danmo Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 OK from what I've read and have come to the conclusion of, is that you wish your wife didn't have a boy friend. However, since she has been seeing him (obviously having sex) for such a long time you will accept it and look the other way. I can understand this because you love her and her having a lover on the side is just part of your life and in fact makes her happy and as a result she will stay married to you (which you want in the worst way) If you think she will stop seeing him because of this little bump in the road I believe you are mistaken. Have you thought about dating other women? How would she feel about that? would it work for both of you? In the end I think if you want to remain married to her and spend the rest of your life with her you will have to accept she will be sleeping with another man from time to time. If not divorce her. It's that simple but of course it's nothing but simple either way.
Linda9999 Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 In the end I think if you want to remain married to her and spend the rest of your life with her you will have to accept she will be sleeping with another man from time to time. If not divorce her. It's that simple Totally agree with this.
John Michael Kane Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 This woman has been sexually putting your life at risk. She's a sick woman who needs to be closely watched. Get her away from you and drop her.
danmo Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 This woman has been sexually putting your life at risk. She's a sick woman who needs to be closely watched. Get her away from you and drop her. Well I think this may be a little over the top. If she was putting his life at risk I would think something would have surfaced by now, it has been a number of years that she has been sleeping with OM. However, it does bring up a point and maybe it has already been asked.. Lovesick - Do you and your wife sleep together (& by that I don't mean sleep) & are you two active with one another? (& by that I don't mean doing it once a month) Is this why she has been with the OM so long? Is she addicted to their love making and not interested in you as a result (in bed)???
Memphis Raines Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Married for over 19 years and dated the same woman for about 10 years prior to marrying her. Long story short, found out she was having an affair about 10 years ago, went to marriage counseling, worked on the things she need from me and paid more attention to her needs. thought everything was fine and we're back on track. Just found out recently that the affair never ended! which just goes to show, they gaslight you into thinking you are the reason they strayed, and when you overcompensate to give them what they want, it turns out all they want is the excitement of f####g someone else. so here you got gaslighted into thinking you need to change, you do, and she still spreads them for another guy. get an attorney and hand her the walking papers.
Memphis Raines Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Well I think this may be a little over the top. If she was putting his life at risk I would think something would have surfaced by now he doesn't have to have symptoms, or she doesn't have to actually be infected with something for a risk to present. and maybe someone can tell me if I'm right, but HIV can lay dormant and no noticeable signs for years. even if she has no disease, she still is playing russian roullette with both their lives. Too bad people like her can't be tried for attempted murder.
John Michael Kane Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Well I think this may be a little over the top. If she was putting his life at risk I would think something would have surfaced by now, it has been a number of years that she has been sleeping with OM. Right so being unfaithful and having loads of sex with someone who only wants to sleep around is a little over the top. STDs can stay hidden in the human body for years, showing no symptoms. Is this why she has been with the OM so long? Is she addicted to their love making and not interested in you as a result (in bed)??? That is completely irrelevant. She's a selfish woman who cares nothing about her marriage, plain and simple. There's no other ulterior motives for her behavior.
danmo Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Look what I am saying is that she has been sleeping with the same OM for 14 years exclusively. If it is true that this guy is a slut then I would think something would have surfaced by now. It is not the same as if she was picking up a new guy every week, then I would agree the probability is there for him to contract something bad. If lovesick has learned to live happily with his wife while not having sex and he does not care then what is the difference to him? He desperately wants to stay with the women he loves. If he makes her give up her boyfriend, she will probably leave him. What does he have if this happens? Everyone is telling him to divorce her but clearly he does not want to do this, it simply is not an option for him if he wants to spend the rest of his life with her. Also, if he is active with his wife in bed and knows she is sleeping with another man at the same time it tells me that her activities are not very upsetting to him? So in this instance he is ok with sharing his wife physically to make her happy but he is only actually concerned about her falling in love with OM and leaving him. As I said earlier if he wants to stay with her he will have to accept the fact that she will be sleeping with the OM. If not she will either leave him so she can or he will have to divorce her. Either option is not acceptable to lovesick, therefore he has no choice but to accept it and hope some day she will move past OM.
Lucky_One Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Sometimes a person CAN love two partners at the same time, deeply and meaningfully. And yes, it IS a terrible thing for all three people. Lovesick22, when I read your posts, I read them the same way that danmo does. You love your wife, she clearly loves you, and you both want to remain married and maintain your family. It appears that your family unit has functioned very well for the last 30 years of your relationship; has the continuity and happiness of that unit been helped along by her EMA? Can that work for you? Knowing that she also will spend time (hopefully very very discretely) with someone else that she loves? To me, marriages are partnerships consisting of so much more than sex. And for some people, the sexual aspect is incredibly important, and for others, not so much. For some people, they are able to turn a blind eye towards discrete friendships that their spouses have, in order to preserve the marital partnership that has worked well for so long. I do feel for you - I believe that the losing of trust would be harder for me to work through than the sexual infidelity. I know many people who could only see your situation in black or white, but I tend to look at life with many shades of gray and with a balance. Having been divorced and remarried, I KNOW how difficult it can be to be divorced. And the effects of divorce last forever, too, no matter how much posters want to say that children are resilient and how they should see a parent being strong. There will be college graduations, there will be weddings, there will be grandchildren, christenings, and the hardest things - family holidays. When you both want to see your children and grandchildren on Christmas morning, and your children have to choose where they spend their time. Well, strength isn't necessarily only shown by banging a fist on the table and saying "B*tch, pack your bags". And being a doormat may a picture of a man cowering and saying "Yes, dear, carry on your affair and I won't open my mouth", but I am also not suggesting that a healthy R have either of those options. There also is no guarantee of finding a healthy, happy, long-term partnership again. If you read the dating forums, even the youngsters there struggle mightily with simple dating, and the times have changed since we (the OP and myself) were dating. So, long story short, you have a lot to consider here. While it sounds all jolly and manly to just type "Give the witch her walking papers," there are many repercussions to that action, when a marriage has been happy for so long prior to D-Day.
2long Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Sometimes a person CAN love two partners at the same time, deeply and meaningfully. And yes, it IS a terrible thing for all three people. This seems like a pair of contradictory statements. One can feel chemistry for more than one person at a time, I suppose, but that ain't love. It appears that your family unit has functioned very well for the last 30 years of your relationship; has the continuity and happiness of that unit been helped along by her EMA? I can't wait 2 hear the answer 2 this question! Can that work for you? Knowing that she also will spend time (hopefully very very discretely) with someone else that she loves? Are you advocating that she should continue 2 lie 2 him and that he should 2rn a blind eye 2 her philandering? I doubt he'll be able 2 maintain this mediocre relationship much longer if the affair continues, now that he knows why it's been mediocre all these years. Having been in a similar si2ation myself, I predict that he will even2ally get 2 a point where he might very well encourage her 2 go be with the OM, if she "truly" loves the 2wit... ...and that she just be careful that the door doesn't smack her on the beautox on her way out. For some people, they are able to turn a blind eye towards discrete friendships that their spouses have, in order to preserve the marital partnership that has worked well for so long. At best, such marriages are dysfunctional. They only appear 2 "work" because the liar is adept at keeping secrets. A better arrangement would be complete honesty and full disclosure of the "friendships" 2 everyone affected. After all, if they're so wonderful, the affairees won't mind if the whole world knows, will they? I do feel for you - I believe that the losing of trust would be harder for me to work through than the sexual infidelity. This is true. So, long story short, you have a lot to consider here. While it sounds all jolly and manly to just type "Give the witch her walking papers," there are many repercussions to that action, when a marriage has been happy for so long prior to D-Day. I highly doubt that the marriage has been "happy for so long prior 2 d-day". Mine wasn't. I couldn't figure out why it wasn't until d-day. D-day was liberating for me, though I couldn't see that at the time. I finally had a big missing piece of the puzzle of my marriage. And I could make informed decisions about my fu2re and my family's fu2re. d-day was 9 1/2 years ago. We're still married after 35 years. -ol' 2long
Lucky_One Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) I think it is very easy to love more than one person at a time. I love more than one sibling, I love more than one parent, I love more than one friend, I only have one son, but feel certain I could love more than one child. Why is inconceivable that we can love more than one romantic partner at the time, when every other type of love is capable of encompassing multiple loved people? Edited May 13, 2011 by Lucky_One inserted words for clarity
2long Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 It isn't so much that one can't have romantic love for more than one partner at one time, it's more that one may not, because marriage (at least most marriages) are a contract 2 be intimate (emotionally and physically) with their married partner and no-one else. I'm not saying that "couples" couldn't agree from the outset 2 include other partners (open marriage), they can. I know of no acquaintances who've succeeded at it, though. -ol' 2long
2long Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) I love more than one sibling, I love more than one parent, I love more than one friend, I only have one son, but feel certain I could love more than one child. Why is inconceivable that we can love more than one romantic partner at the time, when every other type of love is capable of encompassing multiple loved people? What you're talking about here is unconditional love. Yes, it's possible 2 love people unconditionally, but doing so would ac2ally PRECLUDE loving more than on person romantically, and loving unconditionally certainly does not dovetail with lying or being secretive. There are so many ways we use the word love, we can become confused. We use "love" for liking ("I love golf"), for romantic attraction, for maternal, paternal, filial, brotherly, sisterly and group forms of love. Most of these "loves" are conditional upon the loved person or object meeting some expectations in the mind of the one "giving" the love. As we contemplate these many different kinds of "love" we begin to see different "levels" of love, different qualities of energy, and different ways of using the will. The first level is "conditional love". 1. CONDITIONAL LOVE Conditional love is like a kind of bargain with the Universe to give you self-love if you "take care of" people. Tends to make others responsible for your needs and happiness. Includes the "Care-taker ", "Good Prostitute", "Reluctant Martyr", "Rescuer ", stances in life. Wants, and to a degree does get, rewards and approval from others. There are secondary gains in this position, though the price paid is being less than one's True Self. Possessive, holds on when the other grows or heals...and then needs another needy partner. Expectations++. "I will love you (=take care of you) if you are good, clever, white, black, richer, poorer, sicker or more well than me, male, female...etc..." "I love you and if you love me you must promise me...." etc. Can easily feel victimized/angry again when the conditions are not met. Can make the one loved in this way feel very resentful ("hostile dependency"). Dependent on the approval of others. "Social Activist Level I" ..."Crusader" ("I will fight for peace, - even if I have to kill or assassinate to get it"). Still angry with personalities and more focused on those than upon issues, therefore oversimplifies. "I will love you if you adopt my point of view, the "right" political persuasion....or do what my parents did - or did not do" Easily falls prey to anger or fear, or feels victimized if frustrated. Can explode with frustration and become "Perpetrator" or "Terrorist"; or feel powerless - "Doormat" or "Victim". This level corresponds in psychosynthesis to the level of the subpersonalities. There is a tendency to "love" only the perceived "victim" in any situation, to identify with the victim, and to hate the perceived "oppressor". Unable to see that the oppressor is also suffering, but in a different way and expressing their suffering differently. Both the victim and the oppressor are giving out a cry for love and for their unmet needs to be met. There is a tendency for one operating at this level to hold others responsible for their happiness (and therefore unhappiness!), and at the same time push love or help away when it has been offered. This often leads to burn-out, or a win-lose situation, in which all are losers. I call this the Bermuda Triangle (see diagram). 2. TOUGH LOVE Tough Love is less dependent upon others for a sense of self-worth and self-esteem. A more skilled Care-giver. Self-love and self-esteem is enough to take more positive action. Recognizes own needs and is willing to take responsibility for getting them met. Can confront caringly. "I love myself enough to love you and tell you the truth"... "I can serve you without manipulations". Can also receive love with openness, does not push it away when it is offered. "Social Activist Level II", Can separate people from their actions, more focused on issues than on personalities. "We are separate but equal" "I give you responsibility for your actions, the way you lead your life, and I take full responsibility for mine". Can negotiate assertively - i.e. firmly, but without putting the other party down . This level corresponds more to the level of the psyche called in psychosynthesis, the personal self. There is more discrimination, will, love and energy. 3. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE It is the exploration of what this might be that we do from now on in this seminar - and in life after the seminar! Its mystery and depth cannot be explained. Yet we all recognise its presence and its magic. It reveals itself through joy, which can even increase in adversity. We can learn to see ourselves as moving towards becoming able to express it ever more fully. We can learn the steps in developing this quality, which is still in the process of evolving or revealing itself. Unconditional love is enlarging the self, and an act of will. It is not a feeling or an emotional reaction. Think of the difference between falling in love, and growing in love through all difficulties and conflicts. Unconditional love is an act of mental and spiritual will, it cannot and does not take place upon the emotional level, which is where the problems first register. Unconditional love is extending oneself in the service of the spiritual growth of oneself and/or another, independently of reward or the behavior of others. To truly love in this way could include:- * To call forth a sense of responsibility, and a capacity to make wise choices. * To point out weaknesses people have, - but very caringly so that the best in the person is drawn forth in response, rather than resistance. * To challenge people to strive and attain, and discover their true selves.. * To help people work on their habits and weaknesses so that they become stronger. To show them how to use their will correctly. * To help people learn to cooperate, and thus to overcome their little egos. * To engage people in working for humanity. * To teach people how to overcome their prejudices, resentments, separative tendencies, vanities, illusions, and other blocks to their own joy. To truly love in this way does not mean: * To surrender to weakness. * To accept things that are harmful. * To encourage weakness or irresponsibility. * To accept dirt or ugliness in thought, feeling or action. * To exploit or use people. * To put people into sleep. * To tolerate laziness. Unconditional love causes you to see what has really caused a situation and to see through the outer appearances to the true needs or yourself and others, without criticism of yourself or others . It causes you to see the basic good in yourself and other(s). Unconditionally loving people see their own errors and joyfully self-correct them . -Guy Pettit, "The Forgiveness Program" -ol' 2long Edited May 13, 2011 by 2long
Lucky_One Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I must admit I didn't read the whole quote in your post, but I did skim it. I don't believe in unconditional love, unless it is for my son. He could commit murder, slap me, steal my cat and run away from home, and I will stand beside him and love him (although I might not make excuses for him or bail him out of his own consequences). But I certainly would not accept that behavior from my siblings, my friends, my husband, or even my parents; I love those people with conditions that they treat me respectfully and fairly, that they love me to their own degree, that we have reciprocal giving and taking in our relationships. Loving unconditionally (in my life) very likely would not happen with a romantic partner. There are definite conditions on my love, as I listed above. I actually think that unconditional love in romantic partners (or a misguided belief that one SHOULD love their partner unconditionally) is when people remain in unhealthy relationships, because they tell themselves that love is enough, that love must conquer all, that it is ok to continuously give to someone who does not give back. I do tend to be fairly practical minded, with a definite romantic bent!
ladydesigner Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I must admit I didn't read the whole quote in your post, but I did skim it. I don't believe in unconditional love, unless it is for my son. He could commit murder, slap me, steal my cat and run away from home, and I will stand beside him and love him (although I might not make excuses for him or bail him out of his own consequences). But I certainly would not accept that behavior from my siblings, my friends, my husband, or even my parents; I love those people with conditions that they treat me respectfully and fairly, that they love me to their own degree, that we have reciprocal giving and taking in our relationships. Loving unconditionally (in my life) very likely would not happen with a romantic partner. There are definite conditions on my love, as I listed above. I actually think that unconditional love in romantic partners (or a misguided belief that one SHOULD love their partner unconditionally) is when people remain in unhealthy relationships, because they tell themselves that love is enough, that love must conquer all, that it is ok to continuously give to someone who does not give back. I do tend to be fairly practical minded, with a definite romantic bent! Lucky_One I think this post is brilliant and I totally concur with everything you have said. I am the same in views on unconditional love. Unconditional love in my situation is for my children and definitely conditional for everyone else.
2long Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I must admit I didn't read the whole quote in your post, but I did skim it. Certainly your choice. I love those people with conditions that they treat me respectfully and fairly, that they love me to their own degree, that we have reciprocal giving and taking in our relationships. I don't think of those as conditions, more as having healthy boundaries. In a way, that's also helpful of those you love this way, because it lets them know what your boundaries are, and might help them 2 have healthy boundaries of their own. Loving unconditionally (in my life) very likely would not happen with a romantic partner. There are definite conditions on my love, as I listed above. That's okay. I can love my wife unconditionally, even though she had a long term affair, because I would continue 2 have that love for her whether we stayed married or not. That's not the same thing as romantic love, nor does it say anything about the conditional contract that is our marriage. I actually think that unconditional love in romantic partners (or a misguided belief that one SHOULD love their partner unconditionally) is when people remain in unhealthy relationships, because they tell themselves that love is enough, that love must conquer all, that it is ok to continuously give to someone who does not give back. This is a common misapplication of unconditional love. Dr Willard Halrey, of Marriage Builders, has posted articles about the fallacy of unconditional love. But it's not that it's fallacious, it's more an indication that Harley doesn't understand what unconditional love means, and so his article describes its misapplication, which I would agree is something that married couples should not do. I do tend to be fairly practical minded, with a definite romantic bent! -ol' 2long
linwood Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 It isn't so much that one can't have romantic love for more than one partner at one time, it's more that one may not, because marriage (at least most marriages) are a contract 2 be intimate (emotionally and physically) with their married partner and no-one else. Are you stating that a person can have a conscience control over the oxytocin creation going on in their neural networks simply by telling themselves to? People can indeed control how they react to such chemical reactions but they cannot control the chemical reaction itself. They cannot stop themselves from "loving" who these reactions are set off by. What you're talking about here is unconditional love. Yes, it's possible 2 love people unconditionally, but doing so would ac2ally PRECLUDE loving more than on person romantically, and loving unconditionally certainly does not dovetail with lying or being secretive. "Unconditional love" is a myth. This forum is evidence of the truth of my statement. All love has conditions, always.
2long Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Are you stating that a person can have a conscience control over the oxytocin creation going on in their neural networks simply by telling themselves to? People can indeed control how they react to such chemical reactions but they cannot control the chemical reaction itself. They cannot stop themselves from "loving" who these reactions are set off by. You are absolutely correct, and I would have said it in almost exactly the same terms. I've said before on loveshack that, over the course of my 35 year marriage, I've had at least 3 very serious crushes on acquaintances and coworkers, all of whom my wife knows. The first one I might have given in 2, if I'd had a clue that she was "interested" in re2rn. Man, what a mess THAT would have made! She was the mother of one of my daughter's fellow girl scout troop members, my wife was troop leader, and I was on the girl scout council! She was recently divorced, very pretty, and very vulnerable. Thankfully, I believed that I could control my urges and keep them 2 myself so that nobody would know about them and they would just fade away. Thankfully, the all did fade away. But much 2 my surprise, while my W and I were talking about bumps in our relationship that led up 2 her affair, after d-day, she told me she knew about the crushes (though she assumed another one that I never had), and so did the mother of my daughter's friend form girl scouts! So, in short, yes, you're right and I couldn't control the feeling of love for these women. But I WAS able 2 control my actions, sufficiently that I never acted on them. And now, of course, after having been subjected 2 an affair in my own marriage, I'm more glad than I was then that I controlled my urges. "Unconditional love" is a myth. This forum is evidence of the truth of my statement. Is peace on Earth a myth? Possibly. It might not even be achievable by humans, and almost certainly not in our lifetimes. But is it nevertheless something 2 strive for? I think so. So it is with unconditional love. The fact, if it is an establishable fact, that most or all loveshackers can't achieve it or don't believe in it doesn't impress me. There are plenty of people in the world who do. All love has conditions, always. Then it isn't real. Ever. -ol' 2long
John Michael Kane Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Look what I am saying is that she has been sleeping with the same OM for 14 years exclusively. Cheaters sleep with anyone who pays them attention. And just because she was probably boning him for years doesn't make it legitimate in any way. Nor does it mean the OM wasn't sleeping around with others. If it is true that this guy is a slut then I would think something would have surfaced by now. It is not the same as if she was picking up a new guy every week, then I would agree the probability is there for him to contract something bad. Now you're just being plain ignorant to the facts. If lovesick has learned to live happily with his wife while not having sex and he does not care then what is the difference to him? He desperately wants to stay with the women he loves. If he makes her give up her boyfriend, she will probably leave him. What does he have if this happens? Everyone is telling him to divorce her but clearly he does not want to do this, it simply is not an option for him if he wants to spend the rest of his life with her. Also, if he is active with his wife in bed and knows she is sleeping with another man at the same time it tells me that her activities are not very upsetting to him? So in this instance he is ok with sharing his wife physically to make her happy but he is only actually concerned about her falling in love with OM and leaving him. Mindless rambling. As I said earlier if he wants to stay with her he will have to accept the fact that she will be sleeping with the OM. Nah, he doesn't have to put up with it. Either option is not acceptable to lovesick, therefore he has no choice but to accept it and hope some day she will move past OM. No he always has a choice just like his crazy wife did before she cheated. He will never have to stay with that tramp if he decides not to.
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