Judged due to minimum dating history.

[ASG]

90% of the time above average. I may not be the brightest bulb but I can smell something.

 

No, 90% of the below average are done! But, as I have been known to go back on bad sex, I can't say that 100% of bad first time sex has no repeat performanced.

 

You really only read what you want to read.

[ASG]

rational decision? ROFLMAO. you're bringer than zengirl and star gazer but that aint saying much.

 

Can you READ??? It says it is NOT a rational decision and therefore, completely up to me! NOTTTT being the operative word.

[ASG]

Haha if a girl judged me negatively because I had never been married before, yet she had I would laugh at her hysterically.

 

Being divorced is a huge scarlett letter on your dating resume, it's like having a DUI when applying for jobs. Someone shouldn't even be asking about your dating history within the first 3 dates, and if she does, just say "I've had a few girlfriends" and leave it at that. I haven't had too many girlfriends because I'm picky, I won't take some ugo as a significant other to build up my dating credentials just like I won't work at Mcdonald's to build up my work experience.

 

See? It's all about opinions.

 

I don't see how me not wanting to date someone who isn't somewhat experienced sexually is different from The Dude not wanting to date someone who's divorced (which he doesn't state, but is implied by his statement).

 

Again, there's something for everyone.

 

[zengirl]

Re: Sexual experience

 

Interesting that there are several different discussions here, one being about sexual experience rather than relationship experience. I've no interest in dating someone who slept around a lot, and thus in order to have good sexual experience, he'd have to have had at least one serious relationship. . . to me, the two are positively linked. In fact, the guys who've had a lot of sex and no relationships are the guys I'd actually look out for (Anyone who couldn't get women for any reason or went to their mid-20s without much sex probably wouldn't be someone who could catch my attention in the first place, I imagine; hence, why they never had any experience).

 

You wait a few weeks and throw him out if he doesn't have the right experience. serious? proof positive a man shouldn't tell. A man would have to be a chump to reveal his dating history.

 

I've never 'tossed a man out' for it, except those who have a history of being Players (and that's within a few dates). And a man who wasn't open with his dating history would raise HUGE red flags for me and also not get through my filters. It's just natural to discuss those things as we start to progress and consider whether or not we'd work in a relationship.

 

As far as a man who had trouble getting dates . . . I don't know. My last exBF had major social anxiety, and yet he'd still had a decent amount of dates, some sex out of relationships (but never been a 'player' perse, as he was totally honest with these women, and they wanted the same thing -- casual sex -- from him, and he'd long outgrown that before meeting me), and several long-term relationships by the time he was 30. And he was certainly attractive to me, but he -- like most people -- is in that middle ground where some people see it and some people don't. He's a great guy, but if he could have LTRs with a broken family history and somewhat severe social anxiety, I don't think it's really about 'game' (he had none) so much as it's about being able to form positive relationships with other human beings. Which is a skill that I absolutely put to a premium. I've dated plenty of nerdy, shy guys, and they all still had relationships behind them.

 

I don't really believe that a halfway decent guy cannot have a relationship if he wants one. If he hasn't had one by a certain time, it'd have to be for a reason. And those reasons are generally unattractive to me.

 

I'm sorry if that makes anyone who has trouble dating feel badly, but I don't see the point in glossing over it to assuage egos.

 

The key word to this thread is "judged". Otherwise, nothing in this thread is particularly controversial.

 

Why is judged such a controversial word? People judge all the time and then say, "I'm not judging." Every opinion a person forms is a judgment. Doesn't mean it's some kind of horrible scorn---but every assessment people make about anything is a judgment, as is every decision, every assertion, etc.

 

(I agree with you, and I agree with you that it IS controversial. Just something I've never understood. Why does pretending you're not judging someone make them feel better when it's obvious you are, as any time a person makes any assessment whatsoever, it is judgment, and we all must do that to function in the world.)

Edited April 25, 2011 by zengirl

[Thedude22]

See? It's all about opinions.

 

I don't see how me not wanting to date someone who isn't somewhat experienced sexually is different from The Dude not wanting to date someone who's divorced (which he doesn't state, but is implied by his statement).

 

Again, there's something for everyone.

 

 

 

Well yeah nobody wants to date a spaz in bed...but honestly ****ing really isn't that hard, I was decent at it like the second time I did it so the learning curb is pretty short.

[fortyninethousand322]

Re: Sexual experience

 

Interesting that there are several different discussions here, one being about sexual experience rather than relationship experience. I've no interest in dating someone who slept around a lot, and thus in order to have good sexual experience, he'd have to have had at least one serious relationship. . . to me, the two are positively linked. In fact, the guys who've had a lot of sex and no relationships are the guys I'd actually look out for (Anyone who couldn't get women for any reason or went to their mid-20s without much sex probably wouldn't be someone who could catch my attention in the first place, I imagine; hence, why they never had any experience).

 

I've never 'tossed a man out' for it, except those who have a history of being Players (and that's within a few dates). And a man who wasn't open with his dating history would raise HUGE red flags for me and also not get through my filters. It's just natural to discuss those things as we start to progress and consider whether or not we'd work in a relationship.

 

As far as a man who had trouble getting dates . . . I don't know. My last exBF had major social anxiety, and yet he'd still had a decent amount of dates, some sex out of relationships (but never been a 'player' perse, as he was totally honest with these women, and they wanted the same thing -- casual sex -- from him, and he'd long outgrown that before meeting me), and several long-term relationships by the time he was 30. And he was certainly attractive to me, but he -- like most people -- is in that middle ground where some people see it and some people don't. He's a great guy, but if he could have LTRs with a broken family history and somewhat severe social anxiety, I don't think it's really about 'game' (he had none) so much as it's about being able to form positive relationships with other human beings. Which is a skill that I absolutely put to a premium.

 

I'm sorry if that makes anyone who has trouble dating feel badly, but I don't see the point in glossing over it to assuage egos.

 

I would completely agree with you on pretty much everything you write here. I do think that there is something wrong with me. Every single one of my friends (all guys more or less as dateable as me) has at least kissed a girl in their lives, and yet here I am as inexperienced as a 7th grader.

 

I think I reacted as negatively as I did because I have actually been pretty bummed out recently about graduating having never really experienced a proper relationship or anything related to one. So under normal circumstances I probably would just shrug threads like these off and say "eh...whatever".

 

I don't think I have social anxiety or anything like that. I work a retail job, I interact with several strangers on a regular basis (old people, young people, men, women, etc.) I have a decent amount of friends, I interact with classmates at school, etc. I just have a real big hangup when it comes to women who I'm attracted to and who might be attracted to me. I don't even want to think about how many missed opportunities I've had over the last 5-7 years because I was too dense to realize a girl was into me, or too stupid to go over and talk to some girl who was checking me out, or made up some excuse as to why I shouldn't call some girl (thinking she wasn't interested). As those opportunities have dried up the past year and half or two years or so you get to wondering whether those opportunities exist anymore. And then I read threads like this.

 

So I hear what you're saying, and it makes sense, it just validates all of my own self doubts. Maybe it's just a confidence thing. Clearly mine is not where it needs to be.

[Mangomonkey]

After browsing this thread a bit. I can honestly say this thread is depressing. Only because of the female responders toward experience and what not. I remember on earlier threads where people would bash me because i wouldnt look at the Heart and soul of a instead considering them anything more then friendship. But its okay to look for little superficial things on your behalf. This is coming from a guy who have had women throw themselves at. With my experience or non experience. My sympathy goes out to those who have an internal ego beating because of this. But life is too full of problems. And a woman aint gonna be one of them. At least for me. If i woman didn't like me for my experience or lack of experience. I would tell her to f**k off. Cause i got better things to do.

 

For the guys. This is advice given to me by multiple women. Stop worrying about that relationship s**t and just f**k em. Your be alot happier. Cause eventually you will find something. So might as well have fun along the way.

[Skump]

OP, bro, open your damn eyes. Have you not noticed that 90%+ of men go through a phase of f*cking and chucking girls? As you're now observing, this process is quite necessary for men. Oh, sure, women will bitch about this behavior - but almost all manifestly demand the kind of prowess acquired through it. Fact is, say what they may, most will end up marrying men who used other women for sex.

 

If this lifestyle conflicts with your moral system: too goddamn bad. Morality must conform to the dictates of reality.

 

Fortunately, it's never, ever too late to be an assh*le. Grab a box of trojans, find a bar, make an account on adult friend finder, whatever, and get at it. Make it your mission in every new relationship to progress to sex ASAP, and lie, lie, lie, lie, lie about everything but your dick size (no one's going to be swallowing any tall tales about that if you'll pardon my double entendre) to get it. The first few encounters may be total f*cking blunders but just keep at it. If any girl develops an undesired attachment then use her for as long as possible and then dump and ZCP her once she starts pressing you on commitment. Trust me, she's used to it.

 

In a year or less you'll be riding tall in the saddle and when Ms. Right finally comes along you'll be well prepared to ride her.

[Ross MwcFan]

Well I think saying that she "slutted herself out" is a little harsh. I don't really care how many partners (within reason) a person has had but more the quality of partners, I don't want to date someone who has a habit of picking up strangers in bars just to sleep with them, our life values wouldn't match up. I just don't want to feel like if I don't get to dating soon that I might as well give up on ever having a normal relationship. I feel like I'm a good person and I have a lot to offer, and I'd like to find someone with the same. I don't think most people realize how much pressure there is being an inexperienced guy in his 20s when everyone expects you to either be dating or out having sex with as many people as possible. The idea that I have only 3 years before people will no longer want to "train" me is severely disheartening. I already feel bad enough as it is having never kissed a girl at 23, I don't need to feel any worse.

 

After you reach 26 you'll still be able to go out with younger girls who don't mind training/are inexperienced/don't have that much experience themselves.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Ross MwcFan

[Ross MwcFan]

While the sentiment behind it is real, the word "training" was a bit tongue-in-cheek. My point is that rarely does someone know how to be a good partner in their first relationship, and I've had several very serious relationships (lived together with one, talked about potential marriage with a few others, was engaged to my HS sweetheart) so I'm not interested in that disparity. There are things you just "learn" by having serious relationships and that I find lacking in those who've never had them. They don't get it, and I don't want to be the one who explains it at this stage in the game.

 

 

 

I put work into relationships, but I wouldn't buy a fixer-upper car either. I'd rather have it in working order when I buy it. This is just a metaphor; I don't think people are cars, obviously. I've never met a guy who magically just HAD great relationship skills. They're learned, through having relationships. At 26, my dating range is about 24-33.

 

And the truth is. . . Any guy in that range who's never had a serious relationship hasn't had one because he was deficient in that area, for the most part. Either he's chosen to play around (unattractive) or he's had trouble relating to women and attracting them (unattractive) or he's had trouble establishing a long-lasting connection (unattractive) or he didn't value relationships enough to make time for them in his life (unattractive). I'm sure there is a weird exception out there (like someone who was in a coma for 6 years or something) but I don't cater to exceptions when forming general value judgments.

 

I don't think people who know me would call me selfish. I'm very willing to help people, be kind, and I've always been told I'm a good partner. I've never had complaints on that level, and I've had mostly healthy, mature relationships. I'm certainly not perfect, but I don't think it's "selfish" to express that you want someone with relationship skills. And people who haven't had relationships don't have relationship skills.

 

I've never been told (in life) I wasn't relationship material. In fact, I tend to be the girl who guys who've played around for ages somehow develop a crush on and want to settle down with. I won't date those guys. They've demonstrated their dating priorities by playing around; I'm not interested in being the game-changer. I've also, obviously, been in relationships with men who found me to be "relationship material" (and even some who saw me as marriage material). But, obviously, that doesn't mean I'd be right for everyone or even most people --- nobody is.

 

 

 

Hm. . . Perhaps the more inexperienced guys --- if they're sincere --- should date women who've also struggled with dating. Or they'll find more experienced gals who don't have the same views I have. Mine are formed mostly by being put on a pedestal by supposedly former Players or guys who put off romance (for medical school, etc) who are in my social circle. Those are the worst kind of "Never had a relationship" though, no, I could not see myself attracted to someone who'd had so much social trouble they'd never had a lasting romantic relationship and were already in their mid-20s or older. I don't think that person and I would be socially compatible.

 

I can totally see where you're coming from zengirl. I think it's understandable.

 

I wonder what the actual things are that inexperienced guys need explaining to them/need to learn though? I'm really curious now. What is it that I don't know which everyone else knows?

 

It'd be good if there was a website that could teach us/explain that stuff.

[zengirl]

I can totally see where you're coming from zengirl. I think it's understandable.

 

I wonder what the actual things are that inexperienced guys need explaining to them/need to learn though? I'm really curious now. What is it that I don't know which everyone else knows?

 

It'd be good if there was a website that could teach us/explain that stuff.

 

I don't think you could ever learn it from a website or a book. What you learn in relationships is:

 

(a) to know yourself better and know particularly your 'relationship self' -- how you relate to people on that intimate, emotional level -- better and understand what issues you may have and need to resolve (never met someone who didn't have something, though most people's are relatively minor; however, I'd suggest that if someone had so much trouble dating they never had a relationship before 25, their issues are likely more significant)

 

(b) to learn to relate to someone in a relationship, be intimate, and connect emotionally on that level, to learn to be open enough to love someone and be loved

 

© relationship communication. On this, you can learn the principles without a relationship, but I don't think you can really learn it via principles; it takes practice

 

(d) dealing with insecurities in a relationship. A huge issue in everyone's first relationship, usually. Now, some people get scarred and worse over time, but most people learn to process their insecurities and move along.

 

. . . and so many other intangible interpersonal skills. The same way you cannot learn to drive from a book (not really), you cannot learn relationship skills from reading about them IMO.

 

This doesn't even count sexual issues, really. I've had men chase me who were sexually experienced but emotionally not, though I've never had sex with them; I've no idea what it's like to interact at all romantically with a guy who's sexually inexperienced to the degree it'd be an issue. It's not like you have to bang dozens of girls to figure out how that stuff works, and, frankly, I imagine relationship sex is better for building those skills than a string of ONS.

[Ross MwcFan]

Yes.

And you can "not tell" all you want, but if you've never had a girlfriend or been with a woman it will SHOW! Might not be apparent immediately, but it will.

 

A few years ago I was dating a gy, a bit younger, very cute. I didn't ask any questions, we weren't serious (but I thought maybe we could be), but one day things got heated up and... He had no idea what he was doing. His sexual inexperience showed and at the time I wasn't in a place to want to "train" anyone, sexually or otherwise.

So that was the end of our dating.

 

I've never had a relationship with someone who had never had one before, so I don't have any anecdotes to share about me discovering they were inexperienced, but even if you do fake it well, your gf WILL eventually know the truth. She may care or she may not, but she will know.

 

Can you give an idea of how he didn't know what he was doing?

 

I thought it'd be pretty obvious how to make out and have sex, even if you haven't done it before.

[Ross MwcFan]

Oh, don't get me wrong. There's re-training, and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is pointers telling them WHAT TO DO!

 

With a new person there always has to be some nudging. Not everyone likes the same things, so you need to let your new partner know how you like things done.

 

BUT. I draw the line at the anatomy lesson. If I have to tell them what's what and what to do with it, then clearly they need to find someone else, cause I'm not gonna do it.

 

Lol, how can it be so hard to tell them what to do?

[RP39]

OP, bro, open your damn eyes. Have you not noticed that 90%+ of men go through a phase of f*cking and chucking girls? As you're now observing, this process is quite necessary for men. Oh, sure, women will bitch about this behavior - but almost all manifestly demand the kind of prowess acquired through it. Fact is, say what they may, most will end up marrying men who used other women for sex.

 

If this lifestyle conflicts with your moral system: too goddamn bad. Morality must conform to the dictates of reality.

It is too late at 39. I missed my chance are there's nothing I can do about it now and treating girls like garbage is not an option. I HATE any guy who's ever ever treated a girl like that. I would never f*ck and chuck a girl for any reason whatsoever. Only the lowest slime would even think of doing that.

[irc333]

It is too late at 39. I missed my chance are there's nothing I can do about it now and treating girls like garbage is not an option. I HATE any guy who's ever ever treated a girl like that. I would never f*ck and chuck a girl for any reason whatsoever. Only the lowest slime would even think of doing that.

 

Yeah, any idiot who suggest "screw your morals" is someone one should not listen to.

[RP39]

I don't think you could ever learn it from a website or a book. What you learn in relationships is:

 

(a) to know yourself better and know particularly your 'relationship self' -- how you relate to people on that intimate, emotional level -- better and understand what issues you may have and need to resolve (never met someone who didn't have something, though most people's are relatively minor; however, I'd suggest that if someone had so much trouble dating they never had a relationship before 25, their issues are likely more significant)

 

(b) to learn to relate to someone in a relationship, be intimate, and connect emotionally on that level, to learn to be open enough to love someone and be loved

 

© relationship communication. On this, you can learn the principles without a relationship, but I don't think you can really learn it via principles; it takes practice

 

(d) dealing with insecurities in a relationship. A huge issue in everyone's first relationship, usually. Now, some people get scarred and worse over time, but most people learn to process their insecurities and move along.

 

. . . and so many other intangible interpersonal skills. The same way you cannot learn to drive from a book (not really), you cannot learn relationship skills from reading about them IMO.

 

This doesn't even count sexual issues, really. I've had men chase me who were sexually experienced but emotionally not, though I've never had sex with them; I've no idea what it's like to interact at all romantically with a guy who's sexually inexperienced to the degree it'd be an issue. It's not like you have to bang dozens of girls to figure out how that stuff works, and, frankly, I imagine relationship sex is better for building those skills than a string of ONS.

Reading the posts in this thread have put me in tears. I can wish you were all exceptions, but I know full well that's not the case. In fact 80% of you would be even harsher than what I see here. It solidifies what I already knew that 39 without any relationship experience is at least 15 years past the point of no return. I desperately want to find somebody, but realistically I'm more likely to win the lottery.

 

I don't have relationship experience and even if I got to the sex I don't know what she looks like under there. It would take me a quite a few times to figure it out and nobody is that patient. There's no way to get this experience if nobody will give me a chance. Many of you are right that inexperience can't be hidden. I may as well tell her on the first date, not that I'd have to becuase most of you are amazing mind readers.

 

Please don't tell me the standard boilerplate, I'd never date someone like you, but you know somebody would. When they all say that, there is no somebodies. After the number of rejections I've suffered often before I even have the date, I can't take it anymore. I don't see a way out.

[irc333]

I don't have relationship experience and even if I got to the sex I don't know what she looks like under there. It would take me a quite a few times to figure it out and nobody is that patient. There's no way to get this experience if nobody will give me a chance. Many of you are right that inexperience can't be hidden. I may as well tell her on the first date, not that I'd have to becuase most of you are amazing mind readers.

 

 

What's scarier even is that you won't hear sympathy from these women either.

 

I did see a post from one woman that suggested there was some kind of light at the end of the tunnel. lol

 

But, you won't hear, "It'll be okay, there's someone for everyone", I think if they did say that, It'd be tonque in cheek.

[RP39]

What's scarier even is that you won't hear sympathy from these women either.

 

I did see a post from one woman that suggested there was some kind of light at the end of the tunnel. lol

 

But, you won't hear, "It'll be okay, there's someone for everyone", I think if they did say that, It'd be tonque in cheek.

Not only is there's no sympathy but it's almost anger I see from some of them towards those past the point of no return. There isn't someone for everyone. There might be for you but not for me. 39 without a relationship is too big a hole to dig out of.

[RP39]

For me it wouldn’t be about dating experience, but relationship experience. (I don’t have a lot of dating experience, but I have relationship experience.) I would be suspicious of someone who dates a lot but never has relationships.

 

My fear with someone my age (32) who has little relationship experience wouldn’t have to do with thinking they need “training,” but that they’re “un-trainable,” for lack of a better term, when it comes to relationships. I wouldn’t discount them entirely, but I’d be apprehensive.

 

There are people (not saying you OP) who have been unable to create or maintain meaningful long-term relationships because they suck at them, they don’t have the qualities/abilities necessary to connect with another person emotionally, and no amount of experience will change this. In these cases, a person who’s had failed relationship is better than someone who is unable to create them.

We'll never learn if none of you give us a chance. I'm 39 without relationship experience so I'm even lower down. The only experience I have is getting rejected early on over and over.

[RP39]

Guys I'd never want to date.

Inexperienced men in their 20s are guys you would never want to date. How typical.

 

What about an inexperienced guy at 39? Is there are a category below that for me like guys you won't say hello to? Dating is hopeless.

[fortyninethousand322]

Now that I've had a good night's sleep, I think this thread is a lot less disturbing then it was last night. I realize that a certain group of people (maybe the majority maybe the minority) find inexperience to be a vice, and inexperienced guys to be undateable. However, I don't think it's impossible or hopeless for inexperienced guys. I don't believe in impossible. We live in a world where the New Orleans Saints (or the 'ain'ts as many people called them) have won the Super Bowl, where the Butler Bulldogs (who?) have been to back to back national title games and an African American is president of the United States of America. If anyone had told me ten years ago that these things would happen I would have laughed in their face. Yet they did happen, and tomorrow I'm sure some other "impossible" thing will happen.

 

So if some girls don't want to date me due to inexperience, fine, then I'll go find someone who will. It's not impossible, at any age.

[tigressA]

I'm open to dating guys with little to no experience, whether romantic or sexual or both. I dated three virgins (didn't sleep with one who was abstinent-'til-marriage). Granted, they were all in their early 20s (I'm 24). Months ago there was a guy I went out with who, at 28, was the most inexperienced guy I had ever met--our date was his first date ever. I quite liked him, but he turned me down for a second date.

 

There are girls out there who won't mind inexperience, or who will in fact actually prefer it. They are probably harder to find, but they are out there. The inexperienced guys I dated were confident, genuine, down to earth and had healthy attitudes toward women. Had they not told me of their inexperience I would not have known.

[orangelady]

To most people, if someone has had a lot of exes in their past, it makes them seem more 'marketable' and of value.

 

People generally have more interest and respect for them because it's like 'Wow, you were wanted by so many.' or 'Damn, you sure had it going...'

 

However, personally, I find it a turn off. I once spoke to a guy on a dating site who was only about 32 but had 12 gfs. To him, he said it wasn't much. He even laughed about it. For me, it shows instability, and obviously, he didn't mind going from woman to woman. I just find it a little immature. I have much more respect for someone who didn't have a gf before or only had one or two at most. And I have met men who had only one or two.

[carhill]

Reading this thread was like re-living the 1980's and 90's

 

I recall a now LS friend once telling me, upon reading my 'partner count' in one of those infamous LS threads, that I appeared to be 'almost a virgin', with a laugh. Later, she would come to see the positives of that path, perhaps a perspective she had not entertained prior.

 

When I read the repetitive admonishments by VitaminE regarding disclosure, to not disclose relationship history, then matching them up with a comment by tigressA about 'Had they not told me of their inexperience I would not have known', perhaps that is a path worth exploring for such men of limited 'experience'. It was a path which bore fruit for myself all those years ago.

 

Someday, looking from the other side, perhaps those same men will wonder why they assigned so much importance to this. I know I have. It is what it is. Life goes on.

[Ross MwcFan]

12 gf's really isn't that many for a 32 year old.

 

12 LTR's maybe.