs. no one went to the man's aide or called 911. the man ended up dying on the streets. is that what you mean? that people should not get involved? i would hope if i was in a situation where someone could help me, they would. if you prefer to not help someone, that is your choice. it is also the choice of others to help. HF, is it black and white for you? If you spoke up on behalf of a situation, and it made things worse, is that okay for you? It is about you exercising your morals and feeling good? Or about doing what's best? Are there instances where the truth doesn't help? Or intervention doesn't help? What about if a long-term victim of domestic violence is plotting to leave, has a lover, is siphoning monies out of the relationship to be able to escape? Is there a greater good morally? Is it our place to make that call?
Author Silly_Girl Posted May 4, 2011 Author Posted May 4, 2011 I don't feel obligated to tell anyone about anything. I don't work with a set of fixed rules, tho. I might do it or might not depending on the circumstances, no fixed rules. But that's just me. I like this. I realise my 'tell' and 'don't tell' might differ greatly to someone else's, and our rationales might be very different, but I would definitely want to take each instance on its merits and think long and hard. And even then, I doubt I'd ever feel 100% that I was doing the right thing, whether I chose 'tell' or 'don't tell'. Because there may be factors I could never know.
Angelina527 Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Maybe so but anybody with some sense will say that rape is the worse thing. I never thought I would say this but I see much lying and dishonesty by people in relationships that I think I am becoming numb to it. I would never do it and I am glad that I am not being cheated on but I think I am past the point of being angry at a society that is rotten to the core. When I hear about it I just shake my head and move on anymore. Having been raped, I feel compelled to respond here. For me, the infidelity was much much worse. It shattered me. See, rape I was able to understand that it was not about me at all, AND I was able to get justice. With the infidelity, however, there was no justice no matter how much my soul screamed for it. Rape and infidelity are both emotional torture and for some, rape may be worse, but not for all. I've been destroyed by this and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. I'm more helpless now than I was with the rape. Think of it as emotional rape...there is no end in sight.
NoIDidn't Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Having been raped, I feel compelled to respond here. For me, the infidelity was much much worse. It shattered me. See, rape I was able to understand that it was not about me at all, AND I was able to get justice. With the infidelity, however, there was no justice no matter how much my soul screamed for it. Rape and infidelity are both emotional torture and for some, rape may be worse, but not for all. I've been destroyed by this and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. I'm more helpless now than I was with the rape. Think of it as emotional rape...there is no end in sight. I agree with this. I commend people for attempting to speak for rape victims, but they really don't know what they are feeling. Most report that anything traumatic feels worst than the previous traumatic event. I would agree that rape is the worst thing, but only when the victim is an innocent child that really has no other frame of reference for the evil that people will do to do a person. On topic though, I think it depends on the circumstances of whether or not to tell. I started a thread about telling an acquaintance of mine about her cheating H and the children he was creating all over the place. I ultimately decided not to tell her and my reasons were many. Everyone around her knows and will not tell her. Her children already deal with questions about the child that she does know about and that they attend school together with about how they are related if they don't have the same parents but are roughly the same age. I'll let her find out on her own. And if she asks me if I knew, I will lie and say I didn't know. I think in general, I would not tell in most cases. I do not like to be the bearer of bad news. However, just because I won't tell the BS doesn't mean I won't let the WS know that I know what is going on.
djhall Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Uh, I think I may have been responsible for starting the comparison between rape and infidelity with my analogy. If so, I wasn't trying to equate to two, but rather illustrate that both are a victimization of another person who may well be a stranger, and perhaps whatever it is that makes us feel a responsibility to prevent the further victimization of a stranger in the case of rape should also motivate us to feel a responsibility to prevent the further victimization of a stranger in the case of infidelity and deceit. The point wasn't that one was worse than the other, but rather to ask the question, "If both are victimization, and if you feel compelled to act by one, why don't you feel compelled to act by the other?"
Author Silly_Girl Posted May 5, 2011 Author Posted May 5, 2011 I think in general, I would not tell in most cases. I do not like to be the bearer of bad news. However, just because I won't tell the BS doesn't mean I won't let the WS know that I know what is going on. This is a good point. I know of a couple of scenarios where person A knew person B was cheating on person C. A told B you'd better tell C or I might, or they'll find out via xxxx methods. They were many years apart and very different situations (person A was a colleague in one, a sibling in another) but IIRC the outcomes were different in that in one scenario the affair ended, and the other guilted the spouse in to owning up. A social group I know of (but don't mix with) contains a married with kids guy, and his wife. When the men only go out he meets his OW, she brings friends, they all hang out. The other wives know it happens and hate it, guess they feel threatened maybe that their guy may go the same way.... No one has told the wife because he did this before and when she was told she took it out on the messenger and believed the H that it was all lies (and jealousy) and it caused a nasty rift for quite a while. I guess this could go on for years. He has no intention of leaving his wife, he appears very proud of her and says she's a great mum. But they've been together since school (so about 20-25 years) and he's bored.
Woggle Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 I am not trying to deny a person's feelings but I think there is a very good reason why one is punished by law and other isn't. Maybe it is because I am becoming numb to it. Cheating is so prevalent in our society so why torture yourself getting angry about it? I know it is sad but this is the world we live in.
Angelina527 Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 I am not trying to deny a person's feelings but I think there is a very good reason why one is punished by law and other isn't. Maybe it is because I am becoming numb to it. Cheating is so prevalent in our society so why torture yourself getting angry about it? I know it is sad but this is the world we live in. Think of it as emotional vs. physical abuse...sometimes those emotional scars take much longer to heal. I work hard every single day to try to heal from this trauma, but the fallout has been so much more difficult than the physical rape was for me. And, yes, I do believe that there should be some sort of punishment. Oh, and I'm also a former OW, but lemme tell ya, things from this side look a whole lot different.
OWoman Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Sorry to drag this thread back on-topic, but... This thread has come about because others have said to do anything BUT tell the spouse in the case of infidelity would be wrong. I'm wonder whether infidelity is the only time. Or if you know someone is gaining government benefits and isn't entitled to. Or their road tax has run out. Or they have no insurance for their car and if they injured someone in an accident the consequences could be significant. If it's about personal injury (the threat of - STD's have been mentioned) does that include where someone is being bullied, even if action could worsen the situation. Or where someone is suffering violence within their relationship? I am intrigued as to where the line is drawn between being a good citizen, having integrity, to meddling and 'grassing up'. For me, my personal values as well as the "big picture" would come into play. If a kid is drawing a moustache on an election poster, I would ignore it. If my brother was keeping an illegally trafficked woman as a sex slave, I'd report it. Both are illegal; but to me the former is harmless and often creative, while the latter is exploitative and against some of my core beliefs. OTOH, my neighbour does not seem able to drive without a cellphone in his hand / on his ear. That's illegal, and does irk my sense of right and wrong. Will I shop him? No. He's a pillar of the community, a wonderful neighbour and a charming friend, and he's lived here so long he knows the lanes better than the back of his hand. He's taking a calculated risk, in a low-risk environment, and the harm done by shopping him would far outweigh the "good" done.
Mimolicious Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 The posts that say 'you must tell on someone having an affair' is not a view I recognise readily from my experiences or the culture I'm used to. That said, I'm also not used to lots of enabling/encouraging of infidelity, and it's not 'expected' where I live as it is elsewhere in the world. So, the policing of my actions by another... Just curious as to where the boundaries are. When does someone have the right to intervene in my life? Does it depend on who they are or does it not matter? Is it only with affairs or are there more things I could expect a friend to approach my partner about, for example? I think I'm right in saying there's no law in the UK that says you are culpable if you don't step in when you could have done, where violence is being perpetrated etc. In fact, this brand of 'heroism' is discouraged. So are we more evolved than our laws? Will they catch up with the morals of some of the LS posters? Will those with knowledge of something - who does nothing - be charged with some sort of secondary blame? Thanks for any input. I'm intrigued Ok, to be honest, I don't understand half of your questions. If you don't want to run the chance of being blamed for something, very easy, don't participate. That's too simple to say though. I have an example for you and has nothing to do with infidelity but more of a social issue and this is based on the Laws and a particular situation in the US that relates to your last question. 2 social workers are being charged with criminally negligent homicide. Here is the link and look at all the people being indicted in this case. http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/03/marchella_brett-pierce_murder.php Those were people with knowledge of the situation, yet didn't do as required by law and society. They are now charged with secondary blame. I guess your point is solely on affairs but there is more to life than a "love story" and it shows that when you "see something, say something" can really save some trouble. It's a different story for one to mind its own business but if I saw a friend throwing her life away while her H was perhaps making plans to move out with OW while his W is about to quit her job (as one story in LS) I think that person deserves to be informed. How can anyone live with themselves after knowing?
Mimolicious Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Maybe so but anybody with some sense will say that rape is the worse thing. I never thought I would say this but I see much lying and dishonesty by people in relationships that I think I am becoming numb to it. I would never do it and I am glad that I am not being cheated on but I think I am past the point of being angry at a society that is rotten to the core. When I hear about it I just shake my head and move on anymore. I co-sign it! I'm starting to feel the same. Actually, within my own circle. Trust me, my guestlist has decreased tremendously. I'm not 16 anymore and those around me that still want to play games with their families and relationships, have no business being a part of my circle. That is not what I am about. Hey, guess what, my changes of having to tell a friend of their SO trashy behavior is cut by 60%. (at least). LOL!
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