Judged due to minimum dating history.

[ASG]

I respect the difference of "opinions" but when persons such as ASG go on rants and tear down another OP,then its time to speak up and clear the air.

No good comes from speaking from an authority stance rather then a mutual adult giving healthy advisal.

 

I didn't. I gave MY opinion, that for me, someone I date needs to have experience. I also said that not everyone is like me and that I even have friends who were completely inexperienced in their mid to late 20's and found a girl and married!

 

I did go on rants on this thread, with RP39, but only because after hours of posting and trying to try and help him, he just started insulting people and saying that he didn't want to change. Well, if he doesn't want to do anything to get a date, then stop bitching.

[fortyninethousand322]

Lol this thread is just packed with chumps grasping at straws as they're being weeded out of the gene pool. Some of the bs rationalizations are just painful to read. Being a perma-virgin does NOT make you more pure or more selective. Being bad at sex is not going to somehow endear you to "quality women." And say what you must but not drinking IS going to severely restrict your dating pool. Almost every girl I know(all social and educated people) at least drinks socially. Not drinking just reflects a life philosophy that clashes with those of typical, funloving people, believe it or not. you've gotta at least recognize the problem in order to address it, instead of engaging in a mutual masturbation/validation session with other men who're unsuccessful with women.When women are for once honest with their expectations(hats off to AS zengirl stargazer) the men get butthurt and start mudslinging. Just pathetic.

 

Lord:rolleyes: Did you have anything positive to contribute to the conversation? Or did you just come here to tear people down?

[irc333]

Lord:rolleyes: Did you have anything positive to contribute to the conversation? Or did you just come here to tear people down?

 

Hell, my date hassled me/teased me for not having more than one glass of wine.

 

Not having ENOUGH to drink.

 

Told me she was a l ush right there. lol It was a quick meet and greet, I'm not going to get "Buzzed" and then drive home.

[orangelady]

Hell, my date hassled me/teased me for not having more than one glass of wine.

 

Not having ENOUGH to drink.

 

Told me she was a l ush right there. lol It was a quick meet and greet, I'm not going to get "Buzzed" and then drive home.

 

On my dating profile, I actually check the box for my match preference as "Don't drink" instead of "drinker" or "Occassionally". I dig guys who don't drink.

[alexandra.]

Hell, my date hassled me/teased me for not having more than one glass of wine.

 

Not having ENOUGH to drink.

 

Did it occur to you that she may have been trying to tease you in a playful/flirty way?

[One Goal's Dad]

Lol this thread is just packed with chumps grasping at straws as they're being weeded out of the gene pool. Some of the bs rationalizations are just painful to read. Being a perma-virgin does NOT make you more pure or more selective. Being bad at sex is not going to somehow endear you to "quality women." And say what you must but not drinking IS going to severely restrict your dating pool. Almost every girl I know(all social and educated people) at least drinks socially. Not drinking just reflects a life philosophy that clashes with those of typical, funloving people, believe it or not. you've gotta at least recognize the problem in order to address it, instead of engaging in a mutual masturbation/validation session with other men who're unsuccessful with women.When women are for once honest with their expectations(hats off to AS zengirl stargazer) the men get butthurt and start mudslinging. Just pathetic.

 

Judgmental, are we?

 

Typical kike:sick:

[Eeyore79]

I don't have relationship experience and even if I got to the sex I don't know what she looks like under there. It would take me a quite a few times to figure it out and nobody is that patient. There's no way to get this experience if nobody will give me a chance.

 

I dated a virgin in his late twenties who had never been in a relationship, and it really wasn't a problem. It took four attempts at sex (not to mention several attempts at oral sex) for him to calm down enough to be able to have an orgasm. It then took a few more months for him to learn how to give me an orgasm in return. It wasn't a big deal; I cared about him, so I much preferred to be patient with him than to date a more experienced guy who I didn't have the same deep feelings for.

[alexandra.]

I have been following this thread with interest, as I am currently dating (well, have been on a few dates with) a late-twenties man who I suspect has no dating experience.

 

I'm currently in my mid twenties, I dated a little in my teens and have recently come out of a long term, serious (relatively healthy) relationship. So whilst I am not the girl who has never-been-single I consider myself to have some 'experience.'

 

A lot of the male posters here seem to be blaming their lack of dating on some mystery of feminine psychology ("they only want the guy other girls want.") or the fickleness of women ("oh, if she knows I have limited dating experience, she'll shut me out, despite me having otherwise attractive qualities") Uh, no.

 

Anyway, this guy i've been seeing - I really don't care about the *fact* of his inexperience. There's lots of reasons guys may have limited experience - other priorities, anxiety etc. I've been to those places myself at various times in my life. There was a spark of attraction/curiosity there so I was happy to explore that. HOWEVER I am not going to go on another date with him as he has killed any attraction I felt for him with his self-defeating attitude.

 

So, how to kill attraction (at least, for me!):

 

1. He didn't ask me out initially - he 'confessed he liked me' and apologized for this fact. I had to suggest we go on a date and get to know each other better, and he agreed. After a while it was clear he was lacking the confidence to follow through on this so I had to plan the date.

 

2. He has made many comments hinting at his low self-esteem and lack of dating skills, or mistakes he has made. He has also been very indecisive with times, places etc. of dates - constantly deferring to me to make the decision. I am fine with providing a bit of reassurance - but I think this has crossed the line into mothering/emasculating territory. I've seen some dodgy PUA material (well, it's all dodgy, really ) that says women smell fear. Whilst this is not strictly true, people do not do themselves any favours by constantly drawing attention to their own insecurities and shortcomings.

 

3. He is not very forthcoming with conversation (shy? social anxiety? nothing in common?) so I feel like I have to do a lot of work to keep any conversation going. Someone suggested that if you're a bit socially awkward, you should practice banter. SECONDED. I used to lack confidence socially but i've since been working in people-facing jobs where I have to banter a lot, and also made an effort to try new things socially. It was quite difficult and draining at first but I feel like it has helped my confidence a lot.

 

TLDR version - If a girl is attracted to your other qualities, she will overlook your inexperience. If you have landed a first date with her she obviously found something about you attractive/intriguing. However if your attitude sucks it will turn her off pretty quickly. Dating "skills" make things happen more smoothly but they are not the whole picture. Cultivate your other attractive qualities (I don't just mean physical) and practice your social interactions.

Edited April 26, 2011 by alexandra.

[fortyninethousand322]

You know I think this is pretty spot on. For me personally, those three things you mentioned do not apply for the most part. I think I just have a personal psychological barrier with women that I think I have a chance with and whom I’m interested in. I’m known kind of jokingly among my friends as “the hijabi whisperer”. I’m great in conversations with Muslim girls who wear headscarves. Why? Because they’re “safe”, I know I have essentially no chance with them (culturally) and I’m not interested in them anyway so I can banter away without a care in the world. But, put me in a situation with a girl who is cute and single (or might be single and can date) and I can clam up and overthink things.

 

Why is this? I think I trace my psychological issues back to high school. There was a cute girl that I struck up a conversation with and eventually asked on a date. She gave me one of those non-answers that mean no, and I moved on. But, then one of her “friends” who was also my “friend” kept badgering me as to why I dared to ask her out, what I thought we had in common, etc. I guess I was ahead of my time, because to me a date is not a proposal, just two people having coffee/lunch/whatever seeing if anything’s there. After enduring that inquisition I concluded (wrongly) that it was better to wait for a woman to show you interest before you ever even approach her. Supplemented with tales from my friends about how college women love “nice guys” I decided that dating in high school was overrated and that I would just put all my eggs in the college basket.

 

But, I was completely unprepared for the social reality of a commuter school. It’s not like my friends’ colleges where you are basically forced to interact with people pretty much every day. This school was big, had a lot of students, many of whom were busy with internships, jobs, etc. and were on a very tight schedule going to school to learn, not get chatted up by random people. Sure, there were people looking to make friends and more, and I eventually found them. But it wasn’t until my second semester that I actually made a friend, otherwise my day consisted of going to class then going home and working on the weekends. The summer afterwards I spend working, hanging out with my high school friends, and playing basketball three times a week for 4-5 hours at a time (I can’t help it, I love playing basketball), again, I didn’t meet any women (but it was the last time I can remember truly being happy). I have finally made a decent amount of friends after getting comfortable at my school, but they’re all guys who don’t know a lot of women and in many cases lucked into their current girlfriends (even though they’re all cool guys, not nerds at all).

 

So, basically I’m like a dog who didn’t get socialized properly around other dogs. Sure, it’s not impossible for me to learn to be comfortable talking to girls and getting dates, but it’s hard. I mean really hard. I have a lot of insecurities that I hide with a stern face and an overall highly serious demeanor, but it’s just a suit of armor protecting an otherwise fragile self-esteem.

 

What I need to do is get some new hobbies. A few of my friends and I have signed up for a co-ed basketball league which is step one on my path to meeting new people. But, so far most of the stuff that I’d be interested in (book clubs, foreign language meetups etc.) are things that take place 45+ minutes away from me. It’s not terribly far, but it’s far enough that I’d be tempted not to show up consistently. I don’t want people to feel sorry for me, or pity me, etc., I joined this site to get help getting better at dating, I have learned a lot so far and hopefully will learn more. I think I’m only good break away from being comfortable, hopefully that break comes sooner than later.

[Imajerk17]

While the sentiment behind it is real, the word "training" was a bit tongue-in-cheek. My point is that rarely does someone know how to be a good partner in their first relationship, and I've had several very serious relationships (lived together with one, talked about potential marriage with a few others, was engaged to my HS sweetheart) so I'm not interested in that disparity. There are things you just "learn" by having serious relationships and that I find lacking in those who've never had them. They don't get it, and I don't want to be the one who explains it at this stage in the game.

 

Well, I'm not sure about this. Going by the threads here, there are a lot of "experienced" people in their 30's who keep getting themselves into the same bad situations. If they really were learning so much from their relationships, they would know better by now!

 

A woman who is only 26 and has already lived together or talked marriage with *four* guys would give me and many other guys *serious* pause. That's not a sign of maturity, it's a sign of co-dependence. Or some serious issue--I'd wonder if she knows how to be "alone". Does she have any sense of herself outside of a relationship?

 

Ladies, don't hem yourself in with your limiting beliefs...

Edited April 26, 2011 by Imajerk17

[somedude81]

I have been following this thread with interest, as I am currently dating (well, have been on a few dates with) a late-twenties man who I suspect has no dating experience.

 

 

So, how to kill attraction (at least, for me!):

 

1. He didn't ask me out initially

 

2. He has made many comments hinting at his low self-esteem and lack of dating skills, or mistakes he has made.

 

3. He is not very forthcoming with conversation

 

TLDR version - If a girl is attracted to your other qualities, she will overlook your inexperience. If you have landed a first date with her she obviously found something about you attractive/intriguing. However if your attitude sucks it will turn her off pretty quickly. Dating "skills" make things happen more smoothly but they are not the whole picture. Cultivate your other attractive qualities (I don't just mean physical) and practice your social interactions.

If I may ask, why did get into a relationship with him if he had all those negatives.

 

What were his other qualities that overcame that?

[irc333]

Sometimes an unstable relatioship history is probably worse than someone with little relationship history.

 

There was this one woman I know, suprisingly lives in the same local area as I do.

 

I noticed she was age 44, single, never married, no children and does not want any children.

 

Definately, ideal since I have no marraige under my belt, no kids, and I'm even not wanting kids.

 

As we talked, apparently, I found out she had turned down future possible marriage material men due to her selfishness, and she admits to being selfish.

 

Apparently, she's really deep into a constant competitive, weekend athletic hobby that she spends a lot of time with, and her sig others and apparently, aparently, her hobby was getting in the way of them being able to spend time together.

 

Sounds like she was a commitment phobe, but she said if she met the right guy, she'd get married.

 

She has a sister that's already married with children, and 2 grand children....making the single sister a great aunt. And she said she had a great family life, and she has no real reason NOT to be married or good excuse....and blames her own selfishness for having not ever been married, or just avoiding the proposals.

 

She even severed ties with me, because apparently she wanted to see if she could take her current "friendship" with a guy she knew for a while to the next level, apparently he was commitment phobic too...but they might "try it out"

 

Yeah, she she had a relationship history, but apparently can't seem to make up her frickin mind about what she wants.

 

So how is this really any better than someone who hadn't been through the gambit of failed or non-commital relationships, esp. if they're at an age where they should've done something by now.

 

 

Some people go through these crappy relationships, never avoiding the guys that beat them, cheat on them, abuse them, drug usage, etc.

 

And everytime, they continue dating THESE guys? So how are these people compare to the SMART ones who have avoided these kinds of peole all their lives, and perhaps these are the ones with less relationship experience?

 

I noticed no one noted anything about my "I don't have to place my hand in the fire in to know it burns."

 

But apparently, people would like to learn the hard way. When I can just avoid it altogether.

 

Well, I'm not sure about this. Going by the threads here, there are a lot of "experienced" people in their 30's who keep getting themselves into the same bad situations. If they really were learning so much from their relationships, they would know better by now!

 

A woman who is only 26 and has already lived together or talked marriage with *four* guys would give me and many other guys *serious* pause. That's not a sign of maturity, it's a sign of co-dependence. Or some serious issue--I'd wonder if she knows how to be "alone". Does she have any sense of herself outside of a relationship?

 

Ladies, don't hem yourself in with your limiting beliefs...

[GivenUp0083]

Sometimes an unstable relatioship history is probably worse than someone with little relationship history.

 

There was this one woman I know, suprisingly lives in the same local area as I do.

 

I noticed she was age 44, single, never married, no children and does not want any children.

 

Definately, ideal since I have no marraige under my belt, no kids, and I'm even not wanting kids.

 

As we talked, apparently, I found out she had turned down future possible marriage material men due to her selfishness, and she admits to being selfish.

 

Apparently, she's really deep into a constant competitive, weekend athletic hobby that she spends a lot of time with, and her sig others and apparently, aparently, her hobby was getting in the way of them being able to spend time together.

 

Sounds like she was a commitment phobe, but she said if she met the right guy, she'd get married.

 

She has a sister that's already married with children, and 2 grand children....making the single sister a great aunt. And she said she had a great family life, and she has no real reason NOT to be married or good excuse....and blames her own selfishness for having not ever been married, or just avoiding the proposals.

 

She even severed ties with me, because apparently she wanted to see if she could take her current "friendship" with a guy she knew for a while to the next level, apparently he was commitment phobic too...but they might "try it out"

 

Yeah, she she had a relationship history, but apparently can't seem to make up her frickin mind about what she wants.

 

So how is this really any better than someone who hadn't been through the gambit of failed or non-commital relationships, esp. if they're at an age where they should've done something by now.

 

 

Some people go through these crappy relationships, never avoiding the guys that beat them, cheat on them, abuse them, drug usage, etc.

 

And everytime, they continue dating THESE guys? So how are these people compare to the SMART ones who have avoided these kinds of peole all their lives, and perhaps these are the ones with less relationship experience?

 

I noticed no one noted anything about my "I don't have to place my hand in the fire in to know it burns."

 

But apparently, people would like to learn the hard way. When I can just avoid it altogether.

 

Apparently it's apparent that this apparently independent woman apparently wasn't into you apparently. You need to be more apparent with your apparent apparences to that women with apparent interests that apparently don't fit your apparences don't apparently waste their apparent time on an apparently awkward guy like you apparently.

[Tayla]

I didn't. I gave MY opinion, that for me, someone I date needs to have experience. I also said that not everyone is like me and that I even have friends who were completely inexperienced in their mid to late 20's and found a girl and married!

 

I did go on rants on this thread, with RP39, but only because after hours of posting and trying to try and help him, he just started insulting people and saying that he didn't want to change. Well, if he doesn't want to do anything to get a date, then stop bitching.

 

I can respect you for admitting your error. Live and learn.

[alexandra.]

If I may ask, why did get into a relationship with him if he had all those negatives.

 

What were his other qualities that overcame that?

 

Well, I wouldn't call a few dates a relationship.

 

I don't want to get into specifics, but basically we work in different areas for the same company and had been on the same team for a few projects before dating.

 

We seem to share some similar core values, and have a couple of mutual interests. His behaviour (before dating) indicated he is a real gentleman. I also found him physically attractive (less so now because of his body language).

 

I knew he reserved from working with him, but I didn't realise it stemmed from low-self confidence/anxiety. I just thought he was cool, or a bit aloof, you know. I was hoping he would open up/loosen up a bit on our dates but that hasn't really happened.

 

And to be honest I don't consider a few dates a big deal. There are flickers of attraction passing between people all the time that can be explored or ignored, no big deal. It's not like every crush or date is going to end in marriage. So I was happy to explore this. However the attraction I felt is/was not strong enough for me to want to spend months and months bringing him out of his shell, and he has not done anything to deepen that attraction.

 

Something that helped me loosen up a lot during social interaction was realising that nobody listens to the negative internal monologue in your head except you. People have too much other stuff going on to examine you that closely. I think this guy needs to realise it too

[alexandra.]

Sometimes an unstable relatioship history is probably worse than someone with little relationship history.

 

Some people go through these crappy relationships, never avoiding the guys that beat them, cheat on them, abuse them, drug usage, etc.

 

I noticed no one noted anything about my "I don't have to place my hand in the fire in to know it burns."

 

But apparently, people would like to learn the hard way. When I can just avoid it altogether.

 

This really smells like rationalisation, and self-protection. Not just your posts but several people on here seem to imply that everyone who has more than one relationship in their lives is unhealthy, self destructive, etc. I'm sorry but do you have any statistics on the actual percentage of people in abusive relationships?

 

It is absolutely possible to having a mutually supportive, healthy relationship that ends, for whatever reason. You learn from it, the good and the bad, and try and improve yourself for the next relationship or whatever else life throws at you. It's natural to want to connect with another human being.

 

People who move through multiple unhealthy relationships often have their own self-esteem issues. It is not the fact of connecting in itself.

[alexandra.]

You know I think this is pretty spot on. For me personally, those three things you mentioned do not apply for the most part. I think I just have a personal psychological barrier with women that I think I have a chance with and whom I’m interested in. I’m known kind of jokingly among my friends as “the hijabi whisperer”. I’m great in conversations with Muslim girls who wear headscarves. Why? Because they’re “safe”, I know I have essentially no chance with them (culturally) and I’m not interested in them anyway so I can banter away without a care in the world. But, put me in a situation with a girl who is cute and single (or might be single and can date) and I can clam up and overthink things.

 

I know what you mean here. Many people have this issue - men and women - myself included. I am very outgoing and sociable with my clients and co-workers because I am essentially playing a role I am comfortable in. In more personal social interactions, I am less confident, I think because there is a fear that people will assess my *real* personality unfavourably, think I am boring, weird whatever. But if you keep putting yourself out there, and work on accepting yourself and recognising that you are a valid human being just like everyone else it DOES get easier.

 

This school was big, had a lot of students, many of whom were busy with internships, jobs, etc. and were on a very tight schedule going to school to learn, not get chatted up by random people. Sure, there were people looking to make friends and more, and I eventually found them. But it wasn’t until my second semester that I actually made a friend, otherwise my day consisted of going to class then going home and working on the weekends.

 

Once again, you are not alone here, this is so, so common. Many students feel isolated because there is this myth that college is the best time of your life.

 

What I need to do is get some new hobbies. A few of my friends and I have signed up for a co-ed basketball league which is step one on my path to meeting new people. But, so far most of the stuff that I’d be interested in (book clubs, foreign language meetups etc.) are things that take place 45+ minutes away from me. It’s not terribly far, but it’s far enough that I’d be tempted not to show up consistently. I don’t want people to feel sorry for me, or pity me, etc., I joined this site to get help getting better at dating, I have learned a lot so far and hopefully will learn more. I think I’m only good break away from being comfortable, hopefully that break comes sooner than later.

 

You come across as self-reflective and proactive. I think if you continue on this path you will get there.

[Imajerk17]

I do have to say though, from reading the dudes' posts on this thread, that there is A LOT of whining going on. "Wah! Wah! Wah!"--cry me a river.

 

Stop it guys. It's unbecoming and it's not at all masculine.

 

I WILL say this though ladies, that jumping from serious relationship to serious relationship like they were apartments is unhealthful too. You have to know how to be alone.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Imajerk17

[fortyninethousand322]

I do have to say though, from reading the dudes' posts on this thread, that there is A LOT of whining going on. "Wah! Wah! Wah!"--cry me a river.

 

Stop it guys. It's unbecoming and it's not at all masculine.

 

I WILL say this though ladies, that jumping from serious relationship to serious relationship like they were apartments is unhealthful too. You have to know how to be alone.

 

"Whenever you feel like criticizing any one...just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had." - F. Scott Fitzgerald (I hate the Great Gatsby by the way, I just like this quote)

 

Look, I understand you think most of us on here were "whining" and singing the blues. But really, aside from the more hysterical posts, surely you can admit that guys who are inexperienced have a somewhat harder time than guys who have been dating since they were 16. And that being inexperienced can be uniquely frustrating.

[Imajerk17]

"Whenever you feel like criticizing any one...just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had." - F. Scott Fitzgerald (I hate the Great Gatsby by the way, I just like this quote)

 

Look, I understand you think most of us on here were "whining" and singing the blues. But really, aside from the more hysterical posts, surely you can admit that guys who are inexperienced have a somewhat harder time than guys who have been dating since they were 16. And that being inexperienced can be uniquely frustrating.

 

Women don't really care about how "experienced" you are. Instead, they care about how you "make them" feel. This is a skill you can actually learn. It involves going out and meeting women and yes, getting shot down. In the process you become more comfortable around them and you learn some specific things you can do better--what to talk to them about, what not to, and so on.

 

It also involves becoming a more compelling individual--"self-improvement".

 

I posted a link a while back: http://www.menspsychology.com . I would highly recommend you and the other guys on this thread check it out. Many people on here probably would say that it is too PUA-ish (whatever that means), but don't listen to them. They're the ones who are whining about their relationships and the mistakes they just keep on making.

 

If you really want to learn to get better with women, why is *this* forum where you are getting most of your advice anyway? Posting here just isn't a good use of your time.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Imajerk17

[fortyninethousand322]

Women don't really care about how "experienced" you are. Instead, they care about how you "make them" feel. This is a skill you can actually learn. It involves going out and meeting women and yes, getting shot down. In the process you become more comfortable around them and you learn some specific things you can do better.

 

I posted a link a while back: http://www.menspsychology.com . I would highly recommend you and the other guys on this thread check it out.

 

If you really want to learn to get better with women, why is *this* forum where you are getting most of your advice anyway?

 

I'm up for getting shot down, I've been shot down before and I'm sure will be again. My biggest issue is finding places to meet women because I seldom find myself around them.

 

I look at your link. I wouldn't say this is the only place or even the primary place where I look to get advice. However the internet is generally the only place I feel comfortable discussing my issues, due to the anonymity of it. The person I talk about this with the most always tells me that "it'll happen when I least expect it" which is empty advice. I need something of more substance, maybe even a demonstration. I don't know.

[Imajerk17]

I'm up for getting shot down, I've been shot down before and I'm sure will be again. My biggest issue is finding places to meet women because I seldom find myself around them.

 

Good on being willing to take risks. If you aren't coming across many young women to begin with though, you will have to change your lifestyle so that you are around women more. This could mean anything from changing when you do your grocery shopping (you can meet women in the grocery store) to trying new hobbies like yoga, to actually moving to a big city.

 

This might sound like a lot, but look at it this way. You're not going to be happy unless you feel you have reasonable control over your dating life. And you can't have control over your dating life if you aren't meeting women regularly! I mean, you might hit the jackpot and connect with the next woman you see, but it's unlikely.

 

I look at your link. I wouldn't say this is the only place or even the primary place where I look to get advice. However the internet is generally the only place I feel comfortable discussing my issues, due to the anonymity of it. The person I talk about this with the most always tells me that "it'll happen when I least expect it" which is empty advice. I need something of more substance, maybe even a demonstration. I don't know.

Sure. The thing is that teaching guys how to meet and approach women by taking them out and showing them how it is done, is a pretty big industry. (I am training to do that myself.) There are plenty of resources online. Edited April 27, 2011 by Imajerk17

[fortyninethousand322]

Good on being willing to take risks. If you aren't coming across many young women to begin with though, you will have to change your lifestyle so that you are around women more. This could mean anything from changing when you do your grocery shopping (you can meet women in the grocery store) to trying new hobbies like yoga, to actually moving to a big city.

 

Yes. This is exactly it. I live about an hour outside of D.C. (without traffic), right now I live with my parents in the fairly dead suburbs. I graduate in a month from school and have been looking for full time employment. Right now I'm not in a financial position to move and won't be for a good 6 months or so at the earliest. I plan on living closer to the city (though not IN the city). For right now I'm going to have to make do with where I am though.

[Red Arremer]

I posted a link a while back: http://www.menspsychology.com . I would highly recommend you and the other guys on this thread check it out. Many people on here probably would say that it is too PUA-ish (whatever that means), but don't listen to them. They're the ones who are whining about their relationships and the mistakes they just keep on making.

 

If you really want to learn to get better with women, why is *this* forum where you are getting most of your advice anyway? Posting here just isn't a good use of your time.

I read The Game once, and I sometimes wonder if people that point to it as a good guide for how to get women read the same book I did. Everyone in it just seemed so sad and pathetic and broken.

 

True story.

 

Well except for Juggler, but the book goes on to say that he realized how pathetic the PUA scene was and left it.