I'm not even sure what to call this!?

[Still Searching]

So, brief history. 2 year turbulent relationship, ended by her last November. Kept stringing me along until she went full NC on me in January. A month later she comes back, and I foolishly try to make it work again. 2 short months later and she's gone again. 4-1-11 was the last time we spoke, through email. Last Monday night, after 23 days NC, she calls me. I didn't answer, but emailed her the next morning seeing what she wanted. What I got was basically a sob story about how since she's left me, she's gone drastically downhill, going out 3-4 nights a week, consuming ~35 drinks a week (this conclusion made between her and her counselor), failing out of classes, and questioning all of her friendships. In a way this was an ego boost of sorts, knowing that even though she left me, I am much stronger and better off now after processing the hurt she inflicted.

 

I wasn't a jerk about anything, but simply gave her some advice and my thoughts on things. Part of me feels sorry for her, but the other part of me says I shouldn't, because she chose this life for herself; she's the one who left the relationship she had with me.

 

Would I be better off just going NC on her now? I can't be her savior, nor can anyone else. She's the only one with the power to change, but she has to want it. I don't want to be the guy she comes running back to every time her life takes another turn for the worse.

 

Any thoughts appreciated!

[washguy74]

I'd say it depends on how much it emotionally affects you to listen to her, and interact. If it's a big deal, yea go NC, after all she dropped you.

 

But if you can listen, give good advice and be helpful, without taking a big emotional hit, go for it. Would say a lot about you (even to yourself) if you can be kind to someone who was sometimes unkind to you.

[Beaten_down]

That sounds familiar look up Histrionic personality disorder see if she has any of those traits

if so burn her number and run

[NXS]

So, brief history. 2 year turbulent relationship, ended by her last November. Kept stringing me along until she went full NC on me in January. A month later she comes back, and I foolishly try to make it work again. 2 short months later and she's gone again. 4-1-11 was the last time we spoke, through email. Last Monday night, after 23 days NC, she calls me. I didn't answer, but emailed her the next morning seeing what she wanted. What I got was basically a sob story about how since she's left me, she's gone drastically downhill, going out 3-4 nights a week, consuming ~35 drinks a week (this conclusion made between her and her counselor), failing out of classes, and questioning all of her friendships. In a way this was an ego boost of sorts, knowing that even though she left me, I am much stronger and better off now after processing the hurt she inflicted.

 

I wasn't a jerk about anything, but simply gave her some advice and my thoughts on things. Part of me feels sorry for her, but the other part of me says I shouldn't, because she chose this life for herself; she's the one who left the relationship she had with me.

 

Would I be better off just going NC on her now? I can't be her savior, nor can anyone else. She's the only one with the power to change, but she has to want it. I don't want to be the guy she comes running back to every time her life takes another turn for the worse.

 

Any thoughts appreciated!

 

Sounds like you have this all figured out and have moved on (or at least got past the pain). You can't be her saviour and you really don't owe her anything as she exited the relationship twice now. Nor is there anything in it for you if you continue to allow her to come back when she's looking for comfort. I'd suggest go back to NC and start looking for someone who's not so dramatic.

[Still Searching]

She has called me the past two nights, and yes, I've been kind and matter of fact, just making suggestions at times, and simply listening at others. I'm smarter than to let myself get sucked back into something with her, especially when it's obvious she is in no shape to be in a relationship right now. I agree it would say alot about me, and I'd feel better knowing I was able to show compassion to someone who showed me none. Being condescending or saying "I told you so" might feel good temporarily, but I know I'd regret that behavior later.

 

She does exhibit characteristics of Histrionic Personality Disorder, as well as Borderline Personality Disorder. She is seeing a counselor, which I encouraged her to continue doing, but again, no one can help her besides herself, and she has to want to change for the right reasons.

 

I do agree that there isn't really anything for me to gain by continuing to comfort her, and even though I feel ok with things now, continued contact may affect me later on. She IS the one who left, twice, as mentioned, so I really don't owe her a thing.

 

I do want her to be happy, with or without me (looks like it'll end up being without me whenever she figures things out, which is fine). I've told her this, and also told her that she first needs to be happy with and love herself before she has a chance at a successful, lasting relationship. I also mentioned that it is beneficial to surround yourself with good people, as right now most of her friends are irresponsible, drinking excessively and also into drugs. She engaged in these activities prior to meeting me, but magically transformed and for two years was a completely different person (for the better, I'd like to think). Now it seems she's reverting back to old behavior.

 

I don't expect to hear from her for awhile, especially this weekend. It's Thursday night, the start to her weekend, and if what she has told me is an indication, she'll be letting her hair down and getting wild starting tonight. She'll be occupied with her friends and the attention for now.

 

Thanks for the replies.

[Still Searching]

Well, it looks like I was wrong. My phone rang at 3 am last Thursday night after she got home from the bars. Instead of comforting her like I had been, I was firm and told her I am not there at her convenience, especially in the middle of the night. She hung up, and the conversation was less than 30 seconds long. I thought she'd gotten the picture then, but again, not the case.

 

She called Friday night, feeling lonely/sorry for herself as she was in the hospital with appendicitis. Looking for comfort, she didn't get much from me aside from a "Gee, sorry to hear that." I'm sorry, but an appendectomy is pretty routine, not life-threatening. I pretty much let her have it after that about her selfishly contacting me only when she's lonely and feeling sorry for herself. I'm not a priority, but an afterthought, and I'm not cool with that.

 

I feel she doesn't listen to anyone's advice and refuses to take responsibility for her actions. She keeps telling me I hate her, which is not true at all. I love her/care about her, always will, but she's not ready to be in any sort of relationship until she sorts herself out.

 

Am I doing the right thing, or should I just block her number and everything? I feel she's being selfish/manipulative, but maybe I"m missing something.

[homebrew]

Instead of comforting her like I had been, I was firm and told her I am not there at her convenience, especially in the middle of the night.

 

Really?

 

How is that considering that you keep answering your phone and responding to all her requests?

 

Go read this thread if you want to know what she is doing and how to respond:

 

Click here and Read if you want to stop being a Chump! or you can keep doing what you are doing and continue to look like a total CHUMP and her own personal doormat.

 

The choice is yours, choose wisely!

[Still Searching]

Really?

 

How is that considering that you keep answering your phone and responding to all her requests?

 

 

Haha, good point. In reading the other thread, I did almost exactly what you'd suggested. I talked to her this morning and simply told her she needs to sort herself out, and if after that she still feels she wants to be with me (which I told her she might be surprised to find that she very well won't), I'd like a call. I'm not going to wait around, and if I get that call and there's no interest on my end, or I'm happily involved with someone else, oh well. I may never get that call, and that's ok, too. For now, I still have feelings for her, though.

 

It's just sad to see how far she's fallen, especially so quickly. I always had her pegged as someone stronger and smarter than that.

[homebrew]

Haha, good point. In reading the other thread, I did almost exactly what you'd suggested. I talked to her this morning and simply told her she needs to sort herself out, and if after that she still feels she wants to be with me (which I told her she might be surprised to find that she very well won't), I'd like a call. I'm not going to wait around, and if I get that call and there's no interest on my end, or I'm happily involved with someone else, oh well. I may never get that call, and that's ok, too. For now, I still have feelings for her, though.

 

It's just sad to see how far she's fallen, especially so quickly. I always had her pegged as someone stronger and smarter than that.

 

You did all you can do! Now go NC and let's see if she what happens.

 

Personally, I think you could get her back if you listen and follow my advice. Will she do the work and be someone that is worthy of you? That I don't know, but if you want that opportunity... Be true to yourself and follow through on what you know is best!

 

Keep reading the thread I linked a couple of messages up. There are updates... You will see me and SoCal (hopefully) do it the right way and see our results.

 

I will spell out what I am doing and why and what she is doing / thinking and why every step of the way for you.

 

I am a CERTIFIED PRO at this and have successfully gotten all but one of my Exes that I actually wanted to return... to want me back!

[Downtown]

StillSearching, I agree with you that your exGF's behavior sounds like strong BPD traits. You therefore may benefit from reading about what it is like to live with a BPDer in the threads started by Inigo and LoveSunk, both of whom were dating BPDers. My posts in Inigo's thread start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2826453#post2826453. My posts in LoveSunk's thread start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3375418#post3375418. If you have any questions, I would be glad to try to answer them or suggest articles that address those issues. Take care.

[Still Searching]

Thanks for the comments/advice. I'm not sure I'd even WANT her back anymore. She's young yet, and sadly, I just don't have enough faith in her or the thought that she'll actually take the time necessary to truly figure out herself at this point in life. I think she'll have to go through a bit more, and truly hit rock bottom in order for her to really admit to things and focus on improving herself.

 

At this point she seems to simply want to pin the blame elsewhere.

 

I'll be sure to read through the suggested threads later when I have more time.

 

Thanks again.

[homebrew]

She's young yet, and sadly, I just don't have enough faith in her or the thought that she'll actually take the time necessary to truly figure out herself at this point in life. I think she'll have to go through a bit more, and truly hit rock bottom in order for her to really admit to things and focus on improving herself.

 

Your analysis of the situation and what the end result is correct.

 

It's called, growing up! Some people don't have to learn the hard way, most do.

 

She isn't going to listen to you, you can't convince her to stop, she isn't going to believe you when you tell her the outcome of this lifestyle, etc.

 

Just let her go and figure it out on her own (which she is going to do anyway) and move on with your life.

 

With her lifestyle choice... There is a 100% certainty that she is going to have some bad moments and experiences. If she continues to choose to live this lifestyle, you are correct, it will catch up with her and she will hit rock bottom.

 

Although you know this... Don't bother wasting your time telling her. All you are going to do is make her want to do it more.

 

Oh yeah... Don't be surprised if she contacts you when she goes through a ruff spot or hits bottom. Don't be an ego boost, life coach or rebound! You have been warned!

 

Until then, better yourself and go and put yourself out there!

[Still Searching]

She isn't going to listen to you, you can't convince her to stop, she isn't going to believe you when you tell her the outcome of this lifestyle, etc.

 

Just let her go and figure it out on her own (which she is going to do anyway) and move on with your life.

 

With her lifestyle choice... There is a 100% certainty that she is going to have some bad moments and experiences. If she continues to choose to live this lifestyle, you are correct, it will catch up with her and she will hit rock bottom.

 

Although you know this... Don't bother wasting your time telling her. All you are going to do is make her want to do it more.

 

Oh yeah... Don't be surprised if she contacts you when she goes through a ruff spot or hits bottom. Don't be an ego boost, life coach or rebound! You have been warned!

 

Until then, better yourself and go and put yourself out there!

 

Thanks for the advice, and yes, I'm well on my way in doing exactly what you said. It's her mess to figure out.

 

I'm almost expecting to hear from her again when she's "down", although I think after this last "episode" I'll be better prepared to handle it properly. I'm nobody's doormat, that's for sure!

[Timbo22]

Hey man I just thought I would share my thoughts because I'm going through the same thing right now. shes young and completely changed her lifestyle after she broke up with me of 3 1/2 years... I was devastated as I never saw it coming. We have been broken up for 3 months now and the only thing she cares about is getting drunk, Her school is tough and her life is stressful she she started resorting to drinking instead of me I guess. I bumped into to her by accident downtown over the weekend, she came running up to me hugged me and started making out with me. This was a bad move as it got my hopes up big time. The next day she invited me to lunch and she told me " We will probably be back together just not now". I too am sick of being strung along. I don't know how one changes so drastically and falls back into bad habitats. I also think love is taken for granted these days because someone who loved us would not do this to us, On the other hand they are just young and confused. Idk about you but my ex is a soph in college now and goes to a huge party school.

 

I guess only time will tell, gl to you I hope everything goes well with you.

[Still Searching]

Hey man I just thought I would share my thoughts because I'm going through the same thing right now. shes young and completely changed her lifestyle after she broke up with me of 3 1/2 years... I was devastated as I never saw it coming. We have been broken up for 3 months now and the only thing she cares about is getting drunk, Her school is tough and her life is stressful she she started resorting to drinking instead of me I guess. I bumped into to her by accident downtown over the weekend, she came running up to me hugged me and started making out with me. This was a bad move as it got my hopes up big time. The next day she invited me to lunch and she told me " We will probably be back together just not now". I too am sick of being strung along. I don't know how one changes so drastically and falls back into bad habitats. I also think love is taken for granted these days because someone who loved us would not do this to us, On the other hand they are just young and confused. Idk about you but my ex is a soph in college now and goes to a huge party school.

 

I guess only time will tell, gl to you I hope everything goes well with you.

 

My ex is a junior, and yes, our school is known as one of the biggest party schools in Wisconsin.

 

They've got alot of figure out, and at least in my ex's case, she simply needs to find out who she is, first and foremost. They need to do this on their own; as much as we'd love to be able to help, we can't. It may take them several months, but more than likely, several years, to truly figure everything out. I'm only 24, but I'd like to think I've learned alot about love and life in general already, and have a good idea of what I want out of life, and also how to obtain that.

 

Good luck to you as well.

[Timbo22]

Ha that's crazy only in Wisconsin, we both go to the UW. Seems like drinking here is the only thing people do... Especially the Mifflin street block party which was crazy this yr.

[Still Searching]

Well, after reading through the threads Downtown suggested, things are starting to make even more sense. I do question whether or not my g/f was BPD, as she doesn't seem to relate to many of the traits (unless I'm just blind to it).

 

In LoveSunk's thread specifically, Downtown pointed out that they will do anything to win someone back (admitting to any mistakes and making promises). This is EXACTLY what my ex did when she came back, even writing letters to my family as a form of apology, but also making the same ridiculous promises to them. Foolishly, I believed what she was telling me, likely because I simply wanted to despite several red flags or reasons not to.

 

My ex didn't seem to "split", but was just emotional. I never felt like she hated me. Also, she certainly was simply acting how she thought I wanted her to. I saw this with her friends as well. With me she wasn't loud/annoying/immature, but around her roommates (who are all of those things, sadly), she was just like them. Sad, really, that she has no self-identity and simply conforms to those around her.

 

Questioning whether or not she really ever loved me, I think she did, but not in a healthy manner. She was infatuated, worshipped the ground I walked on, and needed me, period. Her love was indeed intense and passionate, but also unrealistic. She'd asked me one night (slightly intoxicated) before bed if I would promise to "love her forever". That's a promise I can't make.

 

She was certainly easy to fall in love with, as she was warm/inviting; I felt like I'd known her forever, and was instantly comfortable being myself around her. As Downtown pointed out, this immature love is insufficient in relationships, both intimate and interpersonal. She admits to never being able to sustain truly close friendships that could be considered long term.

 

I relate to a BDPer blaming you for everything no matter what. Although she wouldn't directly do it, her actions spoke it in that she refused to stop and exercise some self-examination and work with me. Her reality right now, even though SHE left ME, twice, seems to be that I'm the one who doesn't care about her anymore and am not there for her. She chose for me not to be there anymore, and yet plays the victim when she calls.

 

Unfortunately, I don't see her sticking with counseling/therapy long enough to make a difference, which is tough to swallow, as a small part of me still would like to think she might one day be able to get her act together and we could try again. I'm not going to wait around, and in the meantime, am just focused on my own self-improvement.

 

Like LoveSunk, I also feel as if I'm walking away from someone I love, and also in what is likely one of her toughest times. My attitude used to be that she was family, and I don't walk away from that, but I realize that for my own well-being, I must.

 

I apologize for the rambling. I was just reading through LoveSunk's thread and putting my thoughts to points I found important in writing. I haven't heard from her since Monday, and for the third time now, am trying to force myself to stop expecting another call or email. She seemed quite angry and had the "you hate me" victim attitude last time we spoke, and again, this is probably her reality right now, even though it's far from true.

 

And onward and upward we go, eh?

[Downtown]

Searching, I'm glad to hear you found the BPD information in LoveSunk's thread helpful.

My ex didn't seem to "split", but was just emotional. I never felt like she hated me.

Given her other strong BPD traits, she may be splitting without your recognizing it because her anger is directed inward. The vast majority of BPDers (perhaps 80%) direct their anger outward, resulting in their throwing angry temper tantrums and being very verbally abusive. Those are the BPDers who are easiest to spot.

 

The remaining 20% or so, however, usually turn their anger inward (but occasionally will flip to turning it outward). For obvious reasons, these BPDers are called "quiet borderlines" or "waif borderlines." I suggest you take a look at therapist Shari Schreiber's description at http://www.gettinbetter.com/waif.html. At that same site, she provides a dozen excellent articles about BPDers. Schreiber describes these quiet BPDers as appearing fragile, needful and victimized by their relationships and life circumstances. They therefore project "helplessness" as a way of controlling you. When they are angry with you, they also tend to withdraw and give you the silent treatment.

 

As to the splitting, if your ex is a quiet BPDer, you will see it in her all-or-nothing thinking, wherein she classifies everyone as "all good" or "all bad." That happens because she is too uncomfortable dealing with ambiguities (e.g., the notion of "an essentially good man who happens to do bad things sometimes"). Splitting also will manifest itself when she splits off her adult logic so her conscious mind is not in touch with it. At those times, you can only discuss matters with the intuitive child part of her mind which accepts feelings as fact. You therefore will be unable to have a logical, rational discussion of sensitive issues with her because she always forces you to speak to her child (with the adult being totally out of reach).

 

Another sign of splitting is excessive day dreaming, where she escapes reality while appearing to be listening. She therefore may have trouble recalling recent events and discussions you remember vividly. This is why, in treatment programs, BPDers are taught how to be "in the moment" instead of escaping into thoughts.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Downtown

[Still Searching]

Wow...I'm speechless. If that didn't hit multiple nails on the head...

 

The whole "throwing a life preserver to a waif, only to have it thrown back" concept stands out, as I always tried to give good, sound advice drawn either from personal experience or those of people around me, only for her to completely ignore it, and come back later with the "You were right..." It was never about being "right" to me; I just didn't want to see her make a mistake that would hinder or hurt her.

 

[COLOR=#9900cc]"You'll feel guilty if you don't do whatever you can to help this person, even if it's finding them lodgings, a job, food for their kid or dog to eat, paying for their car repairs, etc." [/COLOR]

[COLOR=#9900cc][/COLOR]

The above quote sums up alot of our relationship. I helped get her my job when I left school, looked for apartments for her, bought her groceries when she was flat broke, fixed her car, bought her interview clothes, etc. She DID pay me back for the car repairs and interview clothes, but yes, the list of her "problems" seemed endless.

 

"They're frustrated when their "poor me" tactics fail to get them what they want."

 

Again, she's called me recently, even though she left me, and when I refuse to support and engage in her BS, she gets upset with me and plays the victim.

 

[FONT=Verdana]"Perhaps in contrast to other borderline types, the Waif may be more likely to exhibit childlike qualities that you could initially find endearing--but later on, resent. As this relationship unfolds, you'll be noticing what seems to be her limited common sense, her inability to comprehend adult reason, her lack of impulse control and her non-reciprocation. Essentially, you'll be the grown-up who's always rowing this boat, and she'll be the carefree child passenger."[/FONT]

 

The bold print above sums up my ex. I couldn't fathom how a 21 year old woman could not grasp simple, everyday concepts or exhibit such a lack of logical reasoning.

 

Thanks for the link, Downtown. It was very helpful, as has been your advice and input. In no way am I blaming the failure of my relationship entirely on her issues, but it does certainly bring to light many overlooked or unseen contributing factors. I'm simply amazed by everything I've read and learned so far.

[Still Searching]

So here's an update on my situation. The ex had gotten a hold of me after 3 1/2 weeks of NC, as she was feeling sorry for herself. After one week of talking, I went NC on her again, which lasted about a week. Last Friday night, my phone rang at 3 am. I didn't answer, but there was an email the next morning apologizing, as she felt she was the reason I didn't come back to town for my friends' graduations. My response was blunt and pretty cold, but I didn't feel there was much for me to say.

 

I got a phone call the next day, and finally heard some sense from this girl in that she'd come to several realizations about the way she'd been living her life, and for once it seemed she was ready to take some action. She asked if she could see me Sunday night, and I cautiously said yes.

 

After not seeing her for almost 2 months, it was awkward at first, but we talked about life in general, and not about an "us". It was actually pleasant, and probably went well because I had zero expecations. Before she left, she told me she loved me and missed me, and that she had never NOT wanted it to work between us, but had simply convinced herself that it couldn't. I told her that if there was ever going to be an "us" again, it would have to happen later on, and very slowly. She asked if she could talk to me in a few days, and I said I was ok with it, but haven't heard from her as of yet. She said she wanted the time to keep focused on herself and didn't want to fall back into things.

 

This is a highly condensed version (I'm on lunch break), but I'm curious as to what others might think of this. She partied hard, and messed up her schooling, but didn't sleep with anyone while we were apart. I believe her on that, because if there's one thing she never lied about, it was her and other guys. She'd gone back and forth twice now on me, and part of me thinks I'd be a fool to take her back again. Do I love her? Sure, but I know that I'm alot stronger now because of what I've been through, and question whether or not I'm just wasting my time.

[ramathorne]

I think that, like me, the only thing that you can do right now is be cautious with every move you make. Let her make the effort to see you. You seem to be at ease with the situation and it sounds like regardless of what comes out of this, you will be a better person.

 

Hope all is well!

[Downtown]

^^^^^I agree with Ram. Searching, it sounds like you are proceeding with great caution and much skepticism -- as well you should. Thanks for updating us on what is going on.

[Still Searching]

So, I'm confused as to what to do about this whole situation. We've talked a few times, and it went well, but I have been sick to my stomach all morning questioning whether or not I even want to give this another shot. Amazingly, I feel the answer might be "no". I wasn't good enough before, but I am now? For what reason? With her "back and forth" actions multiple times, I feel I'll always be expecting her to leave again/quit when things get tough. Let's face it, the first few months would likely be tough anyway, working through old issues, rebuilding trust, and all the other fun stuff.

 

Do I have enough faith in her to stick with me? Nope. (I think I'm answering all of my own questions, here).

 

Also, my friends and familiy will support whatever decision I make, but her friends/family provide none, and are against the thought of her being with me. I refuse to sneak around and lie to people, or be her little secret. If I don't have her parents support, I'm not going to pursue this.

 

She also tends to mainly have guy friends, several of which have admitted to having a higher interest in her. Either I'm old-fashioned, or have jealousy issues, but I have a tough time dealing with that. I really don't feel like putting myself through that, nor do I want her to have to deal with that insecurity.

 

I guess this is just a ramble, and mainly to get these thoughts out so they don't drive me mad. It helps for me to vent!

[Downtown]

I think I'm answering all of my own questions, here.

Yes, and they sound like mighty fine answers.