jnj express Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 Hey Audacia-----how much time do you think she spent on communicating what was bothering her---over the course of the last year. If she adds up all the time she seriously spent telling/forcing her H., to look at marital problems---Do you think it was 30 minutes, maybe an hour,--how about 2 hours, maybe if you add it all up a day, 24 hours---- How much time has she spent on spreading her legs for the other guy-----A WHOLE FREAKIN YEAR-------kind of uneven ain't it
Silly_Girl Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 You're right PR, the timeline in the first post is a bit vague. I just can't think clearly right now. I'll try to type up a more specific timeline tomorrow. Hi FoR, just to say that it may or may not add anything to your post, to get the timeline right, but at one point I'd estimated you'd had a one year EA and about a twelve year PA!! So the facts may help you to get the most valuable advice. Good luck!
Spark1111 Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 Full of Regret.....the way to show your husband you are sorry is to get into intensive Individual Counseling and figure out WHY, dig deep here, you felt the need to go outside your relationship and have a secret affair with a co-worker. I think your problems, and the pain you have caused your spouse, is now two-fold: the huge betrayal of trust and vows of fidelity, and his family of origin issues. Many men cannot recover from a wife's infidelity because many men are extremely visual, and if he cannot overcome the mind movies of you and your lover which will replay obsessively, he may not want to reconcile. But, then again, he may, as he has devoted his whole life to understanding his childhood trauma. You will have to come up with something better than "you grew complacent." This man's entire life was defined by his father's infidelity causing his mother's suicide. I cannot imagine a more hurtful or damaging action to your spouse than what you did. Not only will he have to overcome your infidelity as a spouse, (so devastating) but you have succesfully reopened his greatest childhood wound. Please make sure someone is monitoring HIM right now.
fltc Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 What can I do? You've received some good advice but the short answer is there's nothing you can do, it's up to your husband now.
betterdeal Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 I feel repulsed by many of the responses here. The OP has reached out for help to right a wrong and been subjected to the fury of other people's own issues. Berating her will not make your life better. More importantly, it will not ensure the ongoing healthy development of all three individuals. Take a look at yourselves, those who are so quick to pass judgment.
TurboGirl Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 I feel repulsed by many of the responses here. The OP has reached out for help to right a wrong and been subjected to the fury of other people's own issues. Berating her will not make your life better. More importantly, it will not ensure the ongoing healthy development of all three individuals. Take a look at yourselves, those who are so quick to pass judgment. Exactly. Lots of hate & mean replies. The "cheater" doesn't loose all rights in a relationship and become nothing just because she makes a mistake! Should she grovel & berate herself to her H, just so he takes her back? BS. I hope that the OP gets some counseling and support and if she is remorseful, H will agree to try again & work on the marriage. If the marriage was all that fantastic I don't think the OP would have been tempted. As I stated previously, it is MY OPINION to which I am entitled, that should the H be unable to "forgive" and move beyond the A, then he will be the true loser. We are not talking about forgiving of multiple As, just ONE A, ONE mistake. People are human and make mistakes. No one here on the board is in any position to judge.
cyabye Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 Exactly. Lots of hate & mean replies. The "cheater" doesn't loose all rights in a relationship and become nothing just because she makes a mistake! Should she grovel & berate herself to her H, just so he takes her back? BS. I hope that the OP gets some counseling and support and if she is remorseful, H will agree to try again & work on the marriage. If the marriage was all that fantastic I don't think the OP would have been tempted. As I stated previously, it is MY OPINION to which I am entitled, that should the H be unable to "forgive" and move beyond the A, then he will be the true loser. We are not talking about forgiving of multiple As, just ONE A, ONE mistake. People are human and make mistakes. No one here on the board is in any position to judge. Sigh. Yes, people are human. But cheating is not a mistake. It was a choice. In her case, a well thought out choice. You categorize cheating as a mistake as if you spent too much money on an impulse buy or paid a bill late etc. Are you a WS yourself? The husband the true loser for not moving past the affair? Turbogirl, maybe I can visit you sometime in fantasy land when I decide to take a break from reality! cya
Spark1111 Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 I feel repulsed by many of the responses here. The OP has reached out for help to right a wrong and been subjected to the fury of other people's own issues. Berating her will not make your life better. More importantly, it will not ensure the ongoing healthy development of all three individuals. Take a look at yourselves, those who are so quick to pass judgment. I am so sorry you are repulsed, but some people cannot see the forest for the trees. There is affairs and infidelity, and then there is having an affair on an MC who spent his entire life, devoting himself to a career to heal the trauma of having a mother kill herself upon discovery of his father's affair. Think that might have been a conversation or two in their marriage? I think....yes! As it defined his life's work. And the best she's got is, idk....I guess I grew complacent. And the best you got is "our hate is repulsive." I do not know your story. I can only assume you, your spouse, your lover, or your lover's spouse, hasn't jumped off a bridge or eaten the end of a gun because of someone's infidelity. Lucky you!
drifter777 Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 Exactly. Lots of hate & mean replies. The "cheater" doesn't loose all rights in a relationship and become nothing just because she makes a mistake! Should she grovel & berate herself to her H, just so he takes her back? BS. I hope that the OP gets some counseling and support and if she is remorseful, H will agree to try again & work on the marriage. If the marriage was all that fantastic I don't think the OP would have been tempted. As I stated previously, it is MY OPINION to which I am entitled, that should the H be unable to "forgive" and move beyond the A, then he will be the true loser. We are not talking about forgiving of multiple As, just ONE A, ONE mistake. People are human and make mistakes. No one here on the board is in any position to judge. TurboGirl: Those of us who have lived through the hell of infidelity ARE in a position to judge and it's time for you to stop injecting your bull**** into this thread. Most people on this forum are seriously hurting and are asking for help from people who have been there so this is not the place for an idiot like you to spew nonsense. You are entiltled to your opinion, just please keep it to yourself.
Spark1111 Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 Exactly. Lots of hate & mean replies. The "cheater" doesn't loose all rights in a relationship and become nothing just because she makes a mistake! Should she grovel & berate herself to her H, just so he takes her back? BS. I hope that the OP gets some counseling and support and if she is remorseful, H will agree to try again & work on the marriage. If the marriage was all that fantastic I don't think the OP would have been tempted. As I stated previously, it is MY OPINION to which I am entitled, that should the H be unable to "forgive" and move beyond the A, then he will be the true loser. We are not talking about forgiving of multiple As, just ONE A, ONE mistake. People are human and make mistakes. No one here on the board is in any position to judge. Do you people even read the posts written by the OP? Or do you just knee-jerk react? Her H's mother committed suicide upon the the discovery of his father's infidelity! Imagine that? This man then went on to become a MC, to heal marriages, and his wife cheats on him because....she grew complacent? A little depressed before returning to work? I HOPE this man can find it in his heart to reconcile. But I doubt it. That is, if he isn't home alone trying to eat the barrel of a gun. Is someone monitoring your husband, OP!
betterdeal Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) I am so sorry you are repulsed, but some people cannot see the forest for the trees. There is affairs and infidelity, and then there is having an affair on an MC who spent his entire life, devoting himself to a career to heal the trauma of having a mother kill herself upon discovery of his father's affair. All the more reason to offer constructive, balanced, practical advice that is more likely to end up with a stable relationship between the three people in this family. Whether that stable relationship is the two adults together as a couple again or separated but as active parents, it will be a better outcome for them and their child than whatever it is you want the outcome to be. In fact, it's unclear what advice you are giving. You appear to want the child to be raised in a house full of guilt, with no access to one of her parents. It is certainly the likely outcome of your shame and guilt routine. And the best she's got is, idk....I guess I grew complacent. And the best you got is "our hate is repulsive." Your hate is dangerous, that's why I am repulsed by it. I do not know your story. I can only assume you, your spouse, your lover, or your lover's spouse, hasn't jumped off a bridge or eaten the end of a gun because of someone's infidelity. Lucky you! My ex has one ex who committed suicide at the end of their relationship, another ex in an institute for the criminally insane and I made a serious attempt at suicide last year and ended up in a mental health ward for three weeks at the end of our relationship. She herself made a serious attempt at suicide before meeting me and was involuntarily hospitalised in a mental health ward. Lucky me, indeed. Shame, guilt, blame and hate were all instrumental in all four of us reaching that point. You're perpetuating a world-view that causes death. That's why I am repulsed by it. Edited May 1, 2011 by betterdeal
whichwayisup Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Exactly. Lots of hate & mean replies. Lot's of mean and hate replies? Maybe one poster (reincarnated) has but are you saying that most of her thread is hateful and mean? If so, we must be reading two different threads or we have 2 different definitions of the meaning of those words. I see harsh and reality checks, stuff she needs to hear.
whichwayisup Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Do you people even read the posts written by the OP? Or do you just knee-jerk react? Her H's mother committed suicide upon the the discovery of his father's infidelity! Imagine that? This man then went on to become a MC, to heal marriages, and his wife cheats on him because....she grew complacent? A little depressed before returning to work? I HOPE this man can find it in his heart to reconcile. But I doubt it. That is, if he isn't home alone trying to eat the barrel of a gun. Is someone monitoring your husband, OP! And the part I bolded.. Because of this, she knew from DAY ONE of her affair (which still would be on-going if not caught) her husbands past pain and heartache, yet she still chose that cheating path, knowing what it could do to him, and also knowing full well that she could lose her husband and family unit as one. THIS IS WHY she needs to seek counselling, to figure out why she put herself above and beyond her H and her family. Harsh, yes, mean no -- It's HER reality. She created this awful and sad mess, and yes I feel for her because things are bad, it's not nice to read about pain, but she brought it all on herself. Is that mean of me to say? Hateful? No..It's reality and objective. She needs to hear certain things so she can fix herself.
Spark1111 Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 All the more reason to offer constructive, balanced, practical advice that is more likely to end up with a stable relationship between the three people in this family. Whether that stable relationship is the two adults together as a couple again or separated but as active parents, it will be a better outcome for them and their child than whatever it is you want the outcome to be. In fact, it's unclear what advice you are giving. You appear to want the child to be raised in a house full of guilt, with no access to one of her parents. It is certainly the likely outcome of your shame and guilt routine. Your hate is dangerous, that's why I am repulsed by it. OMG! I am saying to FOR, who is the loving supportive home of her parents, who as of yet, is sorry but not truly remorseful, not as of yet, TO GET SOMEONE TO CHECK ON HER HUSBAND BEFORE HE ENDS HIS LIFE! My ex has one ex who committed suicide at the end of their relationship, another ex in an institute for the criminally insane and I made a serious attempt at suicide last year and ended up in a mental health ward for three weeks at the end of our relationship. She herself made a serious attempt at suicide before meeting me and was involuntarily hospitalised in a mental health ward. Lucky me, indeed. Shame, guilt, blame and hate were all instrumental in all four of us reaching that point. You're perpetuating a world-view that causes death. That's why I am repulsed by it. YOU, of all people, have to understand the plea I am making to the OP. She is looking for advice. Her H is a shaking. crying mess, who is NOW all alone. DO YOU understand what I am trying to help her avoid here? You are talking of hate to me? I want someone to make sure that man is okay! That man is a mess, for so many obvious reasons she has stated in her posts and does not even seem to realize. However, he is not posting here. She is. I want FOR to send in the troops to ensure this man is OKAY! Do you get this???????????????????????? Because if your history is true, you better than anyone should understand what I am trying to do here, if FOR is still reading. Jeez..............
Spark1111 Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Full of Regret.....the way to show your husband you are sorry is to get into intensive Individual Counseling and figure out WHY, dig deep here, you felt the need to go outside your relationship and have a secret affair with a co-worker. I think your problems, and the pain you have caused your spouse, is now two-fold: the huge betrayal of trust and vows of fidelity, and his family of origin issues. Many men cannot recover from a wife's infidelity because many men are extremely visual, and if he cannot overcome the mind movies of you and your lover which will replay obsessively, he may not want to reconcile. But, then again, he may, as he has devoted his whole life to understanding his childhood trauma. You will have to come up with something better than "you grew complacent." This man's entire life was defined by his father's infidelity causing his mother's suicide. I cannot imagine a more hurtful or damaging action to your spouse than what you did. Not only will he have to overcome your infidelity as a spouse, (so devastating) but you have succesfully reopened his greatest childhood wound. Please make sure someone is monitoring HIM right now. My first response to the Full Of Regrets thread. This is hateful, HOW?
Spark1111 Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Betterdeal, yoU are identifying with the child. I understand and applaud that. Right now, in the stress of this DDAy situation, I am identifying with the spouse. I speak from the heart and personal experience when I state: There is no greater devastation to a child than the suicide of a parent, whether caused by infidelity, depression, addiction: NONE. So, to that extent, we are very much on the same page. Infidelity pales in comparison to the death of a parent by suicide. I want FOR to snap out of her post-infidelity inertia, her "I love my H and want to fix this," to sending out some real 24/7 support to a man who has, more so than many betrayed spouses, the possibility of being highly unstable and alone and in severe psychic trauma. You do understand this, yes? Fear, not Hate, had everything to do with my response. There is no greater stressor for this man than what has just happened to him.
Steadfast Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Well put Spark and for what it's worth, I agree. The OP's husband does have a family history. You can't minimize the destructive effects of an affair. Like one other poster said these are not mistakes, they are choices. Poor choices, granted, but choices nonetheless. It seems a waste of words to say the OP should of thought of that beforehand, but what's done is done. There is a way out of this mess, but both parties have to have all chips in. Perhaps some of the recon-successful LS'ers should chime in here? Seems they'd have the best advice to offer-
whichwayisup Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 . Like one other poster said these are not mistakes, they are choices. Poor choices, granted, but choices nonetheless. And if her husband hadn't busted her, the A would still be on going. Sadly, her consquences of her choice to have an affair, allow a friendship to cross the lines, turn into an EA and then a PA is devastating all around, especially for H and their daughter .. I doubt her choice to have an A was with malcious intent, but it definately was a selfish one, she even admitted this too. She knew how her H felt about A's and cheating, and so to still go ahead and do this, isn't an "OOPS I made a mistake." It's a continual choice every single day to be in an A.
whichwayisup Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 but what's done is done. There is a way out of this mess, but both parties have to have all chips in. Yup I agree. What's done is done, unfortunately and now the reality is, getting counselling, for herself, her H and family counselling too. Their daughter might need it (not sure how old she is) but they still have to co parent together, no matter what, together or apart. Focus should be on making things go fast (if divorce) and painless, fair and respectful for the sake of their daughter.. OR, if her H changes his mind and decides to give her a chance, she has to quit her job immediately (though I think she already has) and work with him, as well as on her own to fix herself.
nyrias Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Is it always good give her H the option? If the situation is so painful for him, may be the OP should just leave and make sure that the divorce is least painful for him as possible. Plus, of course a lot of counseling for everyone involved.
Author Full of Regret Posted May 2, 2011 Author Posted May 2, 2011 I appreciate the concern Spark. My husband stays in constant contact with my parents and his daughter. I've have heard he is also recieving support from coworkers and neighbors. He explicitly stated before I left that he would never rob his daughter of her father. My father has has spoken to H about the potential of divorce. H has said that he is undecided. I think it would be unwise for me to file for divorce so soon. I'm worried that I might push him even further over the edge. I quit my job yesterday and am going full NC. I know that my attraction to OM is purely physical. I realise now, unfortunately, that I don't really like him as a person. I know that my attraction to OM will fade in time. Again, I will make no excuse for my actions. I am willing to accept the consequences and support my husband (if he wishes) and my daughter throughout this process. I'm looking at potential ICs. It is taking a lot of time but I want to find a high quality one. To answer you PR, this is the first time that I have cheated on my husband. This is part of the reason why I am so surprised and disappointed with my actions. I would also appreciate it if some of you didn't bad mouth my husband. He doesn't deserve it, and it isn't making me feel any better. I will try to provide a more accurate timeline next. I just need a little while to articulate my thoughts.
Eeyore79 Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 I can kind of see both sides of this situation. You're in the wrong for cheating on your husband, but for you to even consider cheating there must have been some problems in the marriage which your husband wasn't dealing with. You haven't said anything about these problems, or given any idea about why you think you cheated. What was lacking in your marriage to make you look elsewhere? On the other hand, if there were problems then you really should have discussed them with your husband instead of starting an affair. I personally take a very hard line on cheating, and I could never forgive someone or trust them again; if someone cheated on me then the relationship would be over. I wouldn't blame your husband if he asked for a divorce. The ball is in his court really - but if you're lucky enough to be given a second chance, you really need to work on whatever problems caused you to cheat in the first place.
Leelou Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 My husband, being both a marriage counsellor and adept at noticing people's signals had suspicions for a long time. What can I do? Tell him to look at the bright side -- he'll become a Better marriage counselor now that he's going through what his clients have. Okay, seriously, he knows better than you that people can work through infidelity. He just needs time to process his emotions and to figure out how to get control of himself, to handle you. The best thing you can do while he makes you wait, is to cut all contact with your lover. To quit that job so you don't have to see the other man, and to make sure you do not do anything more to endanger your marriage.
Summer Breeze Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 I have strange views on this. I am with the H. I could not accept a spouse that cheated on me period. Do I believe that spouse could go on and have a R that benefits from lessons learned and never go down that path again. I absolutely do. Would that R be with me. Absolutely not. I never had the devastation of a suicide but I told my xH that the 1 thing I would not tolerate is infidelity and when it ended up in my lap I couldn't tolerate it. I hate him for what he did to the family and to me but I am proud that he's learned from it and become a better man and a great H to his W (who was the OW). I knew there was nothing left in the R for me. I couldn't trust him and I wouldn't let anyone's disregard for me dictate how I was going to have to live my life-watching and in fear of every step he took out the door. I agree with FORs H. If he's like me there is no amount of groveling or repairing herself that she can do. It's done. I imagine he'll hope that she'll grow from this and make future Rs better but she probably sealed the fate of the M and I can absolutely see his POV. You may love him FOR but it won't be for the best for you to stay with him. He may stay for the child or now that you're not working he may feel an obligation. I don't know. I do know that if he's like me he will live his full life with you never trusting you again. Do you want him to feel that way or do you love him enough to let him go. I don't want you to think I'm saying youre a lost cause because I don't. I am 100% sure you can recover yourself and find happiness again just make the decision easier on him and go yourself. Let him heal. You've hurt his soul more than you could imagine and more than I could. Let him know you don't expect him back and get on with your life. Maybe one day once you've been that selfless he'll see the sacrifice you made for him. I honestly hope you and your H come through this. I just don't think it should be together at least for now.
betterdeal Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Take positive steps to improve the situation for you now and in the future. Implicit in that is reducing harm to yourself and others. Leaving your job is a great positive step to have taken. You haven't leapt into the other guy's arms in response to this and that's another great sign you're dealing with this in a sensible way. A probable outcome is that you and your husband remain separated, but it is also possible that you maintain active roles as parents to your child. In that sense, you will have a relationship with him; just a very different one from what you had before.
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