reservoirdog1 Posted April 9, 2004 Posted April 9, 2004 Not sure what the "right" way is to handle this, but I definitely know how I feel about it. TBXW is planning to have our two kids baptized on the 18th. She's also invited her boyfriend. It's not clear if he's actually going to be there or not, but I've told her (as politely as possible) that I don't want to be there if he's there. A bit of background: in August, after 7 years of what I thought was a happy union, she sat me down and told me she'd been miserable for most of the marriage. She'd also had several affairs. I knew about none of this till she told me. After a two-month attempt to reconcile during which it became clear she'd already written off the marriage, we separated. She's since taken up with a new guy, twice her age, who she started meeting platonically (so she says) during our reconciliation. He's a fellow philanderer getting divorced. I'm not comfortable being there if he's there. She's also invited my family, ostensibly as support for me, but I doubt they're interested in being there either, especially since they'll have to be pleasant to their to-be-ex DIL who betrayed and lied to their son. My Dad, especially, won't be capable of this since he all but hates her. And I don't imagine they'll be all that interested in meeting her new lover, either. For me, eight months is simply not long enough. I'm not in mourning any more, and my life is pulling together after the August bombshell, but I'm by no means ready to exchange pleasantries -- in a church, no less -- with her and her new BF. She's been living with her unhappiness for years so I'm sure it's refreshing to be in a relationship that makes her happy. I was happy for that whole time, until August. She got religion as part of her "healing process". I'm non-religious and don't believe in any of it, so I don't see a baptism as objectively very important. If we were talking about a highschool graduation, I'd suck it up and attend, no question. She seems to think it's important for the kids, but come on... our youngest is 3 and won't even know what the hell's going on, other than some guy dumping water on his head. I sent her an email trying to explain my position in a polite way. It really boils down to me not being in that space yet. I'm sure I will be in time, but I'm not yet. Frankly, if it's that important for her that I be present for the baptism, IMHO she should just postpone it. I don't expect the kids will go to hell in the next six months or so if they go unbaptized for a bit longer. (After all, TBXW lied and cheated for years and, thanks to her own recent baptism, presumably now has a "Get out of Hell Free" card.) Any thoughts, anybody? Am I being unreasonable? Or is my reluctance understandable?
sportsloving Posted April 9, 2004 Posted April 9, 2004 I sent her an email trying to explain my position in a polite way. It really boils down to me not being in that space yet. I'm sure I will be in time, but I'm not yet. Frankly, if it's that important for her that I be present for the baptism, IMHO she should just postpone it. I don't expect the kids will go to hell in the next six months or so if they go unbaptized for a bit longer. (After all, TBXW lied and cheated for years and, thanks to her own recent baptism, presumably now has a "Get out of Hell Free" card.) As you said, if it is that important to her or your children that you attend, she should have it postponed. I doubt those wee little ones even know what is going but it could be quite a turmoil if you are having to face not only the ex but also her new boyfriend in public while still reeling from the whole situation. I do wish you luck~ seems your ex has big kahoonas for even suggesting the BF be there.
much_better_off Posted April 9, 2004 Posted April 9, 2004 Well, perhaps I can say this because I'm someone who isn't religious (I was raised Catholic, but it didn't take)... but I think there are perhaps two things to consider here, and they both are centered around the children.... There is the impression that your children will get if they recognize that you are not at the baptism.... if they can understand it, anyhow, which will be that you do not value this ceremony as much as your ex does... I don't think that they'll get the impression that you don't value them, since as a child the whole thing would seem pretty ridiculous. They are bound to get the "Dad doesn't value this religion thing as much as Mom does" impression eventually, and there is no reason that you should try to disguise your alternative approach to spirituality. Right? If you do show up and there is friction because you are not ready to be in the same physical space as your ex and her new beau the kids will be able to sense that, no doubt, and perhaps that's not the idea that you want them to get, you know? Perhaps you want them to know that things are different between you and your ex, there is obviously no avoiding that, but you do want to set an example for them, and if you are concerned that you're not going to be able to do that yet, I think it might be more detrimental to show up than it is to keep your distance for a while. I don't think that came across as well as I wanted it to.... Well, anyhow, I don't think it's unreasonable to request that the baptism be postponed until you are better prepared to be amiable with your ex and her new bf in front of your children, but if the baptism doesn't mean that much to you, I don't see why you should feel like you have to attend. I understand that anything having to do with your children must be impt to you to some degree, but I don't think you'd be screwing them up if you didn't show, so long as they knew not to expect you. This is a real tough one, I wish you a lot of luck. ~N
moimeme Posted April 9, 2004 Posted April 9, 2004 Oh, this stinks. You see, if you don't go, she'll have fodder. I haven't read all your posts about her, but I have known mothers who were not above telling their kids things like 'your dad didn't care enough to go to your baptism' You didn't say how old the eldest is, but if s/he's old enough to understand you're a no-show, this could end up a problem. The good news is that baptisms are not generally really long affairs; you may have to deal with her for 30 minutes at most. Do you think you could swallow your bile that long? Or is it more that you think you'll break down? This is really, really tough. I think you can get through it, but you'd have to focus your entire attention on your kids and try not to think of her or the past at all.
Author reservoirdog1 Posted April 10, 2004 Author Posted April 10, 2004 Thanks for the responses guys. Personally, my view is that if it's so important to TBXW that I be there as my kids' father (they're 3 and 6), the invite should have been extended to me first, before it was extended to her BF. I know that in her mind that probably seems counter-intuitive, but give me a break. She talks about how BF is now "an important person in their lives", presumably by virtue of how much she has him around when the kids are with her. But it's not as though they talk about him endlessly when they're with me, or ask for HIM in the middle of the night. Should she have given me right of first refusal? For something like this, and given that she's only been with BF for a few months, I think yes. After all, however close she gets to him, he's never going to be my kids' father. The most he will ever be is their stepfather. I will always be a more important person to them than him (I will make sure of that). And it shouldn't be any other way. That's the venting part of this post. Anyway, TBXW and I talked about this. She says that, sooner or later, I'm going to have to get over this type of thing. I agree. But it's way too soon for me -- only eight months ago I thought I was in a great marriage. I told her that I was not prepared to attend if he was there. She says that she figures he'll bow out anyway if he knows I'm going, but I told her to ensure his non-presence before expecting me to attend. I'm sticking to my position and I think she's going to ask him to not attend. But we'll see what goes down in the next week. One other thing... I've not kept it from my kids (really only my daughter, since my son's too little to get it) that I don't believe in God and don't go to church. I've done so without being judgmental or critical; my little girl has asked me if I believe and I've simply said I don't. When they're with me on Sundays, they don't go to church -- that's their mother's racket. One thing that occurs to me is that TBXW's views are being rammed down their throats... an hour of church every two weeks, plus her talking to them about God whenever she wants. Shouldn't I have an equal right to instill MY beliefs in them, explain WHY I don't think God exists, etc.? Although, maybe I should just wait on that until my daughter asks me to TELL her why I don't. (That was the rambling part. Thanks for reading.)
moimeme Posted April 10, 2004 Posted April 10, 2004 if it's so important to TBXW that I be there as my kids' father (they're 3 and 6), the invite should have been extended to me first Well, I'm not impressed. You're ticked at her because she 'should' have done what you think she 'should' have done so you're going to spite your kids. Whether or not they know you are religious, the message you're sending is that an event important to them is not important to you. And all to try to get back at the ex for not asking you first. Nope. Not impressed at all.
Author reservoirdog1 Posted April 10, 2004 Author Posted April 10, 2004 No, no, no... this has nothing to do with "getting back" at her. I'll have no issue with attending, in spite of the fact that the nature of the event doesn't mean anything to me, as long as her BF isn't there. That's the only obstacle in my mind. I'm simply not physically and emotionally ready to attend an event and hang around in the presence of her and her new BF, eight months after the most important, foundational component of my life came crashing down around me. I don't want to stand there in an emotional quagmire, feeling like I'm going to vomit. Seeing and speaking to TBXW is hard enough but I do that because I have to, because we have children together. But I am simply not capable yet of standing there, watching her with her new BF. I have told her exactly that, that I will attend if he isn't there, because I can't handle that yet. In time, I'm sure I'll come to terms with it. But not yet... it's too soon. And my point (which I may not have expressed as well as I'd hoped) is simply that, if it's so important to her that I'm there, for the children's benefit, perhaps it's worth her not subjecting me to the added gut-wrench of watching her with him. She knows it's difficult for me. And I wouldn't inflict a woman in my life on her in this way -- that would be unfair. I'm asking her to show me that same understanding.
sportsloving Posted April 10, 2004 Posted April 10, 2004 It always stands to reason that you would not expect someone to do something that you are not willing to do yourself. Such as you KNOW that you would not introduce another woman to your ex as it has only been eight months since your marriage crumbled (unknown to you). Therefore to you, it is safe to reason that you don't believe she should subject you to having to play nice with her new boyfriend. Your ex, is still someone that you love(d) and therefore it is unfair that she expect that you just "move on" as quickly and painlessly as she has. I agree with you, if it is important that you be there (for the children) she should politely ask her boyfriend to not attend... or if he does, to not be part of the "family" ... perhaps in the back area? I don't know, still such a harsh situation no matter how you look at it. I do wish you luck
moimeme Posted April 10, 2004 Posted April 10, 2004 OK; I get the gut-wrenching thing. Mind you, sometimes you can surprise yourself and not be the basket case you think you'll be. Been there, had the dry kleeneces to prove it. Whatever, do your best to explain to the kidlets. I'm thinking this bit about you not being religious won't fly that well because whether you're religious or not, if it's important to your kids, they'd like you to be there. Find a better way to tell them why you don't feel up to attending that doesn't negate this religious stuff which is becoming important to them.
much_better_off Posted April 10, 2004 Posted April 10, 2004 I don't think that resevoirdog1 is being spiteful, I don't think he's being unreasonable. I think that if he isn't religious himself it's pretty impressive that he's trying his best to make this "important" event something that he can attend. I say "important" because by whose standards it's important, I'm not sure, definitely his ex thinks it's important, it's questionable how important the kids perceive it to be, and it's obviously not of high importance to him or his side of the family. ------ I think it's a unique opportunity for him to show that though he doesn't believe in the church that he supports his children, but his ex has put him in quite a predicament. If he attends because she's managed to ask her new guy to stay home, then the kids wonder where their mom's bf is... perhaps the mother would respond by informing that Dad doesn't like the new bf and asked that he not come. That would suck, preempt that if you can by keeping an open dialogue w/your children. If he decides he can't stomach it because the ex is going to be there, and Dad doesn't show up, the kids might ask, why didn't Dad come? Perhaps the mother responds with "Dad doesn't think this is important like we do" or "Dad doesn't believe in God." Well, that sucks too, but perhaps it would open a dialogue with your children. It seems that you're capable of accepting your TBXW's efforts to expose your kids to her religion, so explain that to your kids. If it appears to them that you're accepting of her way of raising them, but also demonstrate why you choose to live your life differently, without being judgemental, you're kids are going to see that religion hasn't cornered the market on love, care and understanding (things that kids are interested in.) As they get older, you can explain to your kids how important it is to temper your own beliefs with respect for the beliefs of others. I think that your kids stand a really good chance of becoming very thoughtful, caring people, whether they choose to be religious or not, because of the intimate exposure they'll have to several different ways of thinking as they grow up. If you can express your desire to your ex to allow your children to keep an open mind and allow them to think for themselves, a semi-reasonable person and parent has no choice but to form some sort of agreement with you. (I just hope that she can concede that her way is the way that is right for her, and not the only "right" way to be spiritual. If she is one-minded like that, I would get some support right away, perhaps some counseling to lay down some ground rules to keep divorced parents from bad-mouthing each other for the sake of your kids.) Best of luck to you, let yourself be mad, but don't demonstrate that in front of your kids, and don't make decisions based on it, get it out and then keep your focus. I can't wait to hear how it works out, I'll be thinking of you, especially on Easter and the 18th. ~N
Author reservoirdog1 Posted April 15, 2004 Author Posted April 15, 2004 Hey everybody... thanks for the advice and viewpoints. TBXW and I ended up having a fairly involved, at times emotional discussion about this earlier in the week. Part of the problem was that she'd initially given me the impression that she saw it as important that I be at the baptism, as the children's father, and that if I didn't go she'd take the view that they weren't important to me. As a result, I felt under some pressure to attend. We've talked about it, and we've agreed that it's something I don't have to attend. Like I said, I'm not religious and I don't see baptism as terribly important. Going to church is something the kids do only on Sundays that they're with her. I haven't participated in anything church-related, and she tells me that she hasn't told the children that I'm going to be there. Assuming that to be true, I don't think they associate church with me, only with her. I'm fine with that. And, since they don't really get what it's all about anyway, especially the youngest, they're not old enough to have their own views as to whether or not a baptism is important. Anyway, we seem to have resolved it. I haven't slagged religion or God to my kids. My daughter has asked me if I believe in God before, and I've replied honestly, without getting into the reasons why. This weekend she and I had a talk about how important it was for her to respect the views of people who don't believe in God, or who call God by a different name. It would be wrong of me to put down religion and work to undermine something that TBXW feels is important. But I can still make a contribution in the same vein, in terms of teaching my kids about tolerance, respect for the views of others, and the importance of not blindly accepting everything they read, see on TV, or hear (in church, or anywhere else), and to not be afraid to ask questions and challenge things they're told.
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