one goal Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 I would pay the full meal for the first few dates. Also how much should you spend on a girl on the first date?
J200 Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 Tip: Grab a butter knife, place its tip under the edge of the lid, then slowly wiggle the knife. You'll then often(but not always) hear a popping sound due to the pressure in the jar equalizing with the pressure outside of the jar. After that, opening the the jar hardly takes any force. If that fails, but you're really committed to opening said jar, then drill a tiny hole in the lid of the jar in order to equalize pressure. Voila. Not really jars, I dunno why I wrote that; more like apple juice bottles or juice bottles. The bottles are plastic and butter knife won't fit under. I don't know how to drill a hole; I don't have a drill either.
musemaj11 Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 I don't know many women who never chip in on dates. (I'm not sure I know any off the top of my head, but I won't make a 100% definitive statement as it's late and my brain is not at peak.) I do know some who'd be offended if asked to pay their half on a 1st date, but it's not really socially acceptable for a fellow to expect that here, so I get it. It's like how showing my shoulders in Korea is semi-scandalous, but a mini skirt is totally acceptable. Cultures just are how they are, and I don't personally rage against them, unless they're impeding people's civil rights (I can legally wear a tank top in Korea, and old ladies can legally yell at me for it; you can legally expect a gal to go dutch on a 1st date in the American South if you like, but she can legally be baffled and a bit off-put by it if she likes; thus, no civil rights impeded). I guess I've just lived enough places where I take the social norms as a given, do what I want within or outside of them, and accept the consequences of my actions, good or bad. I agree with you on the culture part. Unfortunately its not easy to move to another country where the culture is more suitable for us. Its not like I wanna live in holland and I can go there by tomorrow. American culture favors the women too much. It sucks.
J200 Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 I forgot to add this but if the guy gets me food on the way over that I always pay back! My ex would always go and buy me In N Out when I was hungry (with my money).
musemaj11 Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 Also paying depends on how I like a woman. If I want to seriously date her then I have already decided she is worth chivalrous treatment and I will do so but if I just want to mess around with her she can pay her own way. I rarely ever paid for casual sex in my life and I don't plan on doing so. You are doing it wrong. You are basically rewarding the gold digger and punishing the generous girl. I take advantage of cheap girls who expect me to pay while I treasure women who are generous to me and repay her generosity. For me personally, splitting a bill in half has nothing to do with feminism. I don't like it when anyone spends money on me (unless it is my birthday), I will pay half even if I am out with my girlfriends. But you said in the beginning that it does have to do with feminism. Honestly I have my doubt about you. I have this feeling that you may be a guy pretending to be a woman. I mean a real woman would love a norm that subjects men to pay for women just like average men would love a norm that subjects women to do all the housework at home. You are not going to hear men fighting for the right to do house chores. This is too good to be true.
denise_xo Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 Women earn less because they pick jobs that pay less. Women want to be paid the same for working easier job. That's just bull****. This doesn't apply at all the European context. Sectors that are female dominated are also frequently at lower pay levels than male dominated job sectors, even though they require the same level of education and are also often both physically and mentally demanding. From what Star Gazer, who used to represent employers in such cases, has said in other threads, women are also not payed equally for the same job in the US.
J200 Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 (edited) Honestly I have my doubt about you. I have this feeling that you may be a guy pretending to be a woman. I mean a real woman would love a norm that subjects men to pay for women just like average men would love a norm that subjects women to do all the housework at home. You are not going to hear men fighting for the right to do house chores. This is too good to be true. Men doing housework is not a sign of power whereas a woman paying is a sign of power; economic power. I like being the boss and dominating the man; being the one in CONTROL. Having the ability to pay for yourself is that power. What is more "power", having a guy drive you around in an exotic car and being his date or having the power to drive your own Ferrari? The latter of course. Trust me, I'm not doing men any favors. I don't like a lot of men. I like power and money. lol I like money because it's a good way of telling the guy that I can do without them; they are not needed. You've got me all twisted... I'm not doing it to be kind to men; it's to let men know that I am BETTER than them. I am competitive and I like to win. Edited April 24, 2011 by J200
Eve Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 (edited) I never said anything about abusing women. I treat people in general the way they treat me man or woman. I won't go all out for somebody who treats me like I am chopped liver. I also see no need to woo a woman who just wants casual sex. Let's cut to the chase and do it. I am honest up front when I tell a woman this as well. Ok. I felt uneasy with your comments because to me no matter what I would think of maintaining my dignity. My comment to you was a combined response to anger also expressed in the 'why would a man marry thread'. You do come across strongly as someone who could flip big time one of these days. Overall, I find the grading of women as being worthy or unworthy of nice treatment hard to swallow. I know it goes on and I know I am not graded as being a low end woman but it just gets under my skin somewhat to think of men treating women like that. This is something I have raised my step son to be against and from this he has thus managed to NOT add to the already dysfunctional make up of psycho women and maintain his dignity. Result - he has THE most genuine girlfriend. Also, I am not familiar with the ritual of casual sex and see it as self abusive, even if someone is up for it, so once again I would side with the notion of not participating. I suppose this is also a very traditional view. Anyhow, this thread is not about feminism, I would say it is partly about women trying to avoid being groomed into a leser role, within a market of seemingly unstable people. Unfortunately, for some here they are the ones who now want to do lead on this dynamic from the onset. Shame, I was foolishly looking to maybe have a refresher session on some philosphy or another from feminist writings. Oh well, I suppose this is something I will never encounter. The people who I have been out with were known to me before any formal dinner date and I am ok with allowing a man to be a man around me and begin what I see to be a template for a relationship where he is able to care for my needs and look out for and look after me. My female version of this is to be someone who is both trustworthy and secure in my own femininity. So, I suppose my era was one where the man was expected to pay on dates. For some this was a template for future financial abuse, for others nothing of the sort happened, it was taken as a ritual reserved for those who wanted to spend time with someone they could very well imagine themselves having a relationship with. ... but gosh, what about a bit of romance people? I would have liked to have heard from those who do pay framed within a bit of romance at least, whether they are male or female. Wasn't feeling any of that! Nah, I am not easily deceived. I just see key people here as being used up/having nothing to give in the first instance. Empty vessels, unable to trust, give or receive. Its all so self aborbed and money centred that really it doesn't really even matter. Dating isn't their problem, there is something more damaged driving their actions. I can see why so many get stuck within the FWB arena. Take care, Eve x Edited April 24, 2011 by Eve
EasyHeart Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 This was what I was talking about. This guy sees paying as power control. But then again Im sure this is a generational thing. The men of old were much more sensitive about holding all the power. But then again, the women of old also didnt see themselves as equal to men either. Or MAYBE he's just really, really funny, dumbass. I was waiting for some one to make these points - I loved this post and agree with it wholeheartedly. BTW, for those who are curious, that stat, 25% is pretty accurate, women in North America still make 79 cents to the dollar for equal work. just saying. Maybe that's the real battle for feminists to focus on.That's a politically-contrived statistic. When adjusted for age, education and occupation, women actually make a little more than men. For me personally, splitting a bill in half has nothing to do with feminism. I don't like it when anyone spends money on me (unless it is my birthday), I will pay half even if I am out with my girlfriends. I think younger men are more progressive when it comes to stuff like this; and anway I wouldn't want to be with a man who felt more masculine just because he payed the bill.I think that's just really weird. I most commonly socialize with my friends by going out to lunch, and we typically alternate picking up the check. It's not about power, it's about convenience. Usually, one of us will reach for the check and say, "I think it's my turn". Rarely can we actually remember, but it works out roughly even, I think. And it's definitely not generational. When I was in school 30 years ago, it was the same thing: sometimes I paid, sometimes she paid. It was never a big deal as to who paid (and I was VERY poor back then!!! ) The biggest difference is that we did inexpensive stuff -- dollar movies, free concerts, cheap pizza -- but we just took turns paying or whomever happened to have money that day (whether it was her or me) anted up some cash. I honestly can't remember a single time when there was any stress or drama about "who's going to pay". I DO remember lots of times my GF and and I were sitting around trying to think of what we could do with the little money we had! But never anything about who "should" pay for what.
9Lives Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 This was what I was talking about. This guy sees paying as power control. But then again Im sure this is a generational thing. The men of old were much more sensitive about holding all the power. But then again, the women of old also didnt see themselves as equal to men either. The younger people are more open to the concept of sharing expense while the older people are more bent on traditional approach to paying. Seriously, which part of the country do you hail from? You seem to be so backward thinking in all your posts. Here in California women hold the door for everyone men or women.Do you understand that equal opportunity=equal responsibility? If you want to make as much as me than you better pay as much as me. DUH! Because our grandparents accepted their traditional roles without questions. If being treated as less than a man wasnt so bad, then why did women fight for equality? My grandma wouldnt object if I askd her if she is less than her husband. She wouldnt dare to question a single word that my grandpa said for he was the man and he had all the say. Dont get mad because of the way my life has played out. That is not called for. I have not had to do that and Im sorry that you dont like it. Its not a big deal....it reality. I am from NY and and live in Texas. Every person doesnt do the same thing. Just because I dont open doors for men...its just life. Nothing wrong with that.
Jazzari Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 Men doing housework is not a sign of power whereas a woman paying is a sign of power; economic power. I like being the boss and dominating the man; being the one in CONTROL. Having the ability to pay for yourself is that power. What is more "power", having a guy drive you around in an exotic car and being his date or having the power to drive your own Ferrari? The latter of course. Trust me, I'm not doing men any favors. I don't like a lot of men. I like power and money. lol I like money because it's a good way of telling the guy that I can do without them; they are not needed. You've got me all twisted... I'm not doing it to be kind to men; it's to let men know that I am BETTER than them. I am competitive and I like to win.Does love fit in your relationships anywhere? Or is it all money and power?
zengirl Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 I think that's just really weird. I most commonly socialize with my friends by going out to lunch, and we typically alternate picking up the check. It's not about power, it's about convenience. Usually, one of us will reach for the check and say, "I think it's my turn". Rarely can we actually remember, but it works out roughly even, I think. And it's definitely not generational. When I was in school 30 years ago, it was the same thing: sometimes I paid, sometimes she paid. It was never a big deal as to who paid (and I was VERY poor back then!!! ) The biggest difference is that we did inexpensive stuff -- dollar movies, free concerts, cheap pizza -- but we just took turns paying or whomever happened to have money that day (whether it was her or me) anted up some cash. I honestly can't remember a single time when there was any stress or drama about "who's going to pay". I DO remember lots of times my GF and and I were sitting around trying to think of what we could do with the little money we had! But never anything about who "should" pay for what. Yes, this has been roughly my experience, with friends and dating as well. And I'm from a different generation than you, it seems, so I agree that it's not generational. I cannot believe how strongly people attach money to power in their relationships with people. I mean, just because I bought someone a sandwich doesn't mean I ever thought I had power over them. Geez.
Recommended Posts