carhill Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 I guess it all depends what one considers a LTR. My parameters are exclusive emotional and sexual bonding known as boyfriend and girlfriend for a period of at least a year from the time of the boyfriend/girlfriend 'talk'. I'm 51 and have had four such 'LTR's', including a ten year marriage. Personally, I also examine 'alone time' between LTR's to heal and learn from them, building upon what zengirl commented on regarding how we learn about ourselves during relationships; we also learn about ourselves during the time after they end, processing and owning our part in their success and/or failure and solidifying those perspectives and tools to become a healthier partner in the next one. Rather than ask a woman about her relationship history specifcally, I ask her what she's learned from it about herself. Then I listen. Listening can be under-rated
nikkihush Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 It's the same reason why when I go to hire somebody I hire someone with a strong job history. Usually if they haven't worked much I assume that no other employer found them valuable enough to hire. I would just say I have dated on and off but make it appear that it is by choice that you aren't currently dating nor have ever been married. "Dry spell" may be honest, but unfortunately dating is all about promoting yourself. Just try and always turn negatives to positives and present yourself in a positive light (without major outright lying) - the same you might slightly embellish on a resume! Accentuate the positive!
RP39 Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 It's the same reason why when I go to hire somebody I hire someone with a strong job history. Usually if they haven't worked much I assume that no other employer found them valuable enough to hire. I would just say I have dated on and off but make it appear that it is by choice that you aren't currently dating nor have ever been married. "Dry spell" may be honest, but unfortunately dating is all about promoting yourself. Just try and always turn negatives to positives and present yourself in a positive light (without major outright lying) - the same you might slightly embellish on a resume! Accentuate the positive! Sadly this is how it is. Who would hire someone to be the head of a company who has been unemployed for decades since college? That's what this is like. There's no way to cover up a decades long gap on a resume.
zengirl Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 To most people, if someone has had a lot of exes in their past, it makes them seem more 'marketable' and of value. People generally have more interest and respect for them because it's like 'Wow, you were wanted by so many.' or 'Damn, you sure had it going...' However, personally, I find it a turn off. I once spoke to a guy on a dating site who was only about 32 but had 12 gfs. To him, he said it wasn't much. He even laughed about it. For me, it shows instability, and obviously, he didn't mind going from woman to woman. I just find it a little immature. I have much more respect for someone who didn't have a gf before or only had one or two at most. And I have met men who had only one or two. Too many relationships (I'm not sure 12 at 32 would be "too many" -- a lot depends on the progression, etc) is also a red flag sometimes. As carhill points out: Rather than ask a woman about her relationship history specifcally, I ask her what she's learned from it about herself. Then I listen. Listening can be under-rated This is what I do as well. It's never about the number. But someone with 0 experience would have no answer to these questions. Really, to me, the important thing is how one can reflect on their past relationships and what their patterns have been. I'm not interested in being the "pattern breaker" for better or worse (maybe that's a limiting belief of my own, not sure, but until I see some evidence that it is, I'm keeping it, as I feel it serves me well at present). I'm only interested in a guy with a healthy pattern at the beginning, who comes in with a strong sense of who he is, what he wants in a relationship, what he's learned from past relationships, and how that helps him. A tall order? Sure. But I'm pretty far along in my own learning and narrowing down what I want in a life partner.
Cee Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 Have you read anything about "sexual anorexia"? Patrick Carnes wrote a book about it called "Sexual Anorexia: Overcoming Sexual Self-Hatred" and you may find it helpful. There are even a few treatment centers in the US that address this issue. I'm not suggesting you are pathological in any way. I suggest that recovery is a way to get away from a victim stance and make proactive changes in your life. I've known a lot of people who have gained a lot of solace by entering a recovery community, including myself. Just a thought from a stranger on the internet. Take it or leave it.
GivenUp0083 Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 I was single for 4 years, 2 of those years I did zero dating, the latter 2 I did date but went on a total of maybe 30 dates (16 first dates) over that 2 year span. I was honest with this information to my current gf and she didn't mind at all. I think she realized how great we were for each other and things like that aren't important to her. To the right kind of girl that you should want to be with those little stupid things like dating history won't matter to her. You can make all the little excuses why she cut you off, but in the end is that she's not the right kind of girl for you, plain and simple. It always helped me to realize that nightmare she would have been if she decided to be in a relationship with me, and I'm thankful at that point she decided to walk away.
fortyninethousand322 Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 This is what I do as well. It's never about the number. But someone with 0 experience would have no answer to these questions. Really, to me, the important thing is how one can reflect on their past relationships and what their patterns have been. I'm not interested in being the "pattern breaker" for better or worse (maybe that's a limiting belief of my own, not sure, but until I see some evidence that it is, I'm keeping it, as I feel it serves me well at present). I'm only interested in a guy with a healthy pattern at the beginning, who comes in with a strong sense of who he is, what he wants in a relationship, what he's learned from past relationships, and how that helps him. A tall order? Sure. But I'm pretty far along in my own learning and narrowing down what I want in a life partner. I'm sorry but this sounds like a "if you don't have it at birth, you don't have it. And if you don't have it, tough toenails" type of attitude. Most people should not take this approach. If it works for you then fine good, but on the whole men and women should not feel this way about inexperienced people.
ASG Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 2 years is nothing. Your situation is nothing like being older and having no relationship experience. I don't think there is a right kind of girl since every one rejects me. And every single one WILL reject you with that crappy attitude! Seek help. The reason you haven't been with a woman is because you flaked on them when you managed to get a date and, by your own words, even a few dates after that! It's not OUR fault that you don't feel confident enough in yourself that you can't even go in for a kiss! And it's not that no woman would touch you with a 10inch pole... is that you wouldn't even LET them! So grow a pair a seek professional help, cause you need it!
GivenUp0083 Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) I feel like I'm a good person and I have a lot to offer, and I'd like to find someone with the same. Then that's all that matters, there's no timeframe for when you should meet someone. I'd consider yourself lucky that you didn't marry the wrong person, give her children, divorce you, and take you for half your money and only get to see your kids every other weekend. How much would that suck? I would think saying you've had a "dry spell" would be more realstic than saying you have a lack of relationship experience. Telling girls you are on a dry spell hints that you're a player who is used to get laid all the time but lately you aren't and it makes it sound as if you are just going out with them to "break your dry spell" and that you aren't that serious about a relationship with them. I wouldn't say anything, if she asks, say you've had your experiences like anyone else, but you just haven't found the right person yet. There's no shame in that. So, how does one start going to bars without going with friends and without drinking (I don't drink)? If you genuinely think this is a good place to go to meet people I'm completely open to it. You need to learn to BANTER. Practice and striking up random conversation with people, at the ball game, in a mall, at a music festival, at the park playing pickup soccer or something. Learn to get over your social awkwardness and practice your social skills. If you aren't willing to step outside your comfort zone to do this then you have NO EXCUSE for your problems. I absolutely feel no pity for those who will not help themselves. Nothing worth having is easy in this world. You'll have to work at it if you want to change. Seconded. At 32, I'm not interested in training/teaching someone how to be a good relationship partner. He's got to be an equal going in. The key line here is "equal". You should be looking for someone on your wavelength, someone who "compliments you". If sex is important to you, like anything else, you want someone who compliments you in that department, not someone you have to carry or is far ahead of you. Guys with limited experience dont take what women on here say too seriously most of em here are messed up in the head, theyres a reason most of em go from relationship to relationship Star Gazer for example is a certified loon Every girl is different. Most women can't communicate their points across very effectively. That's not an acceptable answer. If you can't explain and rationalize your thoughts, you lose credibility. Again, most women can't do this. They think differently than men do about relatinships, it's more emotionally based where as men try to make logic of it. It doesn't work that way. Every girl thinks differently. Being divorced is a huge scarlett letter on your dating resume, it's like having a DUI when applying for jobs. Someone shouldn't even be asking about your dating history within the first 3 dates, and if she does, just say "I've had a few girlfriends" and leave it at that. I haven't had too many girlfriends because I'm picky, I won't take some ugo as a significant other to build up my dating credentials just like I won't work at Mcdonald's to build up my work experience. I love this analogy. 2 years is nothing. Your situation is nothing like being older and having no relationship experience. I don't think there is a right kind of girl since every one rejects me. Well I'm 28, and no, I actually had dating and relationship and sexual experiences....because I'm not socially inept. Maybe your problem isn't women having problems, but maybe you guys who claim to "lack experience" need to look in the mirror and do some things to change your life an develop social skills. What you're asking for from women to give you a shot or train you is like being a homeless man and expecting a woman to take you home, bathe you, show you how to clean yourself, and buy you new clean clothes. If you stink, it's YOUR problem, stop pointing the finger at society and women as a group, do something about your smell and get some clean clothes. If that means getting out of your house and learning how to be social with people then do it. If you want change then it starts with yourself. Otherwise you will become and continue to be bitter, lonely, old men. Edited April 25, 2011 by GivenUp0083
ASG Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 I don't know what her anatomy looks like becuase I've never had sex and it's plain that I won't be able to satisfy anyone becuase I don't know if he or she goes on top let alone how to do it. You and the rest have drawn the line for me. Again, that's NO excuse! If yo don't know WHAT IT LOOKS like, you can go online and look it up! Google is your friend. Also, porn! Surely you've seen porn? They tend to be quite graphic! And if movies aren't really your thing, on youporn there's a whole section called "Educational", with some how to vids. I wouldn't put muh faith in them working, but at least they let you know what's what and what's where and what to do when yo get there! About going on top... whatever!! It doesn't matter! You just need to *DO* something. Go on top, then have her go on top! Change it up! Maybe not all on your first go, but keep trying and you'll find what works for YOU and for your partner. CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE!
Skump Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 Yeah, any idiot who suggest "screw your morals" is someone one should not listen to. In the final analysis, your moral obligations are nothing more than an invention of your imagination. Did an "ought" ever come up and slap you on the ass? Ever see an "duty" under a microscope? No? That's because they don't exist. There are only actions and their consequences in the REAL world. So, if a moral system's consequences aren't working out, you change the system. Unless you want to be roadkill on the highway of evolution, anyway. Besides, most "take the high road" rhetoric is an excuse to wimp out. There are plenty of 39 year olds who are getting it on, and the OP could be one of them.
GivenUp0083 Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 The crappy attitude came from constant rejections without any opportunities to get to know me. I never flaked on them. They turned me down either before the date or after the date. I never turned them down. I haven't even gotten to the kissing phase of a dating. I don't have a pair and I doubt I ever will. What will seeking help do? I can be 43 instead of 39 and still get rejected for having no relationship or sexual experience. No amount of help can change that. This whole damn thing is hopeless. 39 is way past the point of no return. Dating used to give me anxiety attacks. I sought help, made about 8 calls to therapists who didn't have room in their schedule for me but encouraged me to keep trying or offered contacts of other therapists they knew. I got lucky and the first one I met happened to be a great fit for me and after only 3 sessions I felt a million times better, and over time I overcame my anxiety and it put me in a position to be a great catch for the girl I'm with now. I would never have landed the girl I'm with today if I had chosen not to see a therapist.
veggirl Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 RP! Jeepers creepers!! Have you been in counseling for your issues? Do you look for women with similar hang ups? Where do you find the dates that you DO go on? I get why you're pissed at the world and everything, but how is that going to help the situation?! Oh yeah, you've "given up"....except obviously you haven't because you wouldn't be here if you had. You wouldn't go on one single date ever if you had.
ASG Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 I already am a bitter, lonely, old man. My youth is gone. How about you quit complimenting yourself? I'm 11 years past where you are and I don't need to take advice from you. According to you I smell and wear dirty clothes. More false crap. I f***ing give up. The therapy helps with the bitterness. Being bitter isn't healthy. For you or those around you. Or us here in this board, having to read your moans. Ok, we get it! Now do something about it! *I* wouldn't go out with you. But as you've probably read on this board, and on this thread, some women value lack of experience. But if you do HELP YOURSELF, by watching porn in this instance, then at least you'll know "where to stick your thingy". Have you tried online dating?
fishtaco Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 Looks like I'm late to the party, this thread took off. Well, I was out busy playing the social game. Unfortunately I bombed out this weekend, but hey, that's life. I can't expect something to happen right away. It's only been three weeks since the woman I was seriously dating decided not to see me anymore, and I was sick for one of the weeks. I can't expect magic to happen with just two weeks of investing time to it. To be fair though, she did say "relationships" not just "dating". So the OP would have to have "practice relationships" not "practice dating girls". All things being even I go with lying. Remember, it's not a lie if other people believe it to be true. And so how is he supposed to get into a relationship when many women will judge him this way? How can ANYONE get into a relationship without dating first? It's a catch 22. So where do you start? Practice girls. Plus, practice girls build confidence. Because the most straight forward way to build confidence in dating is from success in dating. Both of you, and me, have been practice guys for some women in the past. It's not that big of a deal. It happens. A lot of women use online dating as a ego boost for example. Same **** different stink. When in Rome, do what the Romans do. You are wrong. Of course, there are people who do play games, and lose as well. So it's all moot. I may be wrong, but my track record proves I'm less wrong that you are. Even if you don't play games, sometimes you lose. I don't get what you're trying to say. If you don't play games then you'll have 100% success ratio? Sometimes, you'll run into women that you like that won't like you back. Games or no games. Plus the game I'm talking about isn't just PUA, if you want to incorporate that, fine. But it's about doing what's practical, and what makes sense, in order to improve your chances. At the very basics, self improvement, understand the dynamics of dating, and knowing what to do in situations, either because you read it in some PUA stuff or you learned by past experience, anything. Learning how to banter like GivenUpHope0083 said is part of the game. And it's actually quite important. Banter is a skill I use every single time. I still have a lot of room for improvement though. Complaining that women that don't want to "train" inexperienced men is wrong. Crying about "why is the world this way" is wrong. The world IS this way. So you're going to change the world? That's quite a tall order. The only thing you can do, is to either stick to your ways and hope to get lucky, or you change yourself to match the world and disconnect your dependency on luck alone. And LS is not a good indication of what's out there. This slice of internet population tend to be "thinkers" when it comes to dating. Hence we are here trying to talk about relationship. In the real world, people are much much less concerned with doing the right thing.
GivenUp0083 Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) I already am a bitter, lonely, old man. My youth is gone. How about you quit complimenting yourself? I'm 11 years past where you are and I don't need to take advice from you. According to you I smell and wear dirty clothes. More false crap. I f***ing give up. Go cry then in your hole. Why bitch and moan about your problems and shoot down the people who HAVE been in your shoes to some extent and have climbed out of it? I'm not complimenting myself, I'm trying to empathize and show you that a lot of people have felt hopeless besides you, and they've also done things to change in order to get where they want to be in life....but you are hopeless because you're just plain stupid. There's no place in the world for people like you, turning on those who try to help. I only used myself as an exmaple to break your stupid generalizations of "all women this, all women that". It's them, not you, right? WRONG. You're not happy with your life? Only you can do something to change it, get off your lazy ass and look in the mirror, stop complaining that the world doesn't change for YOU. You're not 11 years past me because you've wasted more of your life with your unhappiness, if anything you're 11 years behind. I know people like you all too well, you're helpless becasue you can't do anything to help yourself. You have problems so far beyond just not getting a date, being in a relationship should be the LEAST of your worries with the messed up **** you got goin on. I take back everything I said to try and help you see things in a different light because you sir, truly are blind. Learning how to banter like GivenUpHope0083 said is part of the game. My handle refers to "Given Up", meaning I didn't give up hope, what I GAVE UP is the generalizing, the self-fullfilling prophecies, the complaining, the allowing of other people to control my happiness. I'm done trying to make logic of things that don't make sense, instead I live for my happiness, I do what I think is morally right and what makes me a better person. It made all the difference in my life. Edited April 25, 2011 by GivenUp0083
fortyninethousand322 Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 [quote=GivenUp0083;3364631You need to learn to BANTER. Practice and striking up random conversation with people, at the ball game, in a mall, at a music festival, at the park playing pickup soccer or something. Learn to get over your social awkwardness and practice your social skills. If you aren't willing to step outside your comfort zone to do this then you have NO EXCUSE for your problems. I absolutely feel no pity for those who will not help themselves. Nothing worth having is easy in this world. You'll have to work at it if you want to change First of all, I'm not completely socially awkward. I can talk to people very easily. I work retail, this is an essential job skill. My only hangup is talking to women who I am interested in dating. I have a tendency to think too much. This is a problem, I need to learn how to turn off my brain in certain ways and just sort of react. This I will work on. Secondly, I'm not looking for pity, I joined this site so that maybe I could figure out some things that might help me. Some things (like my inexperience) are too embarrassing for me to talk to my friends about. I have already taken much of the advice that I have been given on here and I will continue to do so.
Ross MwcFan Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 I'll watch the porn and read the education stuff, but even if I know it all, it's not experience. Is that enough for any of you? How come you've never looked at porn before?
Ross MwcFan Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 I'll get caught with my luck. What do you mean? Who will catch you?
ASG Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 It'll be the one day someone comes over. why aren't you watchin porn NOW? Instead of moaning about being too ignorant of female parts! Open a new tab, write www dot youporn dot com and explore! Don't wait for "a day"! Do it NOW!
Ross MwcFan Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 It'll be the one day someone comes over. I still don't quite understand. Can't you get rid of the web page when someone knocks on your door? Do people just waltz right into your house without knocking? Can't you put the computer in your bedroom?
Ross MwcFan Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 No offense, but aparrantley you're 39, you've never looked at porn before, and the reason you give for why you haven't is a very vague one about being caught. Something doesn't seem quite right here.
ASG Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 Do you know why your advice is meaningless? If I followed it to the letter you'd still want nothing to do with me. Right... So you really don't want to do anything about it. That's fine. But STOP ****ING COMPLAINING! Don't go watching porn for my benefit. I couldn't care less.
zengirl Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 I'm sorry but this sounds like a "if you don't have it at birth, you don't have it. And if you don't have it, tough toenails" type of attitude. Most people should not take this approach. If it works for you then fine good, but on the whole men and women should not feel this way about inexperienced people. How could anyone have relationship experience AT BIRTH? The way I look at it, I'm simply looking for someone with experiences that mesh with mine. Someone who'd struggled with dating so much for at least a DECADE that they had never had a significant LTR and/or someone who's chosen to put other goals first and/or play around so that they've never had a significant LTR in that time would not be compatible, experience-wise or values-wise (or potentially both) with me. We don't mesh. You have, from tigressA, seen that not all gals think this way, and certainly I'd never claim no woman should date a guy just because I wouldn't (That's pretty silly). I think whether or not you take that approach depends on how it works for you. For me, I guess I'm one who matured quickly. I graduated high school at 16, college at 20, and every part of my life has been about progress. I'm also someone who values relationships. I will make time for them, compromise for them, heck even move for them if it gives me the potential for better relationships (and also makes me happier overall---not as a sacrifice to my general happiness). So, of course, I've been in quite a few relationships and have been in relationships more often than out of them over the past decade (even counting almost 2 years when I didn't date because I was mourning my HS sweetheart) because to me forming attachments to other people is normal, natural, and easy. If it is not a priority for someone or not easy for someone (and I know many men who are like me and have similar relationship experiences, so this is not a great gender divide), he would have a very different viewpoint than I and not be terribly compatible with me or what I'm looking for.
Ross MwcFan Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 Porn objectifes women. Why not just say that in the first place? Anyway, big deal. Looking at a pussy isn't going to cause harm to anyone, jeez.
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