Dating - who should pay the bill?

[627]

If I ask a girl out, then I feel obligated to pay. It wouldn't be right to invite someone somewhere and expect them to pay. Whether they accept the notion or not is something else.

 

 

 

 

 

Those types of women are low quality and they generally don't have healthy relationships.

 

 

 

 

 

It's admirable and I'll certainly respect her more than someone that fits under #1.

 

 

 

 

 

Could be a bunch of reasons. Upbringing, gold digger, cheap.

 

I totaly agree with what he said

 

I always pay, I love it when a woman argues me for an hour to pay her part at least, despite that I insist and pay, it really means something

I dislike women who just sit there idly as I take the bill and look at it and pay, as if I have to pay, I never call text nor reply to these women again (yes it is that important)

 

not all women believe in that ritual or any other, a girl yesterday even didn't like it when I opened my car door for her and she argued me about feminism and autonomy and somethign like that... whatever

 

anyway as long as guys are the ones asking out, we should pay, and we should open the door. and if feminists don't like the system, we'd love to be called and asked out by a woman (as if that day will ever come) and we'll split the bill

[Sarabina]

people can believe whatever they want, and I realize that some men and women are traditional. But I just wish this was not the social norm - I like people who break the social norms.

 

Like I said I don't think one person should do all the paying, no matter what - for me personally, it should always be 50/50.

 

And I hold the door open for everyone - it isn't just a mans responsibilty, everyone should do that.

 

Anyway, I just wish more men would like it when a women pays half.

[627]

people can believe whatever they want, and I realize that some men and women are traditional. But I just wish this was not the social norm - I like people who break the social norms.

 

Like I said I don't think one person should do all the paying, no matter what - for me personally, it should always be 50/50.

 

And I hold the door open for everyone - it isn't just a mans responsibilty, everyone should do that.

 

Anyway, I just wish more men would like it when a women pays half.

 

but we do the asking out, it doesn't seem logical to split...

 

here's an example, what if I were rich and I was datign someone with a low income, and I ask her out to this lavishing restaurant and the bill comes 500$, she offers to split, I have no idea what her income is, and I had chosen the place(cause I asked her out) how is it fair to let her split?

 

a guy does the asking out and generaly we pick the place with accordance to our budget too...

[Woggle]

In theory I have no issue paying because despite my views I actually like being a gentlemen but it irks me when some women are only willing to embrace the traditional aspects that work in their favor. They want to be treated like a woman but are never willing to treat a man like a man. Treat me like a man and I will treat you like a woman. The respect and chivalry thing goes both ways.

 

Also paying depends on how I like a woman. If I want to seriously date her then I have already decided she is worth chivalrous treatment and I will do so but if I just want to mess around with her she can pay her own way. I rarely ever paid for casual sex in my life and I don't plan on doing so.

[EasyHeart]

I had never really thought about the dating ritual and feminism being related as such. I see feminism more as a concept towards ensuring the rights of women more on a global scale rather than who pays at dinner. You know, reproductive rights, equal pay etc..

Most sane people, male and female, think the same way as you do.

 

Dating is tough enough without trying to work out political issues inside the microcosm of your relationship. If a woman signals to me during a date that she is insecure in her femininity or that she hates men, it is a big red flag for me. In fact, it's more like a red flag, a blaring horn, fireworks, and a big sign that says, "RUN AWAY!!!". Insisting that she must pay for some or all of a date or getting angry because I open a door for her are examples, and I simply take those sorts of things for what they are: red flags that I could never have a successful relationship with this woman.

 

Honestly, this has never been an issue for me. I can only think of a few dates where a woman "insisted" on paying half of the bill. None of them turned into second dates, but I'd pretty much decided that by the time the bill came, and I just assumed she had as well. For the most part, I've found that women appreciate a man with good manners and don't have any problem with me picking up the tab. Or with sharing the tab. It's simply never an issue. We just talk about it and decide who will pay for what.

 

But then again, neither of us are trying to drive a political agenda through our dates.

[zengirl]

Most sane people, male and female, think the same way as you do.

 

Dating is tough enough without trying to work out political issues inside the microcosm of your relationship. If a woman signals to me during a date that she is insecure in her femininity or that she hates men, it is a big red flag for me. In fact, it's more like a red flag, a blaring horn, fireworks, and a big sign that says, "RUN AWAY!!!". Insisting that she must pay for some or all of a date or getting angry because I open a door for her are examples, and I simply take those sorts of things for what they are: red flags that I could never have a successful relationship with this woman.

 

Honestly, this has never been an issue for me. I can only think of a few dates where a woman "insisted" on paying half of the bill. None of them turned into second dates, but I'd pretty much decided that by the time the bill came, and I just assumed she had as well. For the most part, I've found that women appreciate a man with good manners and don't have any problem with me picking up the tab. Or with sharing the tab. It's simply never an issue. We just talk about it and decide who will pay for what.

 

But then again, neither of us are trying to drive a political agenda through our dates.

 

Yes, this has been my experience as well, from the other side, and the insisting ones probably had decided no 2nd date and wanted to be polite in their own way, with you.

 

This really doesn't create some sort of issue in dating. At least never has for me.

[Eve]

In theory I have no issue paying because despite my views I actually like being a gentlemen but it irks me when some women are only willing to embrace the traditional aspects that work in their favor. They want to be treated like a woman but are never willing to treat a man like a man. Treat me like a man and I will treat you like a woman. The respect and chivalry thing goes both ways.

 

Also paying depends on how I like a woman. If I want to seriously date her then I have already decided she is worth chivalrous treatment and I will do so but if I just want to mess around with her she can pay her own way. I rarely ever paid for casual sex in my life and I don't plan on doing so.

 

This is unacceptable.

 

To be a man is to always behave as a respectful man.

 

Your comments highlight only that you will abuse a woman if you do not think her worthy of whatever your value system is.

 

Classic abuser talk.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[9Lives]

people can believe whatever they want, and I realize that some men and women are traditional. But I just wish this was not the social norm - I like people who break the social norms.

 

Like I said I don't think one person should do all the paying, no matter what - for me personally, it should always be 50/50.

 

And I hold the door open for everyone - it isn't just a mans responsibilty, everyone should do that.

 

Anyway, I just wish more men would like it when a women pays half.

 

I understand what you saying and I respect what you are saying. EVERY man that I have been with has paid for mostly every date. I will pay here and there and do other things for him. I have not had a problem with that.

 

As far as opening doors for a man??? PLEASE...aint no way in hell!!!!

 

but I realize people are different and to each his own.

[Woggle]

This is unacceptable.

 

To be a man is to always behave as a respectful man.

 

Your comments highlight only that you will abuse a woman if you do not think her worthy of whatever your value system is.

 

Classic abuser talk.

 

Take care,

Eve x

 

I never said anything about abusing women. I treat people in general the way they treat me man or woman. I won't go all out for somebody who treats me like I am chopped liver.

 

I also see no need to woo a woman who just wants casual sex. Let's cut to the chase and do it. I am honest up front when I tell a woman this as well.

[zengirl]

I never said anything about abusing women. I treat people in general the way they treat me man or woman. I won't go all out for somebody who treats me like I am chopped liver.

 

I also see no need to woo a woman who just wants casual sex. Let's cut to the chase and do it. I am honest up front when I tell a woman this as well.

 

I actually think it's way more dishonest to woo a woman, take her out, pretend you're serious, just for sex. Casual sex relationships should be mutual and casual; there's no reason for a man to rely on social norms reserved for relationships. I don't see your POV as "abusive" at all. Makes sense to me.

 

Picking up a check sends mixed messages if you're just looking for casual sex.

[musemaj11]

As a man, I always pay on dates because I don't want women to "expect" anything from me if they pay the bill.

 

I am NOT a piece of meat that a woman can purchase.

This was what I was talking about.

 

This guy sees paying as power control.

 

But then again Im sure this is a generational thing. The men of old were much more sensitive about holding all the power. But then again, the women of old also didnt see themselves as equal to men either.

 

The younger people are more open to the concept of sharing expense while the older people are more bent on traditional approach to paying.

 

I understand what you saying and I respect what you are saying. EVERY man that I have been with has paid for mostly every date. I will pay here and there and do other things for him. I have not had a problem with that.

 

As far as opening doors for a man??? PLEASE...aint no way in hell!!!!

 

but I realize people are different and to each his own.

Seriously, which part of the country do you hail from?

 

You seem to be so backward thinking in all your posts.

 

Here in California women hold the door for everyone men or women.

 

I had never really thought about the dating ritual and feminism being related as such. I see feminism more as a concept towards ensuring the rights of women more on a global scale rather than who pays at dinner. You know, reproductive rights, equal pay etc.. H'm.. Maybe I have always taken it literally when someone has said, 'I would love to take you out..'

Do you understand that equal opportunity=equal responsibility?

 

If you want to make as much as me than you better pay as much as me. DUH!

 

so it goes without saying you just want a fixed law between you and the guy, you dont want to communicate anymore..and if old fashioned is "so bad" then how come our grandparents and even parents have better relationships than us new generation folks with all our new modern ways?

Because our grandparents accepted their traditional roles without questions.

 

If being treated as less than a man wasnt so bad, then why did women fight for equality? My grandma wouldnt object if I askd her if she is less than her husband. She wouldnt dare to question a single word that my grandpa said for he was the man and he had all the say.

Edited April 23, 2011 by musemaj11

[zengirl]

Re: Equal pay as it relates to dating. . .

 

I think this is a bit silly to connect. Two individuals are not likely to have the SAME salary on a date. Just because men and women should be able to earn equal pay for equal work doesn't mean it's going to shake out that way on every date.

 

And, honestly, I've never known a man who made less than his girlfriend and still paid the lion's share; I suppose it's happened, but I expect it's rare. Generally when a man pays more, I imagine he earns more. Which is not unlikely to happen most of the time, as the average man still makes 25% more in the U.S. than the average woman.

 

As far as the tradition goes of paying on first dates, I don't really see why anyone would connect that to a broader social spectrum. For men: If you don't feel comforted by the social norm and instead are hindered by it, don't want to pick up the bill on a first date, don't offer to do so (ask the waiter for separate checks; even if the woman doesn't like it, she'll pay her half, and if that's important to either of you, you weren't compatible -- the end). For women: if you don't like the social norm, insist on paying whatever amount you like (full or half). If it's important to you and makes the man uncomfortable, you weren't compatible - the end.

 

People make mountains out of molehills over this issue. I do think how people react to social norms is a part of what determines compatibility.

[miss_28]

Re: Equal pay as it relates to dating. . .

 

... Which is not unlikely to happen most of the time, as the average man still makes 25% more in the U.S. than the average woman.

 

As far as the tradition goes of paying on first dates, I don't really see why anyone would connect that to a broader social spectrum. For men: If you don't feel comforted by the social norm and instead are hindered by it, don't want to pick up the bill on a first date, don't offer to do so (ask the waiter for separate checks; even if the woman doesn't like it, she'll pay her half, and if that's important to either of you, you weren't compatible -- the end). For women: if you don't like the social norm, insist on paying whatever amount you like (full or half). If it's important to you and makes the man uncomfortable, you weren't compatible - the end.

 

I was waiting for some one to make these points - I loved this post and agree with it wholeheartedly. BTW, for those who are curious, that stat, 25% is pretty accurate, women in North America still make 79 cents to the dollar for equal work. just saying. Maybe that's the real battle for feminists to focus on.

[musemaj11]

I was waiting for some one to make these points - I loved this post and agree with it wholeheartedly. BTW, for those who are curious, that stat, 25% is pretty accurate, women in North America still make 79 cents to the dollar for equal work. just saying. Maybe that's the real battle for feminists to focus on.

Lol, not even all men are paid equally.

 

Statistically, white men outearn non-white men. Women earn less because they pick jobs that pay less. Women want to be paid the same for working easier job.

[Sarabina]

For me personally, splitting a bill in half has nothing to do with feminism. I don't like it when anyone spends money on me (unless it is my birthday), I will pay half even if I am out with my girlfriends.

 

I think younger men are more progressive when it comes to stuff like this; and anway I wouldn't want to be with a man who felt more masculine just because he payed the bill.

[BiscuitXOXO]

Women earn less because they pick jobs that pay less. Women want to be paid the same for working easier job.

But even when a woman has an equal job, they:

 

women in North America still make 79 cents to the dollar for equal work.

[J200]

But even when a woman has an equal job, they:

 

What other women make don't concern me; I could care less. It doesn't affect me in any way. All I know and care about is that I've made more than any man I've ever dated and I earn more than a lot men.

[Jazzari]

I think younger men are more progressive when it comes to stuff like this; and anway I wouldn't want to be with a man who felt more masculine just because he payed the bill.

Do you object to men feeling masculine entirely or do you just object to the things that make them feel that way?

[J200]

Do you object to men feeling masculine entirely or do you just object to the things that make them feel that way?

 

I don't object men feeling masculine; that's fine. Just as long as they let me pay and know that I am their financial equal. I'm not a weak frail woman who needs a free meal. I object if it leads to me not being able to pay.

[Jazzari]

I don't object men feeling masculine; that's fine. Just as long as they let me pay and know that I am their financial equal. I'm not a weak frail woman who needs a free meal. I object if it leads to me not being able to pay.

Can he do other things for you? Open doors, buy flowers or gifts, send cards, etc? How about fixing your car or other "manly" chores?

 

I'm just trying to get an idea of what you consider acceptable ways for men to show they care about you.

[zengirl]

Lol, not even all men are paid equally.

 

Statistically, white men outearn non-white men. Women earn less because they pick jobs that pay less. Women want to be paid the same for working easier job.

 

This is veering off-topic, but I take issue with the word "easier" here. Jobs are not paid by how easy or difficult they are, or even how important they are.

 

Most people get paid more than I currently do (and in my other field, I certainly used to). Few people could do my job as well as I do, and they certainly wouldn't find it easy. Most people would quit after a week. Teachers make crap. (I'm technically a reading coach, so my job IS a bit easier at times, but it's also higher stress at other times, because test scores matter even more for what I do than for classroom teachers and all my kids are struggling readers.) And it's got nothing to do with it being a cakewalk of a job.

 

Anyway, rant over, but the point is not WHY behind the statistics. I don't think teachers make crap because women happen to choose the profession more (I do think women choose it more than men in part because teachers make crap, and men care more about earning power because of how social structure in this nation happens to work). But if women earn less on average, it's more likely that the man in a relationship will earn more --- on average. Not all the time, of course. If a woman earns more and her BF always pays, I agree: This is silly. But if there is a disparity of income, the person who makes less will likely naturally pay less. Seems sensible to me, from either side (and I've been on both sides).

[musemaj11]

Re: Equal pay as it relates to dating. . .

 

I think this is a bit silly to connect. Two individuals are not likely to have the SAME salary on a date. Just because men and women should be able to earn equal pay for equal work doesn't mean it's going to shake out that way on every date.

 

And, honestly, I've never known a man who made less than his girlfriend and still paid the lion's share; I suppose it's happened, but I expect it's rare. Generally when a man pays more, I imagine he earns more. Which is not unlikely to happen most of the time, as the average man still makes 25% more in the U.S. than the average woman.

 

As far as the tradition goes of paying on first dates, I don't really see why anyone would connect that to a broader social spectrum. For men: If you don't feel comforted by the social norm and instead are hindered by it, don't want to pick up the bill on a first date, don't offer to do so (ask the waiter for separate checks; even if the woman doesn't like it, she'll pay her half, and if that's important to either of you, you weren't compatible -- the end). For women: if you don't like the social norm, insist on paying whatever amount you like (full or half). If it's important to you and makes the man uncomfortable, you weren't compatible - the end.

 

People make mountains out of molehills over this issue. I do think how people react to social norms is a part of what determines compatibility.

Except most women aren't arguing who should pay more. They are arguing whether they should even pay at all. For many women it seems to be a matter of pride if they don't need to pay. These women only think about themselves. They are like guys who take pride in having sex with a lot of women. Disgusting creatures.

[zengirl]

Except most women aren't arguing who should pay more. They are arguing whether they should even pay at all. For many women it seems to be a matter of pride if they don't need to pay. These women only think about themselves. They are like guys who take pride in having sex with a lot of women. Disgusting creatures.

 

I don't know many women who never chip in on dates. (I'm not sure I know any off the top of my head, but I won't make a 100% definitive statement as it's late and my brain is not at peak.)

 

I do know some who'd be offended if asked to pay their half on a 1st date, but it's not really socially acceptable for a fellow to expect that here, so I get it. It's like how showing my shoulders in Korea is semi-scandalous, but a mini skirt is totally acceptable. Cultures just are how they are, and I don't personally rage against them, unless they're impeding people's civil rights (I can legally wear a tank top in Korea, and old ladies can legally yell at me for it; you can legally expect a gal to go dutch on a 1st date in the American South if you like, but she can legally be baffled and a bit off-put by it if she likes; thus, no civil rights impeded). I guess I've just lived enough places where I take the social norms as a given, do what I want within or outside of them, and accept the consequences of my actions, good or bad.

[J200]

Can he do other things for you? Open doors, buy flowers or gifts, send cards, etc? How about fixing your car or other "manly" chores?

 

I'm just trying to get an idea of what you consider acceptable ways for men to show they care about you.

 

I'm not a really romantic person; I always gag during romantic movies... I don't care for V day, flowers or cards etc. I find it lame. Fixing the car for me is fine; however I drive a luxury German car and usually only the dealer or an independent mechanic who specializes in the brand can fix it.

 

I don't mind if a guy opens the door for me but I have held the door for a guy before too; not a date but a co-worker because it's the polite thing to do.

 

I am not into a guy doing chivalrous type stuff like holding my seat or sending flowers.

 

I would like a guy to do PRACTICAL things like drive me to the airport if I need a ride or if he's on the road getting me a hamburger because I am hungry and bringing it to me if he's on the way over (that's probably my favorite thing for a guy to do; buy me some In N Out burger on the way over). Helping me clean up and organize is nice too because I'm unorganized and don't know how to clean up.... Help me find my keys when they are lost because I can never find it. Opening jars...

[Nexus One]

Opening jars...

 

Tip: Grab a butter knife, place its tip under the edge of the lid, then slowly wiggle the knife. You'll then often(but not always) hear a popping sound due to the pressure in the jar equalizing with the pressure outside of the jar. After that, opening the the jar hardly takes any force.

 

If that fails, but you're really committed to opening said jar, then drill a tiny hole in the lid of the jar in order to equalize pressure.

 

Voila.