zengirl Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 B/C most women do not hang out with guy friends and do mutual ativities together. Most women want to talk to their guy friends abt life and relationships. This causes emotional intimacy with men and men can fall in-love with her based on emotional intimacy (Not so much with women). Untrue. I don't just sit around with my friends and talk and do nothing else. I mean, we do talk sometimes, sure, and I will grab a beer with a friend and catch up or whatever, or grab drinks with a few friends and chat all night. With male and female friends. But not like about my feelings. There are rare instances where I might call/meet up with a VERY good friend and just sort of have an "emotional dump" but I don't use my friends for therapy, generally. We hang out and do stuff together, like trivia or games/sports or go to art or comedy shows or have a few drinks or whatever. I really don't understand this view that all women do is sit around and gab about their feelings. I know no women who sit around and do that regularly. I think perhaps your issues are trying to pick up weird, broken women who need loads of emotional support from near-strangers.
zengirl Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 Well, there is also very little incentive to try to maintain a friendship with someone you just met. Unless I just moved to an area and don't know anybody, I don't see what the impetus would be for me to begin a friendship with someone who I barely know who just turned me down. True. Generally when it happened (proceeded to friendship), I'd assume the folks had a group or activity in common or something. Or I do have a lot of people become 'fast friends' with me and want to include me in things/for me to call them when I'm out because they want to hear about my experiences abroad, and I've had that as well, where someone had some interesting experiences that gave me incentive to just hang out with them and merge social circles.
EasyHeart Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 I'd like to point out that all of my comments in this thread are, of course, purely hypothetical. No woman would ever turn me down for a date. That would just be crazy!!! That might be another reason to not be friends with a woman who turns a guy down. If she turns me down, she must be an idiot. Why would I want to date an idiot?!?!
627 Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 OMG! I guess you're kidding. If not, then you don't have to worry about women wanting to be friends with you. yes it was exagerated a lot I've never had a very long conversation about shoes or George Clooney. With women AND men, I've discussed politics quite frequently. I sometimes talk about cars (love Top Gear), I've had conversations about Lord of the Rings, and I can fix a computer or drink and chat till 5am (not while driving, but neither should guys). I talk about mostly the same things with male friends as female friends -- in general, certainly depends on the friends. It's generally about art, music, politics, local stuff, science, comics, movies, TV shows, video games, books, philosophy, sports, etc. It's silly to think men and women have nothing to talk about. I would be friends with women like you, but so far my experience with(about ... around 6 women) has been nothing except random gossip, if I mention something boyish(in my definition anyway) I get eye rolls...
Yamaha Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 I think perhaps your issues are trying to pick up weird, broken women who need loads of emotional support from near-strangers. I hv no issues with weird women and I don't try to pick them up as I am happily dating a nice lady for over 2 years.
zengirl Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 I hv no issues with weird women and I don't try to pick them up as I am happily dating a nice lady for over 2 years. Do you have any female friends or interact with any women besides your GF on a regular basis? What makes you think that women interact solely in the way you described?
Author iris219 Posted April 23, 2011 Author Posted April 23, 2011 I now understand why men don’t want to be friends with women. They have completely inaccurate notions of what being friends with a woman means. I wouldn’t want to be friends with the women you’ve depicted. Do they actually exist? Read zengirl’s last couple of posts. Women do not sit around and talk about their periods or shopping. Normal, healthy women don’t use their friends as emotional landfills. I don’t think friends have to have the exact same interests. You learn new things from friends--that’s the beauty of it. I’d be interested to hear a guy (or girl!) tell me about the car he’s restoring. And I’d hope my friends would want to listen to me talk about literature or organic gardening, even if they’re not into either. Not every conversation has to one that both parties are experts on. I like learning new things from my friends.
627 Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 I don't think as men, we can ever turn off sexual thoughts and desire... it's a curse we bare
threebyfate Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 I don't think as men, we can ever turn off sexual thoughts and desire... it's a curse we bare Yes, it's pretty evident to everyone.
somedude81 Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 The key word there is "strong feelings." Most 1st dates don't start with strong feelings, would be my point. Yeah, I'm not talking about people that I've known for less than a month. These are girls I've met in work, school or at a club meeting. People that I've interacted with on repeated occasions. They are the ones who are most likely to drop the friend line. Depending on how long I waited to let my intentions known, effects how strong the feelings are. Getting back to the main point, there really is no point in sticking around just as a friend after I've been rejected; regardless if I known her six days or six months.
fishtaco Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 Normally I don't hit on friends. But if I were interested in her sexually only, it wouldn't have been a big deal, like some other posters have said. I approached a friend for a FWB relationship. Partially because she was very openly complaining about her lack of sex for years to me - due to demanding school and work schedule, and she's not the type to go out and just hook up. So I offered my services, and she declined. She stayed mature, which made it easy for me to stay mature. Nothing happened, we stayed friends just like before. I've dated a bunch of other women since then, she knows, and she was seeing this guy and finally got sex. We're still friends. Ironically, the guy just wanted sex, but pretended he wanted a relationship. She actually came to me for advice. I told her to start suggesting relationship things, like meeting each other's friends, and see how he responds. Well, he responded by bailing. I have to keep reminding myself, women are not little fragile flowers, despite some of the posts I read here on LS. She was unhappy about his conduct, but, she did get sex, which was badly needed. It's not like OMG! She was used for sex, oh the humanity! Kill all men!!! I tried to be a good friend, and gave her support by telling her it's not her. It's the guy's problem. Which she already knew, but I felt I should enforce it by giving her my thoughts. So I think that's a good example of a mature minded woman. Sure, she may have doubts and insecurities, which I tried to help with. But she didn't flip out and get all bent out of shape as if sex was the ultimate end-all-be-all activity. As crappy as the faked intention part was lame, the sex part was still good. But if I were interested in a woman that I just met, I will stay away from being friends with her. And if I do become friends with her, I'll usually lose interest in her. As with my recent story about "Red". When I met her I did hit on her right away. But due to language issues, communications were crossed, plus we have incompatible dating habits, we ended up becoming friends instead. 5 years later, she is now interested in me, and I have gone way past being interested in her. I'm simply not capable of holding my interest in someone without reciprocation and progress, for 5 years. Anyway. I think some people should be a little bit less angry. But that's just me. Maybe I'm way wrong.
BUENG1 Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 …but who doesn’t want to date you? You must have liked something about her, so why not remain friends? It seems really immature to reject someone’s friendship because you’re not going to get exactly what you want (i.e., sex). If you remain friends, maybe she could introduce you to one of her friends (or vice versa). I can understand not wanting to friends with an ex (though I wouldn’t mind if he wasn't a jerk), but why would you not want to be friends with a woman who you’ve never dated? This makes no sense to me, especially when you’re over the age of 19. My friends are so important to me at this point in my life, so I can’t understand why a guy would say, “If we can’t date, we can’t be friends.” This makes me feel like they only see value in me sexually. I just don’t get it. Are they doing this out of spite? (As in “Ha, Ha, if I can’t sleep with you, you can’t hang out with me.”) If a guy does this, I know I made the correct decision in not wanting to date him. Most close friendships(the valuable ones you are speaking about) arise from shared experience(college, sports, high school etc). People have other friendships(mostly for things to do) that sometimes just happen randomly. Some of these develop into strong friendships and some do not. Since a failed romantic attempt is not a significant shared experience, what makes this friendship thats valuable. There are probably millions of people with the same shared interests that this person has shared interest with. What makes this potential friendship valuable? The answer is nothing. Common interests are not the cornerstones of strong friendships.
Author iris219 Posted April 23, 2011 Author Posted April 23, 2011 Most close friendships(the valuable ones you are speaking about) arise from shared experience(college, sports, high school etc). People have other friendships(mostly for things to do) that sometimes just happen randomly. Some of these develop into strong friendships and some do not. Since a failed romantic attempt is not a significant shared experience, what makes this friendship thats valuable. There are probably millions of people with the same shared interests that this person has shared interest with. What makes this potential friendship valuable? The answer is nothing. Common interests are not the cornerstones of strong friendships. In my experience, shared experiences give the illusion of a connection when there really isn’t one. I’ve found this to be the case for most of the friends I had in high school and college. It was more out of convenience and I eventually realized I didn’t really like or connect with many of these people. I only have a few friends left from school, because these weren’t real friendships. I agree that common interests aren’t what great friendships are built upon. The close friends I have now are ones I feel a connection with based on trust and respect. We just click—kind of like that chemistry thing in relationships. I think it’s similar with friends. And, of course, I genuinely like them (most of the time!). And we now have shared experiences because we went out and created them.
Nexus One Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) You'd expect that if someone is your friend, they'd still value you as a friend even if you said it could never be any more than that. Yes, but that doesn't take away 4 "small" details you're forgetting to mention. 1. First of all there's the lack of reciprocation that could be painful. It could prevent you from moving on with a clear mind in your life. You'd be hanging around someone you have feelings for, but that person does not reciprocate. If you're looking for a partner, then you'd want to move on, instead of sticking around someone who doesn't reciprocate. 2. If you're looking for a girlfriend, then it's weird to still hang around the person you have/had feelings for. (i.e. the person that friendzoned you) So out of respect for your new/current girlfriend you're not going to hang around that friend you have/had feelings for. 3. Hanging around only to see her get involved with other men isn't exactly the most pleasant of situations to indulge yourself in. 4. And last but not least. A romantic interest isn't necessarily and either-or situation. Many partners are both lovers and friends. To cut away the lover part could feel unnatural to someone, because the feelings you have for a person could be multi-faceted. That being said. I wouldn't rule out I'd ever stay friends with someone that would permanently put me in the friendzone, but I'd think it would be unlikely. I also think men and women can be friends. I'm not in the group that says it's absolutely impossible. Many guys think it's impossible, because they can't imagine not becoming sexually interested in a female friend. Personally I don't have that problem I think, I can stand in front of an attractive woman and be merely on friendly terms with her. But if it came to the situation that I get friendzoned by a woman I really like, then I'd probably tell her: "I want to be your lover, not merely your friend. I'd do myself a disservice by staying your friend and seeing you get involved with other men. I now know where I stand and want to move on. Thanks for everything. I wish you the best and hope you become happy." But it would have nothing to with me not being interested in being her friend. There are more factors that come into play in situations like these. Edited April 23, 2011 by Nexus One
Stockalone Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) …but who doesn’t want to date you? Yes. Unless we already were friends, but at least for me, that is highly unlikely to actually happen IRL. You must have liked something about her, so why not remain friends? It seems really immature to reject someone’s friendship because you’re not going to get exactly what you want (i.e., sex). Most likely her looks. As someone else mentioned, it also depends on what kind of dating situation you are talking about. If people hardly know each other, IMO there is really no basis for friendship at this point. I also doubt that friendship would be offered in those cases. For example, let's say I go to the library regularly and I notice an attractive woman that is there most of the times. If I start a conversation with her and ask her out, what do I know about her at this point? If she turns me down, I will not offer friendship and I am pretty sure she won't either. I think friendship doesn't come into play until people already know more about each other. If you remain friends, maybe she could introduce you to one of her friends (or vice versa). Maybe she could, but that should not be the reason to be friends with her, wouldn't you agree? I can understand not wanting to friends with an ex (though I wouldn’t mind if he wasn't a jerk), but why would you not want to be friends with a woman who you’ve never dated? This makes no sense to me, especially when you’re over the age of 19. My friends are so important to me at this point in my life, so I can’t understand why a guy would say, “If we can’t date, we can’t be friends.” This makes me feel like they only see value in me sexually. I guess that conclusion is understandable. However, I don't think it's accurate. I am looking for a relationship, just sex is not what I am looking for, and neither is just friendship. I need to be offered both, otherwise I am not interested. I don't think that means that I only see women as sexual objects, but if that is how women view it, I have to accept that. If a guy does this, I know I made the correct decision in not wanting to date him. Fair enough. Edited April 23, 2011 by Stockalone
rocketboy9 Posted April 23, 2011 Posted April 23, 2011 Frankly I am beginning to think that trying to be friends with a woman after asking her out is a pointless exercise. In my particular case she turned me down for various reasons but now wants to be super chummy with me. Its confusing the hell out of me. She confides in me, tells me her feelings, how good I make her feel, that I am supportive, when is she going to see me and blah, blah. And than tells me she is going over to dinner at a "friends" house. The first thing that pops into my head is that its a guy and she is going to have sex with him. So I need this rattling around in my brain? I doubt it. I dont need this angst and I would rather not know anything.
thatdog Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 general rule of thumb based on personal observation. the MORE time a guy spends with a girl the MORE likely he is to develop stronger romantic feelings for her. the MORE time a girl spends with a guy the LESS likely she is to have ANY romantic feelings for him. this seems true in both friendships and relationships. Because of this if a guy stays friends with a girl after being shot down chances are there will be a huge imbalance in the relationship. When you reallly like someone you want to help them and do things for them etc. So even if you've been friendzoned, if you hang around you often find yourself wanting to help her out with her problems, give her rides places, etc etc. most girls have no problem accepting this and then obviously might want to spend more time with the guy cos he treats her so well and she has shot him down already so she can justify all the things he does for her as just acts of friendship. Eventually the guy starts to resent the girl for not reciprocating what he does for her and the girl gets upset if anyone brings up the fact that their relationship is lopsided or points out the guys are still looking for sex. It's not really anyone's 'fault'. Just a bad decision by both parties. One of my exes was like this. She had something lie 6 or 7 male 'friends'. They always showed up to help her move, would drive her to the shops, parties, etc if she needed it. One of them worked in IT and would never be more than a couple hrs away whenever she had computer problems, another one took her out to dinner every other week and paid everything. She got pretty angry when i pointed out they were all still chasing her even though she had admitted to me that each of them had asked her out and been friendzoned ('he fixes my computer cos I don't know how to and its what friends do' 'he buys me dinner (at french restaurants) cos he knows i'm a student and don't have much money'. She was also really surprised that once we moved in together they suddenly all but vanished from her life.
Dennis Reynolds Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 When I was younger, I probably would have refused. Now that I'm older, I see that it's pretty immature and rather petty. One of my closest female friends is a girl that liked me that I didn't like. I've been friends with her for over a decade now. Life is too short to worry too much about little things like your ego and awkwardness.
dressing up Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 Life is too short to worry too much about little things like your ego and awkwardness. This is really something I have to remember.
Timmeh Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 …but who doesn’t want to date you? You must have liked something about her, so why not remain friends? It seems really immature to reject someone’s friendship because you’re not going to get exactly what you want (i.e., sex). If you remain friends, maybe she could introduce you to one of her friends (or vice versa). I can understand not wanting to friends with an ex (though I wouldn’t mind if he wasn't a jerk), but why would you not want to be friends with a woman who you’ve never dated? This makes no sense to me, especially when you’re over the age of 19. My friends are so important to me at this point in my life, so I can’t understand why a guy would say, “If we can’t date, we can’t be friends.” This makes me feel like they only see value in me sexually. I just don’t get it. Are they doing this out of spite? (As in “Ha, Ha, if I can’t sleep with you, you can’t hang out with me.”) If a guy does this, I know I made the correct decision in not wanting to date him. I know this from experience, us men do not want to be friends with you because it hurts. If the man has liked you for awhile and you don't return his feelings it is a terrible feeling. Everytime he is with you it is like putting fresh salt in a cut that won't heal. It is one of the worst feelings in the world.
runner Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 One of my exes was like this. She had something lie 6 or 7 male 'friends'. They always showed up to help her move, would drive her to the shops, parties, etc if she needed it. One of them worked in IT and would never be more than a couple hrs away whenever she had computer problems, another one took her out to dinner every other week and paid everything. She got pretty angry when i pointed out they were all still chasing her even though she had admitted to me that each of them had asked her out and been friendzoned ('he fixes my computer cos I don't know how to and its what friends do' 'he buys me dinner (at french restaurants) cos he knows i'm a student and don't have much money'. She was also really surprised that once we moved in together they suddenly all but vanished from her life. orbiters. i find this completely emasculating. why would a girl be attracted to a guy like this ? when i do stuff like this for a girl it's either because we're already ****ing or i have absolutly no interest in ****ing her. Life is too short to worry too much about little things like your ego and awkwardness. quote of the day
NoMagicBullet Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 No chance. A woman that has high interest in a guy is not settling for friendship. Absolutely correct. I will not subject myself to the misery of the friendzone if I am strongly attracted to a man. She would get over it and therefore have no interest in him. Personally, I don't think it's hard to get over someone you've never dated or been in a relationship with. Well, maybe you're lucky if you can turn your emotions off and on, but I can't. One of my closest female friends is a girl that liked me that I didn't like. I've been friends with her for over a decade now. That is the key. It's easy to be friends with someone you aren't attracted to. If attraction was minimal on both sides to being with, then it might be possible to be friends. (I have a male friend I met while online dating. He has a long-term GF now, so I doubt he's waiting around for me to change my mind.) But when one of the parties - male or female - is strongly attracted to the other, then being friends is extremely painful for that person.
Ruby Slippers Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 If I were a guy, I wouldn't be friends with any woman I wanted to get with. I would be friends with women I wasn't interested in for whatever reason, particularly because a wing woman can be a big help.
Pfiend101 Posted April 26, 2011 Posted April 26, 2011 I wont be friends with a girl im interested in. I'm not gonna stroke her ego while she goes out and bangs losers.
rocketboy9 Posted April 26, 2011 Posted April 26, 2011 I wont be friends with a girl im interested in. I'm not gonna stroke her ego while she goes out and bangs losers. Been there, done that, got the shirt and am in the process of getting another shirt!
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