PerpetualMotion Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 That's only one data point. Plus it's not unsurprising. We are our own worst enemy. We are the most capable at holding ourselves back. As in the pretty sister's case. The pretty sister probably would reach the same amount of success with less effort. But with no effort, no one is going to get anywhere. One of many articles you can find on the internet: http://www.careerbuilder.com/Article/CB-312-The-Workplace-Do-Pretty-People-Earn-More/ Google it, and you will find many other articles that talk about the same thing. I agree with what you say. My experience is that it's easier to have success if you have personality, but no looks, than the opposite. But, as carhill likes to say, YMMV. Speaking for myself, people say I'm good looking, but the way people treat depends on my mood. If I'm in a good mood, I smile and talk more, I may even flirt a bit and usually people respond the same way. When I'm in a bad mood, I don't smile at all and only talk if I must. People either avoid me completely, or keep any interaction with me to a bare minimum.
Kelemort Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 I'm 5'8" and female, and with my bone structure (large), 165 lbs. or so is the max for me, according to BMI. Generally, men are heavier and this guy's two inches taller as well, so 180ish pounds sounds perfect for him. Not to mention that he's been building muscle and it doesn't sound like he's got much fat at all in the abdominal area - so appearance-wise and health-wise, he sounds like he's doing fine. Being SLIGHTLY overweight (10-20 pounds) isn't going to do too much to your health. It's when you start creeping over that that you're more likely to encounter health problems. The way weight settles on two different people can be very different. While according to the BMI I'm...rather overweight, most people judge me as being around 40 pounds or so overweight. I'm thick, but I don't have rolls. I've met other people my height, gender and weight who are just rolls and rolls and rolls. I'm assuming I just have more muscle and a larger bone structure, which keeps me from looking like a helpless blob. But as for the topic on hand - it can be very disappointing. I once lost about 60, 65 pounds myself. While I was still overweight after that weight loss, my life changed. People started treating me better. I was asked out on dates. Of course, this could've also corresponded with me starting college and having a fresh start - by college, most folks are starting to date compared to in high school. I admit that getting to my goal weight is probably my greatest fear - because I have always liked to believe that it's not all shallow like that. Part of me hopes it's all been in my head that people treat you differently when you look different - that I just interpreted it as being for that reason. But that aside, I also know I'm doing it for my own health and satisfaction. Glad to hear you have worked so hard and reached your goal!
Rinnix Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Am I the only one to think that there are some negative parts to being attractive too? For instance I get a lot of unwanted attention. I often get negative and over the top perverse attention from men. I get looked at with glares by other women. I even had someone refuse friendship with me because they thought that I would eventually "steal there man, as Im too pretty." I have high morals I have no interest in taking there men, I have my own. Many people will attempt to put me down if I reject them, list goes on. Yes there are benefits to looking good, but lets not forget that it goes both ways. Im not saying im a walking model, but I do belive that I have nice physical traits along with inner ones. (My Dp is me anyway.) My point is, socity isn't fair how we treat people regardless of looks.
welikeincrowds Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 It's not even just physical looks in RL but people will even treat you differently based on your avatar. Even when that avatar is not a photo. This. It's so fascinating! Plato didn't talk about beauty for nothing. I'VE BEEN SUMMONED. Granted, Plato talks about a different sort of beauty (ideal, heavenly beauty rather than earthly beauty, which he doesn't view favorably). Some philosophers will talk about attractiveness, but the sexual element plays such a huge factor that it's often more interesting for these guys to discuss why we think, like, a rock is beautiful, or a painting. The desire to **** is our force, the fundamental creative spark. I believe it is the source of inspiration and motivation for all creativity, all the great and horrible things that humans achieve. It's so powerful that we can hardly control it; sometimes we have to discuss it on forums just to stay sane. I have yet to hear a good reason as to why we find certain people at first blush more attractive over others. It would be nice to have some reasonable universal understanding. Clearly it's a very personal thing. But that we do at all -- we naturally put some in higher esteem over others, as an automatic process. So it only follows that we'd also give them more attention, better jobs. Attractiveness is the natural sorting process we use to promote exactly that sort of behavior. I mean, that's what it's for. I will say this: an interesting philosopher I mention on here a lot explains how we confuse the pleasant feelings of beauty we create in our own minds, with the idea that the object we're looking at is responsible for that beauty. Similarly -- and here's where I mention Plato -- Socrates goes on to explain how we falsely attribute a general wisdom to those who are able to create beauty in a specific way. It might be possible that because attractive people do something pleasant to us -- they practice the "art of attractiveness" -- we might automatically attribute some prowess to them, as though they possess skills and talent and vision and intelligence and passion, like we do with any artist or master. Just a thought!
Jazzari Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Am I the only one to think that there are some negative parts to being attractive too? For instance I get a lot of unwanted attention. I often get negative and over the top perverse attention from men. I get looked at with glares by other women. I even had someone refuse friendship with me because they thought that I would eventually "steal there man, as Im too pretty." I have high morals I have no interest in taking there men, I have my own. Many people will attempt to put me down if I reject them, list goes on. Yes there are benefits to looking good, but lets not forget that it goes both ways. Im not saying im a walking model, but I do belive that I have nice physical traits along with inner ones. (My Dp is me anyway.) My point is, socity isn't fair how we treat people regardless of looks.There are lots of benefits to being attractive, but I agree there are also drawbacks. Being thought of as brainless/helpless is the one that bugs me the most. I had a friend who was not just pretty, but stunning. She was a really good person and totally oblivious to her effects most of the time. The problem is, all growing up, people treated her like she was helpless. They did everything for her. So she had zero people skills and zero confidence in herself. Later in life she - she's older, had 2 kids, got a divorce and gained alot of weight. And she's totally lost. People no longer want to take care of her.
Rinnix Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 There are lots of benefits to being attractive, but I agree there are also drawbacks. Being thought of as brainless/helpless is the one that bugs me the most. I had a friend who was not just pretty, but stunning. She was a really good person and totally oblivious to her effects most of the time. The problem is, all growing up, people treated her like she was helpless. They did everything for her. So she had zero people skills and zero confidence. Exactly! People come to the assumption that we have nothing else to offer. I am more then walking flesh. I hate how some men will try and baby talk me as if im slow, they actually belive that I appreciate there behaviour. Then they are puzzled when I tell them why I have NO interest in them. I can take care of myself, I am strong and independent. People need to respect others regardless of outer beauty.
kiss_andmakeup Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 I actually receive more attention and kinder, more courteous treatment, from men and women, when I'm dressed down. When going to work I always have my hair/make-up in order, and usually wear something professional but trendy (I'm a hairstylist so I can wear pretty much whatever I want as long as I look professional & relevant). Heels, a pencil skirt, and a blousey top is a common outfit. Should I stop somewhere on my way to/from work, whether it's a restaurant or store or what have you, I don't really receive positive attention. Men look but never approach me and women act/talk to me like they just expect me to be a snob based on the way I look (which isn't the case at all). If I run to the supermarket in my faded old jeans, a tee shirt, hair in a ponytail etc, it's a whole different story. Men actually approach me and/or blatantly hit on me and women are kinder & more courteous. I'm not sure how relevant this is to the thread but I thought it was interesting.
Darren Taylor Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Am I the only one to think that there are some negative parts to being attractive too? For instance I get a lot of unwanted attention. I often get negative and over the top perverse attention from men. I get looked at with glares by other women. I even had someone refuse friendship with me because they thought that I would eventually "steal there man, as Im too pretty." I have high morals I have no interest in taking there men, I have my own. Many people will attempt to put me down if I reject them, list goes on. Yes there are benefits to looking good, but lets not forget that it goes both ways. Im not saying im a walking model, but I do belive that I have nice physical traits along with inner ones. (My Dp is me anyway.) My point is, socity isn't fair how we treat people regardless of looks. Sure there's negative aspects. People are jealous of you, some treat you like sh*t for no good reason, some pretend to like you then talk massive amounts of sh*t behind your back. BTW, I had neighbors some years ago here in Santa Monica that were from Quebec. French-Canadians are some cool people.
Rinnix Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Sure there's negative aspects. People are jealous of you, some treat you like sh*t for no good reason, some pretend to like you then talk massive amounts of sh*t behind your back. BTW, I had neighbors some years ago here in Santa Monica that were from Quebec. French-Canadians are some cool people. Its just not fair how people treat you according to appearances. People always assume im stuck up, they don't take the time to know me. I have a big heart and most people don't even see it. There are some good people here, though Im not too fond of Quebec, Im sure happy to live in Canada.
Darren Taylor Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Its just not fair how people treat you according to appearances. People always assume im stuck up, they don't take the time to know me. I have a big heart and most people don't even see it. I get the same thing. People think I'm stuck up as well because I'm pretty quiet. I'm far from stuck up, but attractive people also have some pre-conceived notions. There are some good people here, though Im not too fond of Quebec, Im sure happy to live in Canada. My neighbors were from a town called Beaconsfield. They were nice people, but they too didn't really have anything good to say about Quebec. The two things they constantly bad mouthed were the taxes and health care.
Rinnix Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Being a person on the other end of the spectrum, I would take the burdens of being eye candy anyday. I would have tons of fun making other dudes envious and love woman winking at me all the time. I would be in effin heaven, but I wouldn't become an *********. If yo uwere average or ugly....you'd want those perverish stares and cat fight woman back ASAP...trust me. I always thought beauty was in the eye of the beholder anyway. Im generally not attracted to what others are. Im not really into over the top muscular men. I don't go for the mysterious look either. Im attracted to what most people would find to be "nerdy". Physical beauty doesn't last forever, I just hope that ill have someone who takes me for everything I am.
threebyfate Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 You are right, my attitude has changed a lot. I take it you mean interesting in a positive way? Because I'm assuming the point you're trying to make is that it's not all due to the gaining of muscle mass? If that's the case, then I agree with you. My improved success has to do with everything. Not just my physical body changes. I've made a lot of mental adjustments, and even life style changes. Hence if I can do it, all the whiners on LS can do the same or better. I'm just an average guy. But the same can be said of the people that have lost weight. Is it the superficial looks? Or is it the confidence that came with knowing they're in better shape? It's really difficult to measure. But all I can say is, I believe it made a difference. Even if it's just a placebo effect. And at the end of the day, if it works, it works. I'm not going to complain. And as far as the "larger" perspective of the importance of looks, I've seen the same even outside of dating. Good looking people get higher pay, and treated nicer. It works in the corporate world as well. Looks and connection can get you very far. I'm not saying capability is not important (if that's the part you disagree with), but I'm saying it's lower on the importance list.I am saying that in a positive way. But as far as the bolded is concerned, generally, characteristics and traits don't happen in a vacuum. While looks can get you a foot in the door, without the other necessary characteristics, whether we're talking corporately, in reference to relationships, and pretty much anything in life, you're going to fail if you're solely relying on looks. Take two people with identically 10 positive traits. Give one of them one more positive trait and he/she will go further than the other one since they will be considered more well-rounded as an overall positive package.
Rinnix Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 I get the same thing. People think I'm stuck up as well because I'm pretty quiet. I'm far from stuck up, but attractive people also have some pre-conceived notions. My neighbors were from a town called Beaconsfield. They were nice people, but they too didn't really have anything good to say about Quebec. The two things they constantly bad mouthed were the taxes and health care. People thought the same of me because I was really shy and introverted. I always was a loner. Not anymore though, broke out of the shyness Im not really fond of Quebec myself, I have hopes to move to a more english area. I don't have any complaints about the heath care. Taxes is always a reason to complain though
Darren Taylor Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 People thought the same of me because I was really shy and introverted. I always was a loner. Not anymore though, broke out of the shyness Im not really fond of Quebec myself, I have hopes to move to a more english area. I don't have any complaints about the heath care. Taxes is always a reason to complain though I'm still shy and introverted. Some think I'm stuck up, some think it's cute and mysterious. Can't say we get many new neighbors from Canada. We get a lot from the East coast, people that move here when they become rich, retire, etc.
Rinnix Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 I'm still shy and introverted. Some think I'm stuck up, some think it's cute and mysterious. I would think shy is cute, I don't see how people could say its stuck up. Makes me wonder what goes on in peoples minds. I did some volunteer work which really helped me be more open with people, kicked up my social skils. Now im less awkward with people. Enjoyed the work too.
fishtaco Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 I am saying that in a positive way. But as far as the bolded is concerned, generally, characteristics and traits don't happen in a vacuum. While looks can get you a foot in the door, without the other necessary characteristics, whether we're talking corporately, in reference to relationships, and pretty much anything in life, you're going to fail if you're solely relying on looks. Take two people with identically 10 positive traits. Give one of them one more positive trait and he/she will go further than the other one since they will be considered more well-rounded as an overall positive package. Yes, I agree. But what I'm talking about is having different positive traits. Looks as a positive trait is more effective than capability as a positive trait. Of course a person with both will be better than either of them. But when you can only pick one, pick looks. Although a dumb person with looks will still piss away all of his/her opportunities. So it takes reasonable amount of wisdom and intelligence to utilize their strengths, as with anything else. That's my personal perspective, I could be wrong of course. I've seen far too many people get more while working less. But sometimes, people tend to only pick things out that validates their views. I could be doing that, I don't know. Maybe I'm a glass is half empty guy.
SteveC80 Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 (edited) fishtaco, I have no idea how you look and even though I disagree with some of what you say, you do have something about your attitude that's interesting. You might not have had the same attitude back when you were younger. lol women can never admit they are just as shallow as guys it has to be about attitude or confidence and looks have nothing to do with it As if a jolly ugly fat men will get the same looks and attention as a guy with a chiseled body and handsome face..Maybe in fantasy land.. Theres guys who because of their lack of looks will never even the opportunity to get their foot in the door with most women no matter how much "confidence" they have or great their personality is where good looking guys will get numerous shots to prove their worth to women.. Edited April 27, 2011 by SteveC80
threebyfate Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Yes, I agree. But what I'm talking about is having different positive traits. Looks as a positive trait is more effective than capability as a positive trait. Of course a person with both will be better than either of them. But when you can only pick one, pick looks. Although a dumb person with looks will still piss away all of his/her opportunities. So it takes reasonable amount of wisdom and intelligence to utilize their strengths, as with anything else. That's my personal perspective, I could be wrong of course. I've seen far too many people get more while working less. But sometimes, people tend to only pick things out that validates their views. I could be doing that, I don't know. Maybe I'm a glass is half empty guy.All you have to do is to look at how Steve isolated my first post and twisted it into his perception of my intent. Notice how he doesn't include my second post which expanded on my first post to you? I've seen the dumbest receptionists get jobs due to being good-looking. But they don't last very long if they're in any way, impacting negatively on client perception of reliability of the company. As an example: Hot receptionist keeps pissing off substantial revenue generating Client A by putting him on hold on a regular basis or accidentally cutting him off. Client A threatens to leave. Hot receptionist gets fired.
SteveC80 Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 All you have to do is to look at how Steve isolated my first post and twisted it into his perception of my intent. Notice how he doesn't include my second post which expanded on my first post to you? I've seen the dumbest receptionists get jobs due to being good-looking. But they don't last very long if they're in any way, impacting negatively on client perception of reliability of the company. As an example: Hot receptionist keeps pissing off substantial revenue generating Client A by putting him on hold on a regular basis or accidentally cutting him off. Client A threatens to leave. Hot receptionist gets fired. I read it and of course you cant rely solely on looks but as long as youre good looking youll get numerous opportunites in the dating world to prove yourself and improve in other areas outside of your looks.. If you are unattractive or ugly you will have a tough time finding someone to even give you a date and chance to prove your worth no matter how great your personality or "confidence" is
Jazzari Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 If you are unattractive or ugly you will have a tough time finding someone to even give you a date and chance to prove your worth no matter how great your personality or "confidence" isSo you're telling me that unattractive/ugly people won't date other unattractive/ugly people?
SteveC80 Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 So you're telling me that unattractive/ugly people won't date other unattractive/ugly people? Some wont..some dont want to be rejected thosuands of time till on says yes.. I never had a problem gettign dates but i cant imagine being an ugly guy and thinking i have to hit on this ugly women becasue she may be ugly enough to say yes..gotta be tough
Darren Taylor Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 I have to agree with Steve on this one. I act no different now than I did 4-5 years ago, and the more attention I get(from both genders) is night and day. It's almost sickening to me.
Jazzari Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Some wont..some dont want to be rejected thosuands of time till on says yes.. I never had a problem gettign dates but i cant imagine being an ugly guy and thinking i have to hit on this ugly women becasue she may be ugly enough to say yes..gotta be tough I don't understand this thinking at all. I think my current SO is very attractive. He makes my heart go thunka-thunka just thinking about him. But I'm very sure a mega-model would turn up her nose in a heartbeat. Aren't people generally attracted to those that match them physically?
Darren Taylor Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Aren't people generally attracted to those that match them physically? Usually. For many people, they have no idea what league they're in.
SteveC80 Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 But I'm very sure a mega-model would turn up her nose in a heartbeat. Aren't people generally attracted to those that match them physically? I think most people are attracted to the above average looking and stunning no matter where they fall on the attraction scale but most people settle for what they can get.. Do i think two obese people or two people with ugly faces were insanely attracted to each other physically at first sight? I doubt it..They figured its all they can get and would rather be with someone then be alone..
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