Scottdmw Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 So, in another thread the topic of the effectiveness of contraception came up, and I thought it might be a worthwhile topic for general discussion on its own, with the thinking that education and information are generally good things, and decisions about sexual activity are an important part of the dating scene. Most people seem to have the idea that birth control is very effective, and if they use it their chances of an unexpected pregnancy are very low. That is fairly true for a single use, but over a person's expected presence in the dating scene, it really isn't. Let's start with the raw numbers for the pill and the condom. They can be found here: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/hea...ndom-10187.htm http://www.plannedparenthood.org/hea...-pill-4228.htm Both have an effectiveness for “perfect use” and “typical use”. You can use the “perfect” numbers if you think you don't make mistakes, but the average person is going to be closer to the “typical” number--i.e. if a woman occasionally forgets to take a pill. For the pill the failure rate numbers are 1% for perfect and 8% for typical, per couple per year. For the condom they are 2% perfect and 15% typical (lots of guys leaving them in a hot car or something). If you are less careful than average your odds are even worse. So for example, if you or your partner are a typical user of a condom, and you use them for one year, there is a 15% chance of pregnancy during that year. This gets worse when we talk about multiple years. I'm not going to go into the details unless someone really wants, but you can use a formula called the binomial distribution from statistics to calculate the probability of pregnancy over multiple years. There is a write up of it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution Let's say a woman uses only condoms for birth control over a 10-year period, and she or the men she is with are typical users. Here are her odds: Chance of 0 pregnancies: 20% Chance of 1 pregnancy: 35% Chance of 2 pregnancies: 28% Chance of 3 pregnancies: 13% Chance of 4 pregnancies: 4% This assumes she does not learn from her mistake the first time of course. Not really so good. The pill is somewhat better, but the chance of 1 pregnancy over 10 years for typical user is still 57%, better than even. What does all this mean? Basically, unless a person and/or all of their partners are extremely careful (much more so than the average person), or unless they double up on methods, or unless they use one of the extremely effective means such as vastectomy, the average person has a higher then 1 in 2 chance of either becoming pregnant or causing someone to become pregnant over a 10-year period. I think that's something that everyone should know when they make their decisions about who to become involved with. Basically, to sum it up, if you use birth control for 10 years you should expect to probably experience a pregnancy. There should be no surprise if this happens. Scott
alethean Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 I've studied this a couple of times in a few classes at my school. A lot of accidental pregnancies occur because of misuse of birth control. There are ways to minimize the risk of unplanned pregancies, such as learning how to utilize the contraceptive correctly (how many men render their condoms ineffective by storing it somewhere like their wallet?) and using two or more forms of birth control at once. I think there's a user on here who uses three forms at once? I'm not sure. But good luck. Sex is a risk, but so are many fun and valuable things in life, so just be safe and responsible y'all! <3, your mother
sanskrit Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 So for example, if you or your partner are a typical user of a condom, and you use them for one year, there is a 15% chance of pregnancy during that year. If you keep all your condoms in a wallet and sit on them all day, and only have sex when the female is fertile, climax inside the female each and every orgasm, have viable sperm in your testes that haven't been killed by heat or other environmental factors, and every incident of sex would have resulted in a sperm reaching and fertilizing the egg, THEN you have a 15% chance of pregnancy. Fixed. The thing to remember with many statistics is that they are complete conjecture despite their numerical nature giving them a false air of authority. There is no way to accurately estimate the failure rate of contraceptives used properly unless researchers mount thousands of cameras in bedrooms, backseats, elevators and even bathrooms on planes, yet the numbers seem to suggest there is. Moreover, social engineering goals (safe sex) color how the numbers are calculated, which studies are emphasized and which are ignored entirely.
threebyfate Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 Umm...how difficult is it for people to understand that sex is for reproduction and if you're having sex, it's possible to have a wanted or unwanted pregnancy?If you're unwilling to bear the consequences of having sex, whether you end up having an abortion, having a live birth and then giving up the baby for adoption or choose to raise the baby yourself, then don't have sex.To mitigate the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy, both use birth control. It's not rocket science!
somedude81 Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 Since you linked to planned parenthood should know that there are more birth control methods than just the pill and condom. Frankly I really wouldn't trust either of them since both can fail due to human error.
Banker Chick Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 I have a friend that's 2 months pregnant and was a faithful BC pill user. Given that she's also 38 it's pretty incredible. It does happen!
Author Scottdmw Posted May 1, 2011 Author Posted May 1, 2011 If you keep all your condoms in a wallet and sit on them all day, and only have sex when the female is fertile, climax inside the female each and every orgasm, have viable sperm in your testes that haven't been killed by heat or other environmental factors, and every incident of sex would have resulted in a sperm reaching and fertilizing the egg, THEN you have a 15% chance of pregnancy. Hah, it sounds like someone like that would have an even worse than 15% chance!
Art_Critic Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 What is the baseline in the 10 years for how much sex she is supposed to be having ? 3 times day ? 3 times a month ? that can greatly affect the odds.. and the knowledge of when to not have sex is also helpful
Kelemort Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 How hard is it really not to use most of these birth control methods like a moron? For most birth control users, missing ONE pill in a pack isn't going to do anything - no back-up is needed. I usually see the "typical use" statistics and raise an eyebrow. How hard is it to check a condom expiration date? Make sure they're stored properly? That the condom is put on before you have sex and it's in place throughout sex? They break, sure. But even that's not that often. Planned Parenthood recommends that sexually active people use at least 2 methods of birth control every time. Pills and condoms? You should be good to go. I'd never rely on only one method.
Author Scottdmw Posted May 1, 2011 Author Posted May 1, 2011 That's what abortions are for. There is another thread in another area for debating the morality of abortion. But, there is one thing I think it's fair to say in this context. I'm guessing you are a man based on this response. It's very easy for men to say things like this, if the contraception fails all he has to do is maybe fork over a few bucks and say “go get an abortion”. As far as he is concerned it never happened. The woman is the one who has to deal with both physical and emotional pain, plus possible health risks. For some women, emotional pain ends up being long-lasting and severe. In rare cases women have even died from legal abortions in the US. So, it's not some kind of problem-free solution regardless of what you may think about the morality. To me it underscores the importance of weighing decisions carefully, because there really is no easy answer to the problem of birth control failures.
Els Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 If you keep all your condoms in a wallet and sit on them all day, and only have sex when the female is fertile, climax inside the female each and every orgasm, have viable sperm in your testes that haven't been killed by heat or other environmental factors, and every incident of sex would have resulted in a sperm reaching and fertilizing the egg, THEN you have a 15% chance of pregnancy. Fixed. The thing to remember with many statistics is that they are complete conjecture despite their numerical nature giving them a false air of authority. There is no way to accurately estimate the failure rate of contraceptives used properly unless researchers mount thousands of cameras in bedrooms, backseats, elevators and even bathrooms on planes, yet the numbers seem to suggest there is. Moreover, social engineering goals (safe sex) color how the numbers are calculated, which studies are emphasized and which are ignored entirely. Statistics are probabilistic and not deterministic, yes, but based on current knowledge, statistics obtained through a proper randomized controlled trial are the best possible estimates of one's risk. They may not be completely accurate, but what YOU think the actual rates of failure are is probably less accurate. I think this is a great thread because one would be surprised how many, many people don't even think about the 'what if' before having sex. In their mind, it is 'I used BC so I'm safe and I don't need to think further than this', not 'there is still a rate of failure and as responsible adults we should always think about what our options are should it fail, before engaging in sexual conduct'. In fact, in LS alone, I think at least 30% (rough estimate, don't quote me on this) of regular female posters have mentioned getting an unwanted pregnancy despite using one or even more methods of birth control before.
Lucky_One Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 What does all this mean? Basically, ...... or unless they use one of the extremely effective means such as vastectomy, Implanon. Implanon. Implanon. More effective than a vasectomy or a tubal ligation. Instantly reversible. Hassle-free in terms of daily taking. Discrete. With my insurance plan and the costs of BC pills, it is far cheaper over the long-run, as well.
sanskrit Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 Hah, it sounds like someone like that would have an even worse than 15% chance! I think the point is that condoms are in fact very effective and reliable when stored and used correctly. The best piece of birth control advice for men I know in this day and age is never ever let a woman you don't know and trust completely anywhere near your viable sperm. Ignoring this simple rule can easily cost you $100,000 or more. Contain it in a condom, clean any off your skin immediately, and flush it away, never merely throw away in a trash can.
Author Scottdmw Posted May 2, 2011 Author Posted May 2, 2011 I think this is a great thread because one would be surprised how many, many people don't even think about the 'what if' before having sex. In their mind, it is 'I used BC so I'm safe and I don't need to think further than this', not 'there is still a rate of failure and as responsible adults we should always think about what our options are should it fail, before engaging in sexual conduct'. In fact, in LS alone, I think at least 30% (rough estimate, don't quote me on this) of regular female posters have mentioned getting an unwanted pregnancy despite using one or even more methods of birth control before. I've seen a lot of this too, which was why I thought it might be a good idea to put some information out there.
djhall Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Isn't it enough to let the original topic, namely "birth control isn't as reliable under ordinary use conditions and some people might think", stand on its own? No matter how perfect you think YOU are in use, even perfect use has a failure rate. And how certain can everyone be about the how careful their partner was in handling the birth control anyway? What about people who don't know details like antibiotics rendering the pill ineffective? There is an abortion thread with this discussion for people who need to go there instead.
djhall Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 I think the point is that condoms are in fact very effective and reliable when stored and used correctly. I can confirm from personal experience that they aren't effective and reliable enough. And yes, I do know the exact time, place, and method used with the one that failed.
Sunstar Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 I can confirm from personal experience that they aren't effective and reliable enough. And yes, I do know the exact time, place, and method used with the one that failed. What brand was it, can you remember?
djhall Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 What brand was it, can you remember? It was the basic Trojan brand.
misssmartypants Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 3 kids = 3 failed methods, wouldn't trade them for anything though.
djhall Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 So what is the general consensus on trash bags especially the Hefty brand? They work well, though they are a little tight on me . Just be sure you get the kind with the drawstring because the twist ties hurt!
Sunstar Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 It was the basic Trojan brand. Given that the condom failed, that's kind of an ironic brand name for condoms.
djhall Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Given that the condom failed, that's kind of an ironic brand name for condoms. I've always thought so... gee it looks safe, I guess it can come inside.. Wait, where did all the invaders come from! .
Author Scottdmw Posted May 2, 2011 Author Posted May 2, 2011 3 kids = 3 failed methods, wouldn't trade them for anything though. Good to hear you ended up being happy!
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